English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

RegDwigнt

00:00

@GeorgeCapote I think you're really missing the point here. But it's nice to see you miss it.

tchrist

He is confusing Brazilian for Portuguese, I keep tell yuz.

George Capote

speak for yourself. my uncle is Portugese and I'm from Chicago, where there are more Poles than in Warsaw.

tchrist

And you are not.

George Capote

but I hear them both almost daily when I'm back home.

RegDwigнt

QED.

George Capote

00:00

one sounds like angels, the other like a Polish guy.

actually, good point @RegDwigнt

tchrist

Do they have angels in Polakia?

RegDwigнt

Angielky.

George Capote

I think they have some lumber.

and tools.

they all build things for a living.

tchrist

What city in Portugal is your agèd uncle from?

George Capote

Lisaboaaoo

uncle being the guy my aunt married. not a sibling of a parent.

tchrist

00:02

Leezhboacnzhtrktr

RegDwigнt

So anyway. Before random passersby start missing points, too: the idea is that everything foreign sounds foreign by definition. Once you immerse yourself in a language, everything starts sounding lovely.

Which is why a true polyglot will never consider any language hideous. Except, of course, Romanian.

tchrist

The demonym is Lisboeta.

George Capote

in Romanian it's Lisabona.

tchrist

That’s immaterial.

George Capote

not the demonym. just the name of the place.

RegDwigнt

00:04

Who is Lisa and do you have a picture?

George Capote

you're immaterial.

tchrist

I need an aconda.

George Capote

and, I consider all slavic languages hideous.

RegDwigнt

I need a norange.

George Capote

and I am a true polyglot. but one who hates the slavic languages.

because they are hideous.

tchrist

00:04

What do you expect for stinky slaves captured in the heart of the Congo?

George Capote

what's a norange?

RegDwigнt

It's a fruit.

tchrist

Children.

George Capote

I need some sporange.

tchrist

This is like taking candy from.

George Capote

00:05

from whom?

RegDwigнt

@GeorgeCapote You should go read some Lermontov or Yesenin, or even just Pushkin, then you'll never stop weeping at your own ignorance. Alas.

For that matter, you can start with Kharms.

tchrist

se pregunta, ¿qué sera un naranjo?

RegDwigнt

Es una fábrica de coches.

tchrist

De cockcrochets serán.

RegDwigнt

Y no puede caminar por causa de sus bigotes.

tchrist

00:07

Y su falta de maría.

O falda. Nunca me lo acuerdo.

George Capote

here's what I see: @GeorgeCapote You should go read some Yuri Gagarin or Khruschev, or even Stalin, then you'll never stop paşol na turbinca

RegDwigнt

Ysus y María!

George Capote

Russians are awful.

RegDwigнt

Not sure why you dis poor Gagarin like that.

Even Martha never did that.

tchrist

Santa María que viene en faldas con fajitas vaginescas.

RegDwigнt

00:08

And her family was like personally maltreated by the Soviets.

George Capote

actually, sorry, I'm just playing about Gagarin.

RegDwigнt

Khrushchev was a cool guy, too.

George Capote

first Russian name I could think of.

RegDwigнt

Now Stalin you can dis to your heart's content.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Sulu was better.

George Capote

00:09

and this Putin guy is a mentalist.

RegDwigнt

@GeorgeCapote what, not even Putin or Lenin?

George Capote

may be more of a lunatic than tchrist here.

RegDwigнt

He's not a lunatic, it's just the praerie dogs.

And with Putin it's friggin praerie bears, so what do you expect.

tchrist

One of the nicest little townlets along the mighty Miss is Prairie du Chien.

George Capote

I'd expect someone in that country of lunatics to just strangle him or something.

tchrist

00:11

Hint: no hounds were harmed in the building of this burg.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist Prairie du quien?

tchrist

@GeorgeCapote He’s too macho for his pants.

Wait, I meant shirt.

Not skirt.

RegDwigнt

@GeorgeCapote how so? All the people capable and willing of that have long fled.

George Capote

I bet he secretly wears women's underwear. that nutcase.

RegDwigнt

Did you expect Um-err-I-can!s to strangle Dubya, too?

George Capote

00:12

or he's killed them all!

RegDwigнt

Every country has the government it deserves.

tchrist

@GeorgeCapote You make that sound like it’s a bad thing.

RegDwigнt

Yeah that too.

George Capote

do the other countries deserve it?

what if he shoots my plane down next?

tchrist

Some of my best friends wear women’s underwear.

George Capote

00:13

are they women?

who am I kidding

your friends are weirdos.

RegDwigнt

Well, first off, he didn't shoot off any planes.

So take a deep breath.

tchrist

So far as I am aware, probably.

George Capote

takes a deep breath

RegDwigнt

This chat is rapidly deteriorating.

George Capote

sorry.

RegDwigнt

00:13

You don't need to bring up Putin.

We were talking language.

Putin did not invent Russian, and indeed hasn't even managed to patent it.

Shit, now I'm giving him ideas.

tchrist

Do your people eat tapioca pudding?

RegDwigнt

Whose now?

George Capote

haha. it's okay.

RegDwigнt

Tapioca

Tapioca ist u. a. Eine Bibliothek für VoIP-Telefonie Tapioca (Software) Eine andere Schreibweise für die Stärkeart Tapioka…

George Capote

I'm actually just sobbing quietly. I had to go and watch Mufasa's death scene for some reason.

RegDwigнt

00:15

I don't think I ever eated eine Bibliothek. For VoIP or otherwise.

George Capote

heeeeeey...

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Youse peoples.

George Capote

that's not what Tapioca isch…

RegDwigнt

I wouldn't know where to get tapioca, for starters. So that places me.

tchrist

Either the Russo-Germans or worse weizer.

RegDwigнt

00:16

@GeorgeCapote oh, switching to Swabian, I see.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt I get mine from a box from the grocery store.

RegDwigнt

resists pun on mine and maniok.

tchrist

⅓ cup white sugar, 3 tablespoons tapioca, 2¾ cups milk, 1 whole egg beaten not stirred, 1 teaspoon of vanilla.

Now, why do I remember this was a recipe that demanded one separate the egg? Hm.

It was the first thing I ever cooked as a lad.

RegDwigнt

@tchrist actually I bet they have said boxes in my grocery store, too. They have all kinds of weirdo stuff. Like, even coconut milk. And soy milk. And almond milk.

tchrist

Ahah!

Skip the soy milk.

RegDwigнt

00:20

And whatchacall it, Hafermilch.

tchrist

It tastes funny.

The vanilla rice milk is ok though.

RegDwigнt

Oat milk.

@tchrist too late. Been drinking for a long time.

tchrist

Ahah, I found another recipe that demands the separation of the egg.

thought so.

RegDwigнt

Those are literally a dime a dozen.

And we are talking kopeks, not pences.

tchrist

The most important element is the one with the most flavors.

George Capote

00:21

I want müesli.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Čapek?

RegDwigнt

amazon.de/K%C3%B6lln-M%C3%BCsli-Schoko-1er-Pack/dp/B003UCXUEI/…

Bitteschön.

But I must be going. I didn't realize how late it was.

tchrist

@GeorgeCapote That’s a queer way to spell granola.

RegDwigнt

Even the dog is asleep!

tchrist

No, he’s hunting.

RegDwigнt

00:22

Whatever happened to him anyway?

Hunting who? Praerie hounds?

tchrist

He is weeping over his lost prairie puppies.

RegDwigнt

Yo veo.

George Capote

hunting whom

tchrist

Déjà dit.

George Capote

akkusativ

RegDwigнt

00:24

No such thing in English.

Who you gonna hunt? Ghostbusters!

tchrist

Do not cross the streams, nor cricks.

George Capote

sure there is. at least whom.

tchrist

Nope.

RegDwigнt

Stuff and nonsense.

tchrist

Not accusative.

At all.

George Capote

00:24

if you hunt something, something is certainly accusative

tchrist

Give him the ball. Give whom the ball?

RegDwigнt

What, you accuse it before killing it? Of what?

tchrist

@GeorgeCapote No, it isn’t. Whose lies have they been lying you?

George Capote

give the ball to him. then it's dative.

give him the ball, him is also dative

tchrist

@GeorgeCapote That’s two strikes.

George Capote

00:25

am I out?

I don't know how spoarts work.

tchrist

I think so.

RegDwigнt

Children. Children. We only just determined that English had zero cases. Plus vocative. No need to quarrel.

George Capote

damn.

tchrist

You don’t seem to understand English.

George Capote

I most certainly do not.

and never will.

but do you?

tchrist

00:26

I’m trying to make an oblique reference here, but he seems too obtuse for it. I’ll need a cuter angle.

RegDwigнt

@GeorgeCapote It's okay, at least you'll have tried. English, on the other hand, will never understand us!

Anyway. Goede nacht etcpp.

George Capote

I let this chat send me os x notifications and now it makes a stupid springy sound every time someone highlights me.

RegDwigнt

Ouvert et haut !

George Capote

tschüs

tchrist

@GeorgeCapote You’ve spelt that wrongo.

George Capote

00:27

and actually, sur et haut

or dessus

tchrist

It’s tschüß.

George Capote

ouvert et haut makes no sense

not in schwyiieetzserdüüüüütsch

tchrist

@GeorgeCapote Ok, this isn’t kindergarten. It’s preschool.

George Capote

en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tschüs

or in regular German apparently.

so you enjoy that utter failure while I go make some müesli.

tchrist

@GeorgeCapote TSCHUESS and tschüß are supposed to be case-insensitive matches of each other in the German_Phonebook locale. You’ll just ruin things otherwise.

It’s a standard test.

George Capote

00:33

ah. Swiss people don't normally use the eszett. not used to it.

is there an English word for the ß

KitFox

0

A: When should you recommend deletion?

Deletion of low quality content is a sticky wicket. I'm not sure that we have any clear guidelines, but your instincts are pretty much exactly what I would recommend. If content is off-topic, spam, or offensive, you should feel free to vote to delete it. That's clearly content that we don't want...

George Capote

scharfes s

KitFox

@tchrist Did I miss anything with this answer, do you think?

George Capote

sharp-s maybe?

tchrist

‭ ß  00DF       LATIN SMALL LETTER SHARP S
        = Eszett
        * German
        * uppercase is "SS"
        * in origin a ligature of 017F and 0073
        x (greek small letter beta - 03B2)
        x (latin capital letter sharp s - 1E9E)

KitFox

00:33

@GeorgeCapote Yes.

George Capote

ah.

Cerberus

@GeorgeCapote We also say ringel-s in Dutch.

I don't know why.

George Capote

weirdos.

Cerberus

nods

George Capote

hugs you

tchrist

00:35

10

Q: During what period of history did English use “ß”, the “sharp s” ligature?

The ß glyph is a lowercase letter than represents a ligature between a long s and a round s, and is still used today in (some versions of) German. Its uppercase equivalent is two characters instead of one: SS. It was apparently also once used in just the same way English, but I cannot find just...

George Capote

what's a sticky wicket?

marvels at these funny words

KitFox

A difficult subject.

tchrist

@GeorgeCapote Ask @Matt.

KitFox

@GeorgeCapote Feel good in your mouth, don't they?

tchrist

crickets

George Capote

00:35

yeah giggles

tchrist

George Capote

I think the most I've learned on this site is that English had a lot of cool shit way back hundreds of years ago when Perl was cool and now it's just kinda lame.

tchrist

May I please flag him?

George Capote

chuckles

tchrist

Either will do.

KitFox

00:38

@tchrist Does he know?

George Capote

presses tchrist's buttons

press press press

tchrist

splooges spunkily

KitFox

Oh. Ick.

I just wanted some input on the Meta answer.

tchrist

The deletion question is very interesting.

KitFox

I agree. I'm not sure I've given it enough consideration.

tchrist

00:40

Because they gave us the Power without really giving us guidelines for its use.

KitFox

Feels like a stock answer that might require some more subtlety.

tchrist

I do know that it is there to be used.

Did you scour metameta?

In general, I believe a site works best when people use whatever powers they’ve been given. For good, of course.

George Capote

there's a metameta?

:O

tchrist

@GeorgeCapote Yes, it’s near Hobbiton.

KitFox

@tchrist No. I preferred to use the sensible approach.

George Capote

00:42

so you're saying if someone has the power to post an idiot question, they should?

tchrist

@GeorgeCapote Non sequitur.

I’m saying that if you have the ability to cast this and that kind of vote, and are not doing so, then the site misses your participation.

George Capote

non sequitur is my middle name.

KitFox

Well, if you think of anything, leave a comment. Tschüß.

tchrist

Here’s my hunch, Kit.

KitFox

Oh. waits

tchrist

00:43

I believe that the reason it was given is because to be scalable, some moderator powers should be vested in the hands of regular users.

Otherwise there is too much for the mod team to fuss with.

KitFox

Right.

tchrist

The problem is that this one is a hard one to call.

KitFox

We'd spend all day deciding to delete content.

tchrist

There are times that a very negative answer that I do not delete vote because I want it left there as a counterexample.

But truth be told, that is not very common.

@KitFox And get pissed on for unilateralness. This way it takes 3 votes.

So it feels more community-minded this way.

KitFox

@tchrist Well, that will happen anyway.

tchrist

00:45

So I have recently seen.

I haven’t checked the yoyo question today.

KitFox

Part of the issue with deleting content is that then other users who can't see deleted content will sometimes post the same content again, thinking they are being original.

tchrist

But closevotes and deletevotes fail to share certain interesting properties in ways people probably don’t know.

KitFox

That's for low quality stuff, not for spam and crap.

tchrist

Besides that delete votes do not evaporate, they are also not idempotent.

Both those are different from closevotes.

You can only closevote something once.

Even a nonmod can cast more than one delete vote on the same question.

Hence “yoyo question”.

KitFox

I didn't know they don't disappear. How is it possible to vote more than once then?

tchrist

00:48

Delete votes do not expire. Close votes can.

As for voting more than once, I’ll tell you but please don’t chastise me.

KitFox

You said a nonmod can cast more than one delete vote...

tchrist

If you vote to delete something, and it gets deleted, and then you or others vote to undelete it and it comes back, you are free to cast a second delete vote on it.

In fact, I just have done that very thing. That is why I do not wish to be chastised. :)

KitFox

I can't promise not to chastise you, you know that.

tchrist

I don’t mean in a moderator way.

I meant as being a poor sport or something.

Here, I’ll find it.

KitFox

@tchrist Why is it that I am totally disrespected as a mod right up to the point when it's convenient to throw mod abuse in my face?

tchrist

00:50

1

Q: “Recover against” vs. “recover from”

From page 53 of Frederick Schauer’s Thinking Like a Lawyer: If Judge Cardozo had said, “We hold that in all cases involving a nonbusiness consumer and a manufacturer of goods, the consumer may recover against the manufacturer for defects in manufacture. . . .” Could anyone please explai...

differences legal

I’ve delete-voted that question twice now.

KitFox

@tchrist Oh, no, I think that is by design.

tchrist

Since I have not cheated, I do not think I should be chastised.

KitFox

It's like an edit.

tchrist

I think it rather must be by design, because they would never do that by accident.

KitFox

It's interesting though. I wonder about the rationale. Maybe to help if a user goes through and vandalizes a lot of content?

tchrist

00:52

I was afraid you might tell me it wasn’t sporting of me to cast a delete vote more than once even if I am allowed to.

KitFox

I seem to be having connection issues.

tchrist

The peril of course is yo-yo wars. The moment I see that happen, I would flag it for a possible lock.

Because there would be no guarantee of progress or stability otherwise.

KitFox

Yes, that would be the solution.

tchrist

I would rather there were more distinct voters, but honestly, just about no non-mods routinely cast delete votes.

And this is because there is no queue.

I have gone through the last like 8 or 10 pages of the lowest scored close questions and delete voted them.

I did that like years ago.

KitFox

Deletion is tricky, that's why. For instance, I wouldn't delete that question above.

Even though I think it is off-topic.

tchrist

00:55

I did the thing I just mentioned because I think it makes our site look bad to have super low scoring closed questions sitting around.

George Capote

can a question be permanently on hold/closed without being deleted ever?

KitFox

Because it is close enough to offer some guidance.

George Capote

in a bad way, not for mummification I mean.

tchrist

But I am aware that this is not a universal perception.

Mahnax

Good evening.

tchrist

00:56

Certainly it would be wrong to deletevote a closed question on meta if the only reason is that it has a low score.

But on the main site, well.

@Mahnax Hi Lurker!

There are things on SO with very high double digit negative votes.

KitFox

Well, I really have to go now. Check in tomorrow. Bye!

tchrist

That nobody deletes. So they must be there for a reason. Maybe.

Bye.

DemCodeLines

Anyone here good with economics by any chance?

Cerberus

Hello.

@DemCodeLines I'm not specifically good with economics, but now I'm curious about what you want to know...

DemCodeLines

01:15

It was market demand

tchrist

@Kit I have just posted a bazillion SEE ALSO links on the when-to-delete question.

Johan Larsson

We should learn F#

tchrist

@JohanLarsson No, but G♭ might be ok. Less Microsofter and all.

Johan Larsson

01:32

I think Microsoft are less evil than Apple

Cerberus

01:58

@JohanLarsson Yeah, probably.

tchrist

02:10

@JohanLarsson Even if it were true, it would still be completely immaterial. Plus you are simply too young to remember the way they evilly cheated at the POSIX wars and how they paid off George Bush to not enforce the antitrust ruling.

DemCodeLines

Mcrosoft isn't that bad now. At least not as bad as the time period you speak of.

tchrist

But it is a hideous system.

Built out of the bones and flesh of good honest people sacrificed at the altar of Mammon.

Embrace, extend and extinguish

"Embrace, extend, and extinguish", also known as "Embrace, extend, and exterminate", is a phrase that the U.S. Department of Justice found was used internally by Microsoft to describe its strategy for entering product categories involving widely used standards, extending those standards with proprietary capabilities, and then using those differences to disadvantage its competitors. == Origin == The strategy and phrase "embrace and extend" were first described outside Microsoft in a 1996 New York Times article entitled "Tomorrow, the World Wide Web! Microsoft, the PC King, Wants to Reign Over the...

Well, screw that.

I would rather never use computers again than be forced to live under the iron boot of the Evil Empire.

Cerberus

Haha, that's nice.

tchrist

It’s an asshole company bent upon screwing you as mercilessly as possible.

If there were a real war being fought against them, I would enlist.

They are liars, thieves, and scoundrels, and I shall have nothing to do with such criminal scum.

The should have been exterminated. The George Bush payoff made me want to leave the country and the cult.

George Capote

haha!

Cerberus

02:23

I believe you.

Then again, aren't many large companies pretty evil?

Power corrupts.

George Capote

>It’s economics, kid.
It has to do with money.
Who pays for what, and how.

tchrist

I don’t want a technical spec, let alone a programming language or an operating system, which is controlled by a single company. I want international standards.

I want diversity, not monopoly. It’s the only healthy environment.

We get a million résumé proofreading requests.

0

Q: Is it correct to say “remarkable culinary skills” in a résumé?

I’m writing a résume for someone and under skills I'd like to say that they have excellent skills at baking, cooking, and other kitchen-oriented things. Not sure if I’m phrasing it right, but I want to say that they are excellent at baking and cooking with their own company.

formality style business-language noun-phrases writing-advice

What is the Correct Response to this unending onslaught?

Unclear What You’re Asking? Offtopic Proofreading? Offtopic General Reference?

Offtopic Needs More Research?

phenry had a good idea: send it to the workplace.

Cerberus

@tchrist Agreed.

@tchrist I actually like that.

That way, the asker will get what he wants, which is to ask a question without its being closed.

And the question is moved to a place that better fits the subject.

(What a ridiculous site, by the way.)

tchrist

02:43

@Cerberus True that.

Cerberus

Most people have a workplace.

tchrist

I guess they must not have a Primarily Opinion-Based close reason.

Cerberus

There is very little that is remarkable about it.

I haven't even looked at the questions, too boring.

> Colombian Student Facing A Minimum Of Four Years In Prison For Uploading An Academic Article To Scribd

> [Gomez] is being sued under a criminal law that was reformed in 2006, following the conclusion of a free trade agreement between Colombia and the United States. The new law was meant to fulfill the trade agreement's restrictive copyright standards, and it expanded criminal penalties for copyright infringement, increasing possible prison sentences and monetary fines.

So-called "free-trade agreements", like the ones under negotiation between Canada and Europe right now, or the one between Europe and America, or the one between countries around the Pacific, are all devils in disguise, these days.

tchrist

Oh?

It’s a global oligarchy.

Everything is about furthering that goal.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…