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1:32 AM
room topic changed to English Language & Usage: General discussion for English Language and Usage. I am in a party. The wine is depleted. Then some Son of God manufacture even more win. Yay. (no tags)
 
@hichris123 Hello.
Why have you changed the room topic?
 
?
 
Please don't get into the discussion.
 
Why have you changed it?
 
1:40 AM
@Cerberus They’re fighting, and phenry has gone back to his old crud.
 
Normally, only our own mods change the topic.
 
@Cerberus Because he can, apparently.
 
Should I flag it?
 
Yeah, if you want it back I can change it back.
 
@Cerberus In fact, it has never happened before:
 
1:41 AM
I'm just asking why you changed it.
 
On Jun 10 9:47 AM       RegDwigнt      English Language & Usage: I am in a party. The wine is depleted. Then some Son of God manufacture even more win. Yay.”
On May 16 2:42 PM       RegDwigнt      English Language & Usage: The Incomprehensible Room. It slaws your typizg, too.”
On Jan 15 3:05 PM       RegDwigнt      English Language & Usage: The Incomprehensible Room. All languages spoken. At once.”
On Dec 22 '13 11:33 AM  RegDwigнt      English Language & Usage: Is or "verse" or a homonym of "verse" another word for versus?”
 
@Cerberus We got into this whole discussion on how the room topic didn't discuss the topic of the room...
 
Shouldn't our moderators change it, if needed?
This looks really weird, just saying.
 
@Cerberus Yes, but the candidates are spatting all over this non-issue. And I don’t mean spat.
 
@hichris123 Wouldn't it be wiser for you to stay out of it?
@tchrist Which candidates?
in EL&U 2014 Election, 1 min ago, by Cerberus
@phenry Okay, lost my vote.
 
1:45 AM
@Cerberus I'm trying to do that now. But I got pulled into it originally...
 
@Cerberus Yeah, but you’re a crony, too. :)
 
By whom?
 
Nice word, wasn’t it?
 
I support one of Phenry's main points.
 
In every election ever held on earth, every man, woman, and horse standing for a position has stood for some things that every individual voter agrees with and others that he feels to be complete horse-hockey. That doesn’t stop us from voting, nor should it.
However, now that one of the candidates has stooped so low as to start name-calling the active users of the site, his true colors should be clear for all. I will say no more about it because he doesn’t deserve the publicity.
 
2:48 AM
@Cerberus I have waited so long to use hemerine in my quotidian prattle.
 
@tchrist Huh, where did you use it?
 
@Cerberus After your two-minute window expired on your typo.
 
@tchrist Ah, I see it now.
Very droll, Humphrey.
 
nods
’Tis Midsummer Night’s Eve! Who can fault me for taking after Puck?
 
Oh, dear.
'Tis Midsummer for me.
 
2:57 AM
The shortest night of the year.
When all manner of fay things frolic and play in the fields and forests.
 
Is the night before the 21th shorter than that after?
And how frequent is that use of that still?
 
This is . . . complicated.
For sunrise and sunset do not wander symmetrically.
 
@TheodoreBroda I still not convinced, sorry.
 
@tchrist Only in the northern hemisphere!
Wait, am I right?
 
Well, Midsummer is in December in Australia.
 
3:01 AM
Jun 3 at 0:57, by tchrist
@JanusBahsJacquet That’s because I am that merry wanderer of the night.
 Either I mistake your shape and making quite;
 Or else you are that shrewd and knavish sprite
 Call’d Robin Goodfellow: are not you he
 That frights the maidens of the villagery;
 Skim milk, and sometimes labour in the quern
 And bootless make the breathless housewife churn;
 And sometime make the drink to bear no barm;
 Mislead night-wanderers, laughing at their harm?
 Those that Hobgoblin call you and sweet Puck,
 You do their work, and they shall have good luck:
 Are not you he?
                   Thou speak’st aright;
room topic changed to English Language & Usage: I am that merry wanderer of the night. Now get the Puck out of here, knave!
 If we shadows have offended,
 Think but this, and all is mended,
 That you have but slumber’d here
 While these visions did appear.
 And this weak and idle theme,
 No more yielding but a dream,
 Gentles, do not reprehend:
 If you pardon, we will mend:
 And, as I am an honest Puck,
 If we have unearned luck
 Now to ’scape the serpent’s tongue,
 We will make amends ere long;
 Else the Puck a liar call;
 So, good night unto you all.
 Give me your hands, if we be friends,
 And Robin shall restore amends.
 
Haha.
Yeah, it is the first time I hear this. And I have heard a lot of complaints about ELU, on Meta, in chat, on other SE sites, in other SE chat rooms.
 
@phenry You would not believe how many people did not understand that room topic.
 
Looks like the sun will be up any moment.
 
What hempen home-spuns have we swaggering here,
So near the cradle of the fairy queen?
@Cerberus Go out! Go out! Go out! Greet it from the highest peak!
 
Yeah, I had to think about it.
 
3:13 AM
Lord, what fools these mortals be!
 
@Mahnax I can second his remarks, only with regards to other chat rooms on the network. All the active rooms have a clique of regulars. They ignore new people.
 
I don't think the church towers are open now.
 
      night’s swift dragons cut the clouds full fast,
 And yonder shines Aurora's harbinger;
 At whose approach, ghosts, wandering here and there,
 Troop home to churchyards
 
Or, maybe not "ignore". But they go about their business and usually let newbies lurk.
If you speak up, they are usually polite.
 
Thus spake Puck.
 
3:14 AM
But not exactly enrolling you into their clique.
All the OTHER chat rooms are dead.
totally useless.
 
Puck is normally a girl's name here.
 
You might bump into the ghosts were you to try.
@Cerberus NO!
Puck is a boy’s boy, King Oberon’s cupbearer and principal mischief-maker.
 
Oh, except Writer's chat, they've got weekly writing exercises. But Writers.se is not that active.
 
Lorin has just brought me a cricket in vivo.
 
Do you remember the first time you came to ELU chat?
 
3:16 AM
I think they are new to him.
 
He does not know quite what to do with it.
 
I don't.
 
I do.
It was exciting find someone there.
 
you remember when YOU first came? or when I first came?
 
3:17 AM
When I first came.
I do remember when you were fairly new to chat.
 
But I'm going to go for tonight. I should study a bit, and this conversation has been relatively whirlwind. If anyone has more questions, please ping me, as always. I look forward to Theodore's Meta question and the ensuing discussion, and I'm especially interested in Reg's take on it.
 
@Cerberus Yes, I was also pleased to see activity, by users I recognized from the main site.
 
You had this purple Gravatar for the longest time. Correct?
@Mahnax Good night!
 
Purple is in.
 
@Cerberus me? it was a lego man sitting at a lego desk.
 
3:18 AM
Before that?
I could be mistaken...
 
It's got purple in it.
 
Ahh, yes, that one.
I don't recognise in that size, but I can imagine what the icon must look like, and that I recognise.
Who is star-spamming?
 
Yeah, just squint a bit.
 
> “The thing's hollow — it goes on forever — and — oh my God! — it's full of stars!”
 
I recognise the colours.
@tchrist Clarke?
 
3:20 AM
Anyway, it did seem to be a bit off-putting, the fast-pace of the chat room. But I wasn't there to ask for help.
 
@Cerberus Sir Arthur.
 
I was there to chat.
So in order to fit in I had to lurk.
 
Right.
 
then speak up.
just like at a party.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Which I consider fairly normal for lively chat rooms.
Do you remember your first impressions of individual people?
 
3:21 AM
This is Election Chat, guys. Please keep that in mind.
 
I was just going to say, the Doc will not like this!
Let's move to the main room. Instead of talking about it All. The. Time.
 
This chatting seems perfect for ELU chat. But a bit off-topic here.
 
And speaking as someone who likes to help out when people have questions in chat, I think having two rooms is untenable. I can't really maintain presence in two rooms at once. If I'm in a "help only" room, there is no "fun", if I'm in a "fun only" room, I'm not helping people.
 
@tchrist Yes, but not in Dutch.
 
room topic changed to English Language & Usage: I am that merry wanderer of the night. Now get the Puck out of here, knave!
 
3:23 AM
A boy's boy, really?
His impression was mainly about the room topic, I believe. But anyway.
 
@Cerberus Well, certainly he was no man’s boy: a fairy true and through, but no Ganymede.
 
Ah. well, the original room topic was "The incomprehensible room" and it certainly was that.
 
Then what's the difference?
 
I meant he was not a girly-boy.
Like a manly man, but in a boyish fashion.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And remains so to this day.
 
Ah.
 
3:27 AM
Now Lorin is chasing a mouse up and down the staircase.
Clearly stealing my typing focus.
 
@tchrist You're an old hand at Unix. focus follows mouse, right?
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That was the implication.
But I’m an old hand at everything.
 
Which I think is fun and attracts new users, or at least certain users.
 
@tchrist Well, these days on modern Linux desktops focus follows click. So only users with 10+ years X experience would get the joke.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 That’s so pucked up.
 
3:30 AM
Oh, by the way.
 
@Cerberus I just cannot get used to that idea.
 
@tchrist It's possible that it can be changed? I stopped changing it years ago.
 
We had a nasty crash in Linux the other day.
 
Chuck is a boy’s name, too.
 
Easier to go with the defaults
 
3:31 AM
Yesterday, in fact.
So is Linux really that stable?
It is a lightly used and fairly recently installed computer.
 
@Cerberus Just because one system crashes doesn't imply anything about the stability of the OS in general.
 
Libre Office crashed in an awful way during printing: it hung.
 
Buck is a boy’s name, too.
 
@Cerberus Libre Office is not linux.
 
Huck is a boy’s name, too.
 
3:32 AM
But the printing box hung Libre Office.
 
@Cerberus I'm not sure what you mean.
 
Tuck is a boy’s name, too.
In fuct, I can find no pucking girls’ names amongst any of the -ucks.
 
Anyway, yes. Linux is very stable. Unless you have badly-supported hardware, or defective hardware. No OS can be stable under those circumstances. It also happens that there are, from time to time, bugs. Sometimes those bugs are triggered by a particular workload that is unusual.
 
Well, maybe Duck.
Unclear on that one’s gender.
 
These days, Windows is also very stable. Much much better than it used to be.
 
3:35 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 My pupil pressed Print in Libre Office. A thing pops up that informs one of the status of the printing process. The thing refused to go away.
 
So when comparing the two, Linux's advantage has diminished, because Windows closed the gap.
 
And it hung Libre Office.
 
@Cerberus Okay. What does that have to do with Linux?
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, XP is very stable.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 And just as Purgatory is a pleasant holiday to those from the netherer realms, no unfallen angel would account it quaint.
 
3:36 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 OK that was my impression.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 The printing thing seemed to be a Linux thing.
I don't understand Linux. I have to make assumptions.
 
Unix is simple.
That’s the whole point.
 
@tchrist enh. There's lots to loathe about Windows, but every OS sucks.
 
However, it takes a genius to understand its simplicity. :)
 
@tchrist Well, it was. It's not any more.
At least, not Linux.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I run OpenBSD and Darwin. Have a nice day.
 
3:38 AM
@tchrist Darwin... with MacOS on top?
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Lurking above me like Damocles’ fate.
 
@tchrist yeah. So none of that part of your OS is simple either.
 
The OpenBSD boxen are.
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I try never to go there. It confuddles me into an unmerry Puck.
What I find of it, I find through the filesystem. plists and such.
Or in /dev.
 
@tchrist sure, I guess. But Linux has long since left OpenBSD behind in terms of capabilities. Maybe none of those things matter to you. But a modern Linux system has all kinds of things that break, or rather, complicate, the unix philosophy.
 
I'm seeing stars.
 
3:41 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I run everything I want to run.
 
@tchrist yeah, but you are limited in what hardware you can use, what kinds of power management you can have, etc.
If it works for you, great, by all means.
 
If you say so.
 
Well, Linux supports more hardware than any other OS.
Does that matter to you? probably not.
 
Must. Clean. Mousery.
                              not a mouse
 Shall disturb this hallowed house:
 I am sent with broom before,
 To sweep the dust behind the door.
 
Anyway if you allow that some of the OS's core components are complicated, to support use-cases like multiple users with removable media, bluetooth, hot-pluggable cpus and ram, user-space filesystems, etc, and if you trust your distribution to set that shit up right, the REST of the OS is more or less as you'd expect unix to be.
 
3:45 AM
38 messages moved from EL&U 2014 Election
 
> SSD price war imminent
 
@Seth was that necessary?
 
> The SSD industry is heading for fierce price competition as major suppliers, including Micron Technology, Intel, Kingston Technology, SanDisk and Samsung Electronics, are gearing up efforts to outperform others, according to industry sources.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Necessary? Well, no one was going to die if I didn't ;)
 
@Seth Please don’t clutter our starboard, pretty please?
 
3:48 AM
Yeah, can those single stars be deleted?
Not that it is important.
 
1 message moved from EL&U 2014 Election
 
@tchrist I was just cleaning them up. Got any more you want removed? cc @Cerberus
 
@Seth All the migrated ones.
 
kk
 
@Seth It seems like it pointlessly complicates following the conversation thread.
 
3:51 AM
4 messages moved from EL&U 2014 Election
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 More like it needlessly clutters up the election room. If you think I should have moved any more go ahead and point out which.
 
12 messages moved from EL&U 2014 Election
 
@Seth No, I am strongly opposed to you moving any messages whatsoever. I am an adult, and I knew which room I was in when I wrote them.
 
@medica Please stop that, you cannot fix the stars!
 
I'm sorry, stop what?
 
3:52 AM
I'll be here for a bit longer, go ahead and point out stars you want gone.
 
@Seth Nope, this is perfect.
 
I don't see how moving those messages to this chat makes any sense. The conversation didn't take place here. It has no context.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Hmm good point.
 
@Cerberus alrighty.
 
@Seth Please tell @tchrist that you said I was allowed to do this
 
3:53 AM
Children, children.
 
Yup. You guys should stay on-topic in the election room as much as possible, that way people who actually want to talk about the election can :)
 
@Seth Am I able to do this or shall I stop
 
She didn’t understand the stellar transgressions.
 
@medica Seems like you got most of them =)
 
@tchrist I didn't move and stars
 
3:54 AM
Mr Shiny has a good point: what good is it to interject messages into a conversation that break it?
 
@Seth far from it; like I said, it asted for an hour.
 
Just delete those lines.
No need to migrate them hither.
 
@medica kkkk
 
@Seth We were on topic. The topic was whether or not this chat room is hostile to new users. That was brought up as an election issue.
 
watches his cursor move up four lines
 
3:55 AM
I have no authority to delete.
 
Ok, we can just delete them then.
 
Can I delete them? You wanted to leave.
 
Only if they are really off topic, of course...
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Talking about your purple gravatar doesn't really relate to election business one way or the other does it ;)
 
@Cerberus They were off topic and you know it.
 
3:56 AM
@medica No, you can't.
 
@Seth That was like two messages.
 
@medica “and you know it” is not nice to say.
 
Let's keep it civil, everyone.
 
I object to random mods coming in here and moving the furniture around.
7
 
I've seen a lot of stuff in these two rooms lately that could really have been avoided.
 
3:57 AM
Then delete this and go home. I will.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I’m sure that @Reg will fix our title come the morn.
 
1 message moved from EL&U 2014 Election
 
@medica Honestly I don't know why you're doing this.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I thought these were SE staffers; I didn’t realize they were alien mods.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Because there was general chatting in the election room. It doesn't belong there. Do you like purple? Doesn't belong in the election chat room, really, does it? Nor pictures of legos.
 
4:01 AM
@medica gods. TWO friggin' messages.
 
ENOFUN
 
Fine, delete those two messages then.
 
@tchrist ?
 
@medica It’s Unix. You wouldn’t understand it.
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, there were more like a hundred.
@tchrist Then why bother telling me?
 
4:03 AM
@medica Because you asked.
 
Catch 22.
 
@medica Okay, whatever. I'm through trying to understand your decision-making process. It is alien to me.
 
Not my fault.
 
say something incomprehensible; person asks what? say I wont understand it.
 
@medica You forget what room we are in, my dear.
 
4:04 AM
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 As was the childishness that erupted in the election room chat tonight was to me. Over one friggin comment. Started by Theodore Broda, a user here, who stated he was offended by something.
SHIT meet FAN
Are we not in ELU chat?
 
@medica It's "The Incomprehsible Room... now with a different subtitle"
@medica So the discussion about whether or not the chat room is hostile was itself, entirely off-topic for that room?
 
No, not at all. I wish it had stayed on that topic. But no. It's about typing speed, and not knowing kit sox was a bot. Fuck's sake. Who cares? I asked KitSox a question and I found out she was a bot. I'm not dead. Does that crap belong on the Election Chat?
People thing we're a bunch of uncivilized snobs.
 
No.
 
well, that election chat tonight proved it.
 
They think we’re a bunch of hypereducated snobs.
Utterly different thing.
Diametrically opposing, in fact.
 
4:10 AM
No. We are not nice people. That has nothing to do with education and everything to do with civilization.
 
@medica People think we're snobs because we close questions, not because we sometimes have lively chats.
 
CIVILization.
We are not civil.
 
@medica Kindly find a first-person-exclusive inflection for that one.
 
No. I won't.
"Trittos"
 
Perhaps it is time for you to sleep.
 
4:11 AM
very civil.
no, it's time for me to clean up the Election chat room.
 
I find that it often improves the disposition.
 
It's time for me to clean up the Election chat room.
 
For though weeping should last the whole night long, joy cometh in the morning.
 
@medica What does that actually accomplish?
 
@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Makes messes of things.
 
4:12 AM
Chats are not meant to be long-term archives of knowledge.
 
@tchrist you know nothing sometimes
 
They are meant to be real-time.
Sweeping undesirable election-room msgs into here doesn't really make the world a better place.
 
@medica Your own tongue puts the lie to your vaunted claims of civility.
 
Today I found out more about this site than I cared to know, like that I was called medicasshole.
messes of unkindnesses.
 
@medica who says that? I've never seen that
 
4:14 AM
you are not civilized.
I saw it with my own eyes.
much to my dismay.
I'm also a vituperative bitch.
2
Not just a schoolmarmish bitch.
a vituperative one.
 
@medica better than basic, though, right? ;p
Anyway. Moving election-chat msgs here just makes the transcripts even harder to follow.
A better use of time would be consolidating the useful messages into some kind of summary.
 
so now I'm a secretary.
 
@medica And you propose to be a janitor.
Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
 
No, I'll let it stand.
I volunteered for that job.
 
@medica No. You are, however, apparently concerned with the quality of information transfer that occurs in the election chat.
And volunteering to do at least some kind of work to repair that.
viz moving messages
I am suggesting that that is not the best way.
 
4:19 AM
Yes.
 
@medica Be more careful about whom you accuse of saying precisely what, for the log will show exactly what was and was not said. I was delicate, indirect, named no names, and did not use the words you quote there.
 
you know, when someone throws vituperative in your face, as robusto did but a few nights ago, after telling me on a public place to not get my knickers in a twist, it feels like there's a bitch attached.
And I feel demeaned.
 
Assuming good faith is a fundamental principle on Wikipedia. It is the assumption that editors' edits and comments are made in good faith. Most people try to help the project, not hurt it. If this were untrue, a project like Wikipedia would be doomed from the beginning. This guideline does not require that editors continue to assume good faith in the presence of obvious evidence to the contrary (). Assuming good faith does not prohibit discussion and criticism. Rather, editors should not attribute the actions being criticized to malice unless there is specific evidence of malice. ...
 
@Shog9 you were the one who showed me medicasshole!
Why should I assume good faith?
There's not an abundance of good faith here.
at least not by the vocal minority.
Now I've probably dug myself into a "she's an emotional, controllong bitch" hole.
Because other people are unkind.
 
I must to bed, to greet the daystar from the top of Mt Evans at 14,256' in the morn.
Be well.
 
4:28 AM
@tchrist Nighty-night.
@medica Honest question, I didn't see those comments: do you really have a problem with "don't get your knickers in a twist"?
People have said that to me in various SE chat rooms.
 
This wasn't said to me in a chat room, to which I would take little or no offense. It was said to me in meta because of lack of a better response.
 
@medica because it makes communication easier. That said...
> This guideline does not require that editors continue to assume good faith in the presence of obvious evidence to the contrary. Assuming good faith does not prohibit discussion and criticism.
Read the whole article. It's a good principle for general interaction.
 
@tchrist - what you meant to say was "be warm", wasn't it?
I've read a lot on assuming good faith, and I love the principle. But there was a bit too much evidence of other motives today, for one day.
 
@medica I don't buy into the idea that effective communication requires perfect understanding or tolerance of offense - but human interaction is subject to a very high rate of errors, and one must strive to perform error-correction or reject potentially-garbled transmissions if one is to persist in communicating. Other participants may be persnickety, but this does not have to transfer to you.
 
@medica It can be impolite, but really problematic?
 
4:38 AM
Anyway, that's all the drama I want tonight, lest I be called, once again in but a few days, a drama queen, simply because I feel something.
 
@Shog9 You're trying to pour water on the fireworks again, aren't you.
 
and, again, lest anyone accuse me of storming off, I bid you a good night. No more tonight.
 
Haha.
Good night.
@medica You're not storming off: you're just walking fast and closing the door slightly louder than normal. It doesn't count.
 
4:58 AM
@Cerberus Owners can change title.
 
@JohanLarsson OK.
 

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