English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

19:00

We Dutchmen are not big on gestures and hand signs.

@Jez do what? hold up two fingers? possibly? It's very rare that I'd hold up two fingers. And usually the palm is outwards. So I'd have to have a special reason for holding my hand like in that photo.....

oerkelens

@Cerberus That is why we are so poorly understood when we try to speak Italian

Cerberus

Haha sure.

tchrist

You’re barking up the wrong tree. That’s what the woodpecker said to the carpenter.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Really? When you order two beers, what do you do?

tchrist

19:01

@Cerberus That thing.

oerkelens

@tchrist That could be an actual quote from Alice :D

Cerberus

@tchrist There you go.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I tell the waiter "two beers, please". But that never happens.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 This is for when the music is so loud the bartender would need to really lean in to hear you.

tchrist

@oerkelens Actually, I’m intentionally talking like Jonas to tickle Cerb with.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:02

And if I did want to signal across the room to the waiter that I wanted two somethings, I'd probably have my palm to the waiter, not to me, which is a different gesture than in the photo.

oerkelens

@tchrist that thing with an inward palm is likely not to get you beer from me is I'm your waiter :)

tchrist

@oerkelens Well, are you cute? :)

Jez

@Cerberus well it was supposed to mean "fuck you" so you interpreted it incorrectly :-)

oerkelens

@tchrist My wife and my girlfriend think so :)

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh, that is really odd. I could do it either way, palm or the obverse. No difference in meaning: "two beers, please".

KitFox

19:03

It would be an emphatic 2 in my neck of the woods.

tchrist

@oerkelens Ah yes, and so we return to “Take two, they’re small.”

Cerberus

@Jez Yes. I knew it had to mean that...

Jez

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 apparently many americans/canadians hold it with the palm facing inwards to mean "peace". trouble is the second you leave the US/canada it means "fuck you", lol, kind of the wrong message

Cerberus

@oerkelens Huh, why not?

KitFox

No, palm out is "peace".

oerkelens

19:04

@tchrist They are. How did you know?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, it would have no difference in meaning here, either, for most people. But palm out seems easier and more natural to me.

tchrist

@Jez No, it still means what we mean it to mean.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez I've never seen it that way.

Jez

then again, maybe it works well for Americans. "Fuck you if you're not american" :-P

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 So gay.

tchrist

19:04

@oerkelens I’ve betting tutoring Cerb.

Cerberus

@Jez Tsk.

oerkelens

@Cerberus Because the palm inward version means FU, and I do not respond to rude language or gestures kindly when I'm working :)

Cerberus

@oerkelens In in what place are we talking about?

Jez

anywhere outside north America

Cerberus

In any random bar here, I could do it either way.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:05

@oerkelens pro tip: it doesn't mean that in the US or Canada, so don't infer what's not being implied.

Cerberus

@Jez Not here!

Jez

certainly anywhere english-speaking

Cerberus

We don't speak English.

We do have lots of English-speaking bartenders.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I'm not sure why you said that?

tchrist

> “I don't know what was wrong, but believe me, their departure was impressive and unmistakable — that’s what the bear said, you know, about the picnickers.”

Jez

19:06

anyway you should err on the safe side and have the palm outwards

oerkelens

@Cerberus NL, at least anywhere where 1) there are enough people that understand and 2) not too many people who's livelihood depends on ignoring tourists' rudeness :)

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I'm making the gesture with palm outwards now, it suddenly it seemed more gay, you need a limper wrist.

@oerkelens Umm it appears you and I have very different impressions of Dutch customs.

Jez

@Cerberus probably why the more "forceful" palm-inward version means "fuck you" :-)

oerkelens

@Cerberus beçause when Winston did it, he looked so stereotypically gay?!?!

Cerberus

Could be!

@oerkelens Who?

And why the cédille?

tchrist

19:08

> 'Still, it's a terrible way to earn a living.' That's what the thorn-bush said to the shrike, you know."

oerkelens

@Cerberus Winston. That guy with the cigar and the palm outward victory sign?

Cerberus

I don't know, is this about Churchill?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus What? When you hold up your hand, isn't it easier for your palm to face out? I have to twist my forearm to make my palm face inwards.

tchrist

> Do you recall your name?" At that he thought for several moments, and at last smiled ruefully. "I lost it somewhere along the way. That's what the jaguar said, who had promised to guide the goat."

oerkelens

@Cerberus Because of my stupid keyboard settings

@Cerberus That would be the one

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:09

Jez

@oerkelens Churchill stopped making that sign palm-inward pretty damn quick

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Only if I really raise my hand. But the sign is normally made at chest height here.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus it's still easier for me to do it palm-out.

tchrist

> I laughed and admitted that a knife would have been useful when Sidero threw me off the platform. "Oh, no," she told me. "A knife wouldn't have scratched him." She grinned. "That's what the whoremaster said when the sailor came."

oerkelens

gets confused. Meant outward

But @Cerberus, the guy on that pic looks gay to you?

Cerberus

19:10

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I also hold my hand a bit diagonally.

Jez

@Cerberus u r weird

oerkelens

Well, apart from looking happy and British

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Cerberus

@oerkelens No, because he is raising his arm high.

Jez

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 "hahaha, fuck you!"

oerkelens

19:11

@Cerberus If I want beer I tend to raise my arm high too :P

At least as long as I can (physically)

Cerberus

@oerkelens I don't? Why?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Hm. maybe if my arm is diagonal palm in is easier. But now we're getting into Heisenberg territory. Thinking too much about what we say or do or how we say/do it changes it.

Jez

@Cerberus that's kind of a sideways "fuck you"

Cerberus

This is how I would normally order two beer. Raising my hand might seem like I was trying to get his attention too much.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yay!

@Jez Yes. But not here.

Jez

@Cerberus take my advice, and don't do that in a British pub :-)

or an Aussie pub

Cerberus

19:13

I shan't.

Jez

or a South African bar

etc

oerkelens

@Cerberus Makes it easier to get noticed across a large room. Then again, if I were doing it palm-inward, I would try to hide it a bit :P

Cerberus

@Jez But you know what, I might actually do that by accident.

@oerkelens I would not normally signal a bartender like that across the room!

tchrist

> "I thought it went well," I said. "You know what the octopus remarked when he got out of the mermaid's kelp bed: 'I'm not impugning your skill--quite the opposite. But you look as if you could use a little cheering up.' "

Cerberus

Only if he is already looking me like "do you want to order?".

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:14

oerkelens

@Cerberus Depends. I prefer to sit at the bar. But then, just a slight hand movement, with not specific amount of fingers involved, does the trick :)

Jez

"what do you want to order?" "go fuck yourself!"

lol

Cerberus

@oerkelens Only if you're alone...

oerkelens

@Jez Maybe Cerb doesn't drink much :P

@Cerberus A man is never alone at the bar... for long :)

Cerberus

When I'm sitting at a bar, and the noise is really loud, I will probably still do the hand sign so he won't have to lean in.

@oerkelens And when he's not, he might have more than one companion...

Jez

19:16

@oerkelens whats that supposed to mean

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Except that it doesn't mean that.

Jez

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 does in many places

Cerberus

It does in the Commonwealth!

Thanks for the reminder, I'll try to be careful...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez And in the places where it doesn't mean that, it doesn't mean that.

tchrist

Nonsense.

Jez

19:17

this came about because someone did it in an English-language youtube video. i pointed out that they might want to avoid doing that if they want to appeal to all English speakers

oerkelens

@Jez That it's a good place to find company :)

Jez

@oerkelens news to me. hasnt worked for me before. unless of course you're confident and make first moves

oerkelens

@tchrist Most certainly! (what is?)

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 He’s just trying to pick a fight with North Americans, to belittle and upbraid us and make himself feel superior. Ignore the pitiful creature.

I can’t believe you’ve all let it go on so long, either.

oerkelens

@Jez Maybe I'm simply irresistible... then again, it may turn out to be guys that are interested, so don;t get your hopes up :P

Jez

19:19

@tchrist christ, do you need some tea?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I had a university prof who would hold chalk with his thumb and first finger and point at stuff with his middle finger. It always looked like he was giving the whole class the finger. We giggled a bit, but everyone knew he wasn't trying to tell us to fuck off.

tchrist

It’s a much nicer place that way.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Similarly, with the two fingers gesture, there is room for interpretation. I'm sure nobody thought Churchill was telling people to fuck off either. They were just giggling at seeming impropriety.

It's like laughing when you hear French people speaking about seals. Yes, yes, it sounds like fuck.

we all know that.

Cerberus

Seals?

oerkelens

@Cerberus Des phoques

Cerberus

19:22

I only know fique.

@oerkelens Ohh...

J'savais pas.

oerkelens

One of the first words I learned when I was in Québec

Cerberus

Tsk.

@tchrist Isn't that your imagination?

oerkelens

If I wanted to go see les phoques

Cerberus

Nice.

oerkelens

I honestly had no clue what the hell they were offering

tchrist

19:23

@Cerberus I should be so plucky.

Cerberus

You shouldn't be so testy.

Hehe.

Jez

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 i dunno, there's something deep-ingrained in me that i can't really shake. if someone (especially a native English speaker) makes the V sign that way, i instinctively feel like i've been insulted, even understanding their intended meaning. given that we have an internationally-recognized peace sign, using the V sign that way on purpose smacks of the kind of arrogance that isn't that far away from "fuck you", anyway

Cerberus

Don't you think that is a bit of an exaggeration? Those poor people have no clue.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez What's the "internationally-recognized peace sign"? palm-out-two-fingers?

Jez

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yes

oerkelens

19:26

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Much less controversial than an internationally recognized prosperity and eternity sign :)

Mitch

@Jez "I'll have two beers please."

tchrist

There are like an order of magnitude more native English speakers in North America than there are in little olde England. They really don’t matter that much.

Jez

@tchrist ooooh trollololol

tchrist

Completely insular culture.

oerkelens

@tchrist At least a culture :)

tchrist

19:27

Can’t even elect a president.

Cerberus

Haha.

Except that England is the locus of English.

Jez

@tchrist:

Cerberus

Everyone respects that.

Jez

(that means OK in my culture)

Cerberus

Hey, now, let's keep things civilised.

tchrist

19:28

@Cerberus Nope.

Jez

@Cerberus i am i am, just respect my culture ;-)

Cerberus

@tchrist Everyone outside America, at least.

oerkelens

@Cerberus Why would we respect English locusts?

Jez

oh come on

people aren't respecting my culture!!

Cerberus

@oerkelens Because they have grazed their various colonies so effectively?

Jez

19:29

so

oerkelens

@Cerberus Good point

Cerberus

As have we.

Jez

that gives you some idea of how "tolerant" people are of the person's culture who is giving the sign

it's all about how it's interpreted

Mitch

@Jez Oh... "I am twice the idiot you think I am."

Jez

you guys all found that so offensive you flagged it

tchrist

19:30

@Cerberus You’ll never convince 300 million native speakers.

Cerberus

@Jez Well, we know you are not sincere here, so that doesn't count.

oerkelens

@Cerberus sure, but at least we got coffee out of it

Jez

now maybe you understand why the outward V sign is a bit shitty for non-US people

@Cerberus give me a break

Cerberus

@tchrist Hence "outside America".

Jez

you're purposely missing the point

Cerberus

19:30

@oerkelens But I don't like coffee.

tchrist

Nor will you convince most of them that that domain matters one whit.

oerkelens

@Cerberus What!?

Jez

not stubborn people like you, no

tchrist

Because in fact, it does not.

Cerberus

@Jez I still think people using a certain sign without knowing that it could be offensive in a different culture are not to blame.

Jez

19:31

so yeah, screw you

MickLH

Guys

Cerberus

@oerkelens I like the smell?

MickLH

American English and British English are different phrases for a reason

oerkelens

@Cerberus Ok, I forgive you. A bit.

Cerberus

I'm sorry!

Jez

19:32

@Cerberus of course not, but people using the sign knowing it is offensive is a different matter

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Are English people so unaware of the fact that it DOESN'T always mean that that they immediately get super-offended whenever they see that gesture, even if the person using the gesture isn't trying to offend?

Cerberus

@oerkelens By the way, serious question, can you ever imagine a Dutchman and a Belgian having a "discussion" like this?

oerkelens

@Cerberus Had an Indian colleague coming in with a laptop with a nice swastika painted on it. She really had no idea :)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

This is like the other day with the cock/god thing.

oerkelens

@Cerberus Not easily, no

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:33

If I use the word "cock" to refer to a rooster, should you be offended, just because sometimes it can also refer to a penis?

Jez

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 nope, but once we've told you it's strongly offensive in our language, it does become more offensive. like if we kept using the word "fag" to you

Cerberus

@Jez Yes, it is; but I think a mistake made because you happened to be used to a certain routine is also not a serious offence.

Jez

it's taking the piss

Cerberus

@oerkelens Wasn't that a counter-clockwise swastika? Those are two different signs, right?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez And yet I don't see you lot avoiding that word all that much. And anyway context always makes it clear.

tchrist

19:34

What a way to ruin a conversation.

oerkelens

@Jez I'm quite sure that as long as you keep referring to burning them, smoking them, lighting them up - not many Americans will object

Cerberus

@oerkelens Neither could I. I'm glad we have killed patriotism with irony here...except for Wilders and such.

Jez

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 erm, yes we do. we don't say "fag" to americans because we know full well that it's offensive over there.

tchrist

People looking for fights often find them.

oerkelens

@Cerberus Not really. Both are used, and actually both were also used by the Nazis

tchrist

19:34

And are all the less welcome for that.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 If you use the word "penis" at random, should people be offended?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez Why do I still hear it then? still see it?

Jez

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 what, when Brits are talking to americans, or amongst themselves?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus were you here for the cock-is-a-euphemism-for-god argument?

tchrist

Tourette syndrome

Tourette syndrome (also called Tourette's syndrome, Tourette's disorder, Gilles de la Tourette syndrome, GTS or, more commonly, simply Tourette's or TS) is an inherited neuropsychiatric disorder with onset in childhood, characterized by multiple physical (motor) tics and at least one vocal (phonic) tic. These tics characteristically wax and wane, can be suppressed temporarily, and are preceded by a premonitory urge. Tourette's is defined as part of a spectrum of tic disorders, which includes provisional, transient and persistent (chronic) tics. Tourette's was once considered a rare a...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:35

@Jez when Brits are talking where non-brits might overhear.

Cerberus

@oerkelens Oh, really? So that as a myth, I see.

Jez

overhear is not really too bad, is it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

That was your original question, right? Would I make that gesture if I thought a non-north-american might see it?

Jez

it's when you're directing the word or gesture at someone

no

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 No, I have already bought one of those the last time it was on sale, thank you.

Jez

19:36

make it at someone

oerkelens

@Cerberus Trying to give the uneasy feeling a cozy place, I guess :P

Cerberus

@tchrist For example!!

tchrist

I speak my language. It’s up to foreigners to learn that.

Jez

or at a group containing people who would find it offensive

Cerberus

@oerkelens Who?

oerkelens

19:37

@Cerberus Whoever came up with the clockwise/counterclockwise thing :)

tchrist

If they find themselves embarazadas, then they need to check with their gynecologist.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Jez maybe I don't understand just how offensive this gesture must be to you. Because even if a person making a video on youtube gave the camera the finger, so that it appears that they give it to me, I don't really feel personally offended.

oerkelens

@tchrist Where gynecologist?

tchrist

@oerkelens There, there.

Cerberus

@oerkelens Ah OK, could be.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Agreed.

People getting offended by symbols need a check-up.

Special circumstances excepted.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:39

@Cerberus Well, I mean, it really depends on what's being said.

But like my old prof. He gave the whole class the finger for like 3 hours EVERY WEEK.

Cerberus

It does, but I mean a symbol that is not directed at an individual person and does not reflect any real opinion or attitude or action.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

And he's a native speaker of north american english. He knows the gesture.

tchrist

If I ask for an ice cream cone in English, I am not going to get all twitterpated that some francophone might misunderstand my request as being something naughty.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I have probably done that as well, indicate something with my middle finger on occasion.

@tchrist Ohh how does that work?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But he was, and wasn't, making the gesture. Just like when I talk about roosters and call them cocks, I'm not using a (potentially offensive) word for penis.

tchrist

19:41

@Cerberus I am too bashful to say.

Cerberus

You?

tchrist

We’re not talking about bunnies, honey, but the third word like those two.

Cerberus

?

tchrist

Of course, twitterpation has taken on an entirely new meaning now.

@Cerberus cuniculus

The rabid Roman rabbit.

Mitch

@tchrist Ooh ooh.. I found one!

tchrist

19:45

@Mitch Well, what do you expect from a rabbit?

Mitch

No, a fight, I found a fight.

I'd rather know how an ice cream cone is bad in French.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So those are called "ouates" in French

tchrist

Whats?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

And the joke is that they're made out of seals

tchrist

@Mitch The -e is silent.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

19:47

des "ouates de phoque"

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Déjà entendu.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist yeah I figured you would have heard that one.

tchrist

Spanish has la foca as well, but there is no *focar verb to seal the deal.

Although the Mexicans use afocar to mean enfocar.

“Enfoquen bien, por favor.”

And the final -en sounds like -em.

Which is just about rude.

How many blues are there again? :)

macbook# colorgrep '\bblu' | grep -c :
72

Seventy-two.

Cerberus

@tchrist I don't get it...

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Watten in Dutch.

Is it from wad/wat?

French ou- is often from Germanic w-?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

beats me.

Cerberus

19:57

Sounds like it.

They did the same in Greek with ou-.

Matt Эллен

Those Greeks!

tchrist

@Cerberus And f ’em bien, por favor.

Cerberus

?

tchrist

Americans having such poor accents in Spanish, you never know. :)

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Those Brits!

tchrist

19:59

It’s like Mr Shiny’s French one.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus Getting drunk and invading other countries?

tchrist

@MattЭллен Does Wales count? :)

Matt Эллен

@tchrist nah, it's just a principality ;)

tchrist

I always thought that it was the principal that counted. Or was that the earl?

Matt Эллен

I don't know

tchrist

20:01

If princes print and counts count, what do earls do?

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Ah, we all did that back in the day.

tchrist

Everything they do is early.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus true, true :D

tchrist

A former prince prances.

Cerberus

Earls hurl.

Matt Эллен

20:02

@tchrist listen?

@Cerberus ha! yes

tchrist

@Cerberus Sounds like a Track & Field event to me!

Earl Hurling.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

tchrist

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Are those 8" floppies?

So many panic buttons!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@tchrist I'm not sure. I'd guess 5 1/4"

Otherwise that monitor would be pretty wide

tchrist

Well, yes.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:06

more pics here

tchrist

SFW?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

heh it's computer/lego porn, so... you decide :)

That little model is for sale, for $89.50

Stack Exchange

Limerick Machine: A song is thing that you sing A ball is something that you fling Do not them confuse While addled...

posted on May 07, 2014 by sgdi

A song is thing that you sing A ball is something that you fling Do not them confuse While addled with booze Flinging a song while bawling

Cerberus

20:56

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Ohh I love it.

OMG I have surpassed Kosmonaut at last!!!

It took only two years of his absence for me to gather enough reps...

Matt Эллен

woo!

celebrate good times, come on!

also: time for bed

Cerberus

Good night!

@MattЭллен Have you ever tried Tinder btw.?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

21:13

@Cerberus he has.

Mitch

@tchrist How did you know? It's my nose right? It always gives me away.

@tchrist un con de glace? It starts off rude but then gets weird.

tchrist

@Mitch Quite.

Será una perra fría.

I know, don’t call you Sarah.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh OK, thanks for answering. Did he like it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I think he said it was okay, and that the app had some bugs.

tchrist

21:29

@JohnLawler So this is an adverbial phrase attaching to the verb not an adjectival one attaching to the noun? The OED has “to have in common” falling under sense 2b for have “with complement or adverbial extension, particularizing the relation of the object or expressing some qualification, condition or limitation thereof.” It gives as a citation: “1634 Sir T. Herbert Trav. 3 — They used to have their Wives in common.” I’m sure more modern examples could be found in Utah. :) — tchrist 1 min ago

Or maybe it would be 5 men sharing 3 wives in common.

That seems . . . complicated.

c c

On my ride back tonight
on the road some tiny light
a fireflies crossing this hostile surface right?
sadly it was just some tobacco insight

tchrist

No one but a mathematician would call a ⁵⁄₃ arrangement a rational one.

To anyone else, it would be a fractious one indeed.

c c

21:48

⁵⁄₃∈ℚ

Jez

im thinking back to the first question in my interview: give me a piece of software you use that you would consider to be badly designed

what would you guys have said?

oerkelens

22:00

Facebook.

Changing the ways to control your privacy protection so often that I got too scared to actually use it.

Jez

22:14

ah, but i dont use that

:-)

Cerberus

22:27

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Oh, what kind of bugs?

Interface bugs, or something deeper?

Mitch

@Jez Windows Settings

Cerberus

@oerkelens I know!! But the bad privacy options (I want a single button "hide everything from everyone!") are a feature, not a bug...

Just like comment abridgement on SE.

Mitch

@Cerberus comments are abridged on SE?

@Jez all software is terrible design if you just give it time.

Cerberus

@Mitch Comment threads.

Mitch

Oh I have one...the Java 6 date classes DateFormat, Date, Calendar... etc.

oerkelens

22:31

@Cerberus The feature is design, the design leads to less users, less users contradicts the business model => badly designed software :)

Mitch

@Cerberus you can keep going for as long as you like can't you? You might get a message saying stop it, but you can still keep going.

Cerberus

@oerkelens I agree: "is" in this context means "is according to those fools".

@Mitch No, that's not what I mean. You're joking, right?

oerkelens

@Cerberus Hey, the question was for badly designed software. If it were a bud, it wouldn't be badly designed, just badly implemented :)

Anyways, I'm designed to get some sleep at least, which is what I am going to do now :)

Cerberus

Umm I'm afraid such fine distinctions are over my head.

Good night! Turning in early, good for you.

oerkelens

Yeah, it's early. For a Thursday morning :P

oogjes dicht en snaveltjes toe :)

Cerberus

22:45

@oerkelens Dag meneer de Uil!

Of is het mijnheer den Uyl?

c c

@Jez SQL is often a bad design compared to web semantic and SPARQL (pronunced 'sparkle')

!!define spell

KitSox

@cc pronounce (transitive) To formally declare, officially or ceremoniously.

@cc spell (obsolete) Speech, discourse. [8th-15th c.]

c c

but since 95% of people rely on SQL, this is not changeable

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