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2:00 PM
whaddya mean super not authoritative... Wikipedia is the most accurate source of information on the planet!! ;)
[/end sarcasm]
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith Whoa, okay. This is cool.
@BESW I want to learn more about those and I figure I should google this
 
@JonathanHobbs they are among the most mysterious men in the entire biblical text.
they just sort of show up, tell Herod about the king born under his nose, stop by to give him presents, then exit stage left
 
@waxeagle and only one of the books mentions them
 
ok, off topic here... but I am reading the Spaceship Zero core book atm and I gotta say I think I found the best name of a character ever. Ensign Benson. I freaking love that character name! hahahaha
 
@JonathanHobbs yes, though only 2 of the gospels have a birth story, John and Mark both skip over that
 
2:07 PM
@MC_Hambone I am reading a book with an android named Alpha Bettik
 
@MC_Hambone Wait, your RPG rulebook is off-topic? I love this chat.
4
 
@JonathanHobbs that took me saying it aloud, but that is pretty cool too!
@BESW hahaha, right?! I mean it's just not on the theme of our current discussion
 
i found this and i am going to share and put it here
2
 
@waxeagle Where's the bit in the Gospels where Christ says he knows more stuff but it'd blow the brains out of anyone who hears it, so he'll wait until he comes back to share it? I'm paraphrasing.
 
@MC_Hambone I have hit walls on history.se or scifi and fantasy.se with regards to wikipedia being accepted as a source
 
2:13 PM
@BESW I'll see if I can track that one down :)
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith most of the time i find the info is correct, but I think sites like these need primary source citation.
 
thats the thing its a like 75% success rate on being accurate
but thats not enough
and you always want primary sources
 
Wikipedia's a great place to start, and an awful place to stop.
3
But the talk pages are hilarious, and often more informative than the main articles.
 
yep, always check any cited sources at the end of the articles
 
part of my problem with wikipedia is its attempt to be an unbaised and balanced source for everything in the world
its an absurd goal but one people believe but media bias in general is a hobby horse of mine
Id much rather read wikipages with a bias stated upfront giving me context and background on whats being written
 
2:19 PM
@JoshuaAslanSmith a complete and unbiased source seems like a noble goal to me
 
@MC_Hambone sounds nice, infinitely unattainable
 
Best talk page entry I've ever seen is on the Talk page for Felt:
 
glass half empty attitude! We can do anything we put our minds to!
 
> Someone has asked for verification of the existence of felt in frozen burials in Siberia, and I happen to know that this refers to the Frozen Tombs of Pazyryk, which are well-documented online. There are several large pieces of felt from there exhibited in the Hermitage Museum in Moscow. [...]
 
@MC_Hambone change the inherent nature of human beings? not likely.
 
2:21 PM
> [...] I find it interesting that this material is so poorly treated here, given its antiquity and importance as a material among nomadic peoples, and though I would fill in the blanks, so to speak, I am, perhaps, at one with the anonymous contributor who just wants to get hold of a big piece of felt, so as to use it to avoid the attentions of remote surveillance devices! It must be someone else's job to fill in the blanks and provide the appropriate references...
@Filipe Hi!
 
we all have bias and even when we seek to self-censor our biases some still remain or we create new ones
objectivity only really has value within scientific pursuits ( in my opinion), subjectivity is the king elsewhere
 
Not all worthy goals must be attainable, but there is value in being practical about one's limits.
 
Once upon a time, for a couple of weeks, the Wikipedia article on the parrotfish spent a couple of paragraphs in detailed description of the fish. And then at the end, someone had innocuously amended: "It's like a parrot but a fish."
that sentence stayed there for a couple of weeks and remains my favourite
 
@BESW I agree. Im not blatantly saying unachievable goals should be dropped (there are a lot where getting 90% there is way better than not there at all) but in the case of objectivity its a binary off/on state
 
I don't really find anything weird about an Internet encyclopedia website saying "Let's follow the general 'objectivity' standards of the encyclopedia projects of bygone days, but with a bit more multiculturalism."
 
2:25 PM
@JonathanHobbs Must... resist... starring...
 
if you cant get there you cant get there
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith i would hesitate to fully accept that claim. To make a ridiculously over simplified and exaggerated example. Some people think that racial cleansing is an acceptable goal. That is a social problem, so that would be a topic for subjectivity to be king... not the objective truth that murdering people is wrong.
 
@BESW I am glad you liked that as much as I do xD
 
@mc_hambone 1. I think racial cleansing is wrong 2. how do you define murder? 3. Murder is appropriate in certain contexts.
 
Hookay, now we're getting firmly into "take it to a side chat" territory.
 
2:27 PM
ie some people define all killing of other human beings as murder whereas for others murder has a very specific legal context
hahaha
 
@MC_Hambone It's the societal consensus that racial cleansing is wrong. You can be "subjective" while adhering to widespread consensus positions. The (alleged) "subjectivity" comes in excluding other positions because you think they are for crazy people.
@JoshuaAslanSmith That is not a reply to me. That is a reply to Hambone.
 
I dont want to persue that line of discussion, i am just saying objectivity is not only for science.... and with that I need to step away from the computer for a bit
 
I think objective/subjective is a semantic shell game.
 
We've been borderline for about an hour, and I don't pretend to be innocent myself.
 
I shall be back later... but unfortunately IRL things need my attention :-(
 
2:28 PM
But now we're getting into the real-life version of arguing alignment.
 
@MC_Hambone fare well!
 
@MC_Hambone ttfn
 
@AlexP yep was writing to reply to your post and then went to reply to his first and forgot to change the target
 
when I return we can talk about things like SPACESHIP ZERRROOOOOO!
 
@BESW We made someone bringing up an RPG book apologise for going off topic. We are definitely guilty of ultimate derailment.
 
2:29 PM
@mc_hambone Ive had other people in chat evoke a similar response for me. I thank you for being open to rational discourse and yes we should focus back in on RPGs.
so anyone here watch movies?
 
marginally RPG related (since I might use it as a painting desk). I bought one of these the other day: kickstarter.com/projects/499144433/…
 
I have a standing desk. I use the standing feature of it maybe 15 minutes a day.
 
the poster alone scares me
but Im not super into SE Asia films or asian films in general
 
@AlexP I stand about half the day at work. this one is for home
 
2:34 PM
@JoshuaAslanSmith It's... basically Sherlock Holmes as wuxia with kaiju.
 
Wish I could get a standup desk at work
haha that does sound enjoyable
subtitles + heavy action dont seem like a good mix though
 
The subtitles go pretty fast.
 
I just mention movies because Xmen DOFP trailer 2, the first trailer for Hercules Thracian wars, and the 2nd Edge of Tomorrow trailer all came out yesterday and the day before
 
The dramatic bits drag a little, and its special effects rip off movies from Godzilla to The Matrix to Troy, but it's also insanely creative. I kept saying "I've never seen that in a film!"
 
2:37 PM
Like, it overused CGI to an extent that was almost embarrassing, but they did it so enthusiastically and creatively that I loved it.
 
the spirit of it captured you and took you for a ride
 
Indeed.
And the final battle scene alone was worth it.
You remember that really awful sailors-vs-kraken battle at the end of the second Pirates of the Caribbean film?
 
man now Im trying to think of a similar movie experience for me recently
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith the guy from that KS has said he might do a desk topper as a stretch goal, keep an eye open for it
 
Imagine that, done right.
 
2:39 PM
@BESW yes actually wow talk about a movie letdown
I went to see that at a midnight release showing
and I was in military uniform since I had done ROTC then classes than Cru meeting and then ended up going with some cute girls who just happened to be in town for a missionary outreach project and were at the cru meeting (campus crusade for christ)
sorry flashback
 
With lines like "Prepare the toxic fish!" and a literal sea horse, some ship-to-ship interaction I'd never seen before, and general OMG.
 
prepare the toxic fish may be up there with release the kraken
its tough though because the titans remake had Liam Neeson saying release the kraken
 
@JoshuaAslanSmith Shortly thereafter: "We can't aim the toxic fish!"
There's also a Swamp Thing called Mr. Yuan.
Fair warning, it drags sometimes, especially at the start, and some of the fight scenes are kind of by-the-book but with a lot of CGI "coming at the camera" shots. And often the CGI is pretty bad.
And if you have trouble with subtitles, this is not a film for you.
It'd almost be better to watch it with them off if you have trouble reading subtitles really quickly. Lots of blink-and-you'll-miss-it stuff in the dialogue and the scenes.
 
Im normally great with subtitles its just that looks like the worst kind of film for subtitles
to be fair most of the subtitled films Ive watched are european dramas and thrillers
 
I did okay with 'em.
 
2:47 PM
the closest thing to this with subtitles Ive seen would be Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon but those fight scenes are very tame
 
I remember watching an anime many years ago - Lodoss War, maybe? - on a DVD that had both English subtitles and English dubbing. Unfortunately, it seemed that they were each translated by different people, possibly not with the same grasp of Japanese, and likely without actually having the film to watch as they were translating.
The two were wildly different, to the point that watching it with both subtitles and dubbing was hilarious.
 
We watch a not-small number of subtitled films, mostly Asian.
@lisardggY Heheh.
We did kind of wonder how much of the subtitles were translated liberally.
Though both the speech and the subtitles loved to say "Dondo."
[yawn] It's almost 1am.
Goodnights.
 
@BESW gnight
 
goodnight
 
3:03 PM
that is all
 
3:20 PM
@Zachiel - Dvati, Drag-Mag content. Really cool in concept, very difficult execution. Be warned.
 
 
3 hours later…
5:59 PM
@Lord_Gareth did you, at any point, say that Samurai is Cavalier sans mount?
 
6:41 PM
@Lord_Gareth my webmaster is thinking to implement some new races in our game. One is gonna be a LA +0 version of the genasi, one is gonna be a LA +1 mix between extaminaar and yuan-ti corrupt and one... well, he said casting two spells per round is too strong so no Dvati. Looks like I just need to get a new character to the level where he can cast Shapechange and be a chronotyryn if I want it. (and no, I want him to nerf Dvati to make it playable and not "high risk high reward" as it is now)
I think I'm gonna look for Dvati homebrew solutions
 
7:32 PM
Anyone here know a good way to prevent eye strain? I googled it and got a few answers and wondered if anyone had some other advice.
 
8:30 PM
@Metool I did.
 
8:46 PM
Not so.
 
9:07 PM
Heyo
Aaron, breaks.
Also the twilight app, and flux work well I hear
Is anyone on?
 
 
1 hour later…
10:31 PM
[wave]
 
10:42 PM
Hey there :D
 
Hi.
 
I was on a rpg convention this weekend :D
 
Ooer.
 
got myself a good fix.
Played two rounds of Shadowrun with a SR supporter on the payroll of the German publisher, and some other stuff
 
Shiny!
 
10:44 PM
Never would have thought that people playing rpg on cons know so little about rpg though. :p
Was my first convention, I was a bit worried before my first round that I wasn't really all that fresh on the rules, because the sessions were just 6 hours... ;)
I actually read up a bit on the rules that would be relevant to my characters
turned out that I was the most experienced player by far.
heh.
GM was pretty good though, so I had a blast.
 
Yeah, from what I've heard convention games are kind of free-for-alls.
 
Yeah, never knew. It was fun to play with complete strangers, but maaaan, there were some boneheads there.
mh
I just googled bonehead
maybe not what I meant
 
Stubborn, thick-skulled, stupid?
The neo-Nazi connotations aren't as widespread, in my experience.
 
actually, maybe what I meant. Why the heck does wikipedia say it is a term for right-wing extremists o.0
okay
I was really questioning my feeling for English there for a moment.
 
10:49 PM
then I looked it up on a dictionary and got what I thought what it was supposed to be.
aaanyway.
We had a six hour game, and two of my co-players argued two hours about how they want to do our heist.
two hours out of six
 
The general term isn't worthy of an encyclopedia entry, so looking in Wikipedia gets you the frige definition that is worth an entry.
 
@BESW That explains it pretty well.
 
@Murch .....
That... um... I would be inclined to question the GM if he let two players hijack the session like that.
 
I mean, Shadowrun tends to bring out that "what-if"-planning sessions, but that was really stupid
there were quite a few efforts to intervene, but it went right back into the "what-if" spiral
we ended up doing what was first proposed after about five minutes into the discussion
heh
it worked.
Except that one guy that had argued a lot (playing the mage) ran in before the meat shield and caught a headshot. Now that I think about it, it might have been intentional by the gamemaster that this particular roll was pretty good.
anyway, it was a magnificent weekend
 
Glad to hear it!
 
10:55 PM
We stayed over night at my friend's parents' vacation home – they heat with stoves and wood fire
so after turning in at 3 am, we got to to stir a fire. :D
 
Cool. I've never stayed in a house like that.
No house here has heating of any kind.
 
then on Sunday my friend's wife visited the convention with their infant, and she is sooo cute
the infant
^^
 
Hee.
 
Yar. Just re-read that and realized that it sounded all wrong. wry grin
Maybe I'll bring myself to have kids at some point after all. Who knows.
Just returned from the movies, the movie was pretty introspective. – Can you tell? ;)
And what's new for you?
 
Keeping busy, working on posters for the local theatre productions and a multilingual/cultural lit mag. Reviving/revising an old aborted D&D 3.5 campaign to use in Fate with a couple of players, now that I sometimes have more than one player.
 
11:04 PM
Oh yeah, you said that there was hardly any rpg players on your island
 
I could probably find a few more if I looked harder, but I'm cynical about finding any who want to play something less "traditional" than D&D 3.5.
Maybe some time, if I get more free time, I'll go to the FLGS and see what I can rustle up.
 
FLGS?
 
Friendly Local Gaming Store.
 
ah, I was unaware of that abbreviation. :)
 
FLGS, pronounced FL█G██S█
(i wish those black boxes didn't have a gap between them outside code markup)
 
11:09 PM
Heheh.
 
@BESW Don't give up. ;)
 
@Murch The other issue is that many of the gamers are military, so they don't stick around too long.
 
@JonathanHobbs [Tilts his head imagining curse words where the boxes are]
 
@BESW Ah right, you said something like that. – Yes, always starting new groups gets old quickly.
 
I do know of a 3.5 group with several people from a group I ran a few years ago, but it sounds more like "RPG as social activity," meaning it's more about the individuals and their out-of-game interactions.
Not something I would want to join or usurp.
For one thing, it seems to break up and then re-join every couple months.
 
11:14 PM
@BESW Too much drama, too little play. ;)
 
My new semi-regular second player is breaking off from that group.
He prefers Fate to 3.5, he's discovered.
And he's definitely not someone who enjoys real-life drama.
 
Yeah, but one player sounds really thin. – And, I've tried that previously!
 
With him I have two players!
And without him, well, @Trogdor and I have done "twosies" (one GM, one player) before. It takes some getting used to --no long campaigns, keep them down to three sessions maximum, for example-- but it works.
 
Ah, I see. I thought he was your player, but was also playing with the other group.
 
Ah, no. I've got one very regular player, and one who comes when he's free, and a couple who want to come but never can.
Even when I had up to a half-dozen "regular" players, Trogdor was the guy I knew I could count on to be there every single game, so I'm used to wrapping my plots around him.
 
11:21 PM
:D
 
I also had experience running just two players for a while, because he and his brother were my group for a year or more.
 
I had this one game a while back, where I had just build up the perhaps greatest plot-tension I had created so far, and then the player moved to another city.
 
@Murch Urgh.
When Trogdor's brother left island it was very sudden, so quick that he was gone before we could have even one game after we knew he was leaving.
 
:(
 
So I Skyped with him about ideas, and our next session had his PC get possessed by the ghost of the recurring villain he'd recently defeated for the second or third time.
It was 4e, and his PC had been a "lazy warlord" build that used his moves to grant everyone else extra moves; the villain had been a "necromancy and mind control are how I make friends" character. Combined together, he was a powerhouse of ordering the PCs to attack each other, manipulating them into fighting amongst themselves instead of fighting him.
When it became clear that despite this, the villain wasn't going to win, he killed the PC he was possessing and tried to escape.
Which led to another character performing an ad-hoc blank-check ritual in mid-combat: "Any power who is listening, if you imprison Davith the Wicked in eternal waking stasis until he forgets how to hate, I will dedicate myself to you!"
 
11:31 PM
@BESW AND??!
 
Answers the god of lies and trickery XD
 
Oh, there's no way that prayer goes unanswered. Somebody's gonna pick up the other end of that call.
Davith the Wicked was imprisoned in a block of ice, but the PC didn't find out who had picked up the check for some time.
(Not until I figured it out myself.)
I was tempted to make it some awful demon god, but that seemed frankly boring and predictable.
So instead he got picked up by the goddess of second chances--herself the daughter of Zehir, snake-god of assassins.
 
Nicely done. :D
 
It was perfect for the PC's character arc; Kamola Hava was a puffed-up, racist, nationalist bigot who was convinced that his half-orc empire was the best thing since pointy sticks.
 
Pointy sticks GOOD!
 
11:36 PM
Nusemnee, as the goddess of redemption, liked his prayer with the "until he forgets how to hate" part, and thought that Kamola might be salvageable.
 

Kamola the Prince-Maker

Aug 28 '13 at 10:46, 19 minutes total – 55 messages, 4 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked Nov 15 '13 at 17:39 by BESW

 
Thank you.
 
Gah, well my first gumshoe game session was a bit of a car crash
 
@Zachiel Reading
 
11:40 PM
That's about a different part of Kamola's story but it's worth bringing up
 
I was about to segue into it, so --yeah.
 
@BESW pretty much
 
maybe because I'm bad at building a world around the characters, maybe because my usual players like to smash opposition and fight battles more than thinking about how their characters could behave, I never get such situations.
@BESW perfect timing ;)
 
@Zachiel Kamola is all about that player. He designed the guy with major flaws and told me flat-out he was going to take the character on a wild ride of character development and see where it went.
 
@BESW Man, sounds like you'd be a guy to play with. ;)
 
11:44 PM
When I saw an opportunity I'd put a tough choice or temptation in front of him, but more often he just took advantage of whatever was going on.
The player was very gung-ho, so I didn't have to go out of my way to put the spotlight on Kamola. Kamola took the spotlight whenever he could.
(Which was nice, actually, because it meant there was never any point where everyone was just staring at each other blankly. You could always count on Kamola to push forward.)
But I wrapped the campaign's overarching plot around Trogdor's character because I was never sure if Kamola would even survive from session to session.
@Murch Aw, thanks. My players inspire me.
 
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