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4:00 AM
(<Lawyer Mode>instead you'll have to defend "mental anguish and suffering", which is WAY more expensive. Let the fuckers drown!</Lawyer Mode>)
 
@egid (I hope you know that I'm teasing about flagging it, just wanted to point out that you were missing the gist of my question.)
 
the liability side, yeah
but providing the crew with the knowledge that it has been tested and meets certain requirements
seems like that does answer your question
 
It really seems odd to me that it isn't required and some manufacturers choose to do it.
How does that knowledge help us as a crew though?
(I've thought about this a lot and haven't come up with a good answer, lol)
 
@lnafziger have you found examples of aircraft which are approved as such? Airliners I might assume?
 
@lnafziger it means that you may need to do less prep of the cabin prior to impact
the cessna-prop-the-doors routine for example
 
4:03 AM
@BretCopeland Actually my Falcon is approved
 
a ditching-certified aircraft may also have a specific procedure
@lnafziger do you have a ditching checklist?
that might confirm that part
 
@egid Yes, the Falcon does... The Lear doesn't.
 
:D
there you go
again, liability mostly i'm sure
updated
 
That still doesn't tell me why Falcon chose to certify it and Learjet didn't.
Just that if they certify it that it probably requires a procedure.
 
Dassault can blame the crew when nobody gets out of a ditched Falcon
 
4:04 AM
lmao
maybe
 
while Bombardier would be at fault for not certifying the airplane
I'm serious!
they can claim that it was pilot error
as opposed to Bombardier, who were lazy or incomplete in their testing/engineering/etc
i can imagine the attorneys now
 
I'm guessing that they did a cost-benefit-analysis and figured out that it would cost more to certify it than the potential liability. Either that or they tried and the performance was so bad that they didn't want to publish it.
brb
 
Anonymous
speaking of cost-benefit analysis
 
Anonymous
remember when ford decided that saving lives wasn't as valuable as saving money by not fortifying their gas tanks?
 
Wow, Falk is really taking my comments on his answer very personally.
Hard to read tone in text. He probably read my statements with a much harsher tone than I intended.
 
Anonymous
4:18 AM
@BretCopeland you are too harsh sometimes
 
@PatoSáinz shut up
 
Anonymous
@BretCopeland lol
 
@PatoSáinz Yeah, not a very popular decision, but it was a sound business decision at the time (if you only consider money)
I just thought of another possible reason for the ditching certification.
I wonder if it has something to do with the range of the aircraft. I.e. the Falcon was designed for oceanic flights, but you don't see a lot of Learjets making oceanic crossings....
 
@BretCopeland he's also German, so there may be a language thing
 
@egid how do you know that?
 
4:23 AM
@BretCopeland I think I come across like that a lot. That's why you see me editing a lot :$
 
@BretCopeland -1, you forgot to call him a bastard :-)
 
ignoring the thing the other night, I mean generally
 
@voretaq7 damn it. I'll never make it as a moderator.
 
Y'all can't be nice to @PatoSáinz, he hangs out in the comms room and we have to make sure his skin stays thick enough to handle that abuse :-)
also, digital AFM updated. Most painful part: Updating my stupid Excel (well, Numbers) W&B worksheet that produces a usable graph.
 
I almost made a comment on another post of his but decided not to because I commented on his answer that was discussed in meta and ended up flagging his answer (and it got deleted). Didn't want to chase him off, lol.
 
4:26 AM
He seems like a bright guy - I keep trying to encourage more detail in his answers 'cuz I think they're generally good but need to give more explanation
 
@voretaq7 yeah, I agree. I may have driven him off for good now... we'll see.
 
@BretCopeland In one of his comments he mentioned he's in Germany & mainly knows the german regs
 
@voretaq7 ah. He seems to live in the US now.
 
@BretCopeland nah, germans are tough - 'least the ones from Lufthansa were.
we called them the Angry Flying Germans (even though the ones I had to deal with were always quite pleasant)
 
I love the Germans. Best kisser I ever met was German.... mmmm.... kind of miss her.
what were we talking about?
 
4:28 AM
@BretCopeland hmmm, German structure and efficiency applied to making out... I could get behind that...
 
Anonymous
@voretaq7 wot
 
when I met my gf she was living with 2 German girls... accidentally saw one having a bath, and the other was just pissed talking to us naked... good times
lol
 
Anonymous
@voretaq7 FYI I used to be on IRC... and no, not the civilised, freenode IRC, rather EFnet free-for-all assault and troll networks
 
@DannyBeckett I'll never get used to the British usage of the word pissed.
 
4:31 AM
@PatoSáinz ...what was your nick and how long ago was this :-)
 
Anonymous
(hope you read that)
 
@PatoSáinz I'm a mod, I can read redacted history on chat.
NOBODY'S SHAME IS SAFE!
 
Anonymous
lol
 
Anonymous
@voretaq7 I used a nick I wouldn't ever disclose because of dox
 
@BretCopeland he's mentioned it a few times
 
4:31 AM
@BretCopeland bladdered is a particularly Liverpudlian colloquialism if you'd prefer that? :D
 
Anonymous
and heh i started ircing in 2010, then i started lurking to know the whole history from the 90s
 
@DannyBeckett ...one would think "bladdered" would have been the stage immediately preceding "pissed".
 
@DannyBeckett well, we don't have an American use for that word (that I'm aware of), so have at it!
 
Anonymous
@voretaq7 why were you interested?
 
4:33 AM
@PatoSáinz because if you were on EFNet during the chaotic 90s and were any sort of regular presence there's a good chance I knew you, or know someone who knew you.
and no, my nick shall not be disclosed. It was before I became voretaq7.
 
Anonymous
lol
 
Anonymous
@voretaq7 I started IRCing in, yes, i may be ashamed, uber1337 Anonymous shit
 
Anonymous
then I migrated to the more trollish encyclopedia dramatica
 
Anonymous
and i finished being with the gay nig association of america
 
Anonymous
so yea i used a nick that i wouldn't link with my name for nothing in the world
 
Anonymous
4:35 AM
for both google and my ol' havoc-ensuing pals
 
@PatoSáinz they're still around? I thought they died out when Slashdot became wholly irrelevant on the internet?
 
Anonymous
@voretaq7 the people are still around, but now it's more disorganised
 
Anonymous
meaning they still wreak havoc but not under the gnaa name
 
@PatoSáinz so's the internet.
 
And now Falk just asked an exact duplicate... poor guy
 
Anonymous
4:36 AM
i think almost the last "official" gnaa project was linux for nigs
 
Anonymous
@lnafziger :(
 
@lnafziger oh man, rough day.
He just needs to come into chat and sort everything out. Remember when we all hated @abelenky? He turned out to be alright, haha.
 
Anonymous
We all still hate @abelenky
 
@PatoSáinz shhhhhh
 
Anonymous
and we all hate @BretCopeland too, he's too rough
2
 
4:39 AM
@BretCopeland funny, I just thought that, commented saying so, then read this
great minds I guess ;)
 
@PatoSáinz you're just saying that because he superglued your phone...
 
Anonymous
@voretaq7 he did what?!
 
@PatoSáinz I'm pinning that in the room.
 
Hey, can someone tell me where the definition of what a "transport category aircraft" is? I'm trying to add it to the tag wiki for FAR Part 25 and thought that it would be easy to find....
 
@lnafziger ...check in FAR 1? :-)
(actually idunno if it's in there... <looks>)
 
4:41 AM
I looked there already
 
Anonymous
lol
 
Like I said, I thought that it would be easy to find, lol
 
@lnafziger federal laws are supposed to be impossible to interpret :P
faa.gov/aircraft/air_cert/design_approvals/transport seems as close to authoritative as I can find
> Transport airplanes are airplanes for which a type certificate is applied for under part 21 in the transport category and that meet the transport category airworthiness requirements. Multi-engine airplanes with more than 19 seats or a maximum takeoff weight greater than 19,000 lb must be certificated in the transport category.
so it's transport category if you say it is, and it must be transport category if it's multi-engine and meets either of the other 2 conditions
 
ask that as a question :p
 
<envisions certificating a Cessna 152 clone as Transport Category - which that seems to imply you could do - and dies of laughter>
 
4:46 AM
I just found that same page...
yup
 
that's the "backstab him with a ballista" of the FARs for the day
"There's gotta be a rule against this...."
 
Thanks @voretaq7
Odd that we can't find an actual FAR that defines it though when it is references all over them.
 
4 mins ago, by voretaq7
@lnafziger federal laws are supposed to be impossible to interpret :P
 
why is nowhere gusting, just as I want to test gusts
 
@voretaq7 Haha, yup
!!metar kpbi
 
4:50 AM
!!metar KPBI
 
@voretaq7 PBI/KPBI: SPECI KPBI 100437Z 09020G29KT 1/2SM +RA SCT007 BKN016CB OVC035 22/19 A3019 RMK AO2 PK WND 08029/0429 CB OHD-ALQDS MOV N P0063 RVRNO $
@lnafziger PBI/KPBI: SPECI KPBI 100437Z 09020G29KT 1/2SM +RA SCT007 BKN016CB OVC035 22/19 A3019 RMK AO2 PK WND 08029/0429 CB OHD-ALQDS MOV N P0063 RVRNO $
 
there ya go, gusts.
 
Because you weren't looking in florida these days :p
 
lmao, that was great @voretaq7
!!weather kpbi
 
@lnafziger PBI/KPBI: Palm Beach International Airport • Observed: 14 mins ago • Wind: 90°/E @ 20kts; gusts @ 29kts • Visibility: 0.5mi/0.8km • Clouds: Scattered @ 700ft; Broken @ 1,600ft; Overcast @ 3,500ft • Temperature: 22.0°C/72°F • Dewpoint: 19.0°C/66°F • Pressure: 30.19" Hg/1,022mb • Conditions: LIFR
 
Anonymous
4:51 AM
good night everyone
 
@DannyBeckett Ask and ye shall receive
Cya @PatoSáinz!
 
@PatoSáinz seeya
@lnafziger lol, I literally tried about 6 airports
it works :)
 
Anonymous
thanks
 
Anonymous
btw i just hit 311 rep
 
@DannyBeckett Follow the fronts :)
 
Anonymous
4:52 AM
this "having privileges" thing feels weird
 
Anonymous
specially since i was so accustomed to being in the comms room and root access but being unable to even downvote an answer
 
Anonymous
or comment
 
Anonymous
or upvote
 
@DannyBeckett I tried 2, but we have weather here near me so I figured it would be gusting close.
 
tried AMS, LPL, MIA, JFK, SFO
 
Anonymous
4:53 AM
@voretaq7 i lost my "regular in chat but does nothing in site" title :(
 
any other gusty airports to test with?
@voretaq7 aka: where do I find that? ninja
 
Anonymous
!!weather SCTB
 
@PatoSáinz No METAR data could be found within the last 24 hours for SCTB! Check you typed the correct 3-letter IATA or 4-letter ICAO airport code.
 
Anonymous
>:(
 
Anonymous
!!weather SCEL
 
4:54 AM
@PatoSáinz SCL/SCEL: Comodoro Arturo Merino Benítez International Airport • Observed: 55 mins ago • Wind: 140°/SE @ 4kts • Visibility: 6.21mi/9.99km • Clouds: Ceiling & visibility ok • Temperature: 20.0°C/68°F • Dewpoint: 5.0°C/41°F • Pressure: 29.94" Hg/1,014mb • Conditions: VFR
 
lol I thought you were going @PatoSáinz
 
Anonymous
@DannyBeckett just checking it out :p
 
Anonymous
now i'm off
 
j/k ;)
 
Anonymous
lol
 
@voretaq7 nice! thanks!!
 
which has winds and isobars
but if I'm just looking for something windy I'd find a front line and look for airports near it :)
 
too bad my US geography sucks
lol
Google Maps, here I come :p
 
you can also come pretty close by looking for red radar returns on a doppler map
 
Regarding the recent messages: yea, im german, sorry for the bad spelling :D right now I'm living in Florida to do some advanced training - and improve my writing... Don't take it to serious Bret, may be some kind of language problems or just some different views.
 
5:00 AM
@Falk your spelling is no worse than the average American's. (Not that that's a particular compliment - probably better to say your spelling is better than the average American's :-)
 
@Falk What part of Florida?
 
@Falk Hey! Glad you came to the chat room!
 
@egid Haha, I just realized that you linked your "Call the FSDO" comment to the Meta question. Priceless!
(I saw the reference right away, but didn't realize that you linked it. :) )
 
@lnafziger haha, that's great
btw, Skip Miller, the guy who wrote the Call your FSDO answer, is the father of one of our community managers at SE.
 
I'm glad to know where ut hides now. Thank you @DannyBeckett ! Treasure cost - vero
 
5:12 AM
you mean where we all hide out? no problem
 
@Falk Cool, I live in Boynton Beach
@Falk Which rating are you working on?
 
I've just finished up with all the familiarisation stuff and now I'm looking foreward to my first multi engine IR FNPT lesson tomorrow
Honestly I've to as nr google where boynton beach is
Oh, I did some touch and goes in Boca a few day's ago :D
 
@Falk It is very close to Boca.
@Falk And cool, have fun tomorrow!
Okay, good night all. I get to fly somewhere cold tomorrow. :-)
 
night mate!
 
Night! Have a good trip.
!!weather KBFI
 
5:27 AM
Colder than a room full of simulators?? :D thx, good night
 
Aww, no wx. Hi, Falk!
 
@egid @Otto no like you.
 
Oh the bot just went down for something
see other room
 
Otto can be a jerk sometimes :(
 
@DannyBeckett went down for more beer?
 
5:28 AM
it's up now
!!tell egid weather kbfi
 
@egid BFI/KBFI: Boeing Field King County International Airport • Observed: 36 mins ago • Wind: 190°/S @ 9kts; gusts @ 19kts • Visibility: 10.0mi/16.09km • Clouds: Broken @ 1,900ft • Temperature: 10.0°C/50°F • Dewpoint: 6.1°C/43°F • Pressure: 29.76" Hg/1,008mb • Conditions: MVFR
 
@DannyBeckett Use the emergency manual inflation tube?
 
There, gusts!
 
@voretaq7 I was gonna say, !!reinflate should be a command to bring him back from near death.
Or, just for when he's feeling sad.
or lonely
 
@BretCopeland went down just for a reboot - only takes about 30 secs - this happens every time I have to compile - this is just the only time I've been caught compiling :p
 
5:31 AM
@DannyBeckett I'm unimpressed.
 
I tried running 2 instances
it failed miserably
 
Dude, Otto is a player in the movie.
 
both bots were in both rooms, when they should've been in 1 each
 
Gusts?? Gusts start where the manual ends ;)
 
@DannyBeckett you mean, THE BOTS ARE OUT OF CONTROL????!!!!!???!
 
5:32 AM
@voretaq7 lmfao!!
 
@BretCopeland I warned you all these bots were a bad idea...
 
@DannyBeckett By the way, "Wind: 190 (S) @ 9kts gusting to 19kts" might be a better format
 
@voretaq7 yeah, but no one listens to the grouchy old men complaining about progress... how were we to know? HOW WERE WE TO KNOW?
 
first they're giving you weather information, then your A380 mutinies and says "No, I'm not letting you do that", then your predator drones start ganging up and taking practice strafing runs at the operators' trailers....
next thing you know the governator is dragging you off saying "Come with me if you want to live!"
2
 
@BretCopeland they were out of control when there were 2 of them. I think now I killed 1, his buddy calmed down
 
5:37 AM
@DannyBeckett I was watching Who Framed Roger Rabbit the other night with my girlfriend (because we're 8 years old) and the scene where Christopher Lloyd kills the toon shoe is so sad. For some reason, that's what that reminded me of.
 
@SteveV. That answer brought to you courtesy of having a metric asstonne of family and friends serving in the USMC.
 
@voretaq7 - Awesome!
 
Also from what I've been told that stuff is an absolute pain to land on when it rains because mud squelches up through the holes and you can't stop for shit. Random bonus fact :)
 
Although I'm happy about the Bogue Field answer, I'm really interested in seeing what meta makes of the related question.
 
5:45 AM
(that might not be the only PSP runway in the US, but it's the only one I know of)
 
2
Q: Should I be allowed to ask an identify-this-airport question?

Steve V.On Arqade, where I hail from, identify-this-game questions have a special place in moderator's hearts. The same place that pilots have when they hear members of news media try to speak intelligently about aviation, or people talking really slow on 121.8. The question I asked just now, There's a...

 
@SteveV. Definitely a gray area -- "identify this field <insert photo here>" or "Way back before the war there used to be an airport around <insert location here> - what was it and is it still there?" don't seem like good questions. "Where can I find an airport with <X> type of surface?" or "Where can I go to practice <X> type of approach (seeking broad answers, like naval air stations for a PAR)?" are a little more fuzzy
 
It's the only lighted PSP runway I've ever heard of, it even offers an ALS
 
I mean if you wanted to practice landing on PSP for some strange demented reason (maybe you're going to Guam to fly and the field there is PSP so you want practice?) I think you'd have to call up Bogue and beg/plead for them to allow it
@Falk AFAIK it's the only PSP runway in the US at an active field
 
@voretaq7 I don't know how much you hang around Arqade but there were fights for months about identify-this-game. I'm not saying we need (or are going) to solve it now, but sooner or later it might come up.
 
5:54 AM
the satellite photos are cool - pretty much every in-use surface seems to be PSP
HAH - and you can totally see the arresting gear too :)
 
There used to be some PSP runways in Europe but they where never equipped like this and only used for light sports, thats why I wonder
 
bot will be down for 10 mins while I get !!taf working
 
@Falk I really don't think we have any (public) fields that have PSP surfaces
I can't imagine anyone would want to maintain one :)
 
We don't have them anymore either, I guess in earlier times it was a cheap way to build a better than grass runway (talking about civil fields) today it would be way expensive, they are even people steeling this old no longer used metal plates from the airfields.
 
6:10 AM
does this look right? @voretaq7
!!taf mia
 
@DannyBeckett MIA/KMIA: KMIA 100601Z 1006/1106 12009KT P6SM VCSH FEW020 BKN070 OVC250 FM101400 12009KT P6SM SCT025 BKN050
 
...seeing it on one line is odd
!!taf KJFK
 
@voretaq7 JFK/KJFK: KJFK 100520Z 1006/1112 13005KT P6SM SCT150 BKN250 FM100700 15005KT P6SM SCT035 OVC070 FM101400 16006KT P6SM SCT015 BKN025 TEMPO 1015/1019 5SM -RA OVC015 FM101900 18007KT 6SM BR SCT015 BKN025 FM110600 16004KT 3SM -RA BR BKN007 OVC015 FM110900 14006KT 1SM -RA BR OVC004
 
looks correct though
 
6:12 AM
ok great :)
will add a !!forecast command too soon
 
Might be worth eliminating the link and just showing the raw TAF with newlines
 
see other room
 
Absolutely, is there any way to create a newvline just ahead of tempo bcmg or fm?
 
working on it now @Falk :)
 
6:57 AM
 
@Falk this is done now :)
!!taf jfk
 
KJFK 100704Z 1007/1112 15005KT P6SM SCT025 OVC070
FM101400 16006KT P6SM SCT015 BKN025
TEMPO 1015/1019 5SM -RA OVC015
FM101900 18007KT 6SM BR SCT015 BKN025
FM110600 16004KT 3SM -RA BR BKN007 OVC015
FM110900 14006KT 1SM -RA BR OVC004
 
7:44 AM

 Groom Lake

You're probably looking for The Hangar; this is a separate roo...
@voretaq7 @BretCopeland
 
 
5 hours later…
12:14 PM
I thought I was young. Then @Undo went and stripped me of my innocence, turning me into a evil lightning kitty unicorn...
 
12:28 PM
posted on January 06, 2014

All this and more on the Uncontrolled Airspace General Aviation Podcast. Recorded December 23, 2013. Alt titles: "Busy Symbology", "Cats & Dogs Sleeping Together", "Faster Than Spit"

 
Anonymous
god morning
 
1:49 PM
posted on January 10, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

10 January 1956: First Lieutenant Barty Ray Brooks, United States Air Force Reserve, a pilot assigned to the 1708th Ferrying Wing, Detachment 12, at Kelly Air Force Base, Texas, along with two other pilots from the same unit, Captain Rusty Wilson and Lieutenant Crawford Shockley, picked up three brand new F-100C Super Sabre fighters at […] The post 10 January 1956 appeared first on This D

 
2:20 PM
@DannyBeckett Hey there
You're seeing parseMessage invalid probably because messages don't match the invocation pattern. I'm trying to dig in the transcript to see where you've been having problems, care to point something specific?
 
2:39 PM
posted on January 10, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

10 January 1964: This Boeing B-52H Stratofortress, serial number 61-023, flown by Boeing test pilot Charles F. (“Chuck”) Fisher, was conducting structural testing in turbulence near East Spanish Peak, Colorado. The other crew members were pilots Richard V. Curry and Leo Coer, and navigator James Pittman. Dick Curry was flying the airplane and Chuck Fisher, the […] The post 10

posted on January 10, 2014 by Bryan Swopes

10 January 1966: The prototype Bell Model 206A JetRanger, N8560F, serial number 1, made its first flight at Hurst, Texas. This aircraft would be in production for almost 45 years. The last JetRanger, Bell 206B-3 serial number 4690, was delivered in December 2010 and production came to an end. The JetRanger is a 5-place, single-engine light […] The post 10 January 1966 appeared first on Th

 
3:09 PM
<_<
>_>
....::torments Otto::
!!weather KLGA
 
LGA/KLGA: La Guardia Airport • Observed: 10 mins ago • Wind: 50°/NE @ 7kts • Visibility: 5.0mi/8.05km • Clouds: Overcast @ 2,200ft • Temperature: -1.0°C/30°F • Dewpoint: -4.0°C/25°F • Pressure: 30.50" Hg/1,033mb • Conditions: MVFR
 
aw, he doesn't decode precipitation? or is -FZRAPL confusing him?
 
3:39 PM
Its got me too.... I understand -FZRA... but I'm not finding a decode for PL?
 
3:50 PM
@abelenky PL I think is ice pellets (replaced "IP")
 
Ah.
 
roe
4:19 PM
!!wiki Metar
yeah, ice pellets
 
METAR is a format for reporting weather information. A METAR weather report is predominantly used by pilots in fulfillment of a part of a pre-flight weather briefing, and by meteorologists, who use aggregated METAR information to assist in weather forecasting. Raw METAR is the most popular format in the world for the transmission of observational weather data. It is highly standardized through the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), which allows it to be understood throughout most of the world. Origin METARs typically come from airports or permanent weather observation stat...
 
every so often NY gets "interesting" weather
(well ice pellets are interesting to us. And funnel clouds, but mostly in Brooklyn :-)
 
roe
Bronx must be seeing funnel clouds all the time, isn't that how those balls keep carrying out of the new yankee stadium..? :)
 
@roe that's steroids :)
 
roe
:D
 
4:32 PM
<hides from hordes of enraged Yankees fans>
 
roe
@voretaq7; you're not a baseball fan i take it? or just not yankees?
 
@roe I'm a Mets fan
my team plays in Shitty Field (Worst. Stadium. EVER.)
 
roe
@voretaq7 Ah cool. Usually, I suppose you get a joke like "What, dont like winning?" right about now, but I'm a Toronto guy, so I won't go there.. :) Don't know much about the mets to be honest, dropped off my radar when Pedro Martinez left.
 
@roe we swept the Yankees in the last subway series. As I'm so fond of pointing out to Yankees fans: "What does it say that the worst team in my league swept the best team in your league?"
(they usually grind their teeth and curse at me after that)
 
roe
;)
 
4:45 PM
ok, I think that's enough of an editing spree reformatting questions for today :-)
it would be bad to get the Strunk & White badge when the site isn't even a month old :P
 
:) Good work!
 
@abelenky aviation.stackexchange.com/users?tab=editors . . . I'm almost halfway there so... (typos and formatting annoy the everloving kittens out of me :P)
Also, congrats @lnafziger on being the first one over the 3000 rep bar! :)
6
 
stupid 200 rep a day cap
23 upvotes not counted!
:D
 
Anonymous
5:03 PM
@egid alright if you don't want that i can just downvote you
 
Anonymous
also @lnafziger 's rep is not fair because he's a mod and we all know whose dick is being sucked here
 
?
 
Anonymous
also sup @Zirak do you think perl is the best language ever and epically stomps javascript?
 
Anonymous
@egid you've got a 200 rep cap
 
Anonymous
i can downvote you so you are again below
 
Anonymous
5:05 PM
:)
 
that's... that's not what i was referring to
 
@PatoSáinz Inafziger is not a mod.
 
Anonymous
@called2voyage he's about to become one
 
Anonymous
pro tempore
 
Could be. Unless you're on the inside track with the community managers you don't know who they'll pick.
 
5:06 PM
@called2voyage 1000 more rep points and he may as well be :-)
 
@voretaq7 That much is true.
 
i'm a little confused
 
@called2voyage Modships are entirely decided by the quality of your bribes. I hear the community team still likes pie.
 
Anonymous
@called2voyage I'm @BretCopeland's roomie
 
@voretaq7 I will not reveal my secrets.
 
5:07 PM
@called2voyage THE CAKE IS A PIE!
 
Anonymous
:o
 
@PatoSáinz Well in that case, I defer to your superior knowledge.
 
Hi all. I just started a tag description for safety, and ran into the question of safety vs. security. Do you guys consider them to be genuinely separate topics or not?
 
Anonymous
In so far i've seen that the Photography SE community is very friendly
 
Anonymous
hell yes they are
 
Anonymous
5:08 PM
@Pondlife i think they are
 
Anonymous
i also thought the same before... but i was too lazy to do it
 
gah... dammit google images!
 
I was about to say "why is it so tiny"
 
I don't even have inside knowledge about who the mods will be. If I had to guess, the community managers haven't even thought about it since the meta post went up.
 
that's better.
 
5:10 PM
@voretaq7 very cool
 
Anonymous
@Pondlife safety would be "should I fly with my windshield frosted?"
 
looks tasty
@BretCopeland That's my intuition too.
 
Anonymous
security would be "will the TSA stop me if i declare in my flightplan i want to go through the empire state?" @Pondlife
 
@Pondlife Safety & Security are absolutely separate topics
 
They'll probably be back at it next week.
 
5:11 PM
The pies inside that cake are (top to bottom) Apple, Cherry, and Pumpkin BTW.
and now I want one :(
 
Anonymous
@voretaq7 i've found photography.se's community to be very friendly
 
Anonymous
unlike SF
 
@egid: I've definitely had that on StackOverflow.... I've had some answers get massive upvotes... and lose a lot to the cap.
 
@Pondlife Compare safety and security.
 
Anonymous
unlike Aviation.SE (because we've got rude boy @BretCopeland here)
 
5:13 PM
@voretaq7 me too
 
@PatoSáinz BRB, subscribing you to all the nasty porn lists.... You like walruses, right? :)
 
@voretaq7 He may have meant Science Fiction, not Server Fault.
 
Well, my initial thought was that they're separate: safety is about accidents, security is about deliberate attacks. However, security is there to improve safety (whether or not you agree it actually does is a different issue), so it's arguably a subset. But I think you've all confirmed my first instinct, so I'll go with that :-)
 
Anonymous
@voretaq7 damn it Server Fault
 
Anonymous
@called2voyage ;)
 
5:14 PM
@PatoSáinz I've been told I'm perceptive.
 
@called2voyage Meh, doesn't matter. I haven't made any users cry today (hell I was GENUINELY HELPFUL to a user yesterday! What is WRONG with me?!)
 
@voretaq7 Your mod card has been revoked.
;)
 
Anonymous
@voretaq7 you are not an SFer anymore
 
@Pondlife Security exists to counter a threat - safety is more a cultural & procedural thing
 
I wonder how many users I've made cry.... (much more on StackOverflow)
 
Anonymous
5:15 PM
@abelenky eww SO
 
@called2voyage ...that means I don't have to look at /review anymore right? <HAPPY DANCE>
 
@voretaq7 No need in reviewing stuff if you're gonna be so damn HELPFUL.
 
<hangs head in shame> I actually answered a question I found in the SF review queue today...
 
@lnafziger is is the @JonSkeet of aviation. :)
 
@abelenky at what point does he start earning 200 rep/day simply from existing answers? :)
 
5:18 PM
LOL.... totally.
 
@voretaq7 Yes, that's exactly the distinction I was imagining. I think I got slightly distracted by the case of air accidents. Usually they're a safety issue but if the cause was malicious then security comes into play. Anyway, SE is all about continuous improvement so it's better to have something simple out there that seems to make sense and if someone else can express it better that's great :-)
 
5:34 PM
@Pondlife whenever anyone starts harping about how we need security and zomg they'll blow up planes and all that I ask them to take the total number of hijackings, bombings, and terrorist incidents, and divide by the total number of "air disasters" (but then I get the "magic rock that keeps tigers away" argument and usually give up in frustration...)
 
@voretaq7 I know exactly what you mean, but there are psychological reasons why people fear 'dramatic' incidents even if the measurable risk is small and political ones why laws are rarely scrapped or reduced. So I'm not holding my breath waiting for any changes, unfortunately.
 
@Pondlife TL;DR: People are STUPID.
:-)
 
@voretaq7 That's a handy summary with a lot of other applications... ;-)
 
5:50 PM
at the risk of veering off into a political discussion:
We just saw four or more people collude and plot to shut down a major interstate transportation bridge. It seems to me that because they're white and politically connected, they're pleading the fifth and testifying before committees.

If they were brown and Muslim, they'd be in GitMo, getting waterboarded.
Where is DHS and TSA in the GW Bridge shutdown??
 
@abelenky "At the risk of veering off" I think you veered off, went through the crash barrier and are now sitting in the ditch...
 
that actually seems less political and more sociological ;)
 
Yeah, well, when talking about issues of security and safety, this one seems to illustrate how we're afraid of "terrorist" attacks, but don't even know exactly what that means.
 
@abelenky "If the government does it it can't possibly be a terrorist action."
 
LOL.... sure.
 
5:59 PM
also <insert rant about our ridiculous airport badges that you literally submit your own photo for here>
 
security != security theater
 
I wish my Pilot's license had a photo on it...
It annoys me that I can use my license to fly a plane... but its not valid to board a plane as a passenger.
 
@abelenky your license turns into a pumpkin if you don't have suitable photo ID anyway. Thanks Congress!
 
Q: Is your congressman a member of the General Aviation Caucus?
https://www.aopa.org/Advocacy/GA-Caucus.aspx
 
@SteveV. Our airport badges are a marginal improvement over the old gate locks (half of which were set to 1200). Of course the gate locks are MAGNETIC LOCKS, and the local power company is pretty shit about keeping the lights on, so if we're without power for any kind of extended period Airport Ops has to go around and chain all the gates shut....
@abelenky Over half the house of representatives are now members of the GA caucus. Makes me wonder how many actually give a shit about GA versus just wanting to appear to give a shit so they can scrape up more votes come election time...
(But the answer is "Yes for the House, and none of the NY senators are.")
 
6:37 PM
ooh, the AATD device question is great
 
posted on January 10, 2014

A C210 lands on one wheel… More on the pending change to 3rd Class medical requirements… And, an airline flight Tupper wishes he'd been on, kinda. All this and more on the Uncontrolled Airspace General Aviation Podcast. Recorded December 30, 2013.

 
6:55 PM
this AATD thing is really great actually
it does sorta look like the AC contradicts 61.57, but I think 61.57 was recently updated and the AC may now be outdated
 

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