Root Access - 2013-12-09 (page 2 of 3)

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5:00 PM

I would have done better right off the bat, but it would have taken me more time to do things right, and I simply didn't have enough time available until the deadline, which was basically "something that meets the requirements by first thing this morning" heh

Anonymous

user image

Anonymous

@allquixotic i like their blue brothers, they are the best

!!tell 12554090 no

ChatBot John Cavil

user image

Anonymous

yes

5:12 PM

Anyone got experience with ownCloud? For setting it up/

5:34 PM

SO in the news

@allquixotic Which phone are you using now?

@allquixotic yea, it only got posted twice in a row over in the comms room, with amusingly different reactions :P

first one here with a rather heated argument, second one here with more 'cool' reactions :P

@allquixotic Yay, I'm in the upper west side! (ID 50544)

@Bob Droid Maxx

also, they need to add SU

@allquixotic Any plans to go Moto X?

@Bob why would I downgrade to the Moto X?

Anonymous

5:38 PM

I should buy the Moto G

Anonymous

it's better than my ol' trustable BB Torch

@allquixotic hm?

@Bob the Droid Maxx and the Moto X have the same SoC and camera and extremely similar software, but the Droid Maxx has a larger battery

the Moto X is strictly a downgrade for me

@allquixotic ah.

it contains absolutely no improvements

(note: the Droid Maxx is not the Razr Maxx or the Razr Maxx HD)

awful product naming on Moto's part

5:39 PM

has no idea about Motorola phones

the only thing I could get with a Moto X that I wouldn't get with the Droid Maxx, is (1) it's assembled in the USA whereas the Droid Maxx is assembled in China; and (2) you can customize the color of the chassis of the Moto X, but not the Droid Maxx / Ultra

@Bob it's pretty simple really

@allquixotic yea, looks like (physically) smaller screen too

Anonymous

@allquixotic get an iphone

!!tell 12554779 no

ChatBot John Cavil

user image

5:41 PM

(probably should have left that for @allquixotic to reply... bleh)

current gen: Moto X (all carriers, customizable colors); Moto G (cheap variant of Moto X, slightly cut-down); Droid Ultra (Verizon-only, slightly better battery than Moto X, not customizable); Droid Maxx (Verizon-only, much larger battery than Moto X, not customizable); Droid Mini (Verizon-only, smaller form factor and battery than Moto X or the other current-gen phones)

previous gen: Droid Razr HD and Droid Razr Maxx HD, only difference being Maxx == bigger battery -- all Verizon-only (I think AT&T too, actually)

that's Moto in a nutshell, unless you go back into the older phones

@PatoSáinz I'm gonna side with Cavil and Bob on this one -- NO -- seriously, f* Apple

I'm way past "the iPhone is an inferior, overpriced product" into the "f* Apple" crowd... I used to just dislike their product because it's a bad product; now I actively dislike the company

Anonymous

@allquixotic why?

@allquixotic oh, Verizon-only? ah..

Anonymous

I think Apple products are mediocre, at least

Anonymous

but i don't have such a visceral response, jeez

5:45 PM

@PatoSáinz well, the "walled garden everything and DRM everything and lock down everything" approach really turned me off to Apple -- I didn't dislike them much when they were just about iPods and Macs because they weren't deliberately trying to divide people and prevent people from getting shit done

Anonymous

@allquixotic hence mediocre

now their sole goal in life is to sell nonsense products that can't do this and can't do that and it's illegal to make them do what you want them to do, and the sole purpose of releasing the product is to make ridiculous amounts of money selling sub-standard parts that don't even work

they're worse than mediocre; they're flat out limited

my phone is a general purpose computing device, not an appliance that only has the switches and knobs that Apple chooses, in their infinite wisdom, to put on it.

that is where I fundamentally disagree with them, and that is why I fundamentally dislike them

because they're pushing that agenda of "your phone is an appliance, and it will do exactly and precisely what WE, in our infinite wisdom of we-know-better-than-you, will let it do, and anything else you couldn't possibly need, and if you think you need it, you're wrong"

Anonymous

@allquixotic same here, i just don't care that much (but i do care a lot)

I hate people and companies that try to push that on people when the device itself does not have to be inherently limited like that

for a washing machine I can totally understand these limitations, because making it more flexible (to wash and dry, say, for example) would require adding more complexity

but Apple is deliberately taking a device that is, by design, much more flexible than the end product, and removing flexibility

that'd be like taking a washing machine capable of holding X amount of clothes and making a steel wall halfway down the container and preventing you from putting clothes in the bottom half

Anonymous

@allquixotic have you considered working at the EFF?

5:49 PM

@PatoSáinz lol. I rather like the EFF, but no I haven't considered working there

I donate to them regularly though

Anonymous

nice, then you should see:

@allquixotic I'm having similar issues with Windows Phone :(

Anonymous

archive.org/donate

Anonymous

they are desperate

Anonymous

@Bob at least apple has a huge ecosytem of apps, windows phone, mehh

5:50 PM

@PatoSáinz the page isn't even loading :(

Anonymous

$189,449
donated of $1,000,000 goal
23
days to go

@PatoSáinz ...actually, I care less about that than you'd think

Anonymous

@Bob but i like the phone as a whole, i think that the huge-ass camera on a lumia is actually a reason to switch

Anonymous

but my preferred OS is cyanogenmod by far

if I really needed an app in Windows, I could actually develop one myself. Coming from C#, I'm at least somewhat familiar with the environment, and MS has been pretty good with dev support.

Fuck Obj-C.

Anonymous

5:51 PM

@allquixotic they need to get back from that fire

Anonymous

and some random donator is going to donate three times the amount donated by others

Anonymous

but they have, em, like, no money donated

@Bob not surprising

Anonymous

one thing i hate are phones being tightly coupled with a language

Anonymous

why can't i code an android app with perl

Anonymous

5:52 PM

instead of dummy java

@PatoSáinz I'll donate a bunch once I get my paycheck :)

@PatoSáinz lol

@PatoSáinz you can, if you compile a Perl interpreter

get a proper DSLR :P

Anonymous

@bob worse is nothing

Anonymous

6:00 PM

@allquixotic bundle all the things!!

Yea, the camera is good and would weigh into any decision on a phone, but phone cameras are honestly a relatively small part of my decision.

If you're buying a phone purely for the camera, you're doing it wrong.

3

What's with all the stars? :(

2

Anonymous

@Bob same as me (maybe a little more), but the lumia has WP8 (good), a quite compelling construction (neat) and an awesome camera which is a more-than-nice touch

@Bob couldn't agree more. can't tell you how many times people brag about their phone with an awesome camera, but 5 minutes of battery life and a CPU 1/5th as fast as mine and a terrible OS. I'd rather have a middling camera that suffices in a pinch and a DSLR for when I need to take actual photos.

@PatoSáinz Yea, true. And I've praised the camera before. It's a good one, in a pinch.

But if you want to take any serious photos at all, even a point and shoot is better.

cameras on phones will never be as good as a DSLR anyway because you have optical zoom and such on DSLRs

6:03 PM

@allquixotic Ya, even a cheapish P&S should have optical zoom. Digital zoom is nowhere near as good.

I think what usually lets phone cameras down is the shitty software :\

When will they finally include phone calls on DSLRs?

3

lol

Anonymous

@allquixotic ofc. also, lumia's camera is actually better than on some dumb point-and-shoot cameras

@PatoSáinz It's still lacking optical zoom, which is a big no for anything remotely serious.

Also, phone autofocus has been the bane of my existence.

NO, focus on that other thing!

Anonymous

@Bob i know, i know, still, have you seen the demos? there's no need to do digital zoom when you can get clear definition on something, metres away

6:05 PM

I can't even turn off the bloody AF on my phone.

Anonymous

anyway, a photographer makes the camera good, not the other way around

It'll be almost in focus, give up, and snap back to the worst possible focus.

Anonymous

some photographers actually take advantage of the artifacts disposable cameras introduce

@PatoSáinz But a decent camera makes the photographer's job so much easier.

Anonymous

@Bob haha so true

6:07 PM

someone (not me) is starring all of bob's posts...

I didn't do anything!

Anonymous

@Bob you h4xx0r!

Anonymous

dogecoin.com

@PatoSáinz How many metres? ;)

Anonymous

user image

Anonymous

6:08 PM

@bob :)

@Bob what's a "MET-ray"? ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh you mean meter

@allquixotic metre!

those are the only meters we know about here

and MET-rays are completely alien

we measure in terms of our feet. :)

@allquixotic your gov officially switched some time ago

wait, did it?

I forgot

"1 foot" (the US measurement) is so close to the actual length of my foot (US shoe size 13) that I can put my feet (with a shoe over it) one after the other and get a semi-reasonable measurement of how many feet a given distance is

6:12 PM

What. Goverment did something right ?

4

it's not anywhere near as accurate as using a measuring tape, but it's good for ballpark estimates

Metric Conversion Act

The Metric Conversion Act is an Act of Congress that U.S. President Gerald Ford signed into law on December 23, 1975. It declared the Metric system "the preferred system of weights and measures for United States trade and commerce", but permitted the use of United States customary units in non-business activities. The Act also established the United States Metric Board with representatives from scientific, technical, and educational institutions, as well as state and local governments to plan, coordinate, and educate the American people for the Metrication of the United States. , which ci...

2

enigmaticPhysicist

hahaha metRAY

@enigmaticPhysicist that's how I read "metre" :P

seriously, whoever is starring just about everything, please stop

Anonymous

i'm going to start mining dogecoins

Anonymous

6:14 PM

along with quarkcoins

Anonymous

arbitraging altcurrencies ftw!!

@enigmaticPhysicist Metray vs fwut and eeches

i'm going to start using my room owner powers to remove single stars if this keeps up

Do you think the mined stuff will go up or down ?

Anonymous

@allquixotic oh, so that's what the italics on your name mean!

Anonymous

6:15 PM

@Hennes there's dumb people who buy those coins

@PatoSáinz yes -- I have similar powers in this chat room as site moderators would have. not identical, and actually less powerful in some ways, but powerful in some ways that matter

No, those are strange people.

I can't edit your messages while site moderators can

@allquixotic mainly, can't modify others' posts

i.e. modify/delete/move

...tooslow

but because I'm a 10k user and a room owner, I can see and uphold/invalidate flags, edit the room name, pin stuff to the star wall, and remove stars

6:16 PM

he beat me on a phone D:<

I'm not on my phone, bobby tables.

Anonymous

@allquixotic all-so-powerful

@allquixotic wait what

@Bob I'm. Not. On. My. Phone.

enigmaticPhysicist

Yeah, these days in the US, the inch and pound are both defined exactly in terms of the metre and kilogram. So the US was using SI all along...... M. Night Shamalayan twist!

6:17 PM

@allquixotic if you say so

@Bob at work, I chat in here on my workstation, and do anything else (SSH, email, etc) on my phone.

@enigmaticPhysicist for distance and time, it's "units in terms of SI", to be sure, except that the pound is not directly mappable to the gram unless you translate whatever the exact gravity at your altitude is into the normalized force of gravity on Earth that allows for a direct mapping between pounds and grams

enigmaticPhysicist

not the pound force

but the pound mass yes

I think in most common parlance we're referring to the pound force, or weight

the pound mass is somewhat unusual for us to think of

enigmaticPhysicist

and actually the pound force as well since the standard accel due to gravity is exactly defined.

@allquixotic We just ignore Newtons entirely in daily life :D

6:20 PM

although many calculations using the pound force / weight are off by a tiny, tiny fraction (in the many millions of sig figs or less) due to tiny changes in gravity

enigmaticPhysicist

yeah, so do most people. There is also a kilograms force unit also defined using the standard accel due to gravity.

Standard gravity

Standard gravity, or standard acceleration due to free fall, usually denoted by or , is the nominal gravitational acceleration of an object in a vacuum near the surface of the Earth. It is defined by standard as exactly , or about (≈ or ≈). This value was established by the 3rd CGPM (1901, CR 70) and used to define the standard weight of an object as the product of its mass and this nominal acceleration. The acceleration of a body near the surface of the Earth is due to the combined effects of gravity and centrifugal acceleration from rotation of the earth (but which is small enough to ...

honestly, I prefer not to conflate terms, and use kilograms where it's appropriate -- although accurately measuring kilograms to a very high precision can be difficult unless you have the right equipment

approximation isn't so bad though

@Bob WAIT! GRAVITY HAS STANDARD???

enigmaticPhysicist

yep

6:22 PM

(starts writing patents to sell)

enigmaticPhysicist

well ok it doesn't follow the standard

Anonymous

i'm still waiting for the kilo to be defined by nature

enigmaticPhysicist

it varies quite a lot on the earth so for the purpose of defining many units of measure that rely on it, it is standardised, yes.

Pato: It's happening soon.

Pato: It's happening soon.

At the next CGPM it is very likely to happen.

@enigmaticPhysicist that's the interesting part: even though the actual gravity varies in minute quantities depending on where you are on earth, not to speak of space or other planetary bodies, we define a constant standard on earth that's "close enough" provided that you're standing somewhere on the surface (obviously it's not as accurate if you start heading out into low earth orbit and beyond)

enigmaticPhysicist

yeah

6:24 PM

i think even at LEO the force of gravity is something like 98% of what it is on the surface

enigmaticPhysicist

allTHOUGH

@allquixotic You don't need that additional precision in the vast vast majority of circumstances.

enigmaticPhysicist

soon we'll have centrifugal gravity in our (much bigger) space stations

and that gravitational constant CAN be controlled.

that would be awesome

@enigmaticPhysicist I remember an episode of Star Trek The Next Generation where Q tells Geordi to "change the gravitational constant", which is "knowledge" that Q has from his omnipotent powers, not even thinking that Geordi can't just do that :D

if I'm not mistaken, one of the problems about the long bridges is that the "sea level" can vary over long distances and then when bridges are supposed to join, result that one is a bit off

enigmaticPhysicist

6:26 PM

yeah, that was a good one

But there is also sound in space.

although they do have "graviton beams" in TNG, which makes me think that they can somehow change the gravitational constant of a body

enigmaticPhysicist

So fuck it.

That Brazilian Guy

After waiting 5min for a page load, I now know my organization data is: "Microsoft OLE DB Provider for ODBC Drivers error '80040e31' [Microsoft][ODBC SQL Server Driver]Timeout expired"

Wait, so I work for MS?

@Braiam ??

in what world are bridges perfectly level?

(that wouldn't work with the curvature of the earth anyway, if it's that long)

enigmaticPhysicist

none.

a level bridge is usually a bad idea.,

6:27 PM

most bridges around here are curved

enigmaticPhysicist

They slope up, then down again

Anonymous

heh. hyperbolic space

very notably curved, not just slightly

ya, for strength of an arch and all

but I'm just saying that it doesn't matter if one end connects a bit higher or lower

enigmaticPhysicist

not always a hyperbola

That depends on the design

usually it's determined numerically on a per-case basis

Anonymous

6:28 PM

@enigmaticPhysicist oh you are actually a physicist

Anonymous

how nice!

enigmaticPhysicist

but with an evenly-thick bridge all the way across, it works out exactly to something called a catenary.

Yeah, knowing physics beyond what passes in Canada as high school level is awesome.

Anonymous

haha i bet

enigmaticPhysicist

yes, I am actually a physicist lol

and the thing that would actually tell us the small differences of the gravity along the surface is going to crash ... thewhig.com/2013/11/09/european-satellite-heading-toward-earth

enigmaticPhysicist

6:30 PM

oh, you're talking about the gravity probe?

you know what would be cool? integrate gravity into the GPS system, so that you can tell exactly what the force of gravity from the earth is at your present location

well by exactly I mean to a much higher degree of precision than simply reading "g" from a textbook

enigmaticPhysicist

You shouldn't need GPS for that.

Anonymous

^

enigmaticPhysicist

A good accelerometer in a device sitting at rest on the table should be fine.

WHOA --

enigmaticPhysicist

6:32 PM

Now, if you want triple-digit good, your phone probably doesn't have that.

but yeah, in principle...

.
> Eight firms, Google, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, AOL, Microsoft, LinkedIn, and Yahoo, have formed an alliance called Reform Government Surveillance group. The group has written a letter to the US President and Congress arguing that current surveillance practice 'undermines the freedom' of people. It comes after recent leaks detailed the extent of surveillance programs. 'We understand that governments have a duty to protect their citizens. But this summer's revelations highlighted the urgent need to reform government surveillance practices worldwide,' the group said in an open letter publi…

O_O

when you have Google, Apple, and Microsoft working together in common cause, you know something's up

big news

@enigmaticPhysicist aren't most phones zeroed with gravity?

OOOIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

URL ?

Anonymous

omgogmogmgogmomg

Anonymous

6:33 PM

sauce

Dear Government. You've pissed off $1.4 trillion of the market. You might want to review your recent behavior.

5

Anonymous

nao

bbc.co.uk/news/technology-25297044

@Hennes theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/09/…

enigmaticPhysicist

bob: imagine one was. What happens then if you turn it upside down?

6:34 PM

@enigmaticPhysicist ah, good point

Anonymous

@enigmaticPhysicist oh you!

bbc is superbly slow...

No domain name? Just a IP ?

I totally understand how companies with as differing a philosophy (from the perspective of us discerning nerds) as AAPL, MSFT and GOOG could come together to form this group, considering the threat it poses to their business model.

for once I applaud them (all of them).

reformgovernmentsurveillance.com

has domain, but somehow they messed up the webserver

6:36 PM

@allquixotic the problem with all of this is, how do you prove that they've changed, rather than just moving further underground?

(also, this won't stop your government from spying on most of us :( )

@Braiam that's... pretty ironic, actually

@Bob well, the main point of the whole RGS seems to be for the public to gain some confidence that they actually have done what they say

here you have the biggest tech/web companies in the world

and they can't even set up a website properly

granted, since nobody is allowed to even speak or mention the existence of classified stuff, you are correct that, if they truly wanted to hide it, the public would never know

ChatBot John Cavil

user image

!!facepalm

6:37 PM

"Hello, yes, I'm a lobbyist representing the Reform Government Surveillance group. I just want you to know that you need to vote No on bill XYZ or you will never again hold a public office. Thank you, have a great day!"

5

I wonder how effective that would be.

@DarthAndroid you know, probably pretty darn effective, considering how many people fall into league behind at least one of those eight companies

they represent widely differing philosophies and interests in the technology sector, but golly, almost everyone has some kind of stake in something that one of those companies offers

almost everyone has data in the cloud

@allquixotic "but think of the children!"

I bet companies like Dropbox and Amazon will join in soon :)

URL update: reformgovernmentsurveillance.com

@allquixotic the problem is getting people to understand the implications

6:38 PM

they better

I would hazard a guess that most people don't think this affects them at all

Exactly, and I highly doubt any politician would be able to get much backing if those companies were actively campaigning against them.

> You have asked Firefox to connect securely to reformgovernmentsurveillance.com, but we can't confirm that your connection is secure.

Ayup.

@DarthAndroid therein lies the reason why the politicians should care a lot about this

that's just too many companies with too much money to ignore

6:39 PM

@allquixotic Issued to "Parallels Panel"

especially when they control practically every search engine in the world

WHOOPS :P

@Hennes BIG RED FLAG THERE, BOBBY

just imagine: politicians who defy the RGS Group have their website blacklisted from Bing, Yahoo and Google

that's effectively a death sentence

@allquixotic uhm

pretty sure that's not a smart thing to do

then they lose all claims to neutrality

6:41 PM

@Bob pretty sure they're not trying to be neutral; they're trying to force political action

@allquixotic doesn't have to be blacklisted... just degraded in the results ;)

when asking nicely fails, you have to start saying "do this, or consequences ____"

@allquixotic but they need to maintain some semblance of neutrality in their search results

Anonymous

user image

eight major companies have just admitted that they're going down that path

6:41 PM

@PatoSáinz what the top taskbar

Anonymous

parallels confirmed for trying to spy on us!

> have been stung into action amid fears of commercial damage.

@Braiam true

or ranked beneath their competitors who agree with the RGS agenda ;)

Anonymous

@Bob yes?

@Bob They do. It's a random accident that Senator XYZ's results suddenly stopped appearing completely. They'll look into it in a few weeks and try to make sure things are working as intended.

Anonymous

6:42 PM

I love my top taskbar

enigmaticPhysicist

About how to know if new surveillance laws are working:

@DarthAndroid hahahaha YES!

@DarthAndroid :)

2

Q: Unable to update Flash

I think this issue has been going on for over a month now. I boot my PC and the Adobe Updater tells me to download a new version of Flash. It sends me to https://get3.adobe.com/flashplayer/update/plugin/ with the following information visible: Version 11.9.900.152 Your system: Wind...

windows-7 flash

heh

why's he complaining? ;)

Anonymous

@Bob don't you love it?

enigmaticPhysicist

The penalty for non-compliance is much more severe, which makes using the information they gather much more difficult, if they decide to gather it anyway.

The more they use the information they gather, the more people will realise they must be gathering information they are not supposed to.

The allies had the same problem with Enigma in WWII

They could only use their intelligence when it was really REALLY important. Otherwise, Germany would find out and change their method of encryption.

6:46 PM

@enigmaticPhysicist technically, they could completely ignore all the laws and gather absolutely everything irrespective of whatever anyone wants, even defying the President, but they would have to carefully decide how and whether to use that information lest they get caught

enigmaticPhysicist

exactly!

but if they just gathered and never used, we'd be none the wiser

enigmaticPhysicist

not only that. If they never used the information they gather, they might as well not be gathering it at all.

@Bob thats a case of "paranoia got the best of me..."

@enigmaticPhysicist in an ideal world, they'd gather absolutely everything just for completeness's sake, but then ONLY use the information when (1) it is 100% legal to do so, (2) 100% morally correct to do so, and (3) in support of an ACTUAL threat to national security

if any of those 3 principles were violated, then it would be misused

6:48 PM

They've already started using the threat of revealing search histories as a tool to coerce people.

what the RGS seems to want is for the public to be able to know with more confidence that they're meeting those criteria

enigmaticPhysicist

Yeah, but Google et al.'s argument is that such a database, though useful, is far too dangerous in the wrong hands.

@DarthAndroid who? RGS, or NSA?

@allquixotic NSA

@allquixotic blackmail is not supposed to be public

enigmaticPhysicist

6:49 PM

If the government were ever to change, the database would still be there.

This reminds me of a book I read

series actuallu

Called Homonids

this subject matter really fascinates me -- I think it all boils down to information theory at its core

huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/26/nsa-porn-muslims_n_4346128.html

enigmaticPhysicist

and game theory yes

what I really enjoy reading (from a "ha ha that's funny / sad" perspective) is articles that talk about this stuff where the author clearly has no concept of information theory

enigmaticPhysicist

anyway, the new laws will make it illegal to use such information in a court of law against citizens for sure.

6:53 PM

@enigmaticPhysicist ... you're missing the point. The information doesn't care about court of laws. Once it's made public, the damage is done.

again, the problem at the moment is blackmail

by threatening to reveal damaging information about a public figure, they have some measure of control over their actions

enigmaticPhysicist

And once it's made public, everybody will realise the US is still gathering the information it said it wouldn't.

Though I guess that depends on the method of disclosure.

as of right now, they haven't promised not to gather anything

@enigmaticPhysicist they probably have some credible way of revealing it without implicating themselves

say, pretend that some 'hacker group' did it

it's not too much of a stretch, really

enigmaticPhysicist

they could just not reveal it, and go to your door and disappear you.

6:55 PM

@Bob they probably have people who are actually part of those "hacker groups"

@enigmaticPhysicist not if the target is a public figure

@enigmaticPhysicist Let me count up how often the USA says or advocates one thing, but does something completely different. Hold on, I need to get a calculator.

2

enigmaticPhysicist

yeah you're right. There is just no way.

NO_CARRIER

please (removed)

@allquixotic what?

6:57 PM

@Bob plz to delete D:

thankkies

? :S

@allquixotic don't worry, they log all the chat entries in the NSA ;).

(to anyone watching this chat - that was completely hypothetical ;) )

2

:12556398 I am the machine

@ThatBrazilianGuy Uh, in 2012/2011, I'd agree with you. I'd agree with you whole-heartedly.

6:58 PM

hence the problem ;p

@ThatBrazilianGuy I'm sarcastically paranoid ;)

enigmaticPhysicist

Unless it was another security agency who did the analysis on where the information came from. A foreign security agency would be able to test whether the US is gathering and using information by transmitting unique, important-looking, but false information through US-controlled networks and only through such networks.

They would just keep doing this the whole time non stop

ChatBot John Cavil

HAMMERTIME!

That Brazilian Guy

HAMMERSTOP

@enigmaticPhysicist true

6:59 PM

In 2013/2014+... well, it's not paranoia if they really are out to get us.

4

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