The Whiteboard

Robert Harvey

10:00 PM

Sheesh. You guys will star anything.

4

user20683

@Ampt That's a frappuccino with one too many shots of espresso.

user20683

@RobertHarvey No, we won't. We aren't the Bridge.

3

user20683

Guys, stop reducing our discourse level to that of the Bridge.

2

user55340

@WorldEngineer We need some flags for that...

3

enderland

technically it's not discourse when we star things. discourse implies discussion

user20683

10:01 PM

Moderation isn't discourse either.

Robert Harvey

In the Teacher's Lounge, you need six layers of irony to get something starred.

user41796

@RobertHarvey - we're pretty simple here, we admit.

user55340

Its friday. 'nuff said.

gnat

@RobertHarvey filters are sooo sensitive. In one of the past projects we've got whole team work blocked for a while because filter blacklisted us (prior to that, mail admin made a mistake by forgetting to prolong our whitelist but that's another story). After this was escalated and investigated, it turned out that filter didn't like tits (found in uuencoded zip attachment)

Robert Harvey

@gnat It's a lost cause at this site. People are upset because they can't use the word "fuck," and the site owner refuses to whitelist "crap."

user55340

10:03 PM

@gnat Hmm... mushrooms of a Japanese origin.

Robert Harvey

Scunthorpe problem

The Scunthorpe problem occurs when a spam filter or search engine blocks e-mails, forum posts or search results because their text contains a string of letters that are shared with an obscene word. While computers can easily identify strings of text within a document, broad blocking rules may result in false positives, causing innocent phrases to be blocked. Origin and history The problem was named after an incident in 1996 in which AOL's profanity filter prevented residents of the town of Scunthorpe, North Lincolnshire, England from creating accounts with AOL, because the town's name ...

Ampt

@RobertHarvey I'm working to make Fluff an expletive at my place of work.

Robert Harvey

Fluff you.

Doesn't work, exactly.

Ampt

let it sink in

be one with the fluff

HEY! QUIT PRINTING 400 FLUFFING PAGES AT ONCE YOU FLUFFING FLUFFER

gnat

"You have fully used your vote allowance for today"

4 mins ago, by Robert Harvey

Sheesh. You guys will star anything.

user41796

10:05 PM

@Ampt I think he pretty clearly said to fluff off.

user20683

f(*c){return k;};

user20683

Smeg?

user20683

smeg

gnat

@MichaelT found it in that scunthorpe article! shitakemushrooms, wow

user55340

@gnat "Don't be such a {English town name}." --- "I'm not, you're a {Japanese mushroom}head." --- you just have to use the proper substitutions to get around the filters.

enderland

10:16 PM

@#%# filters

user55340

On Puzzle Pirates, they had some amusing filters on chat.

user55340

yppedia.puzzlepirates.com/List_of_known_filtered_words

user55340

(it is work safe, though will hit filters)

user55340

Made for some very amusing conversations when people were swearing and knowing it.

user55340

One guy was named "Scupperer" and once got a chat from a noob telling him "When I say a swear word, it says your name". The guy acted quite astonished and told the noob he'll be complaining to the powers that be about such a thing to make his name into a swear word.

Ampt

10:29 PM

he tell the noob to go fluff himself?

user55340

@Ampt Nope... he was just acting all offended that the powers that be would do such a thing to his perfectly legitimate name.

Ampt

reminds me of when my name showed up on an audit....

user55340

did you look at that filter substation page?

Ampt

booty is filtered? what kinda pirates are these?

user55340

Booty is the replacement word.

enderland

10:32 PM

@Ampt I'm going to show up on any reasonable audit of "suspicious computer activity" I suspect

Ampt

@MichaelT ooooooooh

user55340

The actual word is in white on white to the left.

enderland

@RobertHarvey you still want someone from the UK?

Ampt

@MichaelT that makes much more sense

user55340

10:46 PM

@Ampt A bunch of the games there... I'd like to see about implementing as little games of my own.

user55340

user55340

You select a top row, and let the coins fall.

user55340

Incidentally, a variation on a real board game from awhile back...

user55340

Ampt

ok, so interesting little python problem

I have a list of methods from a different class stored in my current class

and i want to call those methods

i have the class who contains the methods, as well as the function reference

but since the list is a variable, I have to use self to call it

so when I call the function, I inadvertently pass in the first class to the method of the second class

self.function_list[option - 1][1](self.client)

thats the piece of code in question

where function_list is the list of functions, the array list entries are used to retrieve the function pointer

and the self.client is the main class who defines the function being called

Jimmy Hoffa

10:57 PM

@Ampt ...why are you even doing this? What?

Ampt

well i use these little enumerated lists to call stuff all over the place

(press 1 for english) etc

so i pass in a (description, function_to_call) pair

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt why are you using numerals to route to functions rather than method names?

Ampt

and then dynamically create the list

well its closer to
1. Test plugged in device
2. Reprint labels
3. etc

but hard coding that is annoying at best and a waste of time when stuff changes frequently

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt So you have something that gets executed as a decoration around the function they're requesting, they give you the dispatch numeral to their function, you decorate and execute their function

Ampt

well if they press 1 it should call a function (in this case it's RunTests)

yeah

it takes no arguments

other than the instance being called

Jimmy Hoffa

10:59 PM

Is there an excuse for them not knowing the function they want called by anything other than numeral?

Ampt

yes

they are in a factory testing units

not writing software

Jimmy Hoffa

So this is some UI dispatch?

Ampt

yeah

Jimmy Hoffa

sounds similar to designs I've used in the past for command line parsing; arguments as keys to dictionaries which hold functions for updating the state based on those arguments

Ampt

pastebin.com/yiTcY7QB

Jimmy Hoffa

11:01 PM

This makes sense then. You want to do this without passing self.client in? I got the solution for you.

Ampt

thats the class

i want to do it without passing the first self in

the self.client is the instance of the original clas

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt "without passing the first self in" ? Explain that a little? I think I know what you want but I don't understand why you're trying to avoid something

my initial thought is you want to change self.function_list.append([description, function_to_call]) to self.function_list.append([description, def newFunc: function_to_call(self.client)])

(syntax not withstanding)

Ampt

ok so in python

self.method() is exactly the same as method(self)

so here im trying to retrieve the function out of the list, but have to reference it via self.list

then I add the parenthesis to call the method

so now its self.list[0]()

then I put in the instance so it knows which one to call self.list[](self.client)

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt With my tweak above this would work, you wouldn't need to give it (self.client)

Ampt

if you put parenthesis on early, itll call it then and there

thats the difference between calling the function and referencing it

Jimmy Hoffa

11:11 PM

@Ampt I didn't do that

Ampt

ohhhh

lambda

but that still doesn't get rid of the first self

i want to get rid of the very first one

Jimmy Hoffa

closures; used to enclose things. :)

codewonderings.blogspot.com/2012/09/…

@Ampt Oh, well I don't know anything about how python can reference a field without self. ?

Ampt

thats what I'm trying to do yes

Jimmy Hoffa

You could use a separate function that is local and references it...

Ampt

i don't either though

Jimmy Hoffa

11:13 PM

but that doesn't really solve anything. And I don't necesarrily know why you care about removing that self. ? Something wrong with that?

Ampt

ok because when it calls the function

that self gets passed as a parameter

so now its function_we_want_to_call(self, self.client)

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt that has nothing to do with you directing the interpreter to the list though

Ohh

I see

Ampt

thats the problem

Jimmy Hoffa

That's fucking weird.

Ampt

yeeeeeeeep

i'm guessing it's limited to python in this case

since you can do both class.method() and method(class)

(which completely goes against the python tenant of only having only one way to do things)

user20683

11:15 PM

well yeah, since methods are just functions in python

Ampt

WORLD!

save me!

user20683

@Ampt from?

Ampt

^^^

need your python magic

pastebin.com/yiTcY7QB

theres the pastebin

problem is on line 49

need to remove that first reference to self

so that it doesn't get passed into the called function

Jimmy Hoffa

def function_listGet(self, num):
  return self.function_list[num - 1][1];

Ampt

how does that fix it? now I'm doing self.function_listGet(1)(self.client)?

i don't even know if that would work...

Jimmy Hoffa

11:18 PM

@Ampt No, you have to put the self.client in the lambda at appendage

or rather you could..

Ampt

also, get your silly semicolons out of here

Jimmy Hoffa

 def function_listGet(self, num):
  def lambdarrr(fles):
    return self.function_list[num - 1][1](fles.client)

self.function_listGet(1)()

Ampt

giving that a shot

well, actually doing this:
function = self.getFunction(option)
function(self.client)

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "IM04Tester.py", line 163, in <module>
    im04tester.main()
  File "IM04Tester.py", line 36, in main
    gui.showRepeatingMenu()
  File "/usr/lib/pymodules/python2.5/TesterFramework/SimpleGui.py", line 53, in showRepeatingMenu
    function(self.client)
TypeError: runTester() takes exactly 1 argument (2 given)

Jimmy Hoffa

That's weird that python passes self automatically forward like that. Yeah perhaps what you have there is the pythonic way, because I sure don't know

Ampt

welp. im done for the night

this is so derpy

thanks for your help jimmy!

i must be doing something wrong there because i'm not passing two arguments (that I know of)

user20683

11:23 PM

@JimmyHoffa self is odd

user20683

it's kind of this weird work around for Python lacking private variables

user20683

and methods

Jimmy Hoffa

Ok, I *think* this should actually solve it...:

self.function_list.append([description, def lambdarr(fles): function_to_call(fles.client)])

then you don't give it any params and it'll automatically get an appropriate self, and it'll grab client from it.

Ampt

have a good weekend guys

Jimmy Hoffa

Aye, take it easy @Ampt

user20683

11:25 PM

@JimmyHoffa

user20683

# Function defined outside the class
def f1(self, x, y):
return min(x, x+y)

class C:
f = f1
def g(self):
return 'hello world'
h = g

user20683

an example of the insanity of self

user20683

@JimmyHoffa @Ampt

user20683

169

Q: Python 'self' explained

What is the purpose of the self word in Python? I understand it refers to the specific object created from that class, but I can't see why it explicitly needs to be added to every function as a parameter. To illustrate, in Ruby I can do this: class myClass def myFunc(name) @name = na...

Jimmy Hoffa

@gnat

user20683

11:31 PM

when in doubt, reboot.

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer nah he didn't reboot, he reconfigured

user20683

@JimmyHoffa He re-ed, same deal. Reboot, reconfigure, refactor

user20683

:P

psr

@enderland That is so strange. They formed a site dedicated to Startups, and most of the community worked really really hard on the site to get it off the ground, then gave it up completely and moved on to other things. Wish there was a way to see that one coming.

user20683

and I have just realized that you can totally treat Python like Javascript

user20683

11:40 PM

well sorta

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer objects are associative arrays? crazy.

user20683

it gets weird fast

user20683

@JimmyHoffa they are

user20683

as in most other dynamic languages

user20683

Dictionary abuse is a sin but it's fun

user55340

11:41 PM

@psr Did you see the bit about dropping user involvement? People kept blaming the moderation... though the core of people answering weren't sticking around.

user55340

> 264 out of 387 users at the 150 to 199 reputation level (68%) have been gone for 180+ days
72 out of 132 users at the 500 to 1000 reputation level (55%) have been gone for 180+ days
2 out of 6 10k+ users (33%) have been gone for 180+ days

psr

Yes, but the people blaming it on moderation seem to think that's why they weren't sticking around. I have no idea.

user55340

I'm hesitant to blame the site rules, but then not completely sure there.

user55340

They're having difficulty getting people at the 'discover' and 'join' points.

user55340

11:47 PM

One of the parts of the SE is that (in theory) people asking questions also get to answering them too. Drive by questions who never return don't contribute much to the community.

user55340

The declining stats of users indicates that new people aren't coming in to answer questions (because answers are where you get the more significant rep numbers) as people phase out. Thats not a problem with asking questions or closing, or moderation.

user20683

@MichaelT I'm somewhat curious how it was that "over-moderation" was involved.

user55340

@WorldEngineer The theme (as an outsider, reading text) that I got was that people were closing questions, and blaming the 'active moderation' of questions for why people weren't joining in the first place.

user55340

Its somewhat what we 'fight' here too with the 'P.SE has the wrong name' where people want it to be a different scope (that didn't attract experts).

user20683

@MichaelT yeah though we seem to be doing pretty well. I see a bunch of good stuff every day.

user55340

11:52 PM

startups was getting the "review my business plan" and "be a free consultant" type questions that were getting closed... and those that weren't were driving away the people who were answering questions.

user55340

> That implies to me that we aren't giving the community what they want. The community is the one that asks the questions. The community wants web site reviews, product idea reviews, and all the things our rules say we can't offer. We can either give the community what it wants, or fade away.

user55340

(from meta.answers.onstartups.com/a/1069 )

user55340

Looking at the 50 most recent questions there for 'hold'

user55340

0

Q: QR Codes: What would you use them for?

What would you personally use QR codes for? Would you pay for a web app that managed these codes and gave you analytics on them? I've created a site for a friend that let's them link a QR code to text, a picture, or video. While it meets his needs, I'm curious as to whether or not there is an ...

saas market-research

user55340

1

Q: Would you find this messaging interesting?

Upon reading/hearing this line: "Your Group Content in One Place, Organized" would it strike a cord of interest? We are currently in the works of developing a platform to effectively capture and share information/knowledge for individual and group level. This is the current messaging we have, an...

getting-started

user55340

11:55 PM

-2

Q: investors needed for an jewelry e-commerce

where can i find an investors that is already in the wholesale diamonds business(like a "Diamonds site holders" or DTC ) to invest and to be a partner with me for a future successfully E-commerce business for jewelry rings with the best domain name for it as www.MyRing.com ( close web site)

funding

user55340

0

Q: Which feature would you like to see implemented on a dating site and which one would you pay for?

A video speed dating feature (you could talk with any user for 90 secs); Issues solved: time saving for each user/ get rid of fake profiles/ know from the start if you are , or if you are not attracted with a certain user; A dating approach coaching feature. (shy guys and girls might benefit dir...

ideas validation

user55340

-1

Q: Someone Trademarked my idea for Tshirt athletic apparal line 30 days before I did and stole my idea ? What can I do ? Can I win?

I play baseball, talking on twitter 8/12 put my little saying that I have used for years and was going to trademark. Another baseball player said he liked it told him I was going to patent it and not to steal it. At that time he talked to me about my business and said he would like to do someth...

legal trademark

user55340

So its not a terrible closed/on hold rate for 50 questions... and yea... those questions are... poor.

user55340

The 'blame moderation' is likely from 'not enough close votes otherwise' because there aren't enough close vote casters otherwise.

user55340

So, their 50 most recent questions have a higher percentage of open ones than we do... but then #50 is also Nov 11th... so not a great rate.

user55340

11:59 PM

Part of what keeps people interested here is that there are new questions constantly to read consider think about and answer.

Transcript for