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12:08 AM
PHP: Not Even Once.
@JimmyHoffa - Is it wrong that I implemented a fixed point combinator in MUMPS?
I have to fake first class functions using command objects, so the combinator has to have 2 classes with an apply method, and the factorial has to be 2 classes (because the first part returns a function that computes a factorial) and you call it with: s fix=##CLASS(User.FixedPointCombinator).%New() s fact=##CLASS(User.Factorial).%New() w fix.Apply(fact).Apply(7), so it's really not worth it, but by God it's a fixed point combinator, to the extent MUMPS can have one.
Oh, and of course all the closures have to be manually done to get the inner functions to work right.
12:44 AM
While your sound advice is clear to those who are experienced in the arts, I fear that novice programmers and visitors may not see the value of your answer. Please consider editing your answer and expounding upon why unit tests would address the OP's concerns. — GlenH7 15 secs ago
^^^^ never thought I'd be dropping a line like that on a near 10k user's answer.
4:57 AM
@psr wrong? No, but there's every likelihood you're the first person to have ever done so, ever.
5:10 AM
Q: Which languages should Goma use in his next 'Which language' question?

FoscoFrom your experience with Goma, which languages should he ask us to choose between in his next 'Which language' question?

Can people comment on this meta question. meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/2380/…
I posted a question and it has been suggested that it doesn't belong to programmers. I am not sure
5:54 AM
wow. Just...wow
@gnat - subjective opinions are welcome. I know its a huge question, but opinions do help for my case right now — mcr619619 5 mins ago
6:11 AM
@gnat Not Goma, but at the rate he's going, he'll be q-banned soon (if not already)
@AseemBansal The crawling question? I'm on the fence on that, I can see both sides of the argument. If it gets closed, you should post a meta question about it and let the wider community decide. I'll dismiss the flags on it for now.
6:26 AM
@YannisRizos I commented on this meta question after Robert Harvey posted. Maybe other people can add to this discussion. If I started a question on meta it would most probably be marked as duplicate of this question.
@AseemBansal Nah, we wouldn't mind a Meta question about a specific question. If you feel it's not a "name that thing" question, make your case. Just do it on Meta, not in comments, and only after the question is closed. 2 close votes aren't anything to lose sleep over, I traditionally get at least one close vote on all my questions on Programmers ;)
@YannisRizos I'll take keep that in mind. Thanks.
Just make sure to reference the older discussion and explain why you think your question doesn't fit the "name that thing" description. That old discussion happened at a time when we were getting bombarded with extremely low quality terminology questions, and yours - regardless of its topicality - it's not low quality. Perhaps its time to re-examine our whole policy on terminology questions now that we have better examples to work with.
I placed a link of the old discussion in the question comments. If it gets closed we'll see.
2 hours later…
8:50 AM
I secretly want my child's first words to be "Hello World."
9:29 AM
@YannisRizos Question got closed. Meta meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/6089/…
2 hours later…
11:45 AM
...sort of ironic to see objections against too much attention to the meta question which is, in turn, related to questions receiving too much attention from collider — gnat 35 mins ago
1 hour later…
12:57 PM
morning progs
ps aux | less
1:10 PM
Q: Should i learn Android development if there's Apportable?

Andrey ChernukhaShould i spend my time on learning how to make Android applications if i can use Apportable and easily turn my iOS app into Android? Isn't Apportable a killer of Android development at all?

interested to see what you guys think. I was trying to lead him to the same answer I got to, but if you guys have any cold hard truths to dish out, I'm all ears
@Ampt It's not going to kill Android development because not everyone wants or is able use a Mac.
that's a good point that I completely overlooked
I own a Mac, it's a very old machine. Old enough to where I can't properly do iOS work on it anymore.
what do you use for development now? and what kind of development do you do? (I'm looking to get a macbook pro.... maybe)
at the moment I'm not working as a developer. I use my mac to do mostly python work at the moment. Bits of Haskell and other things. Web stuff too.
1:21 PM
Looking to find a job doing dev work or something related to it.
you're an undergrad/grad student right?
recent grad
ah, I'm in my senior year next year
@gnat I was going to try and fix that question but it looks like you scared him off
@Ampt I just quoted canned close reason that applied :)
> Questions about what language, technology, or project one should take up next are off topic on Programmers, as they can only attract subjective opinions for answers. There are too many individual factors behind the question to create answers that will have lasting value.
yet another crap-thrower at us from SO...
oh really? best suited, yeah sure
> Let's have nice discussion and share everything we know about this
1:30 PM
@gnat haha no worries, I went to hit edit and it was blown away. Maybe he got what he wanted out of it. Who knows
> Best suited to somewhere we don't have to deal with it
@Archer consider taking a look at Programmers About page, it's not for nice discussions. "This site is all about getting answers. It's not a discussion forum. There's no chit-chat...." — gnat 18 secs ago
I have added this question into Java, c++, c category because I wanted a better attraction to this question also I wish to find a source code package that is written in a C style language like Java, C++ and more. — TemporaryNickName 1 min ago
@Ampt - you've been on a roll lately scaring off questions...
.... Is it my hair? I didn't really have time this morning
well I think we know who the next mod will be...
1:42 PM
... @GlenH7 ?
he was telling me the other day how he loved going through the queues
especially on SO
Yes, because with that amazing 313 SO rep, I crush those review queues like nothing else.
I meant he loved dreaming about going through the queues
the man has a dream. How could you deny that?
The questions are dropping like flys this morning... what is it about tuesday morning that makes people want to post poor questions?
@Ampt school may be starting up somewhere and instructors / TAs will point students to StackExchange for research.
That's gonna be in 3 weeks
1:57 PM
Remember Remember, the panic of September...
@WorldEngineer Not sure what various international Unis do for their schedules. And there's always the year-rounder's. A bit late for a 2nd summer semester, but maybe not
it's finals week for summer semester
there's that
Actually, you're in a great spot to skim the IP addrs and see if it's a lab or general brain failure. :-)
ding! I think we have an answer
1:59 PM
Actually I'm totally not
all of that is confidential
I could go look but I don't unless absolutely necessary.
@WorldEngineer ? I thought mods had access to IP info. Didn't say to share it.
it's still a matter of privacy and I try to respect that.
some comments are... priceless
@gnat - despite what that says, have you ever looked at the site? If yes, then you'll know why I recommended it :) — Archer 5 mins ago
@Archer well I dare say I'm fairly familiar with the Programmers site (2+ years, 200+ posts in 200+ tags, 19K+ votes, 2,5K+ edits, 1,5K+ comments, 1,7K+ helpful flags, 10K+ rep) — gnat 1 min ago
2:08 PM
@ThomasOwens you hear that? YOU AREN'T THE BOSS OF HIM :)
Any time you have to use that line, your argument is automatically invalid.
Eh. I just went through his comments and flagged two or three suggesting Programmers where they were inappropriate.
I like the smileys, so that it's less offensive
just a backhanded way to say "I don't agree with what you're saying, but here's a happy looking face so that you don't realize it"
I'll continue to do as I wish, but thanks for the valuable information :) — Archer 12 mins ago
What a <this would get flagged>.
@JimmyHoffa That's what I was pointing too with the boss comment
2:19 PM
A smiley icon in MS Exchange was translated to "J" in exchange web portal (text only).
This caused some problems... we had several "Adam" names in the team. One was Adam S, another was Adam J. When reading an email that said something like "we'll send that over to Adam J" it really confused me because he wouldn't have been the right person at all.
I'd say we should start telling everyone with crappy questions to post them at SO but I don't think anyone at SO would notice...
@Ampt It's not really an Us vs Them battle. SO and P.SE are supposed to serve related but different needs. There's folk on both sides who will happily push crap to the other side because they can't just say "your question is currently crap and needs work before it could go anywhere"
@Ampt Apparently, there were 'fun times' back when P.SE was a valid migration target from SO.
> This account is temporarily suspended for rule violations. The suspension period ends on Dec 28 '17 at 21:36
2:24 PM
@MichaelT I don't doubt that at all..
temp suspension until 2017 hahaha
@Ampt ...huh?
I dislike our Off Topic - Other Site progression because I think it's pushing crap to SO that should just die off until the question is reworked.
(In the last 90 days, there have been 55 migrations from SO to P.SE, 18% rejected. There have been 210 migrations from P.SE to SO, 12% rejected)
2:25 PM
@MichaelT "It's for the children. Even one rejected migration is too many."
@GlenH7 Iduno, it takes an amount of skill and work to become 3k here (unless you're rep is all old NPR rep) that is going to mostly only exist for someone capable of recognizing "This is technically specific and fits on SO"
That's my fallback excuse - it's for the children
Yay! I win the $1 bet with myself
> Nice guess rookie. I just lost a bet... TO MYSELF
2:26 PM
@GlenH7 You owe @GlenH7 a coke.
@JimmyHoffa Was kinda thinking I needed one actually. Way tired this morning
Someone has been going through the old, open (and closed) goma questions.
@Ampt quit poking holes in my balloons.
@GlenH7 Whatever Farva
@Ampt Got you with the soap in the coffee again this morning rookie? Tough.
btw I just gave the 5th close vote to that Q on SO, woohoo me.
2:31 PM
@JimmyHoffa And now... you can attack, the queue!
@MichaelT Attack! Attack-RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!
In SovietOverflow, the queue attacks you
@JimmyHoffa You are well versed in glorious movies. Teach me your ways master.
> put on hold as primarily opinion-based by Archer, Colin Morelli, gnat, Thomas Owens, Jimmy Hoffa
those damn close voters slip through to SO from Programmers
with their criteria
Q: High traffic website chat back-end logic

user2633999I think I haven't come across this question on stackoverlow and I think it deserves its own discussion. This is not a standard php/mysql/javascript type of chat because they are easy to build but can't stand too much on high traffic. However, it does use PHP and javascript (jQuery). I'm using P...

Well, when you advertise a crappy question, of course people are going to follow the link.
@Archer When one of the moderators of Programmers tells you they don't want you linking people to their site without first participating there for a while, it might be respectful to appreciate the hard work and time they put in to that site by not continuing to press people to post stuff their which is unwanted, and only creates more work for the moderators over there. It's really a great site, you should try and participate; you may be surprised at the quality we've reached by quickly closing the poor quality content like this question. — Jimmy Hoffa 17 mins ago
2:52 PM
damnit! I got FGITWed here on programmers!
Q: How to create better OO code in a relational database driven application where the database is poorly designed

JubbatI am writing a Java web application that consists mainly of a bunch of similar pages in which every page has several tables and a filter that applies to those tables. The data on these tables comes from an SQL database. I am using myBatis as ORM, which may not be the best choice in my case, sinc...

answer was accepted before I was even finished typing up my answer (which I'm frankly still not finished)
Fastest Gun in the West
is there a badge for that?
I think there's one for first answer getting 10 up votes and accepted.
2:59 PM
I got that one! :D
It's kind of a quality control - sure, it gets accepted, but does it also have community approval?
does that make me.. THE FASTEST GUN IN THE WEST?
Probably not. I've only seen it used to refer to quick, but not so good, answers.
I wouldn't say the other answer is not so good
So that's a good thing that I'm not then
3:01 PM
I just had about twice as much as it written by the time his was posted and accepted near immediately after heh
@Ampt There's also a badge for getting some amount more votes than the accepted answer on a question
So it's always worth while to try and give a better answer if you can even if there's another answer already accepted
Populist - Highest scoring answer that outscored an accepted answer with score of more than 10 by more than 2x
(populust is something completely different)
Non-geek people are working their way into IT areas, getting the higher salaries and getting to be the bosses of us geeks. — user61852 6 mins ago
Non-geek people are working their way into IT areas, getting the higher salaries and getting to be the bosses of us geeks. — user61852 4 mins ago
someone isn't thrilled about that idea
Q: Fastest Gun in the West Problem

Omer van KloetenI feel like there's a problem with Stack Overflow, as the number of people prowling it increases. Each question's answers are sorted by descending score and then by descending time of posting. This means that if a person sits down and answers a question in a long, thorough way, going through eve...

> Non-geek people are working their way into The Whiteboard, getting the higher reputation standings and getting to be the overlords of us geeks.
3:15 PM
It's MadLibs with crazy comments.
@Ampt Kind of funny, that guy is complaining about his salary when he lives in the middle of the woods in PA. Kind of ignorant to expect to make big city money living in a dead backwoods town where there's no houses for sale over 80k
Where I used to work, we had a madlibs whiteboard for awhile. That was... interesting.
@MichaelT It's all fun & games until HR steps in
HR ruins ALL the fun
They didn't... and we were on the same row as a director (who would see the board every he left his cube).
3:17 PM
a director in a cube?
Even the CIO was in a cube. And the cubes were in a pole barn. Lets just say that IT wasn't the favorite department.
never is... something doesn't work? It's ITs fault
I have just given up altogether and decided if that dude got the accept right quick with a short answer, I should; nay must fill out may answer with an endless slew of information. I mean endless.
Show you to counter my answer with a short concise single-thought answer
I'm going to puke information all over that guy.
@gnat This is not a Link-only answer. The link is just a support for the answer, not the answer itself, in case the poster wants a quick reference as to what are naming conventions. The answer is exactly what I said. The poster mentioned the naming convention he selected looked weird to him and I suggested he should follow his selected convention even if it was weird (which means not to stray from convention just for personal comfort). — AJC 31 mins ago
I guess I have missed something that makes it a good answer. Wait, there's wikipedia link hidden in there, how insightful
3:34 PM
A: How to create better OO code in a relational database driven application where the database is poorly designed

Jimmy HoffaObject orientation is valuable specifically because these types of scenarios arise, and it gives you tools to reasonably design abstractions that allow you to encapsulate complexity. The real question here is, where do you encapsulate that complexity? So let me step back a moment and speak to w...

That's not going overboard. Nope, not at all.
@gnat Apparently the Wikipedia link was there because answerer thought the OP wouldn't know what naming conventions were. I'd call that a low quality answer. Arguably, it could be stronger if he said why to follow the team's naming conventions, but he didn't.
I'll add more complexity encapsulation approaches later; I need to get some work done now..
@JimmyHoffa I may have to take my up vote back from that wall of text. :-)
> Ok, yeah that really is talking crazy, but who knows; you might just be that crazy (seriously, do not undertake monads with a craziness rating below 88%, there is real risk of bodily injury).
@GlenH7 If that doesn't do it, wait 'till you get to the end and realize I suggested a monadic boundary
I do need to break it up to make it readable; it is really just a wall of text. I need headers and crap.
3:38 PM
Bold key points within the paragraphs for the skimmers.
Pretty please
I'm torn. -1 for obligatory monad approach. +1 for the completely crazy azz approach. May have to go with net change of 0.
ok, can someone please explain what a monad is
<oh cripes>
it's too close to monday for me to even try and understand it
3:40 PM
(I'd so flag that if it wasn't going to annoy everyone else in chat...)
Did I do something bad?
Actually, Hoffa may have stepped out. He mentioned I need to get some work done now..
So we just pretend it never happened right?
@Ampt Jimmy is our local FP evangelist. All can and shall be done through Haskell. So yeah, you opened a can of worms there. But we're just kidding around to tease @JimmyHoffa
actually, you could search through the chat logs. I'm sure he's covered it with World & psr before.
3:42 PM
I'm on the wiki page now and theres a pattern mention in line 2. I think this means the Apocalypse is happening.
ok, now you're just trolling
> In functional programming, a monad is a structure that represents computations. A type with a monad structure defines what it means to chain operations, or nest functions of that type together. This allows the programmer to build pipelines that process data in steps, in which each action is decorated with additional processing rules provided by the monad.
emphasis mine
that links to the decorator pattern wiki page
In functional programming, a monad is a structure that represents computations. A type with a monad structure defines what it means to chain operations, or nest functions of that type together. This allows the programmer to build pipelines that process data in steps, in which each action is decorated with additional processing rules provided by the monad. As such, monads have been described as "programmable semicolons"; a semicolon is the operator used to chain together individual statements in many imperative programming languages, thus the expression implies that extra code will be execut...
4:07 PM
wow, SO guys can't handle too much attention to questions just like us at Programmers
@gnat: Yes, I saw that you posted the same comment below the question. One of the other SO mods had to lock the question again because of all the attention it is getting. The thing would die gracefully if we just all ignored it. If you want to talk about the collider, ask a new question. — Robert Harvey 10 mins ago
and people tell me that I like to push buttons haha
So an interesting analogy came up at work today about this major failing project I am on
Its like a pee-wee soccer team
@maple_shaft Did they compare it to a monad; it's failing silently beyond a boundary that doesn't let anyone interact with it to save it?
Our positions and titles are meaningless, we follow a ball all over the field just kicking each other in the shins
meanwhile the parents (Application owners and personnel managers) are screaming at the coach for not putting their child in front and center all the time
@maple_shaft Pittsburgh is like a pee-wee soccer team. Seriously give a bunch of 3rd graders a hand full of buildings, road pieces and bridges and that geography in a model, the burgh is how they'd lay it out. Then when they picked up the people and pretend they were having conversations and interacting, it would pretty much go just how people act out there ;P
4:16 PM
The refs because of the chaos basically have given up, and only call out egregious breach of conduct
@JimmyHoffa The problem here is that with so many tech companies and CMU and University of Pittsburgh Medical...
They need far more smart people than our population can provide
and none of the other smart people want to come live here because the pay is so much lower than other areas of the country
despite the low cost of living
@maple_shaft Yeah, which is why it's really easy to get work out there if you're a smart person
its also very easy for people to pretend they are smart, get in positions they don't deserve, then fuck everything up
@maple_shaft Pay is actually quite decent especially for cost of living; the thing you guys out there don't realize is it's not the pay, it's the place. It's just miserable; no sun, takes a half hour to move a few miles in any direction because bad traffic and roads, the food is terrible, you can't even get fresh produce in any giant eagle outside of the fancy one in squirrel hill
and I blindly believed racism wasn't common in public before I moved out there
@JimmyHoffa the latter is slowly changing
not the racism but the grocery store problem
heh yeah I know
4:20 PM
more and more areas are slowly becoming gentrified
Yeah, I have to say; the silent storm has awesome food and that whole area is kinda neat, though it's still so strange to me how the garbage areas butt right up against that stuff so close
yeah there is a big gap between comfortable middle class city life and abhorrent poverty and crime
But really, the traffic thing is horrible and the food problem is cultural; I remember asking one of the butchers at a giant eagle why they never have raw brats for you to season and cook yourself like I'm used to, he said they tried carrying them but nobody would buy them. I asked one of the fellows in produce to point me to avocados when I couldn't find them (which they didn't have), he showed me to the squash because he didn't even know what an avacado was
they keep trying to push poor people out of certain neighborhoods but it takes a while
there's not enough in-migration to change the culture so the food problem isn't realistically going to change outside of the few dense nicer areas
4:23 PM
BTW it is Quiet Storm not Silent Storm :)
Whatever; it was awesome and I'm no vegetarian heh
@JimmyHoffa Well the smartest people actually arent from here
they went to CMU or U.Pitt and fell in love, and stayed
there is actually quite a bit good places to eat now...
The shit food thing is seen as a cultural rite of passage to be considered a true Pittsburgher... so it is done out of ... im trying to think of the word
Yeah, downtown pitt has some interesting parts, but the problem is one of size; the size of areas in the metro area that are worth being near compared to the size of the metro area is just a joke. People rarely set down roots somewhere just for a small section that's nice when surrounded by a whole that's rotten
umm... a hipster fad thing...
we smart Pittsburghers eat shit food ironically :)
the smart people you talk about who stayed because they love it do so after they graduate and enjoy their bachelor live in cool neighborhoods like on liberty..what's that neighborhood called I can't remember... but when it comes to settling down? If you're not from there most people aren't goign to be comfortable raising a family there
4:27 PM
Well again... that is a cultural thing around here...
When you ask a Pittsburgher where he is from, he doesn't say Pittsburgh... he says his neighborhood..
I know. Just saying; these are the reasons it's been losing population year over year for ages and you don't have enough smart people and it's only going to grow worse
Swissvale, Squirrel Hill, Shadyside, Oakland, Moon, Robinson, Braddock...
@maple_shaft I know! Which is CRAZY! heh, I was so baffled why nobody there knew there way around the burgh, they all stay in their little few square miles and don't expose themselves to anything else
lol its like NYC... I know a guy from brooklyn that only goes to manhattan every other year
@maple_shaft ...braddock...eesh, I used to drive through wilkinsburg all the time to get down town from penn hills, what a place..
4:30 PM
Why would you drive through Wilkinsburg? You gotta death sentence?
Bright side is I'll never be afraid in any part of denver at all ever again
The only reason I would drive through Wilkinsburg is if it was to avoid Homewood
and even then I would wear body armor
@maple_shaft I just couldn't stand the retarded traffic through the tunnel
and I would drive it whenever taking my kid to appts at childrens which is a straight shot down penn ave
@JimmyHoffa There is always an 88 year old woman in a Buick in front of 20k cars going about 20mph through the tunnels because she is afraid of the walls closing in on her
I wish I could move... my wife doesn;t want to leave family
@maple_shaft You know what's hilarious, have you ever seen the show kitchen nightmares? Silly reality show where chef dude goes to restaurants that are on their last legs and makes a drama and gives them a makeover. He did a show in the Mrs. Jeans southern soul food joint in the middle of wilkinsburg. I never saw it but my wife said it was hilarious because the customers were all insane, which is fitting.
4:35 PM
@JimmyHoffa I am convinced that if you want real soul food or BBQ then go to a place down south
@maple_shaft or at least don't damn well go to wilkinsburg heh
up here it is probably a front business for some kind of black gangster activity
that and car washes, barber shops and pawn shops
all gang fronts
I stay the hell away
@maple_shaft Yeah, go to your sammich shop and your gian' iggle and stay within a few square miles (btw brooklyn is wayyy bigger than any of the neighborhoods burghers constrain themselves too so not really the same :P) but if you can do that, the place grew on my wife a bit. She misses the strip.
@maple_shaft That's the burgh culture, so close with family, that's good and all but yeah; my wife and her sister both moved away from where they grew up and are across the country from eachother, they grew up in chicago where people migrate around. Burghers just have that ingrained culture that you never move away from family; I never heard adults talk about their parents so much before I moved their.
...and that's enough spamming the whiteboard about pittsburgh...
A: How to create better OO code in a relational database driven application where the database is poorly designed

Jimmy HoffaObject orientation is valuable specifically because these types of scenarios arise, and it gives you tools to reasonably design abstractions that allow you to encapsulate complexity. The real question here is, where do you encapsulate that complexity? So let me step back a moment and speak to w...

Hopefully more readable now
(and he moved the accept to me! woot!)
@JimmyHoffa We need to put Pittsburgh in a monad.
If nobody ever moves more than a few miles from their hometown - have we discovered that Pittsburgh is already in a monad?
5:00 PM
Oh my rep is awesome right now
for a split moment
damn it rounded it
hmm.. to upvote that wall of text, or downvote it because its a stealth monad?
@JimmyHoffa 6676 ;-P
@MichaelT all monads are stealth, they're like math ninjas
@JimmyHoffa I wished for some math ninjas back in college.. just leave the integrals on an piece of paper and come back... and they're complete. They never showed up. Stupid ninjas.
@MichaelT Those are math elves, which are too busy enjoying frivolities to do math, a math ninja would have left the answers on the paper invisibly, and killed someone in the house to take payment
5:28 PM
> In the military, aviation, heavy industry and the like systems can control things that have terrible failure modes those systems so they may have very strict rules about languages, compilers etc.
A: Why does the US government disallow dynamic languages for secure projects?

BillAssuming the evaluation was security only, and not just an acceptance scan (ie: they do not accept Ruby because they don't want to support Ruby) then: Security analysis tools typically have a bad time with dynamic behaviors. For example: Run any .net project written with modern features like ...

I was just amused by that understatement. "terrible failure mode" for something going wrong with a military system.
> How often is the Stack Exchange Data Explorer updated?
> The data is updated early every Monday morning around 3:00 UTC. The last update was Jul 17 at 17:06.
every Monday and last update was Jul 17 somehow don't go well together
5:45 PM
27,005 questions!
didn't you hear that we voted on re-arranging the days of the week last month?
mondays are now wednesdays, wednesdays are tuesdays, and tuesdays are thursdays. That means you start on a thursday, but still end on a friday
makes the whole thing seem shorter
@Ampt Ever have this problem - Friday, Monday, Saturday, Sunday, Thursday, Tuesday, Wednesday. Someone sorted the days by alpha? Fun bug to track down.
that's so foreign it took me a second to understand how the alphabet worked
@Ampt identify this sequence: 8, 5, 4, 9, 1, 7, 6, 3 --- what comes next?
@MichaelT google takes all the fun out of things
5:57 PM
well the 2 is missing but I'm not sure if this is a bounded problem.
im not googling. I want to figure it out
@GlenH7 It does. A000052
but then, i could mess someone up by giving them this sequence - 0, 5, 4, 2, 9, 8, 6, 7, 3, 1 --- A097960
> Oh Monday morning, Monday morning couldn't guarantee
Every other day, every other day,
Every other day of the week is fine, yeah
But whenever Monday comes, but whenever Monday comes
You can find me cryin' all of the time
> Monday Monday, can't trust that day
> Lisp’s boast is that Code is Data. Ruby accidentally and regrettably allowed Data to become Code. Oops.
6:07 PM
ok, got back from my CI standup
no clue on the pattern
what is it
eight, five, four, nine, one, seven, six, three, two, zero
so it was two next
refer back to the days of the week being alphabetized
of course
I saw the numbers and didn't think they could be alphebatized
6:29 PM
Q: how to choose suitable Data structure for an applicatioin?

Dineshkumar There 're lot of systems to developed and during design we came up with a big issue. what data structure should be used? is there any specific way of selection? example: like a system for vehicle parking and how 'll you schedule parking?

That sounds like a "I don't know how to handle those interview questions"
7:05 PM
... I've gotten pinged via linked in by Amazon. I just got my first careers 2.0 ping... and it was from Amazon.
@MichaelT it feels good to be wanted
@GlenH7 That it does. If they had done it 2-3 months ago, I'd be in Seattle now.
Amazon is hiring like mad in Cambridge, MA.
@ThomasOwens but can they find any CS talent there? </troll>
The Linked in one specified Seattle, haven't dug into this one yet to see where its for.
7:07 PM
They have two teams here. Audible and {something so secretive, they don't say in their job postings}.
was watching this and thought, maybe askers of questions we close view us this way?
They also own a robotics company.
They make Amazon warehouse robots in a different area.
@ThomasOwens Distribution Center robotics is a rather neat area to be in.
I remember at an engineering (ChemE, MechE, CivilE, ElectComputerE) expo decades ago a model system with what looked to be expensive legos (to my young eyes) that had robotic controlled DC.
They had M&Ms of various colors at a various spots (coded into the inventory) and you could push a button, and it would have forklift thing pull out the proper pallet, put it on another item, which would take it to a conveyer belt, which would bring it to you (who would then eat said M&M - very important for a kid).
7:14 PM
@MichaelT have you seen the videos of the actual robots used in the LEGO warehouses? quite amazing
@GlenH7 Technic and Mindstorms?
unfortunately, no
a lot of steel
and a lot of "no humans allowed here" type zones
Mfg dumps into coded bins. Bins are then stacked in multi-story shelving until needed.
7:18 PM
robots handle all the shuffling in / out of the shelving
here's a good entry point to the various videos I've seen. lego.gizmodo.com/5019900/…
@GlenH7 Wherever I am found there is some CS talent. It's dubious talent but it is some.
@WorldEngineer Didn't think you were in Cambridge at the moment.
@GlenH7 I am not
but were I, there would some dubious level of talent there
7:31 PM
That area always been a bit suspect IMO
Anyone up to doing a heroic transformation of a (likely) interview type question? The OP is trying... gotta give him credit for that, though he doesn't quite get the scope right.
Q: how to choose suitable Data structure for parking system?

Dineshkumar what data structure should be used for a system for vehicle parking and how can we schedule parking?

I'm a mod, I'm only allowed to do villainous transformations.
Btw - I really like Ruby’s Principle of Too Much Power - it gets at a fair bit of the what I don't like about ruby problem.
@MichaelT The problem is that Rails makes web dev work so easy that you've got morons doing it. It's like PHP but with a machine gun.
7:41 PM
> The aim is to be so declarative, so high-level as to no longer see nor understand what is happening beneath and before." What really happens is that most people that work with ruby are simply not educated enough to understand what is happening “beneath and before." Ruby tries to go the extra step to make programming seem closer to a normal language.
in the right hands both languages can do awesome stuff but you need either talent or practice and unfortunately there are a great many users of said languages that aren't either.
> This means that more people will be able to become sufficiently proficient in it to think they actually understand what they are actually doing, and will proceed to try their hand at writing complex systems. Unfortunately without some very solid grounding in much lower level languages, and language design in general, that apparent proficiency is just an illusion.
I could build a computer from the ground of if need be short of actually fabricating the components.
program it, give it an OS, all of it
why? Because I went and got a degree
7:42 PM
When people talk about languages, I replace languages with names of tools. Like "The problem is that hammer makes construction work so easy that you've got morons doing it."
would it take me years? probably
@ThomasOwens This might explain the fall of the housing market.
@ThomasOwens given "there I fixed it" web site, um... yea.
my aim is to be an actual engineer.
7:43 PM
My friend Joss built a working electric car at the age of 10
that thing reminds me of a downmarket version of what he made
@WorldEngineer how do you define "actual engineer?"
@GlenH7 where I understand the processes of the things I'm building from top to bottom.
7:48 PM
@GlenH7 Actual engineers user the appropriate power tool for the necessary task.
(though that might be a php and ruby programmer... hard to tell)
is that macgyver?
@WorldEngineer was curious what your definition was. abstractions, but understanding why the abstraction is there, are still necessary
Guy on the ground looks like a iOS dev, the other one clearly uses C++
7:50 PM
@GlenH7 right
A real engineer can build what he needs and uses what is built so he doesn't have to but understands it so it can be fixed if need be.
the work can be more boring, but that ethos tends to pervade at actual engineering shops
and there's usually a number of PEs around who can supervise / sponsor you when it comes time to register for the PE.
PE in software engineering? Didn't know they had one
@WorldEngineer It's new.
7:53 PM
April 2013 was the first time. It'll be offered again April 2014. Only some states offer it, though.
New Hampshire did, Massachusetts did not.
and you need 3 or 4 years of supervised work under a licensed PE. One of my problems when working at big blue was that no one was a PE
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