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Paul Siegel
Paul Siegel
02:19
@TerryLewis I'd like to emphasize an important distinction implicit in my comments and questions so far: I am assuming that the CoC change under discussion would apply to moderators only, not all users of the site.

The job of a moderator is to, well, moderate disputes, and to accomplish this it may be necessary to suppress one's own strongly-held beliefs and apply the stated rules fairly and objectively. Equally it may be necessary to adopt language or behaviors that are incongruous with one's normal patterns. SE has the right to expect a high standard of neutrality and professionalism f…
user61230
02:42
I appreciate your perspective, @PaulSiegel. While I don't agree on all counts, it strikes me as balanced and thoughtful. I would add one more: that when I talk, and when I fight, I do it for my peers and for the people I love -- not for myself. But when I rest and am quiet, that is for myself. My stamina is only capped by the age at which I would like to go grey.
user61230
(Or alternatively, I suppose, if I meet some worse end. But I prefer not to dwell on that.)
Terry Lewis
Terry Lewis
03:46
@PaulSiegel, you write, "it is other people debating whether or not [they have] a say in who [they are] as a person."

I'll speak for myself here rather than for anyone else, but from my own perspective:

1. Who I am as a person is not affected by anything external to me. I honestly don't understand what that means. I am who I am. And perhaps this breaks my heart for others more than anything, because I can't imagine what it would be like to (forgive me... I know of no better way to say this) need that kind of affirmation of my personhood. I'm willing to learn why others feel that way... if…
Terry Lewis
Terry Lewis
04:01
4. I'm trying to speak gently here, lest I offend and/or get this post deleted, but again, I'm trying to be honest. Pain is not evil. It is a warning. Without pain, we would not survive very long.

Now notice that I'm not saying that CAUSING unnecessary pain is not evil... only that pain itself is not evil. If we are continually hurting, that is nature's (I would say God's) way of letting us know that something is wrong.

I believe it is painful to live in conflict with reality. If you ignore the reality that the range eye is on and you put your hand on it, you get burned. If you try to bre…
Terry Lewis
Terry Lewis
04:11
Regarding policies to promote dialog... that is certainly a harder thing, but I think the biggest thing is to get out of the way. The problem isn't an institutional problem... it's a individual problem. Change cannot be dictated from the top-down... it must start with the people getting their hearts right and then our politics, our media, our entertainment, will all follow suit. That's why freedom of speech is so terribly important... but I'm repeating myself.

Removing one side of voices from a disagreement only appears to end the conflict. Living together as a free people in a free countr…
 
18 hours later…
fredsbend
fredsbend
22:27
I've never had a person ask me to call them a peculiar pronoun. Has anyone else? If yes, did the request appear genuine?
Paul Siegel
Paul Siegel
22:57
@TerryLewis I found little to disagree with in your remarks. A healthy resolution to the disagreements under discussion will require patience and resilience from everyone involved over a long period of time. And the mechanism for change is dialog - one conversation at a time.

But now let us place ourselves in the position of SE, and let us imagine that one of their goals is to design a site where this dialog can occur. (Given recent behavior, it is not clear that this is in fact their goal, but we can imagine.) This cannot be achieved by getting out of the way - the internet contains a…
@fredsbend It is not uncommon for people to specify their preferred pronouns in their bios - this is even more common on other platforms, but it happens here too. I think the root of all of this is: should SE moderators be required to use those pronouns if they are specified?
fredsbend
fredsbend
@PaulSiegel I almost never click through to a bio ...
I think SE actually tries to divorce the content from its author. You're supposed to evaluate content only, without regard to authorship. If ze is the author, no should really give a damn anyway.
@Aza Why do your beliefs permit you do dictate the contents of language? Demand whatever actions and words you want from people. No one can or will stop you. But you shouldn't be surprised to meet resistance and outright unwillingness to meet your demands. If it so bothers you that you can't exert your desires upon others then you should reconsider your attitudes and respect toward others in the first place.

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