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01:27
@kimholder How can I see a "count down clock" for your bounty? It says 2 days - does that mean 36 to 60 hours? I'd rather a "rocket scientist" amateur or otherwise answer it and I'm wondering if someone else is working on it. If nobody is working on it, I can take everyones thoughts and add some mathemagic and try.
@uhoh the bounty started on July 24 at 21:12 UTC. It can be awarded after at least the first day, and up to 24 hours after the last day. In case you haven't seen it, there is more info here - space.stackexchange.com/help/bounty
@RussellBorogove just to let you know, uhoh is jonesin' for another answer on that question about how big a planet a rocket can launch from. Hohmannfan hasn't had the chance to work in the T/W aspect into his answer, and it was a pretty key point you raised there. If you can stand to take one more crack at it, you seem to be the guy.
not that the current answer isn't good, just sayin.
02:11
sobs
Uhoh, you take an answer if I fix atmospheric density and scale height at Earth standard? I definitely do not have time to update my sim's atmospheric model.
02:43
heheh, poor russell :)
 
17 hours later…
19:46
Okay, simplifying assumptions:
* delta-v to orbit including atmospheric and gravity losses is 10,000m/s per surface g. Seems to hold for Earth, Mars, and our agreed-on Earthtoo.
* Available engines are RL10, J-2, F-1, M-1.
* No more than 1 quadrillion engines allowed on a stage.
Oh - ha, you are doing this serious
* Stage mass is 90% fuel, 10% structure, plus the engine mass.
make sure you are answering the right version though...
i know there are a lot now..
Limit: 7.88 surface g. 14 stages. mass 7e16 tons. 1 quadrillion F-1 engines on the bottom stage.
i just wondered when you mentioned Earthtoo
HA
that is a memorable answer
19:50
It's so sensitive to the assumptions that it's still nothing like a "theoretical limit".
hell, sure sounds close though. If it gets to a quadrillion, tweaking the assumptions doesn't sound like it would make an important difference. would it?
No it's crazy-sensitive. Change the tank ratio to 92% and the rocket goes to 20% of the mass -- 2.8e15 tons.
Gee. interesting in itself though.
Bring the specific impulse of the M-1 up to 450s instead of 428s and you knock another zero off the size of the rocket!
All of this because the stage sizes go up exponentially.
right.
I think you are safely within the bounds of 'ridiculous' with that number, though. And it conveys a sort of feel for it.
 
1 hour later…
21:08
@RussellBorogove that's really pretty great. i want that spreadsheet now.
 
2 hours later…
23:33
This one's a python script rather than a spreadsheet. It's a total rabbit hole, though. For the big planets, final acceleration at stage burnout gets up in the 20-30g range, so I need a rule to reduce the staging ratio as thugs get bigger. I didn't get as far as working out the required stage diameter to support all these engines either...
oh, but surely beings inhabiting a 10g planet can handle 30 g's. That is just obvious :D
3
Yeah, probably, and we've made unmanned rockets that can structurally handle it too...
the main thing is that it is a great demonstration of non-linear stuff and the intricate inter-relation of all sorts of elements
I should at least have it compute the first-stage footprint. Once your rocket covers a continent....
:] it would be fun to add illustrations down the road...
the related What If had a couple of good ones
which one was that now...
I am a little surprised to come to the conclusion that highly motivated Earth-threenians could get a person into orbit.
yeah, well... we didn't even touch nuclear thermal, or orion-style, or something like a launch loop...
my mind wandered to what a good science fiction story about an Earth-fourians would be like.
When I was in high school, I was a member of our "Rocket Club", which competed in the Team America Rocketry Challenge. Basically, it was about making model rockets to fulfill certain requirements which changed every year, things like making an exact height, exact flight time, maximum weight, etc.
We had a software, I think it was called "SpaceCAD", which we could use to create rocket designs. The software would tell us things like what the center of gravity, maximum height, stability, etc. would be. It was pretty fun to mess around with the settings to see what crazy nonsense rockets we could make.
Kerbal Space Program videos have explored the outrageous quite a bit. it is fun.

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