@Hohmannfan yes that could work then

You can not stay at the SEL1, I agree with that, but there must always be another point on the Sun-Earth line that works

where did SEL1 come into it then?

yeah, you see? not my fault :P

SEL1 has nothing to do with it

"compensated SEL1" was ment to be "not at SEL1, but the same balancing idea"

Badly phrased, I admit that

OK OK it was a misunderstanding

no harm done ... yet :)

Something was lost in the Norwegian-English-Slovenian-Slovenian-English-Norwegian chain

Now we are ready to cause real harm :)

the thing is that as soon as you go into what you called LSO, the Sun is a much larger object, so your maths about the size of the sail don't stack up any more

and I didn't calculate it, but I think it would melt aluminum

(of that thickness)

It depends on how far from Earth the balancing point is. That requires math

@kimholder I know. But you had done so well, then it veered, In context into something reasonable, but some of the context got lost. You could hear it in davids voice as well. :)

yeah, i just couldn't let the opportunity pass. look at how it perked up @Hohmannfan :D

@Hohmannfan the thing is, it would be more of a statite than a satellite

A statellite :P

yeah I think it has been proposed before

as odd as it might sound

and probably dropped for the same reason LOL

A satetite?

can we just call it the shadow of death in this case?

@Hohmannfan I say go for it :D we know what the Sun's output is to get radiation pressure, we have good numbers for average solar wind momentum at and around equator e.g. for the invariable plane...

and then we can figure out how to put it on the site

@kimholder a "Thermodynamic Stefan-Boltzman radiation skewing occultative radiation pressure effect balancing configuration" sound better

the tsbrsorpebc ?

wouldn't it be easier to just point a giant laser towards the Earth and ask it to surrender or else?

it's not like the Earth could do the same without harming itself badly

we'd need to crunch the numbers to do the business case.

but i like the fact that with the other you can give them a taste without actually hurting anything, really

@TildalWave Does not the laser get problems with penetrating the atmosphere in either direction? Optics are reversible.

just google for DE-STAR or DEEP-IN ... then apply XKCD to it :D

besides, how long would the atmosphere last under that sort of heat?

@Hohmannfan sure, but heating up the atmosphere is Earth's problem, not Moon's :)

yes!

you can do that from the Moon without harming the Moon, but you can't from Earth without harming the Earth

oh, i must now update my world domination talk with these great refinements...

there's even easier ways

btw @TildalWave i was looking for the opportunity to thank you by name but it didn't present itself

and also - what name? not your full actual name...

@TildalWave the persistent flinging of rocks...

That is a SECRET (even if I know it)

hurl boulders ... relatively simple from the Moon towards the Earth... not so easy the other way around .. and there's deeper gravity well one way, shallower the other so it scales like, oh dunno, at the power of bzeeng?

@kimholder meh you ninja'ed me LOL

i think about this a lot :)

@kimholder that's OK, dunno what name anyway

@TildalWave A search including "Tildal" but excluding "Tidal" easily finds you

oh I'm not hiding

no, but you do prefer a certain discretion. you've avoided the use of it here, and if i name you on the space show, that plugs right back into here.

I just like to keep this separate because it doesn't really have much to do with my real life ... I'm an anonymous chilli grower from a country that doesn't exist, remember? :P

an insomniac caver

I prefer "spelunker", "caver" sounds wrong :D

So you are not some secret crazy scientist that ran away from the Mafia that imprisoned you and forced you to invent deadly super weapons for them?

@kimholder actually, good point, there's no diurnal cycles down below :)

On Earth, you can sleep during night and stay awake during the days. On the Moon you miss half the daylight

@Hohmannfan I can't comment on that :))

It is getting late, bye for now.

people tend to sleep less on the ISS, which may not be simply due to a certain lack of comfort

g'night @Hohmannfan

@kimholder duckduckgo.com/…

cool. not much that is clear though, from the few papers i checked.

> Gravity has been hypothesized to have an associated metabolic cost. Increased resting energy expenditure and dietary intake have been observed in animals during centrifuge experiments at hypergravity

that bit is cool

@TildalWave i tried to be open-minded in responding, but i think i made the point that every endeavor has a cost, and this is one that has a much bigger upside.

that question was quite unexpected, thinking on my feet about it was a challenge

@kimholder ah you did good, I would probably respond more aggressively but that wouldn't necessarily be better, more probably much worse :)

I gotta say that I thought it was a really arrogant question... like, oh look we could do so many things for all of us but no, you want to hold hands and look at the distant rock just as it looked like for billions of years, so we didn't... sorry that so many people died and the Earth turned into a dump because we were unable to help while you were admiring the view :P

people that fear change don't deserve a sunrise

The sunrise means change from night to day. >_>

So, maybe they don't even want it.

yes, that was my point

A fine point, sir.

Like one of those pencils used for very thin and precise lines.

i was rather surprised david gave it so much weight. maybe he feels it is something that needs to be gotten out of the way.

@TildalWave i partly starred that for it extraordinary stern-ness

oh it's not his fault, he's a host and was doing his job, I'm just surprised that anyone would be living so badly under a rock and still have means of communicating without talking out of you know what

Maybe he wanted to add extra weight to compensate for the Moon's low gravity.

it almost felt as a troll question, I'm a bit surprised that David thought it's worth asking but he explained why

and that's probably why I don't host my own space show :)

yeah, and that took a fair bit of time, which made it seem more important than i think it is. but i have heard the same thing raised elsewhere, so it may be a current of thinking he feels needs to be addressed more aggressively

i don't think i made the 'better there than elsewhere' point as well as i could have if i'd had a bit more time to think about it

the moon is dead. dead, dead, dead. not even dynamic, like a lot of other places. totally still and cold.

we have to mess around somewhere, best do it there.

Maybe he was hoping you would? I got a feeling he wanted to ask it in a slightly sarcastic manner but held it back

yeah but that would detract from Moonwards

that is exactly the point. if the face of the moon changes, how do you feel after that about what is possible in life.

welcome to all your comfortable assumptions being challenged

well if we're too timid then I guess we better stay put right where we are and wait for the inevitable

i guess i talked enough in general about how space changes perspectives for that message to still be there

oh it's not a question for you alone to answer anyway, I'm just a bit annoyed that it even has to be and isn't self-obvious

it came up at the LEAG meeting, no less

if we should be changing its environment

yes, why do anything

hot tub time!

enjoy :)

does anyone get this question?

I mean there's loads of formats, and then there's loads of protocols, and combinations of both,...

@kimholder The email notification system for the Lunatalks forum act in a strange way:

nice "feature" in case you do not know what you do :)

Nice infographic

SMBC

@Hohmannfan I want to go to BAHFest one year. That looks like a ton of fun.

@Hohmannfan yes, i've gotten that a few times :P

btw, there are 10 people in the chat room right now. 10!!!

This room? I count 11. Are you sure you're looking at the right room?

Maybe not a room from a couple days ago?

:P

wait, sorry, i meant the forum

the one on the moonwards site. 10 people!!

Ah, gotcha. What forum?

Ah, nice!

my reaction is 'must fix everything right away!'

What's broken?

nothing exactly, but most of the site only partially done

i was going to redo the planning page before the interview but ran out of time

There is more time in the future. Lots of it there.

yes, i'm trying to take it a little easy for a few days. but i feel a bit like i've got browsers and i don't want to miss a chance to convince them they really do want to do some work on the project

but yeah, all in good time, a proper pace makes for better decisions

I think there is enough there that it might intrigue the sort of person who would be intrigued by it. I don't think there is a need to rush things.

Besides, if you rush things and it doesn't go well, then you spend more time changing or fixing everything.

Slow is steady, steady is fast.

well said.

When is Scott Kelly leaving the station?

@kimholder Take 4 for spacex and ses-9 tonight, 6:30PM EST.

ok, scheduling

@geoffc how were you notified on that? saw it on twitter?

@kimholder I have been following the SpaceX Reddit. Someone there finds it on Twitter and posts it.

reddit.com/r/spacex

(Tesla reddit is good as well: reddit.com/r/teslamotors

nasa.gov/press-release/…

@duzzy nasa tv has the 'hatch closing ceremony' starting at 4:30 EST, 2:30 for you

Duzzy is 2 TZ's back from EST in MST I think.

@geoffc yeah, he's a mountain man

Oh nice. Thank you.

The mountains are awesome!

i'm not sure which to schedule, i guess just all three...

@kimholder Nacho, nacho man..

lol

@duzzy They truly are! My first trip to Salt Lake City, UT I stayed at the Foothills Marriot UofU campus, and arrived after midnight. First morning threw open the blinds, and was actually shocked by the mountains. I have this strange fear of looming mountains falling on me. Niagara Escarpment does the same thing for me.

Biking along the base of the escarpment., Hamilton to Niagara Falls, freaks me out. Stupid cliff looks like its going to fall on me, the whole time.

Yeah, when you're up at the U, those mountains are pretty much right on top of you.

The JCC (Jewish Community Center) is actually almost next door! I never even knew that, for all the years I was at that hotel every year. :) Alas, not very Jewish, more community. which is fine for them, not for me.

(Cafe was kosher style. Appreciate the effort, but of no meaning, really).

'kosher style', as opposed to actually 'kosher'?

@kimholder Literally close but no cigar.

doesn't seem to be much point in that...

@kimholder That is what I was thinking.

Tweet from Elon: Pushing launch to Friday due to extreme high altitude wind shear. Hits like a sledgehammer when going up supersonic

Some day this thing is going to launch!

They're doing change of command on ISS.

nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html

^ NASA.tv broadcast of hatch closing ceremony for ISS Mission 46

Tim Kopra is new commander. Hm.

American.

wasn't it tim peake, the brit?

no you're right, no accent

tim peake is the one doing the RPi programs.

what are those?

raspberrypi.org/blog/tag/tim-peake

oh, neat

code written by brit kids being run on a computer called a raspberry pi. the first single board computer, they have a stack excange site if you want to look later.

The first?

the best at least.

there's also arduinos. maybe others.

ardiunos are not full computers.

no? can't say it's something i know anything about, just occasionally read about it in one or another tech mag.

I guess that would depend on how you define what a computer is. Arduinos are microcontroller boards.

It must be a weird feeling closing those hatches.

from one tin can to a really small tin can. i suppose they are used to that by now.

it would be realy sad and terible if kelly died on the way down and they never finshed the experiment. and he spent all that time in space with nothing to show for it.

@kimholder Yeah, but they spent so long on the space station, and now they're getting ready to leave. They're going to be gone.

big mix of emotions, i bet.

and for the guys still there, they just kind of go on with their day while those other people just left the space station.

i wonder why it takes 3 hours to undock

say goodbye and then sit in the driveway in your car for 3 hours

Yeah, but your driveway isn't in space, and you're not going to die if there is a leak in your car.

do they have to wait until that point to do all the systems checks?

they must, but i wonder why

Well, they probably want to be sure the pressure is stable after the hatches are closed.

and they also put on those suits in case the capsule does lose pressure, don't they? I imagine that must take a little bit of time.

There is probably a bunch of little things that they do, but I don't know what any of them are. :P

oh wait, they entered a airlock region?

@kimholder when i tried that link it didn't work

right, they must have, they weren't in suits

and it was open to the rest of the space station. :P

@sir_ian which one, the two most recent ones load for me

@duzzy yeah, suiting up alone is pretty time-consuming

i'm not the quickest today...

Well at least you were watching the correct video.

ooooh you are going to hold on to that one like a little piece of gold, aren't you.

this one nasa.gov/multimedia/nasatv/index.html

huh. it loads for me.

@kimholder It's the shiniest piece of gnome gold I've found yet.

@sir_ian That loads for me too.

:]

well goodbye, i might see you laer for the landing.

@sir_ian sure, we'll be here. so, you need to link to nasa tv on your own, i guess? i don't know that i can do something different so it loads for everyone.

ok i'll figure something out

it's the main nasa tv channel. was the issue that the video wasn't loading, or it didn't go to the site?

^ from the 'Florida Today' magazine website, no less.