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5:05 AM
 
5:52 AM
posted on November 10, 2014

Expedition 41 Flight Engineer Alexander Gerst of the European Space Agency (ESA), left, Commander Max Suraev of the Russian Federal Space Agency (Roscosmos), center, and NASA Flight Engineer Reid Wiseman, sit in chairs outside the Soyuz TMA-13M capsule just minutes after they landed in a remote area near the town of Arkalyk, Kazakhstan on Monday, Nov. 10, 2014. Suraev, Wiseman and Gerst returne

 
 
3 hours later…
8:57 AM
This book is a decent chronology of Roscosmos, and it's predecessor..
'The rebirth of the Russian Space Program'
When did they stop using film aboard spacecraft though? The impression I get here is that as late as 1994 film was used ...
 
 
5 hours later…
1:56 PM
The problem with film is, you can only launch so many miles of film, and only have so many return vehicles. And once you want it back, you commit one. The second digital quality sufficed, and bandwidth sufficed they switched.
KH-9 on the US side (Awesome book on it at home, forget the name, Hexagon something) had 4 (?) return vehicles (caught in the air by a C-130 with a hook) and reused them. Had like 120 miles of film I think.
 
2:26 PM
Anyone watched the Rosetta update on ESA? What's new?
 
 
1 hour later…
3:38 PM
Yep. I spoke too soon - turns out they started to transmit photographs in real-time before film was phased out. According to the book the resolution of their ordnance surveys were so good, at one time USAF was actually using Soviet photographs of Washington DC!
Hm. Makes one wonder ... whether milsats carry a greater amount of manoeuvring fuel aboard ...
 
4:40 PM
No way to really find that out, but I'd imagine they do. They'd probably mostly phase orbits and perhaps change argument of periapsis which are not terribly prohibitive maneuvers in terms of delta-v. Attitude control is most likely passive (spinning) and with magnetorquers tho, to avoid being detected easier.
 
phase orbit?
 
in simple terms "when you are over what in your orbit"
or, fast-forward and rewind :)
 
blinks
 
e.g. MOM and other Mars orbiters phased their orbits around Mars during the Siding Spring so they were all "behind Mars" when at greatest risk of impacting with cometary debris. But phasing on itself doesn't mean you're changing other orbital elements
well, you are, but temporarily
 
ah. Acceleration, and braking you mean?
 
4:45 PM
kinda, but applied to orbits
wait, surely there is a wiki page on it lol
 
similar to accelerating before the lights turn against you, then braking to keep from rear-ending.
 
In astrodynamics, orbit phasing is the adjustment of the time-position of spacecraft along its orbit, usually described as adjusting the orbiting spacecraft's true anomaly. Orbital phasing is primarily used in scenarios where a spacecraft in a given orbit must be moved to a different location within the same orbit. The change in position within the orbit is usually defined as the phase angle, ϕ,and is the change in true anomaly required between the spacecraft’s current position to the final position. The phase angle can be converted in terms of time using Kepler’s Equation: where t is defined...
indeed it is :)
 
Wikipedia addict (+:
 
not really, I'm just lazy :))
 
Goes with the definition (+:
 
4:47 PM
I actually hate it when people refer to wikipedia as proof.
 
Hm. These people say a Don usually explodes at 200km... wonder why
I know (+: that's why the opportunity to needle was too good to pass
 
If used to explain what you mean, fine. Saves you the trouble of writing a few more paragraphs. But quoting "it says so on wiki so it must be true" is plain wrong.
Especially given that wiki pages are little more than a collection of quotes themselves. I mean, if you're gonna use wiki to prove you point, at least check where it's quoting something and use that instead.
Hard to disprove something if you don't even know who said it (and in what context) LOL
@Everyone I know where you're going with it but I'm not gonna say it :D
 
Stu
Where are all the Interstellar related quiestions? haha
 
Wait, it didn't yet hit the torrents in any good quality. ;)
 
:P
Curioser and curioser
*Don missions have proved to be infrequent. Three flew in the Soviet period and
then three more in the rest of the 1990s: two in 1993 and then a long gap until 1997.*
What kind of program constructs/deploys a satellite in such haphazard fashion?
The first Don in the new century, Cosmos 2399 on 12th August 2003,
was the seventh ... **weird**
 
5:04 PM
"Don missions"? I thought that Don Quixote didn't launch yet
ah slightly different spelling, same thing
Don Quijote is a proposed space probe under development by the European Space Agency, which would study the effects of crashing a spacecraft into an asteroid. The mission is intended to test whether a spacecraft could successfully deflect an asteroid on a collision course with Earth. The orbiter is being designed to last for seven years. The mission is still in the planning stages with launch dates proposed for 2013 or 2015. == Overview == The mission will consist of two spacecraft that will execute a series of maneuvers around a small, 500-metre (1,600-foot) asteroid. The first spacecraft, Sancho...
so which "Don missions"?
 
Third generation of Soviet photo-recon satellites mentioned in this book I referred to above "Rebirth of the Soviet Space Program"
 
Ah that "Don" ... aka Orlets
which I believe should translate as "eagle"
 
Yep.. a specialized sub-set of Orlets. There were Don, and Yenisey
Unlike the other milsats, the Don were thrown up (pun intended) in a haphazard fashion
 
Stu
Don Quijote sounds liek a fun mission
would love to see video of the impact
 
Now how on earth did they make out Don aka Cosmos 2423 disintegrated into 36 pieces??
 
5:12 PM
what I wonder is if Sancho Panza will follow :)
 
I don't care if Sancho follows him ... as long as they don't tilt at wind-mills up there!
 
@Everyone there were also two Orlets-2 sats, one in 94 and another in 2000, that would explain the gap no?
 
Those would be Yenesey; different design code under the Orlets family
 
yes but still serving same purpose, only they lasted 3x longer and carried 22 return capsules
and as the page says, they were launched atop Zenith-2 which is Ukrainian so they went back to Soyuz and Orlets-1 for the 2006 launch
 
(+; and the Yenisey didn't explode at 200k
 
5:24 PM
They were in Molniya orbits?
 
Don?
 
yup
 
Nope; 230x300
Yenisey slightly higher up, and manoeuvred a good deal
Photo-recon wouldn't go into a Molniya, would they?
 
5:45 PM
if you're just tracking activity then I guess they could. If you wanna read newspapers, then no.
 
Point taken, but they'd need some really high-speed film for the perigee even to track activity
 
neah, I meant that resolution you'd get at apogee would be good enough for tracking movement of heavy machinery and alike
 
Anyway, if they were to explode at 200k would you put them in a perigee of 230k? Feels like cutting it close
ah
 
but it's a shame that Molnya can't work inverse, because I can foresee a service ... read on one apogee someone's newspaper as they read it on the bench in Central Park and transmit it to someone's iPad as they sit in Gorky Park on the next apogee :))
@Everyone depends, what units?
 
eh? km
 
5:51 PM
200k km? That's nearly half way to the Moon
 
nooooooo
200km
 
oh
shame :)
 
inverse as in zip through apogee, and amble through peri?
 
yup
and I wrote it wrong anyway ... s/apogee/perigee
if we're going fictional then why not go all the way :)
 
Perhaps with another moon up there so the apogee is actually down-hill ... ? (+;
 
5:55 PM
Shoot at really low perigee and you can even deliver the same paper someone was reading in Central Park to someone else in Gorky Park LOL
 
Yes you did. I wondered - but I know you're wiser than I
 
There there, now you're just politely saying I'm older than you are :P
 
With an average lifetime of 10x29 years (+; I'm sure the oldest electron in my body is comparable to the oldest in your's
But really, you know far more about Space than I do. I'm just a wannabe.
 
yes but mine were quantum entangled more often ... as quantums left, I just remained with more entanglements
 
Right. That's called space exploration ...
 
6:02 PM
hahaha yes I guess it is :)
 
So why would a Don lose it's head at 200k?
 
@Everyone Rapid unplanned disassembly? Dunno but it generated 28 tracked debris so it must have exploded, collided, or prematurely released its film capsules. Or one of its self-destruct charges self-activated for some reason. Discharge event perhaps.
 
Nice description (+:
 
hehehe
 
Nope. Each Don lost it's head at 200k
 
6:17 PM
Then dunno, maybe you're referring to their planned detonation? If that's perigee then it would make sense to do it then - higher drag and smaller mass fragments means faster decay
 
Surely explosion would impart velocity to the debris ... pushing it up, or even imparting Ve?
Unless they used precision charges along the body of the satellite, or something. I'm not even a layman in the field
 
Neah change in orbital speed in not so important since you'd get fragments in all direction, what matters is that they carry less kinetic energy with smaller mass and they'd have relatively large surface area, so atmospheric drag at 200 km would decay them all faster. You'd only get delta-v change in the order of a few percent of their orbital speed anyway.
Also, one possibility for "fragmentation" is simply release of the film return capsules, and each capsule being one fragment.
Officially, Cosmos-2423 mission was "completed fully and successfully"
 
Makes sense if they recovered the film ...
 
posted on November 10, 2014 by Nick Ballering

Simulations show that the Oort cloud contains eight billion asteroids (in addition to hundreds of billions of comets). Do these asteroids pose a threat to Earth?

 
But the Oort cloud isn't perturbed locally, is it?
Ugh. Sleep catching up
 
6:42 PM
posted on November 10, 2014 by Astrobites

It's time for our fall Reader Survey, and we're giving away free t-shirts this year!

 
7:00 PM
'nini
 

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