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00:00
^ What it should really say.
Why aren't we starring more things?
@Undo No, the real question is why aren't they starring more things in Astronomy?
4
00:17
posted on November 12, 2013 by Chris Bergin

The Russian Proton-M launched the Raduga 1M communications satellite at on a nine hour flight to orbit. The Russian workhorse was launching a government payload for the first time... Related posts:Russian Proton-M launches three Glonass-M GPS satellitesA Russian government Proton-M launch vehicle has successfully launched with... Russian Proton M launches Luch-5A and AMOS-5 satellitesA Russia

"with the angular velocity sensors installed upside down." was the cause of the failure
loool
@RealzSlaw Ah yes that was during summer this year
00:33
@Undo couldn't get online after that yesterday; ISP link died
@TildalWave Awake? Don't wake up if you're in Morpheus' arms.
Just wondering how I would go about finding the asteroid on record with the least average velocity
11 comments moved to Physics Flag Queue
pokes @Und
pokes @Everyone
How far is the Solar occult zone from you? q+:
00:48
Eh?
yelps
lol what time is it?
Oh, about 6.
pm
Ah. Aha
Working on burning through my 73 Stack Overflow flags, the mods have to hate me.
Explain yourself please )+: I don't even know what that sentence means ^ except the last part
00:54
I have a total of 73 flags I can use on Stack Overflow, and I'm currently flagging stuff :)
73 flags?
I can flag up to 73 things each day.
as in obsolete comments thingy?
Yep. And normal post flags as well.
hmm. how do I get started on those?
Do we have any users from Brazil/Chile here on SEx.SE?
01:00
@Undo are you asking them to migrate stuff to space.SE?
01:47
@Everyone I'm here, g'day! ;)
@Everyone ah search the neo databases
5
A: How can an amateur astronomer verify the position of near Earth objects?

TildalWave Is there any publicly available, NEO-related database out there? Or is there a specific institution a hobby-astronomer can/should turn to to be able to learn more about individual NEOs? Yes, there is NASA's Near Earth Object Program that catalogues all detected NEO's and had advanced re...

02:02
does @Everyone work?
thats cool
how'd you figure that out
@TildalWave wow, I was just reading the-colossus.com/sciencegoals.html:
> The Colossus will be able to see millimeter-scale details of manmade objects in space on geocentric orbits"
@RealzSlaw well that would be fantastic, tho "geocentric orbit" is a broad term, anything from LEO to GEO really
> the spatial resolution of 2mm at the height of 400km
02:21
@RealzSlaw that would make it have angular resolution of 0.001 arcseconds ... Hubble has roughly 0.1 arcsecond resolution
I assume thats a good thing :P
well yes, but I'm not sure how possible that is, given it would be in atmosphere
mmm
well, we'll wait for it to be built :D
then they can look at stars at night, and follow the ISS by day
:P
11
A: How powerful a telescope would allow me to view the astronauts aboard ISS do a space-walk?

TildalWaveThis has been done before, so I don't have to go through all the heavy calculations using Rayleigh criterion accounting for atmospheric diffraction and visible light wavelength. Ralf Vandebergh, a Dutch astronomer, professional photographer and veteran satellite spotter has been busy trying to do...

there's an animated gif showing what the problem is
OK... some smart software can iron out much of the atmospheric diffraction
but it's a problem for moving objects, because you'd need more frames of more or less the same image to do that
sweet!
well, keep in mind, colossus is a very different type of scope
so that might make additional difference
but maybe you are right
02:28
it's in IR range, right?
it is optimized for IR range
so it isn't useful to look at stars below NIR
or as useful
(from listening to the talk)
that is still prone to atmospheric effects ... I think they might wanna place it somewhere high in mountains
yeah, it needs to be cool too
for the mirrors
yarp ... usually to a few K
so, on an antarctican mountaintop :P
no, I don't think that low
it isn't a superconducting mirror :P
I think it is just <60 F my guess from the way he spoke
02:31
well NEOWISE is cooled to about 75°K
literally :)
that one is in IR range too
Wide-field Infrared Survey Explorer
or WISE
haha, I didn't even make that connection
coooool :D
you wanna remove as much heat from IR wavelength telescopes as possible, they're detecting heat afterall ... otherwise it's like using a visual wavelength telescope with your lights on
still, it shouldn't be too difficult to keep it well chilled ... liquid nitrogen isn't that expensive
ah mm
well they are detecting light
but heat emits the same light
02:37
and it's a nice clean gas that electronics and optics don't mind, it's actually used frequently for "nitrogen purging" of cleanrooms and satellites and such
well, if it's that cheap, I should get my local mayor to make public-city-wide air-conditioners :P
7
A: Why was the Hubble Space Telescope purged with nitrogen gas?

TildalWaveNitrogen is relatively inert diatomic (N2) gas, but also importantly, while there are other gases that refuse to react with much anything even more so, like e.g. Helium, Nitrogen is cheap since it's often a byproduct of industrial processes. It is also frequently readily available at scientific ...

just blow some liquid N all over :P
there we go ;)
heh, you get around. an answer for everything!
02:39
now I wonder how Emily Lakdawalla feels when she can answer nearly any questions with a link to some blog post of hers LOL
it's almost awkward :) someone might get a wrong impression I know stuff or something
lol
you are definitely passionate
I bet you have awesome google-fu and just google all the questions :P
I bet there is an xkcd for that
oh it is ... just google for "xkcd what would happen if wikipedia went offline"
02:45
honestly tho, I try to focus on one thing per day as far as questions and answers here go ... sure, it sometimes happens that we'd get more questions about nearly the same thing, but I do like reading about such stuff... sometimes too much and then need to hurry with real work LOL
And Wikipedia ... well, it's useful for references mostly, and sadly often wrong, so I wouldn't recommend it as a sole source. Unless it's just too convenient not to use it and it happens to be spot on ... but we did have some funny incidents on Astro.SE with too eager members trying to answer Wiki style
6
Q: Attribution of sources used in questions and answers

UV-DAny and all sources, particularly when we are quoting from another website, journal article, book etc. must be properly attributed to the source. Attributions can take the following forms (and folks are welcome to add to this): A link to the web source, this should contain the name of the arti...

this meta post followed then, there's some info what happened
it's funny now, but it wasn't so much in private beta when we didn't know if the site will even go to public beta or not
> I don't know - I didn't write the article.
someone was asked in comments as a followup on the "answer" and that was his reply ^
lol I was busy reading what-if.xkcd.com/13
@TildalWave well, wikipedia is waiting for YOU to fix it :D
@RealzSlaw well that's just the thing, when you start browsing through its suggested revisions on some articles that are clearly misleading, you then realize that many have tried before with no success and it just ended up in endless discussions between them... I don't like that approach, I much prefer this one on Stack Exchange then, with many answers and people can upvote the one they found most useful
Or upvote more than one ... whatever.
You know what I mean ;)
well it isn't a Q&A site, so it makes sense
Sort of it does, but I don't consider it as an authority on anything really ... I think it's still a healthy mindset to doubt its accuracy, especially on opinions and digests.
it is a useful resource, don't get me wrong, it's just ... well, like it was said many times in our meta, that you still have to stand by what you've quoted, and know why
well
from a cs perspective, wp seems right almost all the time
though it might be wrong on some nuances that I myself don't know better about :P
not always is there a better resource though
except some really complicated papers ... which you get references to on wikipedia ofc :P
02:58
oh I've found many "problems" in it with crypto for example, or InfoSec in general
maybe you are pedantic :P
jk
wp helped me with crypto classes, so it must be doing something right
:P
I know :P And no, I actually am not even close to being all too anal with everything. But security is one of those things that either you get it right, or you should've left it to someone else
@RealzSlaw you're from US?
@TildalWave yes
03:06
You had any better luck with the weather recently? I'm almost despairing here with cloud cover for almost 3 weeks now
lol, dunno, I live in NYC
the sky is perpetually orange
and, I don't have a telescope :/
Yes... I've seen some great shot of the eclipse through the early morning NYC smog LOL Still, the photo looked great
wow nice
03:09
If you look closely you can see the CO2 cloud over the Sun
it refracts it differently
 
5 hours later…
07:46
Blarghafp;kajsf
My internet link keeps dying on me; leaving all my other sessions logged in
08:19
Can the Oberth Effect be utilised each orbit?
 
4 hours later…
12:16
Hmmm rep went down by 5....
Lucky you )+: I lost 10
13:01
Weird....
Somebody deleted their profile, apparently
13:24
How is it there were no women astronauts in the Apollo program? ... or were there?
13:46
@Everyone I think that at the time most astronauts were former military test pilots.
14:06
@Donald.McLean What about this lady ... I forget her name ...
Right. She was soviet. Thanks
14:40
Nowadays, many of the astronauts are civilian, but even the military landscape has changed for the better.
15:31
@Donald.McLean There are those who would disagree (+:
'o @Undo
oh! I thought @Everyone was a keyword to ping everyone in a response
eyes @RealzSlaw auspiciously
serious, there goes a chat.SE feature ...
It does ping everyone. Just not everyone.
15:33
here! whom you calling a feature?
q+:
It was seriously annoying to lose this name over on IRC ...
haha
which network
Magicstar, DAL, efnet
15:35
You used IRC then?
@Undo How is it we have a tag for Rosetta, and not for Hayabusa?
I idle on dalnet and efnet, active on freenode
btw, there is a large ##astronomy channel on freenode
Umm... Because we don't have questions about Hayabusa?
hmm. what is a good server these days? back in my time there used to be jade, and lineone, and ugh ... tromso.se?
15:36
@Everyone EC2 + Ubuntu?
@Undo Then it's OK if I replace the tag jaxa on my question with hayabusa?
@Everyone well, if you are interested in programming and/or technical/STEM stuff, then freenode is good
@Everyone Go for it.
@Undo I meant IRC server (+:
Oh, lol.
15:38
posted on November 12, 2013

NASA's MAVEN (Mars Atmosphere and Volatile EvolutioN) spacecraft, inside a payload fairing, is hoisted to the top of a United Launch Alliance Atlas V rocket at the Vertical Integration Facility at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station's Space Launch Complex 41. The move and hoisting operations mark another major milestone for the launch team as everything proceeds on schedule to launch Nov. 18, when

@RealzSlaw I think I may have visited the c++ chan over on freenode waaayyy back - like 10+ years
@Everyone heh that channel is a madhouse
I haven't done any C++ in almost 15 years.
well every time I had a C++ q, it wasn't a trivial question, and I never got an answer (in that channel); instead, I would end up helping everyone else for a few hours :P
@Donald.McLean The ISO draft from the '96 recommendations were just in around that time - fun playing
15:40
@Realz I hope you know about:
I have to say that I'm really loving Scala.
@Donald.McLean Never used functional myself, too complex for me
@Undo lol, I do, but I hardly do C++ anymore
<=== simpleton
and I hardly have C++ questions :P
15:41
@RealzSlaw Any ++C questions?
@Everyone lol, my sense of humor is pitiful, I dunno what to respond
That was adequate.
N/m (+: just ragging you a bit
@Everyone That's the beauty of Scala - you don't have to use the functional parts, and still there's tons of good stuff.
Scala?
15:43
@Donald.McLean Recommendations (+: Web-based reference materiel?
I wonder whether @Tilda is going to throttle me for cheating on the 'comet' ToTW with that question
@Undo It's a JVM hybrid functional/OO programming language.
Oh. Heard of it.
@Everyone He has to catch you first. :-)
Huh. With that diamond of his ....
right. brb. Sir D wants out.
@Everyone When I started with Scala, I just learned the key syntactic differences and started writing Scala-fied Java, while I slowly learned the rest. On Coursera, they had a functional programming course in Scala that was quite enlightening.
15:47
I have to say that I like these 4k privs.
It can be painful and annoying reading my old code though.
Hah. Try my code sometimes
Albeit I did usually put comments in.
I put in comments in Lojban.
That have nothing to do with my code.
@Undo In The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress, one of the programming language choices is Loglan (the early name of Lojban).
hey, is it possible to invite someone to a room
15:54
Yes, all you need is chloroform, cable ties, and their password.
In the past I have gotten notifications when someone @ ed me in a chat room that I wasn't in.
@RealzSlaw Who do you want to invite?
no one in particular, but I wonder if that works
@Donald.McLean can you try that with me in some other room you are in
@RealzSlaw Check your "inbox" from the StackExchange pulldown at the top of the page on any SE site.
nope
@Donald.McLean you must have been in the room first
oh cool guests
@JohnB @PearsonArtPhoto hi
16:06
Hey @Realz
@RealzSlaw Not really guests. @PearsonArtPhoto is a mod.
lol
I didn't mean it that way :P
(I did look at their stats)
uh oh
I feel so defenseless!
@Donald.McLean oh sweet I figured it out
if you find a user's profile on chat.SE, there is a button "invite this user to"
16:16
@Everyone Why? It's about Philae that's gonna attempt to land on a . That tag is relevant.
16:27
Back
heh
@Tildal I know - you did say you'll pat my back (+:>
crawls beneath a Roc, and hides
pats @Everyone's back... hard! :))
What's "a Roc"? A gigantic mythological bird described in the Arabian Nights?
Not mythological (+: It's just a sometime visitor from another dimension
Why is the mass of the orbiting body relevant to it's orbital velocity?
@Everyone I don't think it is.
16:42
One of the equations on en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_speed uses the mass ... but I don't understand how/why
@Everyone have a mass big enough, and the body you wanted to orbit will orbit you :P
Sounds like being haunted to me q+:
then stop shifting barycenters :P
@Tildal Then the mass is really relevant to velocity in free-fall?
lol
Does SAA have any impact on propagation thereabouts?
South African Airways?
16:52
glares
South Atlantic Anomaly
Not sure, that'd be a good question on ham.se...
@Everyone I believe that takes into account the fact that as the masses become closer to equal, the smaller body starts exerting significant gravity on the larger body.
propagation of what?
Radio waves, of course;-)
of course :)
16:54
@PearsonArtPhoto My question! q+:
The SAA is something that Hubble has to be careful of.
@Donald.McLean Got you! (+: Thank you!
need to go, brb... but mass in orbit ... there's more to add to that. I'll let you chew through it on your own first tho :P
think ... what keeps you up there ;)
Votes from you all!
Hmm, some drama over chatbots going on at SU right now...
17:06
What is SU?
Super User.
Right ... don't mind me; distracted wby this propagation thingy
17:34
Sorry. Wasn't paying attention to the use of SU there
'me sleep now
'nini
@Undo what drama?
@Tildal Involving chatbots and automated greetings. The meta thingy is on the super user community bulletin.
6
Q: Some issues with a recent action that was taken regarding the Root Access chat bot

allquixoticI would like to discuss with some civility a recent action that has occurred in the Root Access chatroom. First, allow me to catch everyone up on the facts of the situation: Overview Q: What happened? A: Please see this message in Root Access chat. This decision is the primary reason for askin...

 Root Access

For all you Super Users out there. You have backups, right?
@Undo TL;DR but I tend to agree with @balpha more. Plus, last time I was in Root Access (might be a few months ago) the bot wasn't named "ChatBot John Cavil" but just "John Cavil"... Now, I did recognize the name as one of the bot models from Battlestar Galactica, but I still said hi back to it when it greeted me, and I honestly hadn't a clue it wasn't a genuine user.
And yes, while fun, some of its functions are stepping over the line of good taste, if nothing more
Manish's is the same, just without auto-greet.
I agree with balpha on everything except auto greet.
well it did confuse me personally, when I was first time in the room ... I really didn't have a clue it was a bot, until someone told me that I'm being courteous to a JavaScript LOL
also Super User chats have way more traffic than this one or the Astro one
i.e. if anyone would get confused over it, chances are someone would be here to explain it too ... and we didn't run it while nobody was here either
18:12
@ManishEarth So could I run that from a headless Linux server?
Yes. I plan to do that
I would like to do that!
I shall beat thee to it.
I know, we shall have two. And mine will win.
Besides, you can't give your bot write access to the room. I can.
18:14
Chatflag from the bridge.
I already have a user with explicit write access.
how did you get that?
Tracked down a sympathetic blue person.
Umm... why is @Everyone on our access list?
logs in to aws console
launches new ubuntu server
(because I don't want to break my WEB01 :)
ssh's into new server
@ManishEarth Do I need a LAMP stack?
Nope. Java, I think.
18:20
k
ubuntu@ip-10-147-225-200:/var/bot$ ls
master.zip  so-chatbot-driver-master
ubuntu@ip-10-147-225-200:/var/bot$ rm -rf master.zip
ubuntu@ip-10-147-225-200:/var/bot$ ls
so-chatbot-driver-master
ubuntu@ip-10-147-225-200:/var/bot$ cd so-chatbot-driver-master/
ubuntu@ip-10-147-225-200:/var/bot/so-chatbot-driver-master$ ls
build.xml  LICENSE-2.0.txt  README.md  src  third_party
@Manish Okay, so what do I do now?
Check out the readme
I think you need ant
Oh, yeah.
sudo apt-get install ant. Wow. Ant is big.
And got a 403 when installing it. Eh??!!
Oh, working now.
ubuntu@ip-10-147-225-200:/var/bot/so-chatbot-driver-master$ ant
Unable to locate tools.jar. Expected to find it in /usr/lib/jvm/java-6-openjdk-amd64/lib/tools.jar
Buildfile: /var/bot/so-chatbot-driver-master/build.xml

create_run_jar:

BUILD FAILED
/var/bot/so-chatbot-driver-master/build.xml:16: destination directory "/var/bot/so-chatbot-driver-master/bin" does not exist or is not a directory

Total time: 0 seconds
I think I'm doing it wrong.
18:37
/opt/testing/so-chatbot-driver/build.xml:16: Compile failed; see the compiler error output for details.
I created the bin folder, still no worky
weird. Any ideas?
nope
GitHub issues it
I'm half tempted to just make a virtual screen.
Wait, EC2 can't connect to SE, can it?
:(
18:55
@Undo why not?
@ManishEarth I thought I read somewhere the EC2 IP's were banned due to abuse.
Oh, right
yes, you is correct
hahahaha
haha
hahahaha
So... I'm kind of stuck :(
Me, on the other hand, is not blocked. Time to dominate!
Wait, but I can tunnel through an EC2 instance. What gives?
19:00
@Undo hmm
Maybe it has to do with already having cookies?
possibly?
that's interesting though
@Undo What happens if you tunnel through and use incognito and then attempt to log in?
I dunno.
But I can always just grab my cookies from my local machine and put them on the server if that's the case, right?
Well, yes, but cookies expire
True. Dangit.
19:18
need fresh cookies
Stale cookies are terrible.
posted on November 12, 2013 by Meredith Rawls

Our Solar System is pretty straightforward. Roughly speaking, all the planets orbit in the same plane, most spin on their axes in the same direction in that plane, and even the Sun rotates in a manner consistent with all this. The small, rocky planets are closer to the Sun, and the big, gaseous planets are farther from the Sun. Simple. Now that we are finding planets orbiting other stars, many

oddballs having group therapy
@Manish Just logged in to SO over RDP in EC2.
:P
Wait, over RDP?
EC2 gives you a virtual desktop?
19:26
@ManishEarth Installed Ubuntu-desktop.
So VNC.
This is me from EC2 :D
@Everyone no mine is an 'unupvote'
Oy!
I am about to become a chatbot!
19:42
I give up.
@Manish wins!
I gave up a long time ago
You should never talk about giving up on the internets. Chances are you'll get rickrolled :P
okay
Food time. Midnight snacks yum!
20:10
I thought mogwais aren't allowed to eat past midnight
20:23
@ManishEarth Midnight? It's 15:23 here, lol...
@Undo Should have installed lubuntu-desktop.
 
1 hour later…
 
2 hours later…
23:42
I just figured out how to flag comments through the POST API. @Manish would be proud.
@Undo that sounds ominous to me
:))
rubs hands together
The SO mods are going to absolutely hate me.
73 comment flags every 24 hours! This is going to be fun!
Plus 73 normal post flags I can use...
Equals flag domination!
oh there's loads of mods on SO
Yeah, there are loads of flags too.
I sense SO mod election coming soon to your town :)
23:56
lol. We just had one in February.

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