The Pod Bay

Donald.McLean

04:39

@PearsonArtPhoto I think Space is fourth for me, behind SF, Movies & TV, and Code Review.

UV-D

08:26

@PearsonArtPhoto Space is third for me - behind Academia and Astro

UV-D

09:57

@TildalWave?!

TildalWave

10:12

@UV-D sup? g'day :)

@PearsonArtPhoto hehe it's my numero uno now... I was a bit hesitant to go over the rep I gathered on Sec.SE tho, and put my SEx.SE rep vehicle in a parking orbit for a short while: stackexchange.com/users/2211833/tildalwave?tab=reputation Took me maybe a few days tho... who knows, maybe space exploration InfoSec becomes a big thing once, and I'll be happy like a porcupine then :)

Porcupines .... in ..... spaaaaaace!

or maybe security monkeys.... in.... spaaaace? :D

UV-D

10:37

@TildalWave oh the usual madness

how are you?

TildalWave

I'm fine, more or less... a bit annoyed by this high hanging fog lingering over the city for the past days... I should sit my ass on a bike and escape it for a while in nearby hills or something

UV-D

I have just been flat out this week...

lots of stress-potential = changing jobs - interviews etc, then moving soon, the cancer scare, work work work

TildalWave

yeah but you're moving closer to summer down there so some vacation time ought to be on the horizon, no?

UV-D

10:52

yes, yes it is... and badly needed

and during our summer, I'll become Dr. UV-D

but I am still as dumb as a box of rocks

PearsonArtPhoto

12:24

Juno went in to safe mode... Awe...

That means that while I tried to talk to it, I'll probably never find out if I succeeded. At least I'll get a QSL card from it, I hope...

PearsonArtPhoto

12:36

I bet it's a power issue. If there's only one eclipse during the entire mission, it's entirely possible the batteries didn't hold through it as would be desired.

@TildalWave I've still got to more than double my reputation here to pass SFF, but still, it's an accomplishment.

TildalWave

@PearsonArtPhoto Ready to answer last question here about Juno safe mode?

Everyone

@PearsonArtPhoto You got your antenna pointed in time? Cool!

'o @TildalWave

We had an overcast here; just when it was time to ogle Juno in all her splendor too!

splendOur

TildalWave

@Everyone Which safe mode it entered? There's two modes... with attitude knowledge or without it

Everyone

throttles auto spell correct

TildalWave

> In safe mode, the spacecraft goes into a configuration that is power positive, thermally stable,
and commandable. Juno has two types of safe mode, depending on whether three-axis attitude
knowledge is retained or not. If attitude knowledge is retained, the spacecraft pointing (including
that of the antenna toward Earth) is not changed. If attitude knowledge is lost, the spacecraft will
“cone” within 2 deg of the Sun. That is, the solar panel pointing to the Sun will describe a cone
with 2-deg radius centered on the Sun.

@PearsonArtPhoto Wanna equip your answer with Juno safe mode operational parameters? It's all here: descanso.jpl.nasa.gov/DPSummary/… (PDF!)

Everyone

12:43

@TildalWave: Oooooh. Nice! snatches the link

TildalWave

seems to me, dunno basing my opinion on your answer actually because I'm not up to date with current events (like per usual LOL), that the "normal" safe mode was entered due to what you described

PearsonArtPhoto

@TildalWave Sure, why not. Thanks!

TildalWave

np

PearsonArtPhoto

@Everyone I have an essentially omni antenna, so...

TildalWave

page 63: 3.2.3.4 Safe Mode

an bits and pieces all over the document

some photos of the high-gain antenna too

PearsonArtPhoto

12:45

Working on it.

Everyone

@PearsonArtPhoto: Oh .. ok. What're your working conditions? A colleague (received his ticket a week back) is making a trip to the US and looking for a handie during his visit. He's shortlisted the F6A

@PearsonArtPhoto Wondering about what accessories he ought to purchase during the trip

LGA/MGA - Low/Medium Gain Antenna?

What's "hyphen-invasion alert"?

TildalWave

13:02

@Everyone hehe your use of loads of hyphenated words

Can safe-mode on a space-craft be by-passed?

what's wrong with safe mode and spacecraft and bypassed?

Juno passing by over Europe

England, to be more precise

There's a bigger version here: spaceweathergallery.com/…

@PearsonArtPhoto any idea why would it have such a tumble?

PearsonArtPhoto

Could be a wierd geometry with the 3 solar panels. Hmmm.

Everyone

I told you the number 3 was unlucky q+: Scroll up!

@TildalWave: only safe mode is a word 'spacecraft' is no more a word than is 'submarine'

@PearsonArtPhoto: Just posted a comment

TildalWave

13:17

@Everyone I honestly haven't a clue what you mean... OK so it's a combination of two words, but it's still written mostly without any hyphens in between. I'm no linguist, mind you.

Everyone

No worries (+: the hyphen afaik is used to coalesce two words to be read and interpreted as a single entity

but it's over 20 years since last I had to appear before my English language teacher

TildalWave

you mean same as if no hyphen is used at all? :P

Everyone

LOL yes. Apparently grammar provides the hyphen for that very purpose

TildalWave

I realize it can be written "space craft", "space-craft", or simply spacecraft but I still find it rather curious to use hyphens so much... maybe it's my proximity to Germany tho, dunno LOL

Everyone

no worries. call me old-fashioned (+:

PearsonArtPhoto

13:21

I still bet it's power related.

Everyone

(see there I go again)

@PearsonArtPhoto: It's just a thought ; I may well be wrong

TildalWave

I prefer to use non-hyphenated words :D

Donaudampfschiffahrtsgesellschaftskapitän

PearsonArtPhoto

Either that, or a Amateur Radio operator blasted it with so much power that it entered safe mode;-)

TildalWave

"Some German words are so long that they have a perspective." Mark Twain

2

@PearsonArtPhoto hehe that would be cool if it's true :) but I have a feeling that your assertion might be the right explanation for it, it makes perfect sense

PearsonArtPhoto

Spacecraft don't do well when they transition from regular eclipses to "full sun", or from no eclipses to having eclipses. It takes a lot of work to get the balance just right...

called2voyage

13:29

@TildalWave Probably sooner rather than later, if private enterprise does well.

@UV-D You should totally change your username to "Dr. UV-D" when that happens. If not, I will still call you that.

@Everyone Frequently in English we agglutinate two words as a single word without a hyphen. For example, 'ice cream'.

Everyone

@PearsonArtPhoto: That could be possible; all we need to do is find out how many operators worked QRO

@called2voyage Greetings (+:

called2voyage

@Everyone Hello

Everyone

@TildalWave: Mark Twain never had the opportunity to acquaint himself with Sanskrit words

called2voyage

hehe

I know what you mean

Everyone

(+:

Undo

13:34

@UV-D FWIW, I strongly believe that you are telling a lie about being a box of rocks. If you are a box of rocks, please submit yourself for some kind of record: The Smartest Box Of Rocks Ever.

2

called2voyage

I run into a lot of Sanskrit when looking over Hindu texts

Frequently the English translations leave a lot of words untranslated...often they determine them to be proper nouns or what not.

Sometimes they can be ridiculously long (from an English language perspective)

Everyone

There's a lot of it around; it's almost as mathematical as latin - only Sanskrit phrases are often used out-of-context as a matter of ritual. Sanskrit, as I remember from school, coalescence rules are formidable. Split a word a different way, and the whole perspective changes

called2voyage

Sigh There's not enough time in the world to learn all the interesting things out there.

Everyone

They can be ridiculously long even from an indic language perspective q+: Plus the fact the devnagari script was down-sized by the rashtrabhasha hindi script. Lots of kids don't even recognize some alphabets

called2voyage

I'll just have to fous on space 8)

ManishEarth

13:39

@Everyone yep

TildalWave

BTW did you know that the word asteroid was originally coined to describe rocky space travelers? articles.sun-sentinel.com/2013-10-08/news/…

called2voyage

@TildalWave Um, that's just their poetic way of saying that asteroid was coined to describe asteroids.

The significant thing here is who coined the term.

TildalWave

well according to the article, it wasn't William Herschel, but Charles Burney Jr.

called2voyage

right

which is interesting

Everyone

googles 'Charles Burney Jr'

TildalWave

13:45

LOL

called2voyage

I wonder how old Burney Jr. was at the time

Everyone

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Burney_(scholar)
_only child Charles Parr Burney (1785–1864), _

TildalWave

so 17

Everyone

aye; the terrible teen

TildalWave

In 1802? You'd have a wife and a few children by that age on average, if you were a man. But yes, we grow ever slower and might still be boys at 30 nowadays

Everyone

13:54

In 1802 the Industrial Revolution was already beginning to make it's presence felt. But the communities were much smaller ; it would be reasonable under the circumstances to expect the lad to settle down. But kids at 17 ... ?

I wonder whether there is a social perspective required for space exploration. Hm ... done right this might make a good question

trots off to run household chores with Sir Dumpty

TildalWave

15:06

Ran into Juno team member. Spacecraft is still safed but sounds like everything is ok and they got most of their earth data. Phew #dps13

Tweeted by PlanetDr on October 10, 2013 at 2:39 PM

Stack Exchange

15:28

astrobites: Generating the First Map of Clouds on an Exoplanet

posted on October 10, 2013 by Shannon Hall

An international team of astronomers have used data from NASA’s Kepler and Spitzer space telescopes to create the first map of clouds on an exoplanet.

Undo

15:41

@JohnB !!!

JohnB

@Undo !!!!

Undo

@JohnB !!!!!

JohnB

what is up

Undo

Not much, except that Juno is kind of in danger.

TildalWave

16:06

Meanwhile, over the Pacific north of Antarctica, wonder casts a spell #ThingsNASAMightTweet http://t.co/BHnyubn1Uy

Tweeted by FragileOasis on October 10, 2013 at 11:02 AM

@JohnB!!! @Undo!!!

MT @cosmos4u: Amateur astrometry confirms: the #junoflyby worked! For #Juno *is* on course to Jupiter now: http://remanzacco.blogspot.it/2013/10/juno-spacecraft-flyby.html

Tweeted by elakdawalla on October 10, 2013 at 2:00 PM in reply to cosmos4u

Juno probably just contracted the shutdown virus flying so close to the US government

Everyone

16:27

@TildalWave What is that image?

TildalWave

@Everyone aurora borealis from ISS

there were some nice photos this year of them from noth CA

I'll try to find a nice ground one brb

Everyone

pretty! and what is that thingummy in the middle of the frame?

TildalWave

taken a week ago

Mobile Servicing System

The Mobile Servicing System (MSS), better known by its primary component Canadarm2, is a robotic system and associated equipment on the International Space Station (ISS). Launched to the ISS in 2001, it plays a key role in station assembly and maintenance; it moves equipment and supplies around the station, supports astronauts working in space, and services instruments and other payloads attached to the ISS. Astronauts receive specialized training to enable them to perform these functions with the various systems of the MSS. The MSS is composed of the actual arm called Space Station Rem...

Everyone

It looks like Moria from afar!

TildalWave

What's Moria?

Everyone

16:33

Good grief ... hang on, i'll get you a link en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moria_(Middle-earth)

TildalWave

anyway this is what's there on that photo, just not extended

and without an astronaut having fun with it

Everyone

haha the astronaut does look as if it's having fun

as in norty fun

You know, we never got around to discussing a minimal propulsion system

TildalWave

@Everyone farting?

Everyone

Nope. I discussed biological propulsion over in Physics before SEx came along

Seriously now. How small can a propulsion system for in-space ops be?

TildalWave

really small

think model rocketry engines

Everyone

16:38

Hm .. a little large for what I had in mind

*I think

TildalWave

@Everyone there's smaller stuff ... but I dunno what you had in mind

Everyone

Did you ever watch any of those Star Wars movies, or read one of them novels?

They have this concept of an astromech, who can fiddle around with the systems on command or autonomously

TildalWave

yup I watched a few ... the old ones ... I fell asleep on the new ones and I got annoyed by that war of the clones one too much I went for an ice cream and never returned LOL

Everyone

I wasn't going that far, but something like a swiss army knife on a tether to do bits and pieces

Now we know why the clones executed Order 66; you didn't get them ice-cream

Tsk!

TildalWave

there you go again ... hyphens!!

Everyone

16:42

Pish tish

TildalWave

ice-cream

I went for an ice cream, but you're right I didn't get an ice-cream, I got an ice+cream :P

Everyone

My puir hyphens; you keep at them so

TildalWave

just joking

Everyone

no worries (+: look now, you've woken @called2voyage up

So why is Juno in danger?

called2voyage

@Everyone It is no longer apparently.

TildalWave

16:46

#Juno probably just contracted the #governmentshutdown virus flying so close to ground. Earth was bad influence, off to Jupiter. Godspeed!

Tweeted by TildalWave on October 10, 2013 at 4:15 PM

called2voyage

37 mins ago, by TildalWave

MT @cosmos4u: Amateur astrometry confirms: the #junoflyby worked! For #Juno *is* on course to Jupiter now: http://remanzacco.blogspot.it/2013/10/juno-spacecraft-flyby.html

Tweeted by elakdawalla on October 10, 2013 at 2:00 PM in reply to cosmos4u

Everyone

On course != out-of-danger

Undo

@Everyone True.

called2voyage

@Everyone True, but "out of danger for now"

TildalWave

@Everyone perhaps not the best tweet ... I posted another one, more promising

called2voyage

16:47

@Everyone so if out of danger gets hyphens, why not "on course"

TildalWave

2 hours ago, by TildalWave

Ran into Juno team member. Spacecraft is still safed but sounds like everything is ok and they got most of their earth data. Phew #dps13

Tweeted by PlanetDr on October 10, 2013 at 2:39 PM

Everyone

@called2voyage typo!

Til: Saw that post; does that mean whatever instruments were running during the fly-by did their task?

TildalWave

@Everyone Gotta be careful with those. There's a huge difference in my bank-account balance is $1M and my bank account balance is -$1M :P

Everyone

@TildalWave: Yep. If my bank-account has a balance of $1M I'm wasting money. On the other hand, if my bank-account has a balance of -$1M, the bank has a big problem waiting to raise it's head! q+:

Did I ever tell you guys about the infernal mail thing?

TildalWave

@Everyone Well it would suggest Juno was/is in "normal" safe mode (with attitude data)... so, yes. Most of systems would still work, but transmission data rate would be lower than when not in any safe mode at all. So I guess they'll just receive those data a bit later (i.e. it'll take longer)

Everyone

16:52

What is MGA anyway? Medium Gain Antenna?

TildalWave

I guess so

Everyone

I'm still a little confused about those batteries

TildalWave

why?

Everyone

If the batteries were unable to retain charge from sunlight this deep in the Solar System just 2 years after launch, wouldn't it be likely they'll degrade still further in the next two years ? Especially as their exposure to Jupiter's family growls?

Chris

If it was the batteries, it was probably a battery sizing issue as opposed to a degradation issue

imo just saying "it's the batteries" doesn't really do much to allay any fears, since it went into safe mode "unexpectedly", meaning they were expecting to survive

Everyone

17:09

Forgive me if I'm dense, 'sizing'? battery capacity?

Chris

yes, that's what i mean

Everyone

Just making sure (+: That's what concerns me too; the eclipse lasted barely a half-an-hour

Chris

but like the answer(s) state.. safe mode can be triggered by any number of things... maybe it's eclipse-related, maybe not

even if it is, maybe it was a thermal issue, for instance

meanwhile, they're still trying to figure out what's what from the falcon 9 launch

Everyone

Quite so; just thinking aloud on my part

TildalWave

18:04

@Chris proximity alert? :D

Juno closed her eyes

oh noes, not Earth again!

PearsonArtPhoto

18:39

@Everyone All of the press releases say that it was the only eclipse of the mission. That indicates to me the final orbit will not be in eclipse, and batteries don't matter much if you aren't going through eclipse for a solar satellite.

@Chris I blame the government shutdown.

They have positively identified the rocket body, and nothing else. Wow...

Although based on the fact that the rocket is object g, I strongly suspect they have a pretty good idea of what a-f are.

Objects Q-U appear to be decaying, or separated early from the Falcon. Maybe payload fairing and related?

Actually, looks like 2 of the objects already decayed. Hmmm...

Chris

19:16

@PearsonArtPhoto good call - aviationweek.com/Article.aspx?id=/article-xml/…

even the operators have been unsure, from what i saw

the DANDE twitter feed announced they just figured out which object they were... a day or two ago

plus there was the one object that had a massive RCS - like 20 or 30 i think

I also wonder if it's a little bit due to the Fence shutdown..

PearsonArtPhoto

The massive one was the booster, I believe. Will double-check...

The largest RCS is around 14, and that's being pegged as the upper stage F9.

Chris

there was one that was larger

not that object

i think it's zeroed out now

i'm assuming the objects that decayed were pieces of insulation or something...

PearsonArtPhoto

Could be.

Chris

which while benign, is still unusual

PearsonArtPhoto

0

Q: What are the mystery F9 objects?

There are 22 objects in orbit associated with the Falcon 9 v 1.1 launch. So far only 1 has been identified. 5 were associated with the launch, plus the booster and some debris. Bottom line, 11 objects were expected, and 11 are unexpected. What are the other objects?

Talk about it in chat long enough, it's time to open a question.

TildalWave

19:36

@PearsonArtPhoto Good measure? :P

PearsonArtPhoto

20:06

Looks to me the most interesting ones will be objects M, N, P, and Q.

Oh, and V, don't forget V.

Here's my $0.02.

0

A: What are the mystery Falcon 9 v 1.1 objects?

Here's what's known about them, from a bit of analysis. First of all, there was only 21, the letter O must be skipped because of it's closeness to the number 0 Object G is the booster. It has the largest RCS, and JSPOC has identified it as such. A-F would be likely candidates for the primary pa...

David Freitag

I don't have 2¢, only plastic :\

Chris

O was indeed changed for that reason

as was I, for a similar reason

PearsonArtPhoto

I guess I missed there was no I. Sigh.

Okay, fixed that. My 20 now matches the worlds 20. Whew!

Chris

'I' became 'U', and 'O' became 'V'

PearsonArtPhoto

Oh, so the used to be I and O, and they changed them to avoid confusion? That helps explain a bit.

Chris

20:19

yup

apparently it's a typical thing

PearsonArtPhoto

That explains why U matches the properties of H-L so well...

Chris

H,J,L may be pieces from POPACS

which comprises 3 balls and 4 spacers

CUsat was supposed to be a pair of free flying satellites, but i think i read somewhere that the mission was changed and they were not going to separate

PearsonArtPhoto

21:18

Could be. Will be interesting to see how close I was when all is said and done.

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