Discussion between AgentPaper and Tiggerous

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09:44

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A: Could I use a Greatsword and a Longsword in one turn with Two-weapon fighting and dual wielding feat?

You need to be holding both weapons when you Attack in order to use Two-Weapon Fighting You have the Dual Wielder feat, so it doesn't matter that neither weapon is light. So far so good, however: The Two-Weapon Fighting rules state: When you take the Attack action and attack with a light me...

AgentPaper

You're correct, but for the wrong reasons. The two-weapon fighting rules you quote don't actually say you need to have both weapons in the appropriate hands when you attack with them. In fact, it contradicts this when it talks about thrown weapons, saying you can throw either weapon instead of making a melee attack. Going by your interpretation, that would mean that after throwing your first weapon, you wouldn't be able to throw the other, as you no longer have both in hand.

Tiggerous

I disagree - see this related question.

AgentPaper

A wrong answer to another question isn't proof. The rules don't say what you claim they do, as you said yourself. Designer intent may be on your side, but there's no reason to resort to that when there is a RAW answer already available.

Tiggerous

@AgentPaper I think we'll have to agree to disagree.

AgentPaper

Well, given your edit you apparently do agree with me, the answer is correct now. I don't know why you feel like you can't admit that you were wrong, but I've removed my downvote regardless.

Tiggerous

09:44

@AgentPaper I'm now confused about what you were disagreeing with in the first place - I haven't taken anything out of my answer, I've just added a extra point that you had convinced me of. Anything you disagreed with is still there.

AgentPaper

I disagreed that "you must have both weapons in hand" was the correct answer to the question. You added my answer ("you must attack with a weapon in one hand"), so the answer is now correct overall.

Tiggerous

But if you disagreed then surely half of it is still incorrect?

AgentPaper

It still has your other answer, but only as backup to further reinforce, so that isn't incorrect, just unnecessary (in my opinion).

I still think my answer is better for being brief, but obviously I'm biased. :)

Tiggerous

I think your answer is better too.

I always did - I only disagreed that my answer was ever wrong.

AgentPaper

Well I guess that gets into details such as whether an incomplete answer is wrong or not. Anyways it seems things are clear now which is good.

Tiggerous

09:48

Just becasue you presented a more elegant solution doesn't mean that a less elegant solution is wrong. It's just less elegant.

CreatonsOfMyOwn

Are you guys gonna keep arguing about slight differences or provide some insight into why not because i am still confused.

Tiggerous

What are you confused about?

Two weapon fighting says 'when you take the Attack action and attack with a [...] melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand'. That's impossible to do with a greatsword.

You can hold a greatsword in one hand when you're not using it, but you can never actually attack with it in only one hand.

CreatonsOfMyOwn

I wouldn't be attacking with it after the first two initial attacks is what i am saying i would just be holding it while i attack with my offhand

Tiggerous

But if you never attacked with a weapon 'that you're holding in one hand' then you never met the criteria to be eligible to take that bonus action.

CreatonsOfMyOwn

You guys started i couldn't attack with a two weapon sword with one hand.. That's not what I'm asking I'm asking could i attack with that weapon first draw my offhand weapon and use my bonus attack while just holding it

Stated*

Tiggerous

10:03

We're both saying No - that's not how the rule works.

It doesn't matter how you're holding it after you use it. What matters is how mnay hands you used when you actually attacked.

CreatonsOfMyOwn

Okay i understand now that's what i was wondering so a two hand initiated attack will just always be that then no interchanging

Tiggerous

I'm afraid not - however there is a way to cheese the system.

CreatonsOfMyOwn

How so?

Tiggerous

If you have Extra Attack you could attack with your Greatsword for your first attack. Drop it on the floor, for a free action. Draw two longswords at once using your Dual Wielder Feat as your free object interaction. Extra attack with one longsword and then bonus attack with the other longsword.

Obviously you could only do that once in a combat - becuase now your greatsword is on the floor.

Sdjz

25

Q: Can I Two-Weapon fight after Two-Handed-Weapon fighting?

Pick a class that has access to the Extra Attack feature. For my example, I'll use my standby, Fighter McFighterson. Let us say that McFighterson is 20th level, and possesses the Dual Wielder feat. He is currently holding a greatsword, and has two longswords accessible. As a reminder, two weapo...

That's what you are referring there

Tiggerous

10:09

Yeah - it is.

As you can see it's a contentious ruling - but arguable.

CreatonsOfMyOwn

Okay that sounds like a coup De grace all or nothing finisher type move i can dig it.. But with all of this being said do i even get my bonus attack if i decided on just attacking three times with the great sword or is it i could do that but just not get the ability modifier perk with it

Tiggerous

Sorry , I'm not sure what you're asking now - How could you attack three times with a greatsword?

CreatonsOfMyOwn

First attack then the extra attack then I'm asking if i still get the bonus attack or is that just the perk of twf only with dual wielding is what I'm asking

I guess i worded that wrong i meant two with a monus not three with a bonus

Bonus*

Tiggerous

it's only with dual wielding.

You could get four greatsword attacks with the Fighter class feature Action Surge though.

CreatonsOfMyOwn

Gotcha well thank you guys this has been informative i guess i gotta start thinking which setup is more efficient now

The 2nd level one? Or the two you get at the other level I forgot which

Sdjz

10:23

Action Surge is the 2nd level fighter feature that let's you take another action during your turn so if you use the Attack action for both your normal action and the action granted by Action Surge you can do 4 attacks with a greatsword in a turn (once per short rest)

Also discussed here:

29

Q: Does a fighter's Action Surge trigger Extra Attack?

Context A player in my game will play a fighter with a greatsword. At 5th level he has Extra Attack and the option to use Action Surge. PHB p.72 states: Action Surge. Starting at 2nd level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additio...

dnd-5e class-feature actions attack fighter

CreatonsOfMyOwn

How does an extra action equate to two extra hits is it basically a reset then?

Sdjz

The Action granted by Action Surge is a normal Action, like the one you usually have on your turn (and not a "bonus action"). Since Extra Attack works with using your normal Action to take the Attack action, here is what happens on your turn:

Normal Action: Attack action: attack once, then attack again from Extra Attack

Action Surge, take another Attack action: attack once, then attack again from Extra Attack

and you still have a bonus action available for something else if you want (no two weapon fighting though if you only attacked with the greatsword)

CreatonsOfMyOwn

So how do I get the forth attack if i can't use the bonus action if I'm using a great sword?

Sdjz

Hm perhaps the confusion is from the fact that Action Surge is granting you an "additional Action" which is a different thing from a "bonus action"?

In the situation I described above you can count 4 attacks, right?

2 with the normal action Attack plus another 2 with the action granted by Action Surge

CreatonsOfMyOwn

10:38

Sorry I'm just getting confused as to there the extra rogue action comes from i thought action surge just grants you one extra action bare with me I'm new to this

Sdjz

Ah no worries, let me go into more details here then

So normally a character with no abilities at all can take an action per turn, right? One of the options they have is to take an Attack action which allows you to make a single attack (note the difference here, one Attack action (uppercase A) let's you make a single attack (lowercase a))

When you have a feature like Extra Attack, it states:

> Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.

This means that now, each time you choose to spend your action on an "Attack action" you can actually make two attacks

all clear so far?

CreatonsOfMyOwn

Yes

Sdjz

Ok now Action Surge is not granting an extra attack (lowercase), it is granting you an additional full action:

> Starting at 2nd level, you can push yourself beyond your normal limits for a moment. On your turn, you can take one additional action.

You could use this additional action for anything: you could choose to Dodge, Dash, etc, or you could also use it to take an Attack action again

CreatonsOfMyOwn

Which would be another two consider those fall under one action correct?

Sdjz

exactly

CreatonsOfMyOwn

10:46

I get it now

Sdjz

this is completely different from two weapon fighting

CreatonsOfMyOwn

So normally a great sword is two per attack outside of twf

Sdjz

because two weapon fighting is granting you an additional attack (lowercase) and not an Attack action

CreatonsOfMyOwn

And dual wielding with twf gives me that extra singular attack

So a consistent three as apposed to two with a great sword with one opportunity for four attacks?

Sdjz

well actually they are not mutually exclusive like that

CreatonsOfMyOwn

10:49

Now I'm confused again lmao

Sdjz

hold on let me elaborate

when using a greatsword you have 2 attacks all the time, and 4 if you action surge

if you are using 2 one handed weapons and using twf, you can have 2 attacks from the Attack action and then 1 more from twf

that part is all correct

however!

even when using twf you can also use action surge, you would then have 2 attacks from the normal action, 2 more from action surge and a single one from twf for a total of 5 (once per short rest)

CreatonsOfMyOwn

Ahh i see

You know what now I'm debating on even using a great sword or walking around with two greatswords and two longswords one to drop for the cheese strat if i could carry all of that

Thanks guys you gave me a lot to think about

Oh wait also i presume my strength modifier applies to all correct?

Sdjz

any attack you get from an Attack action gets your modifier (so that includes action surge Attack action). For the twf additional attack you only get your modifier if you take the Two-Weapon Fighting fighting style

You also don't really need 2 greatswords, (unless you are planning on dropping them a lot)

CreatonsOfMyOwn

Okay sweet i have the brute class too even though i know its unofficial still so i can stack on stack on stack this character has me really excited to play

Sdjz

@CreatonsOfMyOwn Oh can you link that class? it may have stuff that changes what we were just disscussing

Is it this one?

dndbeyond.com/subclasses/brute

CreatonsOfMyOwn

11:09

Yeah that's the one

Sdjz

ah that's alright then, and the Brute Force thing works with all attacks (just needs any attack to hit) which does seem to benefit twf a bit

CreatonsOfMyOwn

11:23

Thanks again for the insight

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Discussion between AgentPaper and Tig…