English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

00:22

@Cerberus Did you know that “Zaragoza”, the city in Aragon, is a corruption of Caesar Augusta? I must have known that before, and only just now noticed it again.

Cerberus

02:05

@tchrist Oh, that funny. Makes sense, though.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

02:57

@tchrist China had movable type before Europe did.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

03:18

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 yeah? I know they had wood cuts first.

does that count?

brb custard

David Wallace

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Ouch, that sounds SO MUCH worse than a paper cut.

Mahnax

03:45

Good evening.

David Wallace

Hello Mah.

Mahnax

Hi David! How are things?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@DavidWallace LOL

mmmmcustard

David Wallace

Ooh, I HATE custard. But that might be because of my sister.

Mahnax

Ugh, I have surgery on Tuesday.

hides in hidey-sack

David Wallace

03:57

Ooh dear. I hope it's nothing serious.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@DavidWallace what?

@Mahnax WHAT?

Mahnax

Toenails are ingrown.

It's no longer manageable.

David Wallace

My sister loved custard. When we were kids, whenever we had custard, she would make a big show of being as disgusting as possible while eating it. Making sure everyone could see when she had a mouthful of custard, and displaying it on her tongue. It has put me off custard for life.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

@Mahnax owieeeee

@DavidWallace say no more! Sheesh.

David Wallace

I still remember being made fun of after saying "Mum, Catherine's flaunting her custard again", on one occasion.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

04:00

I wore a pair of cheap earrings a long time ago, and one of them became infected. My ear eventually grew over the earring back.

David Wallace

But it seemed like the right verb at the time.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Ooh, so you have metal inside your ear?

Mahnax

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Oh no!

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I had it removed, and a single stitch installed.

Mahnax

I'm on antibiotics for my toes, but they don't help.

David Wallace

@Mahnax I bet they help more than you can imagine.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

04:01

@Mahnax :x

I hope they get better very soon.

Mahnax

@DavidWallace I was just put on them a week ago. So far, they haven't done anything noticeable.

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Well, this surgery is [purportedly] a long-term solution.

David Wallace

So where is the Control Mahnax for comparison?

Mahnax

@DavidWallace Fortunately, there is only one Mahnax.

I'm not sure that this world could handle two.

David Wallace

Well, good luck with the surgery, regardless of whether the antibiotics are helping.

I occasionally have problems with my toenails too, so you have my sympathy.

Mahnax

Thanks. I'm really hoping it solves this, because after two years of bad toenails, I'm a little sick of them.

its_me

04:21

Hello. Does anyone know what all fall under <em>Personal Technology</em>? Computers and Gadgets for sure. How about Auto (bikes & cars)?

David Wallace

Not usually, no.

Mostly it means laptops, cellphones, MP3 players, iPads and related stuff. Not motorbikes or cars.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

04:39

And Jarvik-7 artificial hearts.

its_me

@DavidWallace Thought so. Just wanted to be sure.

Thanks!

David Wallace

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 You what?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Robert Jarvik

Robert Koffler Jarvik, M.D. (born May 11, 1946) is an American scientist, researcher and entrepreneur known for his role in developing the Jarvik-7 artificial heart. Early life Robert Jarvik was born in Midland, Michigan to Norman Eugene Jarvik and Edythe Koffler Jarvik, and raised in Stamford, Connecticut. He is the nephew of Murray Jarvik, a pharmacologist who was the co-inventor of the nicotine patch. Jarvik is a graduate of Syracuse University. He earned a master’s degree in medical engineering from New York University. Career After being admitted to the University of Utah School o...

That's pretty personal.

I must go to bed.

pourjour

05:52

what is the form of "must" in the past]

Cerberus

@pourjour Must. It is the same as the present.

Now it's bed time, bye!

pourjour

@Cerberus bye

@Cerberus even in the reported speech

Cerberus

@pourjour Sure.

You can use had to if you want to avoid past must.

Bye!

pourjour

@Cerberus ok, thanks have a good night

Cerberus

poof

TemporaryNickName

06:11

guys

does it make sense? "This is a question driven by curiosity"

ok I am freaking hungry. BRB!

TemporaryNickName

08:01

0

Q: How MySQL blob actually works?

This is a question driven by curiosity. I am learning Oracle database and Oracle database handles Blob data in a separate tablespace, which I believe reduces overhead while trying to read large Blob data. I am wondering how MySQL handles Blob? I am actually planning to start a project and I wish ...

Andrew Leach

10:09

@TemporaryNickName In the sense that curiosity was the "motive force" that made the question appear, then yes (eg, a car is driven by its engine). It's interesting that someone can be driven to ask a question [again by curiosity] but that means compelled, which isn't quite what driven means here.

Saladin

anyone

home i need hlep

@AndrewLeach

Andrew Leach

@Saladin I'm not going to be here for much longer, but if you say what the problem is someone will help when they're in (if I can't in the meantime).

Saladin

10:37

@AndrewLeach

u gone

i just need quick help

@Robusto

Andrew Leach

Just about to go: but you still haven't said what the issue is. Just post that. Someone will answer.

Johan Larsson

Hey ask the question man, asking to ask is recursive :D

Saladin

haha

how much of your monthly income is used to support your family member and other dependents?

if such a question is asked in visa application forum

and i want to say that I don't give any money to my family for support as they function like self-independent in terms of money

how can i write it nicely..

Andrew Leach

You could say you have no-one dependent on you financially.

Saladin

sounds nice...

okay i will write this

Andrew Leach

10:41

Just don't blame me if they don't like it.

Saladin

lololol

i mean with 35.5 K score

it should work

Johan Larsson

or just make it short and simple: 0%?

Andrew Leach

They may say "But you have family living with you: you must spend something on them"

Johan Larsson

no idea if they are looking for nice

Saladin

yes

but they have enough money of their own

i just give them out of love not out of dependability

Andrew Leach

10:48

It's possible the visa question is attempting to glean information on whether you will work and send money out of the country, back home. In which case, saying that you have no financial dependents will answer the question and provide the data required. (You have no incentive to work and won't be sending money out of the country)

Saladin

yes

Johan Larsson

@Saladin what score?

Saladin

I'm asked this question in the section which deals with the financial requirements regarding my trip to uk

exactly its regarding UK visa

xcx

does 'Data streaming Flow' sounds correct for a diagram describing an architecture, of financial messages flow?

or there is too many words

I mean synonyms

'stream' and 'flow'

need to pick one I think :)

Johan Larsson

> financial message(s) flow

xcx

11:02

Data Streaming schema Vs Data Flow schema

@JohanLarsson hmm yes

Johan Larsson

I don't know English much but that sounded better to me

xcx

I prefer message flow over data flow, because 'data flow' is a common word for diagrams

Johan Larsson

but maybe wait for the guys who know the language to wake up :D

xcx

hehe thx, nvm, that's good

David Wallace

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 You are a veritable fount.

tchrist

11:41

New Unicode Character: Recording artist, music producer and actor Cordozar Calvin Broadus, AKA Snoop Dogg submits proposal to Unicode Consortium for addition of new character: “Latin capital A preceded by dot with dot above, niggaz”.

Johan Larsson

Å, I have that one on my Swedish keyboard, not identical, also Ä

tchrist

It’s satire.

Johan Larsson

a joke?

tchrist

Yes.

Johan Larsson

ok had me fooled, not hard :D

tchrist

11:55

> Å, I have that one on my Swedish keyboard, not identical, also Ä

> \N{U+C5}, I have that one on my Swedish keyboard, not identical, also \N{U+C4}

> \N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH RING ABOVE}, I have that one on my Swedish keyboard, not identical, also \N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH DIAERESIS}

That’s in NFC. In NFD, it’s. . .

> A\N{COMBINING RING ABOVE}, I have that one on my Swedish keyboard, not identical, also A\N{COMBINING DIAERESIS}

> A\x{30A}, I have that one on my Swedish keyboard, not identical, also A\x{308}

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Found something on the rock ‘n’ roll or ‘tisn’t here.

Johan Larsson

don't understand much now

tchrist

I’m showing the code points that correspond to what you wrote.

The things in \N{...} are escapes that spell out just which code points we’re talking about here.

NFC = the composed normalization form, NFD = the decomposed normalization form

Johan Larsson

in Tex?

tchrist

What about Tex?

Johan Larsson

looked like Tex syntax

tchrist

12:01

Oh.

No, that’s from programming languages.

Perl and Java and Python and I forget what else. Dialects vary a bit.

For example, with Java you can use \x{....} in regexes but not elsewhere. To use \N{...} you need the ICU regex package.

The \N{...} escape means a named character.

Johan Larsson

oh ok

tchrist

The thing inside the \N{XXX} there is supposed to be the character whose Unicode NAME=XXX property is the XXX.

Johan Larsson

regexr.com?34r6m looks like it matches without voodoo?

tchrist

So \N{LATIN CAPITAL LETTER A WITH RING ABOVE} is Unicode U+00C5.

@JohanLarsson What’s that?

I don’t understand.

Oh, these escapes are so you can enter things in pure ASCII if you want.

Also, “without voodoo” is a bit off. You need normalization to do things properly.

You don’t have to use escapes provided that you can have Unicode literals.

It depends on the default — or current — encoding of the source unit being compiled.

The escapes are for program strings, not for incoming data.

Johan Larsson

ok you are way above my level, as always :D

tchrist

12:09

If you set a variable to the value "\xCFngstrom", the compiler would swap in an Å there without you having to worry about (read: declare) whether your source is in ASCII or ISO-8859-1 or UTF-8 or UTF-16BE or whatnot.

It’s a way to a normal keyboard for indirect data entry of non-ASCII.

That’s all.

Johan Larsson

ty sir

got to walk puppy

tchrist

12:25

@Cerberus Thinking of you with these:

Johan Larsson

12:45

Do you use a qwerty keyboard?

tchrist

Yes.

Johan Larsson

13:05

Why are acknowledgements first in books? Most people must skip them and the should be last imo.

Cerberus

13:56

@tchrist Nice. You're reading New Greek?

@JohanLarsson Agreed.

tchrist

@Cerberus No, just typography articles.

Cerberus

In Greek!

I had no idea they wrote para like that btw.

As to the Latin signs, I have never seen those exact forms, but they resemble abbreviations that I would transcribe as quod and pro, respectively.

tchrist

14:26

@Cerberus Well, the article, as it were, was in English. It’s from this posting regarding a “Questionnaire about the needs of Greek typography end-users”. It’s generally of high quality, and includes responses from accomplished type designers.

Some of the specimens (hm, specimina?) posted or linked to are really neat.

Cerberus

Yes, specimina.

> the advantages of serifs for legibility are well-known.

At last!

tchrist

What do you mean? Was there some question about the truth of the assertion?

That one’s pretty liggy.

Cerberus

@tchrist Only 99 % of websites on the Internet?

tchrist

@Cerberus You mean 99% of the discussions about this, or 99% of the actual faces used on websites?

Cerberus

The latter.

tchrist

14:31

I don’t know what I think about the blackletter Greek faces there.

@Cerberus Ah. Yes. It really depends.

I’m not sufficiently accustomed to reading blackletter faces in any language to have a sound aesthetic instinct concerning them.

Johan Larsson

Does serifs really enhance reading speed? I read somewhere it was mostly a matter of what you are used to.

tchrist

Since the web for the most part does not permit kerning, and most seriffed faces require it to look right when set, it is perhaps easier to reach for a low-seriffed face that can be legible.

Cerberus

Letters like l give me the most trouble.

Johan Larsson

but we read words not letters right?

Cerberus

I used to think the name of the website was Linkedln.

tchrist

14:35

@JohanLarsson Consider then how few sans examples of printed books there are.

Cerberus

That's LINKEDLN.

tchrist

What are we using here again by default? I forget.

Cerberus

@JohanLarsson Only to some extent, and the larger "image" you have of a word is determined by the letters that are in it.

tchrist

Andrew Leach

@tchrist font-family: Verdana,Arial,sans-serif;

Johan Larsson

14:37

@tchrist ok you have a point of course. Dunno if the difference is huge though. Probably bigger difference for longer lines.

tchrist

It should be clear that the seriffed version in the second row of my most recently posted image is much easier to read than the starkly unseriffed first row, in my never-so-humble opinion.

@AndrewLeach That would be the problem then.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Just use Firebug and change it.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach Doesn’t work on my platform, right? I generally use Safari on Darwin, although sometimes I use Opera.

I assume this is another interceptor.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist Windows does have one advantage then :-)

tchrist

Unproven.

Andrew Leach

14:45

@tchrist Yes. It allows pages to re-written on the fly (and Javascript stepped through and debugged).

tchrist

One of these days I’m going to remap fricking Arial altogether.

Journeyman Geek

what's wrong with arial? >_>

tchrist

@JourneymanGeek What does “>_>” indicate as an emoticon?

Looking shifty?

Journeyman Geek

slight confusion/looking shifty

tchrist

Ah.

“What’s wrong with Arial?” Really?

Journeyman Geek

14:48

I believe serifs made for easier printing/seperation for printing

@tchrist: it was my default font for ages, until I found a few other nice sans serif fonts

Andrew Leach

Serifs are derived from chiselled ends in sculpted letters.

Journeyman Geek

as a dyslexic, they are a lot easier to read

tchrist

Well, Helvetica is better than Arial by a long shot, and you should certainly look at Myriad Pro.

Journeyman Geek

right now, I use source/source code pro mostly

and one of the new ms fonts, calibri I think

tchrist

Arial versus Helvetica.

@JourneymanGeek I don’t know what that is.

Journeyman Geek

14:54

one moment

store1.adobe.com/cfusion/store/html/…

and

tchrist

The Scourge of Arial.

Journeyman Geek

store1.adobe.com/cfusion/store/html/…

I use arial unicode for tamil since its installed on most of my systems and does tamil ;

tchrist

Arial Unicode is really buggy, one of the worst possible Unicode fonts.

Andrew Leach

@JourneymanGeek That looks good for dyslexics.

Journeyman Geek

@tchrist: works for me

@AndrewLeach: source code pro is fantastic

Andrew Leach

14:56

Arial is derived from a Monotype/Stephenson Blake Grotesque, but without the quirks and character.

tchrist

@JourneymanGeek What, you want something without an italic or a bold weight? Really?

Journeyman Geek

@tchrist: we don't use either in tamil

In that case, its a reliable, pretty ubiquitous unicode font, that supports one language I deal with a lot, well enough

tchrist

@JourneymanGeek I think you and I have different notions of what “reliable” means.

Journeyman Geek

@tchrist: I've never had trouble rendering unicode in tamil on the font.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…