English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2013-03-08 (page 1 of 2)

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MετάEd

00:22

0

Q: to facilitate the rights

I have a question about the verb 'facilitate': here The Securities and Exchange Commission today adopted changes to the federal proxy and other rules to facilitate the rights of shareholders to nominate directors to a company's board. OALD says that 'facilitate' should be followed by a...

meaning-in-context ambiguity

Off Topic. Hasn't gotten closed yet.

Cerberus

I think it's OK.

MετάEd

Of course you do. You think everything's ok. I don't mind that.

Nevertheless it is off topic, not to mention one of many such requests to proofread the Internet by a known troll.

And it is a possible copyright violation: usingenglish.com/forum/ask-teacher/183110-facilitate.html

Cerberus

Nevertheless it is not off topic.

scurries off

And that is most probably fair use etc.

MετάEd

00:42

@Cerberus I don't think fair use covers reusing a whole post. And this is plagiarism because it is used without attribution. And fair use is for such things as review and criticism: this use is just a reuse, plain and simple.

Cerberus

De minimis, then.

It is just too small and insignificant to be illegal.

Besides, if the user is in Uzbekistan, who knows what copyright laws would apply?

Laws which are bs and need thorough reforming btw.

Most of them at least.

MετάEd

@Cerberus StackExchange has to follow the laws that apply to it, regardless of where the person was who contributed the content.

Cerberus

And SE doesn't do anything, its user does...

MετάEd

@Cerberus SE has obligations under copyright law as a compiler.

Cerberus

Alas.

MετάEd

00:47

It is the publisher, so it is on the hook for publishing something that is proprietary ot somebody else.

Cerberus

But actually, SE doesn't have to do anything unless it receives a notice from the copyright holder.

MετάEd

And it also wishes to publish only material that it can also allow others to republish, so it doesn't want content that is tainted by restrictive copyright.

And users are expected to honor that wish.

Cerberus

Alas.

MετάEd

I would think you'd approve of SE's policy that all contributed content should be unencumbered by restrictive copyright.

Cerberus

I disapprove of the entire complex of burdensome rules. I cannot rejoice over certain cogs in the system.

> A planned story from Orson Scott Card will no longer open DC's new Adventures of Superman series after artist Chris Sprouse withdrew from the project.

What would DC be?

Something Comics?

MετάEd

00:51

It's a comic publisher, yes.

Cerberus

OK.

MετάEd

dccomics.com

The initials "DC" came from the company's popular series Detective Comics, which featured Batman's debut and subsequently became part of the company's name. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dc_comics

Cerberus

Right.

MετάEd

Carry on. G'nite.

Cerberus

G'nite.

6 hours later…

Sarah

06:40

This discussion here prompted me to ask this question. Can anyone tell me if my question off topic for this forum; should I move it to the Etymology forum?

I meant should I move it to the linguistics SE forum

WMD

06:58

@Sarah My opinion is that your question would be on-topic in either forum. If not, then a moderator will move it. It's definitely not so badly off-topic as to get closed, and it is indeed a fine and interesting question.

Sarah

07:09

@WMD I posted it in both places. Is that OK to do?

Oh, and thank you.

WMD

07:25

@Sarah Actually, I think that cross-posting is one of the things that's frowned on around here. Not really sure why. But don't take my word for it. My recommendation would be just to leave it in both places, and see what the moderators advise you to do.

Sarah

07:42

thanks @WMD I thought that. I'll see if I can reword it for this forum as it is a bit off topic for here anyways.

Sarah

08:34

I'll let the moderators move it if they see fit as you said. People had already interacted with it on this forum, so I thought it would just disrupt the Q&A to rework the question more in line with this forum. No one had responded to it on the linguistics forum, so I just deleted it there.

2 hours later…

Matt Эллен

10:22

Happy Friday y'all

user19161

@MattЭллен Boo!

Matt Эллен

hello!

user19161

Good Friday is in three weeks.

Matt Эллен

yep

user19161

We've been seeing some strange conversation topics in this room, mostly from non-regulars.

Matt Эллен

10:32

how do you mean?

user19161

Ah, never mind.

user19161

Like once someone came in and asked how to become a CEO.

Matt Эллен

oh :D yeah we've had a few things like that recently

user19161

Strange eh?

Matt Эллен

well, we have every possible discussion!

sometimes more than once

user19161

10:35

Reg doesn't come to chat often now it seems.

Matt Эллен

He has recluded a bit

user19161

Maybe soon he will delete his account...

Matt Эллен

I don't think so. he's still very active on the main site.

1 hour later…

tchrist

11:43

Our front page disappoints.

Matt Эллен

11:54

we should edit a bunch of good question, just to bring them to the top of the active page.

tchrist

Tag edits count as an edit for popping purposes, but not for CW ones.

MετάEd

CW?

tchrist

Community Wiki

Matt Эллен

You'd think it'd be more important to high light CW edit, to check for vandalism

tchrist

A CW regular edit pops to the top. I'm just saying that diddling the tags will pop to the top but not contribute towards the 10-edit rule (or 6-editor rule) necessary for autoconverting a posting into CW.

Matt Эллен

12:08

Oh I see

tchrist

12:23

Damn, I see it’s fuck-with-our-clocks weekend coming up here again.

Andrew Leach

Europe is the end of March.

Matt Эллен

I think I'm going to remain on GMT when our time comes.

tchrist

I wish they would just leave them alone.

Matt Эллен

I'll be an hour out of sync with everyone, but maybe I'll get more work done...

tchrist

I’d be less annoyed with a law that forced me to go to church.

Ok, maybe not quite that bad, but you get the idea.

Andrew Leach

12:26

What law forces you to change your clocks?

tchrist

The legal clocktime changes.

There are more accidents when the clocks move.

Doubtless by the same people as the ones living paycheck to paycheck.

They live alarm to alarm. So weird.

If they weren’t such slackers as who needed an alarm clock, this would not be a problem.

Matt Эллен

if people weren't so impatient I wouldn't need an alarm clock.

Andrew Leach

Don't alter your alarm clock. Avoid the rush hour.

tchrist

I get up no later than 4 or 5 every day of my life, and have for almost 50 years. What the devil would I use an alarm clock for? :)

Matt Эллен

my phone wakes me up (and auto updates to BST), but I've just added a 5:30 alarm that I'll turn on

tchrist

12:32

Sometimes I put alarm on my phone to tell me to go to this or that at a certain time, but it never does any good for waking me up.

Matt Эллен

it will be an interesting experiment

Andrew Leach

Ooh. Apparently you can answer by proxy.

0

A: Do you "program with language X" or "program using language X" or something else?

"I think you program in Python using the numpy library." – Andrew Leach

Matt Эллен

lol

tchrist

That is not an answer.

That is a comment.

And indeed, it is your comment.

Not his.

Lactating cows abide no clock changes.

Andrew Leach

@tchrist I didn't realise you were a cow.

tchrist

12:38

Neither do roosters.

Perhaps I am a rooster.

We’re in that winter–summer tug-of-war season, the one where the two great seasons vie for supremacy, tugging us first one way and then the other, with a great wet nasty puddle of icy muck in the middle to dunk us in with each yank of our seasonal chain.

It was 72 yesterday. Tonight and tomorrow we’re getting 5 or 10 inches of snow.

Matt Эллен

that's some shift!

tchrist

My crocuses are blooming.

Well, some of them.

72 = summer, 10" of snow = winter

When do we get spring again now?

There is no such thing, just this silly tug-of-war game.

I am glad that the sun is getting up earlier though.

Matt Эллен

Me too. I don't like waking up in the dark

tchrist

Sleep with your eyes open and leave the light on.

Matt Эллен

lol

tchrist

12:51

@MattЭллен One does learn to keep hat and gloves and some sort of jacket or rain-shell in one’s car year-round when living in the mountains, since that can sort of thing can happen any day of the year here.

But usually you have drive between one elevation and another for it to hit so hard.

user19161

@AndrewLeach LOL

Andrew Leach

13:47

I wonder if we should allow Nortonn's sockpuppets to remain and downvote his questions into oblivion. Then we could simply close his future questions as duplicates of the invisible ones (and downvote them into oblivion themselves as well).

user19161

@AndrewLeach I think we should just ignore him.

Andrew Leach

@JacobBlack Hmm. I have a fundamental hatred of sockpuppets flouting suspensions.

user19161

@AndrewLeach Ah, I was quite upset with NS, but I am tired of him already, lol.

Andrew Leach

Well, I've done the Stalinist thing and flagged another post. It's doing wonders for my flag record.

tchrist

@AndrewLeach I do, too.

@AndrewLeach Record? Are you a deputy yet?

They just revised our weather forecast, upping us to 8–12" of snow en route.

Too bad it’s falling on the weekend. No excuse for a snow-day from commutal work.

tchrist

14:15

I feel like our Norties-per-day ratio is on the rise.

Robusto

14:27

What, we have a high NPD ratio? What specialist do we see for that?

Andrew Leach

14:54

@tchrist Yes. I have 152 helpful flags.

Not as many as some, admittedly.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:37

I hate zip codes

aedia λ

I hate snow

What else is new?

Andrew Leach

I like snow. And postcodes.

aedia λ

Sure you do. I bet you also like vacuuming, doing the dishes and going to the DMV.

Andrew Leach

No, not the first two anyway. I don't know what DMV is.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

department of motor vehicles

Andrew Leach

15:46

What do they do?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's a USian thing. I suspect it's where you get your driver's license.

aedia λ

Make you wait in line.

Andrew Leach

Oh. No, I don't like queueing either. I do things online.

aedia λ

For hours and hours, usually (or at least that's why they're the subject of jokes, though my experience has varied widely state-to-state).

Andrew Leach

We have to get a new photocard licence every ten years. It's done by post.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:49

every 10?!?

aedia λ

In the US, you have to go there for things like registering a car or boat or stuff too. Every time you move to a different state, you have to get a completely new license, transfer your car's plates, etc. all in person.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

we have to do it every 3-5 years, and it's done in person at a "Service Ontario" centre, where they take your picture.

Matt Эллен

I dislike snow. I like postcodes

Andrew Leach

The Driver & Vehicle Licensing Authority for the whole of Great Britain is based in Swansea, which is why everything's done by post.

Matt Эллен

yeah. noöne can find Swansea

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:51

So you submit a photo, and they use it?

Andrew Leach

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes. I can't remember whether someone else has to verify it (sign on the back). And they do check that it's fairly like the last one.

Matt Эллен

you have to get it singed by a "reputable member of the community" like a doctor or lawyer. I think, anyway. or maybe that's just for passports

Andrew Leach

@MattЭллен I'm not sure a singed photo would be welcome.

aedia λ

giggles

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I heard of a guy who submitted a painting he made of himself

Matt Эллен

15:53

:Þ

also: no hats or smiling.

Andrew Leach

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Yes, but it was rejected. It was a photo of a painting.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@AndrewLeach no, it was accepted. The one I heard.

ah, it was in Sweden

Andrew Leach

Found it. You were right. bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-20739778

A UK licence might have been issued, but it would almost certainly be revoked when they found out.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I don't see why it would matter if it was a photo of him, or a painting so good you can't tell it isn't a photo of him

Matt Эллен

aye

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:57

What if he first created a wax dummy of himself that was so good you couldn't tell it wasn't him, and he photographed that?

Andrew Leach

If you apply online, UK driving licences use the photo you submit for your passport. gov.uk/renew-photo-driving-licence

Passport photos must be "only of you with no other objects or people". gov.uk/photos-for-passports

aedia λ

Even for people with photos on their licenses, it's not really them. It's not even the same light rays that hit them. Who knows who those dots on the paper are?

Andrew Leach

Anyway, what's wrong with zipcodes? Apart from being next-to-useless?

aedia λ

I actually don't have anything against them and think they're probably useful, I just know @Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 had some missing zipcode data and I was sympathizing

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@aediaλ yeah

aedia λ

16:09

It's snowing here in the northeast USA rather more than I would like at the moment, so I am tired and grumpy about it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

and I've got my hands on several different zip databases and they're all different: some have some codes, and are missing others, or have others and are missing yet more, or have dead ones, etc.

aedia λ

oh noes!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

at least it's sunny here, and 4° C

aedia λ

Nice.

It's supposed to be back above freezing later today here, but so far the warm, wet snow is the heaviest we've had this year, so I'm not really anticipating the afternoon with gusto.

Trying to decide how soon to go back out there and clear some more of the stuff.

tchrist

@aediaλ It was 72 yesterday, and now they’re saying up to like a foot of new snow on the ground by tomorrow night.

tchrist

16:33

-2

A: Is a whole cake still a "piece"

Fudge off. The whole lot of you.

Fudge cake, mmmmmm.

Matt Эллен

is a fudge off where people compete to make the best fudge? or eat the most?

Sarah

Excuse me, I just wondered, I chose to automatically move a discussion from the Q&A page. Will that automatically delete it from the Q&A page or do I have to flag it for a moderator to do so?

Matt Эллен

@Reg do you know about moving comments to chat?

or maybe @Kit?

@Sarah if you're referring to your discussion with Cerberus, then it looks like the comments stay where they are.

Sarah

16:53

Should they stay where they are?

Matt Эллен

that I don't know :D

Cerberus

Nor I.

And hello!

aedia λ

Hola!

Sarah

hello!

I like your forum.

aedia λ

@tchrist Wow, that's a crazier swing in temperatures than here.

MartyIX

17:02

Hi! Is the "written excuse note" proper term for a paper where student specifies the reason of his/her absence in school?

aedia λ

I don't see why not.

I don't really remember such things being called anything more than "a note from your parents".

Cerberus

@MartyIX I don't know, it is clear enough; I would probably leave out "note", because note and written are a bit pleonastic. So a written excuse. Or what Aedia says.

tchrist

There are unwrtten notes?

Matt Эллен

"sick note" was a colloquial term, if I recall correctly.

tchrist

It’s just a note, I should say.

Or, I suppose, a written excuse.

But all those words together are, in one fashion or another, “too many notes”. :)

Matt Эллен

17:07

oh, apparently in the UK "sick note" used to be the official form you'd have to give your employer. It's been renamed the "fit note"

aedia λ

We didn't say "sick note" where I grew up (east coast USA).

MartyIX

@aediaλ I'm trying to find the most common term. Thank you!

tchrist

It’s just a doctor’s excuse in the States.

MartyIX

@Cerberus Thanks!

Matt Эллен

fit note

TIL

aedia λ

17:09

@tchrist Just "a note" would have been what I called a school excuse note from my parents explaining absence, yeah.

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Why on earth?

Is that a kind of euphemistic move?

Matt Эллен

I think so

tchrist

Apparently instead of needing a note to be away, you now need a note to prove your fitness to return.

Cerberus

Silly.

aedia λ

My husband and I have both had workplaces with such policies, but I can't think of any common name for the note, because it is not a common occurrence; it's something everyone tries to avoid, by coming back to work on the 3rd or whatever day it is, unless they're sick as death.

Cerberus

17:23

Yeah.

I wonder why Apple users always accept the crappy way Apple treats them.

It is always late to respond to widely heard complaints, it never admits mistakes upfront (except months later in the Maps débâcle)...

chatkillah

@Cerberus isn't it amusing in the face of their 1984 commercial?

Cerberus

I don't see commercials, so I wouldn't know, hehe.

I thought Google was BB?

chatkillah

@Cerberus because it's cool.

Cerberus

Haha.

So those people-without-personality are Apple users?

And why does the screen explode on impact?

chatkillah

@Cerberus it's the world's largest cathode ray tube?

@Cerberus they're supposed to be IBM users.

Cerberus

17:33

That's silly, when you can have a real screen.

@chatkillah Haha.

Apple is the new IBM?

Except more aggressive and unsympathetic.

chatkillah

Yeah.

Thermonuclear war and such.

Cerberus

OMG. Twitter got a patent for "pull down to refresh"??

chatkillah

yikes.

Cerberus

You swipe down from the top of the screen to refresh the page in an application.

I don't think I need to comment on this one, we're all thinking the same things, some of which having 4 letters.

chatkillah

Cake.

Matt Эллен

17:38

Cake: It's a made up drug.

aedia λ

gulp

Matt Эллен

Cerberus

Haha wtf.

Matt Эллен

brasseye / the day today was a spoof news show. it was great :D

RegDwighт

17:58

@MattЭллен I, uh. I think it copies the last couple messages into chat. Copy as in copy, not move. But I don't know. Never used it myself and it's been a long time since I saw someone else use it.

Commie mutant hero turtles!

Matt Эллен

helloes!

Cerberus

Hi!

Have fun with your red-scarved reptiles!

Matt Эллен

@Sarah see what Reg says up there ^^^

tchrist

Speaking of comments, I thought deleted comments weren’t supposed to show up in our inbox anymore as a covert channel. But they appear to do so. Hm.

Cerberus

Hmm indeed.

But you'd have to post very short messages?

> Google about to lose patent spat with Microsoft: German court inclined to ban Google Maps

Germany is getting as bad as America.

Terrible.

fosspatents.com/2013/03/…

Matt Эллен

18:15

I hate patents

Cerberus

So do I!

Matt Эллен

people are banned from having patents until they start to use them responsibly

Cerberus

The only thing I am not sure about is whether they are rotten or broken.

@MattЭллен Which is never.

Matt Эллен

this web page is international, which makes our declaration international law

all patents are null and void

people at the company I work at are paid bonuses for each patent they successfully file. Hundreds of pounds.

it's ridiculous

Cerberus

@MattЭллен Yay!

@MattЭллен Yikes. That is terrible.

And who is funding these patent applications?

aedia λ

18:18

Most tech companies in the US are like that too

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus the company

@aediaλ I can imagine

Cerberus

Yikes. How stupid.

Unless they plan on becoming a patent troll.

@aediaλ It is or used to be not as bad here. But we too are moving in the wrong direction.

Matt Эллен

@Cerberus because they get money from the gov. for each patent filed. It's a stupid gravy train

Cerberus

> In a very real sense, then, the Federal Circuit is responsible for the rise of patent thickets, patent trolls and the granting of absurdly obvious and trivial patents on every aspect of software. The reason that occurred is that its decisions were rarely reviewed or overturned. Only when the US Supreme Court chose to take on a case was there any possibility of that.

Matt Эллен

if not money, then a tax break or something

Cerberus

18:20

Europe has just got its own specialised patent court, which is independent of the EU, and independent of the European Court of Justice.

That means you cannot appeal, period.

I am very, very worried.

aedia λ

One of my friends recently got a patent, and he's proud of the interesting work he does, but I don't think he's proud of how the patent now adds to his company's ability to stop other people from using ideas

Cerberus

I guess new inventions and technologies will have to come from China and underground networks.

@aediaλ Yeah! Don't forget that patents can also be used defensively.

It shouldn't be that way, but it is.

blogs.computerworlduk.com/open-enterprise/2012/10/…

About the European patent court.

aedia λ

I was thinking of that because I had to like... congratulate him but not too much that I would make him ashamed

Cerberus

Ugh.

Does he agree with you on patents in general?

aedia λ

Oh, yes. This is one of my closest college friends.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:28

I have a patent on congratulating people until they feel ashamed. And congratulating them just enough that they almost reach the shame tipping point but don't tip over.

So you owe me $1B in punitive damages

Matt Эллен

I challenge your patent with prior art!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

we don't recognize any prior art unless it's in the form of earlier patents.

Matt Эллен

I once congratulated someone so much they felt ashamed.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

aha! then you also owe me $1B in punitive damages

Matt Эллен

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 this is an earlier patent

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 bee dollars are not a recognised currency

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:32

@MattЭллен This is earlier than yours

Matt Эллен

curses!

Robusto

user image

How real men code.

Matt Эллен

lol

and real foxes, eh @Kit?

Sarah

@MattЭллен very good. Thank you. I'm sure if it troubles the moderators they will take care of it.

Robusto

Stay thirsty, my friends.

Matt Эллен

18:35

@Sarah yeah. nothing to worry about.

Sarah

thanks.

Robusto

I worry when I don't have stuff to worry about. Something's not right.

Matt Эллен

then, just for you, I'll set your car on fire

aedia λ

user image

Robusto

That's fine if you have dusty feathers.

Matt Эллен

18:37

amazing! sign me up for 4 score

aedia λ

And seven? You know you want those extra seven

Matt Эллен

ohhhhhh. OK. you've twisted my arm.

Robusto

You've all seen the original Gettysburg Address document, haven't you?

Cerberus

@aediaλ Ohh wow, what an novel invention! Genius! Nobody else could have have thought of that.

@aediaλ Yay!

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 But I shared only two congratulations with people! How much do I owe you?

Robusto

I like the Organizational Overview best.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:44

@Cerberus did you bring them near the shame threshold or over?

Matt Эллен

@Robusto something tells me this isn't authentic.

Cerberus

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 I am not sure. I sure tried.

Matt Эллен

I don't think Lincoln would have contracted government to Gov't

Robusto

It's as authentic as that movie they made about Abe Lincoln. The one about him being a vampire hunter, that is.

Cerberus

Haha wtf is that.

Robusto

18:45

Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter

Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter is a 2012 American action fantasy horror film based on the 2010 mashup novel of the same name. The film was directed and co-produced by Timur Bekmambetov, along with Tim Burton. The novel's author, Seth Grahame-Smith, wrote the adapted screenplay, and Benjamin Walker stars as the title character. The real-life figure Abraham Lincoln, the 16th President of the United States (1861–1865), is portrayed in the novel and the film as having a secret identity as a vampire hunter. Filming began in Louisiana in March 2011 and the film was released in 3D on June 20, ...

Matt Эллен

I've heard good things about the film

Cerberus

I believe the Gettysburg Address is an historical document. So the Power Point slides seem appropriate. Great style too.

Robusto

@Cerberus The bar chart is hilarious.

Cerberus

@Robusto When you need too many words to describe a genre, that says enough about it.

Robusto

@Cerberus It's about everything that's wrong with Powerpoint.

If there are people who enjoy Powerpoint presentations, I sure don't want to meet them.

Matt Эллен

18:46

we need more New Nations, damnit!

Cerberus

Haha.

@Robusto I really, truly don't understand why people use PPt for anything other than displaying important images.

Text, certainly not.

Just send the text to people by e-mail or put it up on your website.

Robusto

@MattЭллен i no rite

Cerberus

My friend, a teacher of history, uses PPt all the time. Probably because he was taught to do so in teacher school.

I guess it is nice for maps and graphs, so that you don't need to make print-outs for everyone.

Robusto

@Cerberus Powerpoint is the last refuge of the unimaginative. Or the first, I can't remember which.

Matt Эллен

"If you can use technology, e.g. PPT, children will respect you"

aedia λ

18:49

I have occasionally used it to make a really quick clickable prototype

Cerberus

But the light should stay on, and you should never make people read text from PPt or copy it.

@Robusto Yeah.

@aediaλ crosses arms Of what?

Robusto

@Cerberus Of Powerpoint.

aedia λ

@Cerberus Heh. Of a bit of a website workflow, like a spot with a few buttons or options - the same way I might sketch on the whiteboard and draw arrows, if everyone were in the same room.

Cerberus

@aediaλ Okay, that makes sense.

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