English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

00:14

@Laurel ESL normally teaches ALL FIVE per-person casewise pronominal forms together as a set like I/me/mine/my/myself or they/them/themself/their/theirs, albeit not without some risk of confusion. If you don’t spell them out like that, learners will make wrong assumptions and come up with things like hem, hin, hit, hisself, ourn (forms today heard only in dialect). After all, one never knows whether someone cares to revive such relics as a way of proclaiming individuality. :)

And yes, I changed the order, to show how the reflexive is not predictable.

POSS+self vs ACC+self

At least we don't need a special dative. :)

earnestly hopes

CowperKettle

St Petersburg yesterday had the warmest 26 August night on record, with +18 C

Moscow similarly has a lot more "tropical nights" in recent years

tchrist

@CowperKettle Did you miss two leap months?

Or is this still Julian not Gregorian or something?

CowperKettle

OOps

tchrist

heh

CowperKettle

Fixed it

It's 05:26 am, I'm a bit sleepy

tchrist

00:26

Did you just wake up?

It's not light enough here at the time anymore.

CowperKettle

Yes. Leucovorin injections somewhy add energy to me

tchrist

Ah.

CowperKettle

They might work by helping the body restore BH4, which takes part in synthesis of neuromediators

At least that's one of the hypotheses

Here's the hypothesis as described in a review psychiatrist.com/pcc/…

> LMF may mitigate these effects by facilitating the synthesis of tetrahydrobiopterin (BH4), a critical coenzyme in neurotransmitter production. Furthermore, LMF does not cause adverse reactions commonly associated with other adjunctive MDD treatment agents (eg, atypical antipsychotics), such as weight gain, metabolic perturbations, and movement disorders.

1. Inflammation
2. ???
3. Profit! (low BH4 → brain fatigue)

The hypothesis goes somewhat like this ↑

CowperKettle

01:18

William R. Catton Jr. of the day: " Man became, in effect, a detritivore, Homo colossus. Our species bloomed, and now we must expect a crash (of some sort) as the natural sequel."

William R. Catton Jr.

William Robert Catton, Jr. (January 15, 1926 – January 5, 2015) was an American sociologist known for his scholarly work in environmental sociology and human ecology. More broadly, Catton is known for his 1980 book, Overshoot: The Ecological Basis of Revolutionary Change, which is credited by younger generations of environmental scholars and activists as foundational for their own works. == Biography == William R. Catton, Jr. was the son of a Congregational minister. He was born in Minneapolis, Minnesota on January 15, 1926, and served in the U.S. Navy from 1943 to 1946. After discharge, ...

Laurel

@tchrist True, but this ain't grammar class

I was wondering if people who use neoprounouns might give some more forms to help people out, but I don't think they do. Not that I know anyone who uses them

Laurel

01:38

In fact, the examples I stumbled upon with neopronouns had stuff like "he/xe", where you're given even less information than "xe/xem" (which I can at least recognize as "they/them but starting with x" when I have the second pronoun)

tchrist

01:55

@Laurel Which is why I said something here instead of commenting on your post in a pointless distraction. That's what chat is for. :)

Laurel

And give me another place to talk about pronouns??? lol

tchrist

@Laurel They can be hard to pronouns.

alphabet

@Laurel I believe they do, but I recall a poll of trans people on some website saying that 99% of people who use neopronouns find they/them equally acceptable.

When I got to college some group put a pamphlet in every freshman's mailbox listing conjugations of neopronouns. Never proved useful.

I do think that eventually pronouns will just be seen as part of someone's name, i.e. a way that they prefer to be called rather than something precisely tied to gender identity or what have you.

I also think that the only reason for writing "he/him" instead of just "he" is because it makes it clear that you're writing a list of pronouns instead of trying to use one, hence "he/they" instead of "he/him/they/them."

(Not "conjugations," whatever the right word is, you know what I mean.)

Laurel

02:17

@alphabet Sounds familiar. I think people realize it's not really practical to only go by neopronouns

@alphabet This is also my thought, but it sounds better coming from someone who's a director with a super long title

Vikas

02:45

Started it has, a cold war between Robusto and alphabet 🤣

alphabet

@Laurel Robusto has developed...some sort of issue with me and ended up adding me to his ignore list.

Vikas

No electricity here since last 12 hours. Probably rain damaged something.

alphabet

A few days ago he decided to inform me, more or less, that I don't read a lot. After adding some more critiques, he politely informed that he wasn't trying to insult me...and then blamed my "ego and paranoia."

Today he decided to make the exact same remark. Instead of getting ticked off like last time, I tried the "having an adult conversation" approach; he took the approach of calling me "jejune and ignorant."

Anyway, now I'm on his ignore list for some reason or other.

In the case of tchrist, I admit that our falling out was partly my fault. But this was just absurd. I have no idea what started him on this; certainly we've had our disagreements before, but this seemed to come out of nowhere.

Not happy he ignored me, but at least the bullying will stop.

Laurel

03:24

@alphabet Not really sure what to say about this. You can only control your behavior, but I'm not sure what you could have done differently to avoid this other than the facile option of just taking it when people are doing something to upset you

alphabet

03:37

@Laurel Thanks. Yeah, in that second conversation I could've ignored it, but I'd hoped I'd be able to convince him to stop.

If he'd made a constructive and reasonably tactful suggestion about the respects in which I could broaden my literary input, I wouldn't have objected. But he didn't seem to be aiming for anything of that sort.

Laurel

The thing about the English lexicon is that even if you only read a little from each niche of works, you'll never get close to reading it all. And people by and large don't read like that, they read in whatever niches they like and not much else. (My niches don't include British guys in suspenders either, FWIW)

GratefulDisciple

@Laurel @alphabet I concur with Laurel here, that in those 2 instances you are on the right. I don't know the history between the two of you (having only becoming active in this room only lately), but if I were you I take the high moral ground and focus on what I want to make myself happy and try not to get people's reaction (that I DO know is not loving) under my skin.

Robusto

03:53

@Vikas Please don't go all paparazzi on this. Differences of opinion don't have to become little soap operas. Sometimes people get along, sometimes they don't. Shit happens.

Laurel

04:04

@Vikas Oh wait but circling back to this, how are you accessing the internet? Are you just drawing your battery?

alphabet

04:22

@GratefulDisciple Solid advice, thanks.

Our past disagreements haven't been that sudden or turned that caustic that quickly, usually being more intellectual disputes. Though they have often been about roughly similar topics (him thinking I'm unrefined and uncultured, me thinking he's elitist and supercilious).

GratefulDisciple

04:54

@alphabet I'm glad I could help. I also have been in your shoes before, so I hope I know how it feels. But my outlook has been positive: pick up the advice and discard the rest. Yes, I have to swallow my pride a lot, being in a junior position. But then, I read biographies of famous people who often do that too in their formative years.

That way I can grow and avoid becoming bitter. I focus on my own happiness. If there comes a point where that person no longer offers good advice, then it's time to leave.

@alphabet My wife gave me a good advice: learn from people who have something better than what you have. If they are proud, overbearing, elitist, you name it, they earn the "right" to be like that, especially if they win something (competition, etc.). So swallow your pride and learn. Many music teachers are like that (I have seen a few).

alphabet

@GratefulDisciple By elitist, I mean more in the sense of people thinking that their taste in literature, art, music, etc. makes them superior to "ordinary people." On a purely intellectual level I find that idea deeply misguided, except to the extent that those works serve some sort of clear didactic purpose.

GratefulDisciple

05:13

@alphabet To be honest, I may have been guilty of that at times too, especially in music. So I have to be careful and separate the elements: there is this "refined taste" but there is also this "elitist attitude" you're talking about (that others who don't share my taste are plebeian). Frasier show (where Frasier gangs up with his brother Niles) turns that elitism against their beer-loving baseball-loving dad into comedy.

So part of my character training is to pound down that "elitist attitude" when it comes up, and ask myself "what should I do?" Frasier & Niles love classical opera and when they are not being elitist they try to get their dad to enjoy it too (doesn't work of course). But I still try, because, like you said, to me classical music not only has "clear didactic purpose" but mirroring Absolute Beauty,

and it's loving to want to share something that is objectively beautiful. In a loving way, of course, not in a condescending way.

alphabet

@GratefulDisciple I'm skeptical of the idea of objective beauty being valuable--mainly because I'm not a skeptic about the idea that ethics is objective, and I don't see how you can make a case that beauty is morally valuable.

GratefulDisciple

@alphabet I didn't say beauty is morally valuable, but it is valuable in other ways, such as as an avenue to know God through nature and objects that humans make that participate in that nature. This link between beauty and gods is ancient; think of the Muse. I believe medieval Christianity sensed this and made it official by making Beauty to be one of the transcendentals, where God is said to be the True, the Good, and the Beautiful.

alphabet

@GratefulDisciple Can't say I'm a believer myself, but I'm not sure how you'd know that you can know God through the works of Beethoven better than through the works of Cardi B. Of course, you could argue that Cardi B's lyrics teach people bad lessons, but otherwise I'm not sure how one could find a standard to judge this by.

GratefulDisciple

@alphabet We're talking about music, so lyrics don't count. When I was a kid, I grew to love Mozart & Verdi's opera music without understanding the lyrics, but when I'm in college and I discover what the lyrics mean, I was in for a surprise and it makes me blush of its vulgarity or its immorality. But I still like the music. At the same time, some church music is not interesting despite the wholesome lyrics. C.S. Lewis is known to dislike church hymns.

alphabet

05:30

@GratefulDisciple Indeed. So here's the question: how could it serve any objectively valuable purpose if it teaches you nothing about right and wrong or causes any identifiable change in your character? That seems like a problem to me.

Anyway I need to go since it's 1:30 am. 'Night.

GratefulDisciple

@alphabet I doubt that many people say rap music "beautiful" compared to Mozart, for example. They enjoy rap music for sure, but I doubt that even to them they say they enjoy the music for the "beauty" element, maybe rather to the other effects. I'm also not saying that non-classical music don't have beauty, and some modern classical music is really "ugly" in my opinion.

I have yet to be able to articulate what my sense of "beauty" is, and justify in what sense it can be a participation of Absolute Beauty.

@alphabet Why does something have to be moral in order to be valuable? Why does something valuable have to change your character? Character is not everything. Humans have desires, and one of those desires is for beauty, and it is only human to want to be pleased by beauty.

@alphabet Okay, have a good night. TTYL.

Vikas

@Laurel Good question. So yeah we have two backup batteries and inverter setup. They can give 7-8 hours backup. When I typed that message, batteries were almost dead. The wifi router was only thing alive. Shortly after router was also off. Now electricity is fixed. Alternatively I could use Mobile data but I didn't have any active plan.

I wonder what's it called. Head massager? And do they work as shown on social media? I have experienced similar feeling under shower (not always but sometimes at certain angles).

That felt satisfying. I'd try one if it works.

GratefulDisciple

06:07

@alphabet And just so this room doesn't accuse me for being elitist, I would call Led Zeppelin's Stairway to Heaven, which I encountered just now in this Music.SE question, beautiful. I call many non-classical music beautiful as well. But it's hard to identify what it is exactly that makes them "objectively beautiful".

HippoSawrUs

08:11

@Mitch Heeyy, no. Substantive experience is for blacksmiths and such. You could just lounge on a futon all day and think 'Ow, my hip' and still be a true crime expert. I should get paid…

Robusto

13:55

#WhenTaken #182 (27.08.2024)

I scored 703/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 14066 km - 🗓️ 12 yrs - ⚡ 79 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 2871 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 140 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 778 km - 🗓️ 13 yrs - ⚡ 153 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 404 km - 🗓️ 3 yrs - ⚡ 184 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 1077 km - 🗓️ 12 yrs - ⚡ 147 / 200

https://whentaken.com

Ouch.

Wordle 1,165 3/6

🟨🟨⬛⬛⬛
⬛🟨🟨⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Vikas

14:26

I named my phone "The Titanic". Now every time I plug it into my PC, it says "The Titanic is syncing".

Robusto

14:42

Protests against TOURISM in SPAIN. What’s happening? | Spanish Listening Practice (with subtitles)

►

@Vikas snort

jlliagre

15:07

#WhenTaken #182 (27.08.2024)

I scored 766/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 11855 km - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 98 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 35 km - 🗓️ 14 yrs - ⚡ 171 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 3579 km - 🗓️ 10 yrs - ⚡ 119 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 277 km - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 189 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 212 km - 🗓️ 3 yrs - ⚡ 189 / 200

https://whentaken.com

@Robusto Ouille.

Robusto

15:40

@jlliagre This was the worst one in a while.

Daily Octordle #946
3️⃣7️⃣
🕚6️⃣
🕛8️⃣
9️⃣🔟
Score: 66

Daily Sequence Octordle #946
5️⃣7️⃣
8️⃣9️⃣
🔟🕚
🕛🕐
Score: 75

@jlliagre There are so many of these pix with no locale-identifying features.

jlliagre

16:42

@Robusto Right. If someone gets 1000/1000 on this question, I'd strongly suspect cheating.

M.A.R.

17:15

@Robusto I wouldn't be surprised. Telegram feels like that part of the video game where you have to escape the baddies in sewer tunnels.

Riddle me this. It's censored by the government, but a channel with 4 million followers (!) posts multiple working proxies every day to access it.

Mitch

@HippoSawrUs you can't fool me. The next step after 'couch compression technologist' is 'subjunctive murder hornet with a limp'.

@M.A.R. whoa...I missed that episode of Black Mirror.

M.A.R.

@Mitch the mirror wasn't black back then

Brownish green?

Honestly my idea of a sewer system comes from Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

To have a whole people live there, it'd explain a lot of things.

alphabet

17:41

Proposal: change the preterite and past participle forms of sync to sanc and sunc. @Vikas

MetaEd

"For three days after death hair and fingernails continue to grow but phone calls taper off." ---Johnny Carson

Vikas

18:03

Did you know? The swimming pool in The Titanic is still full of water.

Robusto

18:18

@Vikas After 112 years? Amazing!

Vikas

Yes

Robusto

They don't make 'em like that anymore.

MetaEd

Wordle 1,165 4/6

⬛🟨⬛🟨⬛
⬛🟨🟨⬛🟨
⬛🟩🟩🟩🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

jlliagre

19:15

Wordle 1,165 3/6

⬛🟨⬛🟨⬛
⬛🟩⬛⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Daily Octordle #946
3️⃣9️⃣
🔟🕚
8️⃣6️⃣
🕐🟥
Score: 74

Daily Sequence Octordle #946
4️⃣5️⃣
6️⃣7️⃣
8️⃣9️⃣
🕛🕐
Score: 64

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…