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00:06
@alphabet Heh, good point. My mind's ear pronounced it the latter way first.
But I've always been more about English than chemistry.
@Cerberus Can't you write people letters and leave people notes in Dutch?
@tchrist Au contraire, it is completely standard in Dutch.
Dutch doesn't have this problem with it that English has.
That's what I thought. So now I wonder why it doesn't sound equally fine to you in English.
Maybe it will not sound fine to you either, when you let it simmer a bit.
I suspect Fowler and other style guides will recommend against it.
Which "it"? The letter-writing one?
Or the kidney pies?
Donation I'm a little squeamish about.
00:14
The letter-writing.
> My British-born boss corrected me for preparing a letter that said “I am writing you” instead of “I am writing to you.” He sniffed that dropping the preposition “to” in the first example was an Americanism and bad English.
Oh, look.
Here we go again.
"I am writing you" by itself is like drawing a picture of you.
Right!
Well of course. It sounds stupid.
Maybe it is just something I learned consciously long ago, I don't remember.
Except the conflation of "Americanism" and "bad English" is chauvinist tripe.
00:16
It's racist.
I'll settle for chauvinist.
Would be nice if Americans were all one, big, happy race!
Despite the alternation with "to," the indirect object with "write" has more of a benefactive sense, like "I'm cooking you a meal" vs "I'm cooking a meal for you"
Radical idea.
I don't think any country is one big happy race anymore.
00:17
@alphabet So, I'm cooking you right now?
I would not say, I wrote my mother a letter, not in a formal text, at least. I wrote a letter to my mother.
Could be that we learned this in school, no idea.
Can you sing her a song?
I don't write my mother formal letters. Besides, she's not with us anymore.
Note that "I'm writing a letter to you" isn't actually analogous to "I'm giving a book to him," since you can say "That is a letter to you" but not "That is a book to him"
I certainly can give you a book.
00:19
With give, there is no problem.
But write is a classic example, I think.
@Robusto My point is that, though "give" and "write" are both ditransitive and have alternants with "to," the syntactic structure of the alternants differ
OK.
I can make you a sandwich.
"I wrote you a letter" sounds fine to me, but maybe I'm too American to understand
There are a few other marginal ones: "I delivered him the package," "I returned him his keys," etc.
I also feel that I wrote you a letter was probably normal in older texts.
> When she wrote me a letter, said she couldn't live without me no more. —Tom Paxton, "The Letter"
00:20
Older, as in, let's say, a hundred years ago.
@Cerberus Probably because writing letters was normal in older texts
> 17. a. transitive. To compose and send (a letter or similar communication) to someone; to communicate with a person by (letter, email, etc.). Frequently with the recipient indicated as an indirect object or in a prepositional phrase introduced by to (also †unto, †till); cf. sense 17b.
> 1613 J. Saris Jrnl. in Voy. Japan (1900) 94 This daye Mr. Cocks writt me a letter.
Write me a poem, please. But not the length of a bible.
> c1380 Sir Ferumbras (1879) l. 1782 Þe lettre þat ys til hym wryte.
@alphabet The practice remained normal long after this construction came under criticism.
00:22
I told you not to come.
FOUND IT
Some things come too soon, or not at all when they ought to.
> 17. c. transitive. To compose and send a letter to (someone). Now chiefly North American.

In early use with the recipient as an indirect object (in Old English dative object). By the late 18th cent. apparently typically analysed as a direct object, and in Britain viewed as colloquial, or associated with the usage of business and commercial circles. Now viewed as nonstandard in British English and similar varieties, but in standard use in North America.
So we just didn't get nunned to death.
It was always there.
But busybodies rapped the wrists too exhuberantly.
Ahh yes, associated with 'business and commercial circles', that is exactly my association.
But it wasn't.
It was just a normal way of saying it.
00:24
@tchrist Probably related to the "constituent structure" issue I mentioned earlier; it's easy to read "a letter to you" as a single NP
Yeah I'm sure I have seen it in older texts in perfectly normal writing.
Oops, it wasn't Tom Paxton, it was Wayne Carson. Same metric pattern, so I plead rhythm.
To allow dative shift you need to read it as "I wrote [a letter] [to you]," not "I wrote [a letter [to you]]"
SO much damage was done to innocent native speakers by asshole pseudo-grammarians during the late 18th and early 19th centuries that the language is unlikely to ever fully recover.
Should it be buried once and for all?
Replaced with Latin at last?
00:26
Poisoning pidgins in the parque.
@tchrist Did you have nuns in school? I did, and it was everything people thought it was.
@tchrist Poisoning pidgins on the parquet?
Pidgins cause serious damage to our most revered monuments.
Another H&P BrEism: they use "quieten" in an example. Apparently BrE has this form
@Cerberus Latin has already been replaced by the Roman[ce] languages.
Not as the lingua franca!
She ought to retake her rightful place.
00:28
English is the lingua franca now!
Long live English!
@Robusto No, but strangely enough I had friends who did. I came from the Protestant majority, not the Catholic minority. Only the Irish and Italians and Poles went to St Francis de Sales Parochial School in Lake Geneva. They were our minorities. By high school the wandering Catholics joined the rest of us at big Badger High School.
@Robusto could have just said that. Granted, it probably wouldn't have been less campy
No Nazi campies in this chat.
@tchrist Yeah, I had nuns in grade school and priests in high school. The nuns were no less invidious, but the priests hit harder.
We had a thousand high school kids in a town numbering just over four times that.
Because we drew from many sources.
Pell Lake. Genoa City.
00:32
My high school did too. All of Lake County.
Elkhorn and Delavan had their own high schools, but not the little places. Como.
@Robusto If all they did was hit you, you're one of the lucky ones. (Yes I should not have said that.)
And the parish school stopped at 8th grade.
@Cerberus fundamentally, just what I said; that ionic compounds are giant networks and molecules are individual units that stay together due to weaker forces (or don't, as in the case of gases). Less simplistically, it's a spectrum, with the covalent type of bond (between, say, hydrogen atoms in the hydrogen gas, H2) in one extreme and the ionic type of bond (e.g. in table salt, NaCl) in the other. No bond is purely covalent or ionic, but that's needlessly complicating the discussion.
@alphabet I was never molested, unless you count non-sexual corporal punishment, which was served up with a will.
00:34
Let me think. I think Williams Bay drew from Fontana and Walworth. But not positive, because I did go to high school with kids from BB along the back side of the lake.
@Robusto Strange how the meaning of "molest" has changed over time; it used to be nonsexual
Yeah.
From Kipling:
> It is wrong to put temptation in the path of any nation,
For fear they should succumb and go astray;
So when you are requested to pay up or be **molested,**
You will find it better policy to say
That line always weirds me out
Yes. What would we do without semantic drift? Why, we'd have to invent our own words.
@Robusto But Tchrist said English was unlikely to recover. So why drag around a dying horse?
00:36
@Cerberus OK, let's all speak Latin in this chat. You first.
Ego!
Cogito ergo sum et shit
@M.A.R. OK so I gather two points from this: 1. the metal atoms in Fe2O3 are not connected to just one instance of O3, but to several at once? 2. Those meta atoms form much weaker bonds than atoms normally do in molecules?
@Robusto Optume!
@Cerberus every Fe is surrounded by six O's, which are surrounded by six Fe's, and so on and so forth, until you have this huge network.
There are 'holes' in this network, because the formation is never ideal, but that's the gist of it
@M.A.R. Ohh I see.
00:42
I don't understand what 'meta atom' refers to in your second point
Ahh *metal.
What an annoying typo!
Oh okay. Yes, ionic bonds tend to be weaker, but not always.
So a normal molecule containing an Fe or Mg atom does not exist, at all?
Ionic bonds are more universal than savings bonds.
The normal molecules you're thinking of, no. But metals can also bind to parts of molecules that have 'extra' bits of electron. The result is a whole different beast entirely, which we call a complex, because it's complex. So you have this big molecule with a hole in the middle, that can form complexes with metals, and it does, and that's how metals function in our body.
Big organic molecules with a hole in the middle where iron cations can bind. They're the cores of hemoglobin.
00:48
And those are not considered 'normal' molecules, because they are too large?
Nice holes.
One spot is open, so an O2 molecule binds this spot in the lung's capillaries and is released in tissues with less oxygen around the body.
@Cerberus no, because the nature of their bonding is complex, hence their names. They can be small, perfectly stable molecules forming bonds with metals. Say, carbon monoxide.
@M.A.R. Cum futuis, M.A.R., soles in fine cacare.
Now, now.
The bond between the iron in hemoglobin and CO is 200 times stronger, so if one inhales CO, they're essentially stopping hemoglobin from binding to and releasing oxygen.
The tissues don't get oxygen, and the rest is cacare
How unfortunate.
01:07
-2
Q: Does an AR-15 rifle round liquefy tissue and powder bone?

atkIn a 12 Apr 2023 ABC nightly news segment on the 2023 Louisville Shooting (in which an AR-15 style rifle was used), they included a segment of a press conference with Dr Jason Smith, Chief Medical Officer of UofL Health. Beginning at timestamp 4:30: Rifle rounds pulverize and liquefy tissue beca...

Okay, I still don't get this. What kind of citizen and for what reason might need an AR-15 to protect their property or whatever?
Or do the NRA types use the slippery slope fallacy instead, that first it's your assault rifles, and then your pistols, and then, I dunno, your children?
How come there hasn't been a law passed against being able to purchase military gear? Okay, a simple background check is too intrusive for these people. But how does anyone justify having access to bigger guns?
01:27
@Robusto IKR, he's pretty normal otherwise except he and his >90 y/o dad loved to watch 'Naked and Afraid' together. They used to camp in the Grand Canyon together, and in Turkey too, big places, but loved that show. They were like, 'It's a survival show: They'll find fig leaves or something; it's fine.' Haha, ah.
Word of the day: chippy tea
@HippoSawrUs Nice place to camp.
I've watched "Alone" a few times. At least they contestants get clothing.
02:03
@Robusto Yes, my FIL was stationed there, Air Force. He was a simple man, but very proud he took his boy camping often in those places. They would watch survival anything!
02:17
At some point, old white people are going to have to realize that young people, quite a few, would rather sound like Black people, who are under age 50. And no one is going to consider either/or a vernacular anymore. Just putting that out there for people to bump against from time to time like, 'OIC.' That's all of that.
@HippoSawrUs Yeah, well, I'm already inured to that.
Yes, it's just a little vent.
Many have no idea, and it's getting tiresome, but I'm not saying, not for the whole publlic.
That doesn't work out.
public
I can't see these skinny letters anymore.
02:45
@HippoSawrUs The Chair Force had a base in the Grand Canyon?
Oh, you're talking about Turkey.
BTW, sorry for the "Chair Force" dig. Nothing bad meant by it, it's just what a friend who is a civilian employee calls them. He works out of Kirkland.
03:39
@HippoSawrUs Urban youth are always urban. The heart of the nation is to be found in its amber waves.
 
3 hours later…
07:11
Wordle 665 2/6

🟩⬜🟩🟩⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
Sometimes you get lucky.
07:50
Wordle 665 4/6

⬜🟨⬜🟩⬜
⬜⬜🟩🟩⬜
🟩⬜🟩🟩🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
Neque felix, neque infelix.
08:04
So so.
08:19
Couci-couça.
Daily Octordle #446
🕚7️⃣
4️⃣8️⃣
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Score: 67
felix
08:45
Daily Octordle #446
4️⃣7️⃣
9️⃣8️⃣
🔟5️⃣
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Score: 67
"Mortuus calor" ;-)
09:34
totes Rennen; chaleur morte. According to Google translate. I doubt if either actually works.
@CowperKettle I actually attended, some time in the early 1970s, a birthday party for the Shah of Iran (who was not, as I recall, present) at the Iranian Embassy in Wasginhton, D,C, It was quite an elegant party, with good food.
09:54
I also attended, in the early 1980s, a reception given by the Romanian embassy, where the food was good but in short supply and thus ran out early. Less elegant, more directed toward finding some potential informants, but friendly on the surface,u
The party side of diplomacy, I suppose.
10:17
Etymology of the day: serac - From Switzerland French sérac (“kind of cheese; sharp tower of ice”), from Franco-Provençal sera, seré, from Latin seraceum, from serum (“whey”), from Proto-Indo-European *ser- (“to flow, run”). Sense 2 is from the resemblance of the towers of ice to the cheese, which tends to cleave into rectangular pieces.
@Xanne Wow!
@CowperKettle he is character in GTA 5 game.
I find this particular dialogue very funny.
You may want to listen others also in same video.
He is probably not a native Russian in real life.
Yet looks like native.
He is the voice actor for this character: imdb.com/name/nm3714430
 
3 hours later…
13:51
#Worldle #449 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐🏙️
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr
Flagged again.
So many flags are so similar. Unless I absolutely know them (France, Germany, UK, etc.) I'm just guessing.
🌎 Apr 15, 2023 🌍
🔥 12 | Avg. Guesses: 4.69
⬜⬜⬜🟩 = 4

globle-game.com
#globle
Wordle 665 3/6

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@Robusto Yes, there was an Air Force base and a station near Chandler, Arizona. I think they're both closed now.
@HippoSawrUs A lot of those are closed now.
@HippoSawrUs When I was in high school I was a cadet in the Civil Air Patrol. We had an encampment (two weeks living in barracks at Chanute AFB in Illinois, and taking classes in all kinds of Air Force things, from flying to fire defense to rocketry). When my son was touring the U of I when checking out colleges, I took him by there but it was long gone.
@Robusto And they were stationed overseas in Turkey too. I can't remember exactly where now.
@Robusto And some base in New Mexico too. I gather the Air Force moved a lot. We didn't so much in the Army.
14:11
@HippoSawrUs Kirkland AFB is in Albuquerque. Still operating, but mostly for research work. That's where my friend works.
My FIL retired from the AF in '76, long time ago.
@CowperKettle I like the one with Ryan Gosling's Ken in black and white with the caption "Tehran man, 1978"
@alamar "Wikipedia basically declared a war on Russia by doing so." I would call it a special informational operation. — Tadeusz Kopec yesterday
@Robusto Aw, I would've liked to see Fort Dix again, but it's something else now.
@Robusto I remember my FIL saying 'Clovis, New Mexico' (so that would be Cannon AFB?), but I can't remember now where he was actually stationed and where all he went temporarily, for training and such.
14:34
Word of the day: twunk. Fairly recent gay slang; portmanteau of twink and hunk.
I think he said Kirkland too, so many… I know he said Lackland (in TX). I think he went everywhere around there, haha, the whole SW.
@Robusto Oh, none taken, we called the AF barracks Club Med; we were so jealous.
14:50
@HippoSawrUs Yeah, Cannon is in Clovis. Still operating, I believe.
 
2 hours later…
16:21
Daily Octordle #446
9️⃣4️⃣
5️⃣6️⃣
🕐🔟
🕚8️⃣
Score: 66
@jlliagre Unus gradus descendit. ;-)
If there is every is a locale designed for purveyors of dry witticism, let's call it Drollywood.
16:39
@alphabet Twank you very mouche, dijo la grandota mosca, mosqueándote.
@tchrist You're so fly.
For a friend.
Just an amuse-mouche.
@tchrist Just a comment on all the flies in your sentence.
@Robusto Wikisti!
@tchrist You probably mean an abuse-mouche ;-)
Hmm, I see "If there is every is a locale designed for purveyors of dry witticism, let's call it Drollywood" should read "If there ever is ..." not "If there is every is ..." Although perhaps that is redeemed slightly by the fact that may be the first time anyone has made that utterance (and will probably be the last).
17:32
I almost forgot that taxes are due Tuesday; wish me luck! Enjoy your weekend. Not sure about mine yet :-{
17:54
@Robusto I would live in Drollywood. Set up a drollbooth and charge goats only a drollar to pass; but still they wouldn't get me.
18:42
@HippoSawrUs Heh, Good point.
@HippoSawrUs Tuesday? My wife, an ex-librarian/ex-accountant, had ours done in February. I didn't marry her for that, but it's nice having that kind of talent in-house. But good luck anyway!
 
1 hour later…
19:48
@Robusto Yes, Tuesday, the 18th, odd day for a deadline. Why, is the mail too heavy on Mondays? Who still mails their tax return? IDK, I worked for H&R Block for two seasons, do our taxes at the last minute every year, but we have two states all messed up…I'm not prepared.
My husband is the only talent in the house.
Thanks, I'll need it.
20:43
No, it's not about Trump.
21:21
> But all of these cases...are bound by the common thread of narcissism. Teixeira ... might be the dorkiest of these cases... The damage he is alleged to have caused looks to be immense, all because he reportedly wanted to be the boss among a clique of online pals.
"So... What are you in the slammer for?" "Leaking state secrets" "how much would you have made if you got away with it?" "What?"
2
@Mitch "Prestige among dungeon crawlers."
 
1 hour later…
22:45
@Robusto I mean it -would- give me a lot of cred...if only I had a gang to show that off to
23:42
@Mitch You mean like a posse or a crew?
Oh, fine. I guess I spent all those years in primary school for nothing ...

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