English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

00:21

@Cerberus, @RegDwight: I think the translation I'm looking for is hintereinander gehen, which loosely means "in a row" or "one after another" ... small wonder that my stupid brain kept hiding it behind an der Reihe.

Cerberus

@Robusto Oh, I see.

Achter elkaar aan gaan.

user19161

01:08

1

Q: Difference in meaning between did you speak to... and have you spoken to...?

What's the difference in meaning between "Did you speak to the landlord this morning?" and "Have you spoken to the landlord this morning?"

meaning

user19161

See @cerb, that's why I said all tense questions should be merged into one.

Cerberus

Well, the p.p. v. s.p. ones certainly should!

Unless they explain why they think their context is different.

user19161

There are probably a million such questions already.

Cerberus

Yeah it's definitely top 10.

Meysam

06:44

does "one of a kind" mean "unique"?

Matt Эллен

08:07

@Meysam yes. I can't think of a time where it doesn't.

Morning!

user19161

I am here rep-whoring again!

user963241

How can I know a list of all the words that are used to describe a person's character? Such as, Creative, Dreamer, Strategic etc.

user19161

@user963241 Have you tried googling for such a list? I don't know of any.

user963241

I'm not sure what keywords to use for lookup..

Matt Эллен

Yup, as far as I know you have to learn them as you go.

user19161

08:19

@user963241 For a start, just use those you just used.

user19161

@MattЭллен Can't you learn them as you sit?

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy you can, but it's easier to learn if you're active

@user963241 bear in mind that many words can be used as adjective in the correct context. e.g. RegDwight is quite owly

or "Mahnax's Apple-loving nature put him at odds with Cerberus"

user963241

I wish I could look up for all the adjectives in dictionary at once.

Matt Эллен

heh, you'd be there a long time, reading them. :)

Meysam

08:38

morning @Matt

Matt Эллен

hi @Meysam

Meysam

@MattЭллен did you sleep well?

what's the meaning of this lyrics:

Gravedigger

Ring around the rosey

Packet full o'posey

Ashesh to ashes

Matt Эллен

depends on the song

Meysam

@MattЭллен Here is the song lyrics: lyrics.com/gravedigger-lyrics-willie-nelson.html

Matt Эллен

"ring around the rosey/pocket full of posey" is a reference to the children's nursery rhyme about the black death. the next line of the rhyme is "ashes, ashes" which is played on by the lyric "ashes to ashes" which is what a priest says during a funeral. Ashes to ashes also the name of a David Bowie song

@Meysam oh, well in that case ashes to ashes is just a different version of ashes, ashes

Ring a Ring o' Roses

"Ring a Ring o' Roses" or "Ring Around the Rosie" is a nursery rhyme or folksong and playground singing game. It first appeared in print in 1881; but it is reported that a version was already being sung to the current tune in the 1790s. It has a Roud Folk Song Index number of 7925. Urban legend says the song originally described the plague, but folklorists reject this idea. Verses Early attestation The first printing of the rhyme was in Kate Greenaway’s 1881 edition of Mother Goose; or, the Old Nursery Rhymes: Ring-a-ring-a-roses,A pocket full of posies;Ashes! Ashes!We all fall down. ...

Meysam

08:51

@MattЭллен Interesting! Thank you

Matt Эллен

no probs :)

RegDwight ΒВBẞ8

09:29

@jcolebrand that question should have just been killed with fire.

Seriously, WTF. Look at the votes.

The MultiCollider must die.

Matt Эллен

10:43

heh, the suggested edit flag has popped up, but it's my suggested edit, so I can't review it.

Matt Эллен

11:02

ఠ⏝ఠ

ఠ⁔ఠ

KitFox

@MattЭллен Oh! My boys love that one.

Matt Эллен

It's a fun, spinning round game :D

hi @Kit!

KitFox

Hi!

I've got to get my little boy dressed and then I've got to get me to work!

Matt Эллен

good luck!

KitFox

But I figured out how I'm going to write a funny story about office supplies and sand.

Matt Эллен

11:05

oh yeah? What are you going to do?

KitFox

Not telling! You'll have to read it if I ever finish it.

BBL

blows kisses

Matt Эллен

CU

catches kisses

NinjaTurtle

Where are the kisses?

David Wallace

@MattЭллен You dropped one. I've got it! haha!

Matt Эллен

you benefit from my clumsiness. we all win!

user19161

11:16

@MattЭллен Noone blows me kisses.

user19161

1

Q: Another name for sub-sub-group

I have a group that is named "Service Group". Within that service group, there are service sub-groups. Within those service sub-groups, there is another level down. Is there another word that is better than "Service Sub-Sub-Group"? I wanted to avoid using level 1, level 2, etc. since sub-group so...

word-choice

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy next time you see someone about to blow a kiss, jump in front of the recipient and steal it! it's almost as good

user19161

Is tertiary even an answer in the above question?

Matt Эллен

yeah, sort of. not a very good one though. I wouldn't recommend it

J.R.'s answer is far better

user19161

@MattЭллен Have you heard it being used anywhere in the real world?

user19161

11:20

It just sounds plain wrong to me.

Matt Эллен

tertiary group? Yeah, it sounds familiar. I can't think where though

user19161

It might mean something else.

Matt Эллен

but you could easily argue that being third in rank, the sub-sub-group is a tertiary group

user19161

OK, that would be stretching things far.

Matt Эллен

Yeah, it's technically correct, but not something I would do

user19161

11:22

@MattЭллен I told him to write it as an answer instead of comment.

Matt Эллен

good

user19161

I am a good boy.

user19161

@Mitch Sounds quite dramatic, but not as much as my life.

KitFox

11:57

@MattЭллен Chemistry.

Matt Эллен

Ah! that'll be it :)

KitFox

blows @Jasper kisses

There now, you have your own. No need to steal others'.

I'm trying to decide if I should code in my contacts, or put my glasses back on.

Matt Эллен

hmmm. Difficult choice. I don't have contacts, and I prefer not to wear glasses to look at the screen (because it's close). Putting contacts in sounds like a good chance to be away from your computer to contemplate your code...

KitFox

It's only takes a sec. I just got new ones and didn't realize until then how awful the old ones were.

I had them in this morning so I could wear sunglasses.

These are really, really comfortable, but they don't correct my vision as well as glasses.

Also, I can almost feel the loss of my near vision. It's weird.

Matt Эллен

hmmm

maybe your glasses would be less distracting, then

KitFox

12:15

True, but girls who wear glasses are nerdy and unattractive. When I put contacts in, I am suddenly beautiful and then I have a successful prom where everyone likes me.

Matt Эллен

eh? Girls who wear glasses are hot. Hotter than girls who don't. It's scientifically proven fact.

David Wallace

Yes, +1 for women with glasses.

KitFox

Haven't you watched any teen girl makeover movies?

Matt Эллен

partly because they can peer disapprovingly over the rims

David Wallace

@KitFox Not really into teen girls, myself.

KitFox

12:17

That's what I grew up with. I wasn't going to be beautiful or popular until I got rid of my glasses, and my parents flatly refused to let me have contacts.

So I had to remain ugly and unpopular.

Poor me.

It's probably why I was sexually active at such a young age.

I should tell my mom that sometime.

David Wallace

The first woman I ever fell in love with wore glasses, and couldn't wear contacts.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox but now geeks are in charge, so all those films are unfashionable

KitFox

I couldn't wear contacts until recently.

I have terrible astigmatism in both eyes.

David Wallace

I know a few women who sometimes wear glasses and sometimes wear contacts. Without exception, they're sexier with the glasses than without.

KitFox

@MattЭллен Fat lot of good it does me now. I haven't been a real teenager in years.

But that is why it chaps my hide when people who don't need glasses wear them as a fashion statement.

Of course, I should probably park this wheelchair if I am going to start throwing stones.

Matt Эллен

12:21

@KitFox but weren't you subjected to hundreds of hours of TV programming for children telling you about how it's what's on the inside that counts, and no one should judge you on how you look?

@KitFox lol

KitFox

Yeah, sure, but the kids who harassed me daily based on how I looked were more convincing.

Matt Эллен

hmmm

user19161

1

Q: Can one suppress the pronoun "one" in a list?

On another site it sometimes happens that I give answers like: The first formula is correct but not the second one. This is probably grammatical, but I find the formulation a bit clumsy, perhaps because of the influence of other languages I am familiar with, where the pronoun one is ...

grammar writing-style

user19161

Would anyone actually say I like the blue book but not the red?

user19161

It is too much of an ellipsis for me.

Matt Эллен

12:24

one. one can suppress one if one onets

@JasperLoy it is fine. I would say it with the ellipsis or without

user19161

This question and my answer has gotten me thinking whether it is an ellipsis that turned ordinals into nouns or that ordinals became nouns and this is not an ordinary ellipsis.

user19161

@MattЭллен Although I would use ordinals there without one, I would not use ordinary adjectives like that myself.

David Wallace

@KitFox Kids harass kids who are more intelligent than they. It's not ever really about looks.

user19161

I was bullied by many people in military service.

Matt Эллен

@JasperLoy so you find the elliptical sentence difficult but not the non-elliptical?

user19161

12:27

@MattЭллен Yes. It sounds too weird.

user19161

I would say I like the blue book but not the red one.

Matt Эллен

I like the orange juice, but not the tomato <- this is difficult

I like the happy face, but not the sad <- this is not

user19161

In fact one may even say that it is not ellipsis but rather that the red has become a noun.

user19161

So you see, there are 9000 ways of looking into this simple looking matter.

user19161

That's why linguists are still in business!

user19161

12:30

Wow, now I find this discussion really interesting.

KitFox

I need a simple phrase to describe the little pocket on a door. I have "popped open the drawer on the door" but I don't like the way it sounds.

David Wallace

What little pocket?

Matt Эллен

do you have a picture? I don't know what you're describing

KitFox

The little pocket you put change in and mints and whatnot.

Matt Эллен

not something I'm familiar with

user19161

12:32

@KitFox Unseen.

KitFox

Hmm, it seems to be less common than I thought.

I am trying to find a picture of what I mean.

user19161

I have seen the hole where the dog goes through though.

user19161

It is a flap at the bottom.

David Wallace

@KitFox Never seen one of those.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox maybe a box?

KitFox

12:34

Oh. I should have mentioned car door.

Matt Эллен

oh!

oh right :D

yeah, I know what you mean

user19161

@KitFox Ah!

Matt Эллен

compartment?

KitFox

Too long. Change holder?

user19161

Anything the reader understands.

David Wallace

12:36

Oh, THAT thing! I was picturing the door of your house.

Matt Эллен

normally if I wanted someone to get something from it I'd just say "It's in the side of the [car] door"

KitFox

Maybe I don't need that detail. Maybe I am overthinking it.

Matt Эллен

@KitFox yeah, that works, but could be misconstrued as something in the middle of the car

KitFox

I am not sure if it needs to be in the door.

In my brain, it is, but is it necessary?

Matt Эллен

glove box?

David Wallace

12:37

It's a drawer? I thought that was the ashtray.

KitFox

@MattЭллен No, that is too far over.

@DavidWallace They don't have those anymore in American cars.

Nor cigarette lighters.

David Wallace

Excellent!

Matt Эллен

we still have cigarette lighters, but only because people use them for charging stuff

user19161

It really stinks to smoke in a car.

user19161

Even a smoker might faint from the smoke.

KitFox

12:38

@MattЭллен We have the outlet, but not the device that goes in it.

Matt Эллен

I see

KitFox

Although some cars have just started putting in regular outlets.

Matt Эллен

good plan

KitFox

Agreed.

user19161

Smoking is bad for health. Cigarettes should be banned. QED.

KitFox

12:39

It is a good example of how legacy systems can affect people's thinking.

Meh. I can't wait until I am old enough to start smoking again.

David Wallace

@KitFox How old is that?

Matt Эллен

80?

user19161

@DavidWallace When she becomes toothless.

KitFox

After the kids graduate college.

I knew a man in NC who didn't start smoking until he was 55. He figured it wouldn't matter after that. He was 88 when I knew him.

A fine man. Ernest Fielder.

user19161

@KitFox Both multiples of 11, interesting.

KitFox

12:43

He'd lost half a leg and parts of his fingers in a mill accident when he was my age now.

user19161

There are too many tragedies in life.

KitFox

He grew up during the civil rights movement, but he stayed out of trouble. One time when he was 12, the police picked him up on the bus and held him for questioning for a few hours.

His mother was terrified about what might have happened to him.

But he was OK, and nothing else happened after that.

Matt Эллен

pretty lucky

on that front at least

KitFox

His love life was pretty interesting too.

He was married really young, and his first wife died in childbirth.

user19161

Very unlucky to lose his body parts, but I hope he did not lose his mind.

KitFox

12:45

He fell in love with another woman, but they were only married a few years before they divorced.

user19161

Wow, you seem to know much about this man.

KitFox

Then he was married for twelve years, but she left him for his best friend.

Matt Эллен

some best friend!

KitFox

Then, at church one day, here comes his second wife. She asks him what he's doing after the service.

user19161

But is he a good man?

KitFox

12:46

Next thing you know, they've been married for 50 years.

She died about two, three years before I met him.

Matt Эллен

is that his 3rd wife or the same second wife?

KitFox

His second and fourth wife were the same person.

user19161

And is they he and her or his best friend and her?

Matt Эллен

ok, I lost count :D

user19161

Geezis, what a story! One day I will publish mine into a book.

KitFox

12:49

He was really something. I liked him very much. He had a slow way of talking and a quiet chuckle. He had a sense of humor about life, and laughed about how much the world could change in one man's lifetime.

user19161

Somehow that makes me think of Robusto.

KitFox

It's funny you should say that. I think Robusto's character is very much like Fielder's.

user19161

Except that Robusto's chuckle is more naughty.

user19161

@KitFox Of course, I understand people more than they understand themselves. QED.

user19161

So one of my friend's girlfriend is back with him after I told her he cheated on her.

user19161

12:53

They should be getting married soon.

user19161

I hope he does not cheat on her after that.

David Wallace

Leopards don't change their spots. Nor do cheaters.

KitFox

Maybe she doesn't care if he cheats on her.

user19161

People are conflicted.

user19161

I have never cheated, because I have always been single, haha.

David Wallace

12:59

Maybe she thinks she can change him.

user19161

People can change, but it is difficult.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…