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10:00 PM
Oh, yes, I can see the orchestra wouldn't even fill an orchestra pit in a theater.
 
And it just doesn't work at all.
It only works as a whole.
 
The genius of Bach.
 
It comes together from bits that don't even make sense on their own.
One part reharmonizes another, and both get taken somewhere else by the third.
 
> Antonio Salieri: [reflecting upon Mozart's scores] Astounding! It was actually, it was beyond belief. These were first and only drafts of music, but they showed no corrections of any kind. Not one. He had simply written down music already finished in his head! Page after page of it as if he were just taking dictation.
And music, finished as no music is ever finished. Displace one note and there would be diminishment. Displace one phrase and the structure would fall. It was clear to me that sound I had heard in the Archbishop's palace had been no accident. Here again was the very Voice of
From Amadeus. But it works for Bach too.
 
Yeah those guys wrote fucking fast.
And they had fountain pens and paper was expensive.
They had to get it right first try.
 
10:03 PM
Beethoven made a mess of his scores.
 
Yeah
And his hair apparently.
 
Still better than Bob Dylan.
 
Well, he was always better than that.
 
And he didn't even know. And never will.
No good deed goes unpunished.
 
10:05 PM
“I like a lot of Bob’s songs, though musically he’s not very gifted. He’s borrowed his voice from old hillbillies. He’s got a lot of borrowed things. He’s not a great guitar player. He’s invented a character to deliver his songs. Sometimes I wish that I could have that character — because you can do things with that character. It’s a mask of sorts.”
 
Thank fuck there's no Nobel prize for music.
 
That's Joni Mitchell commenting on Dylan.
 
A close friend of mine has been to every Dylan concert in like the last 30 years. And owns every recording ever.
 
Well ...
I have a lot of Dylan records, but I don't listen to them all that much.
 
I let it pass because he is also the biggest Cash fan. And not the smallest of Simon.
He listens to a lot of really good music. But not from a lot of different places.
He knows nothing of Russia or Japan. Or Ives, for that matter.
 
10:08 PM
But, back to Bach, the smaller ensemble always gives more definition, sounds more spare, more astringent almost.
 
But what about eight French horns. You gotta have more French horns.
And a Steinway that's louder than the organ.
Really though. Isn't this once again our point about limitations.
 
Very echt performance, btw. They're playing wooden flutes, perhaps of the 6-hole kind.
> I am astonished at the fact that the choristers and soloists perform by heart !!!
 
I only have one recording of Gardiner that I own. Three concertos by Mozart. The rest I just keep randomly bumping into.
 
Well, I hate to tell you, but your average orchestral musician could play the entire repertoire by heart.
 
I'm astonished that that person typed that comment by heart and didn't have to get a book first where it was typed out for him.
It's not just random sounds. They make sense and tell a story. It's not that hard to remember a story that makes sense.
So anyway just to finish the thought. That Mozart recording redefined Mozart for me. I got it as a present when I was like 17.
Up until then Mozart was this joker that just did tonic-dominant all the time.
Then I listened to Gardiner and those three pieces were like the darkest Beethoven you can picture.
I never knew he had that kind of music in him.
 
10:22 PM
He was far more than I-V all the time.
 
Is what I discovered, yes. Thanks to Gardiner.
No thanks to Rieu.
Just found the CD. It's a very low KV actually, 271.
Part 2, Andantino.
He's got color in there you wouldn't believe.
And people say Beethoven was the first romantic composer.
 
BTW, they're using oboes d'amore in that version of the St. Matt's.
Cool.
@RegDwigнt That's certainly the received wisdom, but it doesn't stand up under scrutiny.
Look at Don Giovanni fer chrissakes.
 
Well yes.
But that's what I'm saying.
You have to learn scrutiny.
You have to know it even exists.
And it's good when you do that at the age of 17 rather than 37.
 
Beethoven never lost his formal classicism, even though that could be hard to see sometimes.
 
Just two days ago YouTube started shoving this horrible commercial down my throat. For some piano manufacturer. Where a bunch of people in a bunch of places play Mozart.
Now take a guess which piece they play.
545 of course.
That is fucking Mozart for the masses.
 
10:28 PM
Is that the C major?
 
Well yes.
 
Of course.
The other cliché is this one:
But it's deeper than you might think. It's like a little operetta in one movement.
 
Thing is, even if you take the 40th Symphony, which of course is quite popular as well, it's like the happiest thing he's ever written compared to some of the other things he wrote.
 
The single defining characteristic of Mozart, IMO, is that all of his melodies are really vocal melodies.
 
And all his piano pieces are orchestral pieces really.
 
10:33 PM
Sep 8 at 0:50, by Robusto
In fact, Mozart was the most lyrical of composers, I find. His every instrumental movement was an aria; his symphonies were operas. Every musical line was a vocal line, precious and pure. This may be the secret of his genius—not, as most people think, his absolute harmonic and contrapuntal virtuosity.
I've said it before, I guess. But it is worth saying again.
 
Though I do question whether he sat down and wrote the Jupiter in one fell swoop.
That is like yo dawg, I heard you like counterpoint so I put some counterpoint in your counterpoint. It's not even funny.
It would seem to me even Mozart would have to craft that very meticulously.
That thumbnail really is all you need to know.
Meanwhile elsewhere,
0
Q: Is the phrase "Those one track minds" grammatically correct?

Oleksandr ShpotaThere is an interesting grammatical construction in the song Shout by Tears For Fears. They really really ought to know Those one track minds That took you for a working boy Kiss them goodbye I'm interested in the phrase "Those one track minds" which for me sounds incorrect...

 
@RegDwigнt I thought I'd seen this guy before. And I have:
 
I've seen the Jupiter analysis before. I've not seen this one.
 
> The Jupiter Symphony's finale strikes the listener as an extremely academic, meticulously worked out movement, in which the learned sections truly achieve an elevated level of expression. In contrast, the "learned" sections of the quintet's finale, and especially the final climax, strike the listener as jocular in character.
It seems more the result of his own capricious musical personality than of a desire to create something elevated in style. In fact, he is almost parading his ability to do effortlessly what other composers find enormously difficult.
Actually, I disagree. Nothing in Mozart ever strikes me as "extremely academic" ...
 
10:48 PM
Well that ties in into our earlier point. If it doesn't strike academians as academic, it certainly doesn't a regular Joe.
Mozart could sit down with a calculator to write three bars in two months, and you still would get something very easygoing sounding.
 
Mozart would have found academic exercises too boring to waste time writing down. It had to be music or he didn't write it.
 
Well frankly he didn't have the time.
 
Tru dat.
 
More than 40 symphonies in less than 40 years.
I don't think even Nino Rota managed to pull off that much.
 
Haydn did, IIRC.
 
10:52 PM
Rota scored like twenty movies every year for thirty years or something.
 
But Haydn didn't have Mozart's gift.
 
I actually have it written down somewhere lemme check.
> Nino Rota scored over 150 movies in 46 years, sometimes more than ten in a single year. That's in addition to writing dozens of chamber, choral, and orchestral works, including a string concerto, and scoring numerous theatrical productions, including five ballets and ten operas. All the while working as a music professor. To call the man tireless would be an understatement. He conducted his first oratorio at the age of eleven and then basically never stopped until his death in 1979.
Rota was friends with Stravinski, occasionally dove into twelve-tone music, and in general simply loved thi
@Robusto compared to the other two, I think I might as well say I don't know any Haydn at all.
He's that below-the-radar guy.
 
Well, he was a friend of Mozart's, though 20 years older. He also outlived Mozart by 20 years. He also was one of Beethoven's teachers, I think.
 
But I think Haydn wrote like 500 string quartets and twice as many trios and then over 9000 quintetts or something.
Maybe I'm getting him confused with someone else but I wouldn't know where to check.
 
Yes, and they're all perfectly ... fine. But without that spark of genius one gets from Mozart.
Telemann is another one who would grind them out.
 
10:57 PM
Or Leopold Mozart, mind.
I just found a piece of his in my piano book from my childhood that I now use to teach other kids. And I played it and was like, yup, that's why you have the L in the name and not the W.
 
Yeah. How I feel about C.P.E Bach, et al.
They say talent skips a generation.
 
Yeah and then all these guys would go ahead and collectively not have any grandchildren.
I recently watched some video on whether any Beethovens were still alive.
Executive summary: nope, not for two hundred years.
Stravinsky might have grandchildren actually.
 
Apparently Stravinsky's son didn't get a lot of fatherly love, or at least encouragement.
jinx-ish
 
> As a pianist, he was considered an important interpreter of the works of his father, Igor Stravinsky,[2] but as a composer he was overshadowed by his father.
Double jinx with cherry on top.
Well you don't say. Your father is Stravinsky and you're not quite as good as him. Hmm.
 
Yeah.
Follow that, bitch.
You too, CPE and the other little Bachlets.
 
11:07 PM
Just take a bassoon and make it play real high. Easy.
 
Or would it be Bächleinen?
 
Good question.
Well the plural of Bächlein would be Bächleins.
But I feel like you would say it completely differently entirely.
 
No doubt.
 
Though to your defense, you did.
Hm.
I think the most derisive thing would be to go with Swabian. Bächles.
That sounds really mean.
 
I remember the day Stravinsky died. I was ill with the flu and a cold spring wind had descended upon Chicago.
The local FM station, WFMT, played his music all day.
 
11:11 PM
Kudos to them.
@Robusto BTW that's some Shostakovich right there.
Also, don't try and plug that into a MIDI synth.
Had it on pause the whole time and only finished it now.
Fucking hard to play, too. I started with chromatic scales just last Wednesday. They must be the bane of any string player's existence. And here you have to play them super fast. Ugh.
 
11:37 PM
@RegDwigнt OMG THAT FIRST ONE IS NO HARD SIGN
It's easy.
 
Well they have to be a pair of parens.
That's the closest I could think of to a mirror image.
I didn't want to go d Ь.
We want to scare tchrist, not kill him.
 
@tchrist Congratulations!!
I do hope you're 18.
@RegDwigнt Fair enough!
 
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