English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2018-09-24

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6:14 AM

Hi guys, hope you can help me with this:
> I am interested in getting free software updates, as well as be able to contact customer support.

I have a feeling that `be` should actually be `being` but I couldn't explain why `be` is correct or wrong and why `being` is correct or wrong. Appreciate your thoughts about this. I would like to be enlightened by some grammatical rules (I have a feeling that it's related to gerund phrase and object of the preposition `in`.

6:36 AM

@user1764381 You're right, it should be "being." This is because of parallelism. When you make a list, you want to keep the same verb form between items in the list. "As well as" is essentially creating a list that branches off of "I am interested in." This list creates two sentences: "I am interested in getting free software updates" and "I am interested in being able to contact customer support."

"I am interested in be able to contact customer support" isn't grammatical and also does not maintain parallelism.

Read more here if you are interested: grammarly.com/blog/parallelism

@TommyTran, thank you! Will check it out.

@TommyTran, would you mind expanding on why "I am interested in be able to contact customer support" is not grammatical? I know that it is not but I don't know the exact rule that says that it is not.

It is because "in" is a preposition and the word that follows it (AKA the object of the preposition) must be a noun or a word acting as a noun. "Be" is a verb and cannot become the object of the preposition, but by turning it into a gerund ("Being") we can have it become the object of the preposition. @user1764381

@TommyTran, thank you so much!

No problem ^^

7:04 AM

0

Q: what's an intelligent \ sophisticated way to say "changing from negative to positive

i am currently working on a new website for posting daily articles and guides on gaining full control of your mentality. What i am inquiring for, is a sophisticated but brief way of saying "to change from something from negative to positive. example: to change negative thoughts to a positive ...

single-word-requests

1 hour later…

8:04 AM

@Mitch Violence is my middle name.

@JasperLoy Oh, interesting. I'd like to learn Greek because whenever I encounter a new English word, its root is Greek. So I think learning Greek could improve my English a little bit.

3 hours later…

11:08 AM

0

Q: Stuffy, blocked nose blocked sinuses

What’s the adjective beginning with ‘c’ that describes someone who has a snotty nose and mucus filling their sinuses. Probably synonymous with “stuffy”. I would be feeling much better if I wasn’t so _______ I think it sounds something like congealed.

single-word-requests

11:44 AM

Morning

anyone awake

2 hours later…

1:51 PM

@Mathematics fraid so

@KannE Space Family Robinson ... is what it should have been. Lost In Space

There was a remake recently

@Curio You can say "I was flopping about" or "I was flailing about" but I have to admit that "I was standing about" sounds strange because there's no way you can really stand "about" as opposed to just standing.

I have a problem with constructing a sentence. Can I ask here?

Sure @IgorV.

I want to challenge someone. There is a list of visited mountain peaks, sorted randomly. Sentence now goes like this: Get to the higher point than previous one.

That implies that the *point* in question is the last mountain peak in the list, but it has to be the highest one.

Other thing that is bothering me is the word point. Is the peak okay? And what would be a proper synonym for visited in terms of climbing to the top, not only purely visiting?

1 hour later…

3:13 PM

@IgorV. Peak? Ascend?

3:47 PM

@Gigili your parents have .... interesting taste in names

What I mean to say is...

@TommyTran Any thoughts? @MetaEd Ascend sounds good.

4:07 PM

@TommyTran what about "walking about"?

4:23 PM

@Curio Walking about sounds good. @IgorV. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what you're asking exactly. Peak is okay.

4:43 PM

user image

Kindly answer. I want to check something.

@Mitch Yes. That really cleared it up for me. Thank you.

5:08 PM

@TommyTran I have a list that is populated over time with values in random order. Every value stand for elevation of a mountain peak. How can I state that the highest point has to be overtaken?

5:56 PM

As a thank you for all your informative answers:

user image

6:15 PM

@Færd I think even then I hear myself reading it :-)

7:12 PM

@Færd Either A or C, but A sounds more like it.

You're welcome by the way.

7:48 PM

@MetaEd These audiobooks sell well, you know.

@Gigili Thanks. I'm not the only one who disagrees with the answer key then.

It says B.

My answer was C.

It can't be A. B and C are both marginally correct. IMO.

Especially C, since the passage is about the application of scientifish theories in sci-fi.

8:22 PM

is this proper english?

> A similar concept to this are echo chambers.

So I've got an answer to this question, but it's totally intuition-based. english.stackexchange.com/questions/465555/…

Should I go ahead and post answers based purely in intuition, or do I need to have something to back it up?

My answer would be something like: 'In some constructions, a 'by'-phrase can be used to indicate the subject of a verb. This can be used with the passive voice, as in "the cake was eaten by Tim", and with verbal nouns, as in "the demolition of the building by Acme, Inc". But a 'by'-phrase such as these cannot attach to an infinitive.'

@Færd I thought it was certainly D.

The paragraph is clearly talking about Jurassic Park and why it's entertaining, so that seems to eliminate A. B seems to contradict the paragraph's point that the events in the book and film don't seem improbable, given the explanation that they contain.

8:49 PM

I would pick either B or C.

I don't think it's D because it doesn't say that it's based on any scientific research. It's just an idea that seems science-ish.

Which science fiction stories usually use. Ideas that aren't scientific and aren't realistically possible but are science-ish enough to suspend our disbelief. (Soft) science fiction is basically a differently-flavored form of fantasy, imo.

Actually, I think I would pick B over C. The paragraph says nothing about skill, just that it the suspension of disbelief was a big part of why Jurassic Park was successful

If the paragraph were about skill, it would talk about how storytellers must use a variety of techniques to create and maintain a suspension of disbelief, and maybe about how other movies failed to do so in the way that Jurassic Park did... But it didn't. It doesn't say anything about skill.

I wouldn't pick A either because it doesn't say anything about how science fiction led to important scientific discoveries. It even says the methodology was flawed and the idea would never work in real life.

I think it's initially a hard pick between B or C, but if you think about it a little more you'll rule out C. @Færd

9:13 PM

@Færd Why not?

9:40 PM

@TommyTran It doesn't say anything about skill, it doesn't say anything about entertainment either.

The question is asking about the writer's purpose, which probably is not a ready-to-go sentence from the text.

"... the premise was science-ish enough to let us suspend our disbelief and revel in the return of the dinosaurs." I think that's talking about people choosing to believe the improbable in order to be entertained.

The rest of the paragraph is supporting that last sentence.

Isn't "revelling in the return of the dinosaurs" being entertained by it?

10:04 PM

@Færd I picked C or D. I would probably say either is valid.

@TommyTran I can kind of follow your reasoning against D, that it might not be actual scientific research that is the source of entertainment. But indirectly, it is: it is scientific research that gave the script writers the idea that DNA could be extracted from old insects. And that made the premise of the story more interesting / more fun.

So I still wouldn't rule out D.

@TommyTran I don't think I agree with this: the suspension of disbelief is necessary and true, but it is not the main point the author is trying to make.

His point is that the script succeeds because it is so plausible=sciency.

I think B is really not right.

C is a little bit too generic; D is a tiny bit too direct compared to the actual message.

But I still think C and D might both be acceptable answers.

Hm. I was thinking more that it succeeds because it is seemingly plausible but not rooted in actual science. "The idea that viable dinosaur DNA might be retrieved from bloodsucking prehistoric insect seemed like a project that could actually succeed (to the general population of people who are watching the movie. To the general population, it seemed like it could succeed even though it never actually would -- and that's why the movie succeeded.)"

I still think B is right.

So I interpreted the paragraph as being written more from the point of view as a movie-goer who interprets the explanations as a "plausible way to bring dinosaurs back to life" and as ideas that "seemed like they could actually succeed."

Instead of being written from a scientist's viewpoint who declares the ideas to be actually plausible, scientifically.

@Færd Yes, people may choose to believe the improbably in order to be entertained; and that is indeed what is happening in the case of Juressic Park; but that is i.m.o. not the point the author is trying to make here. His point is that the film succeeds because it is so plausible / to science-ish.

So I think B is really not the point.

So to me, it's talking more about the illusion of plausibility that lead to the movie's success.

@TommyTran Yes, so it's irrelevant whether it might actually work: the audience doesn't know this, so it doesn't affect their entertainment. As long as it seems like it might.

Yes, and that's why I think it's B. It's all about the suspension of disbelief that was maintained so well in the movie.

10:17 PM

Let us suppose that the method used in Jurassic Park might actually work. How would that change this paragraph?

He would have left out the part where he says that it won't work in reality.

The last sentence would be totally different. Yes.

But what else would have have changed?

Or would he not have written the paragraph at all?

@TommyTran He'd only need to leave out the even though clause; the final part of the sentence could stay.

And the rest of the text.

And the message would still be the same.

> One of the reasons Jurassic Park was so successful–as a novel and a blockbuster film–is that it presented a plausible way to bring dinosaurs back to life. The idea that viable dinosaur DNA might be retrieved from bloodsucking prehistoric insects seemed like a project that could actually succeed. The premise was science-ish enough to let us suspend our disbelief and revel in the return of the dinosaurs.

I don't think so. The last sentence ("Although the ideas were not scientifically plausible, they seemed to be so, and this is what allowed us to suspend our disbelief and become completely immersed in the movie") seems to be the main point of it. If he were talking about it being actually scientific, why would he conclude the paragraph with "science-ish enough to fly under our radar" instead of "scientific enough to immerse us in realistic possibilities" or something like that?

I agree that it's clear enough even without that clause that it isn't possible.

But I think that isn't his point.

Alright, well... I think we're reaching diminishing returns here. :P

10:26 PM

His point is that its plausibility makes it extra entertaining; he contrasts it with e.g. a wizard recreating dinosaurs using magic: that would seem less plausible, because it is less sciency, and therefore less entertaining. For it makes the suspension of disbelief harder.

And suspension of disbelief makes it entertaining. If we don't have that, it's less fun.

I, uh, agree with that.

Even if it isn't actually possible, the fact that is seems somewhat possible to a lay audience makes it more entertaining than a method that is clearly impossible.

Yes, I agree with that as well. Isn't what I said earlier?

> B.i. to argue that people may choose to believe the improbable in order to be entertained
B.ii. suspension of disbelief is easier when the premise is somewhat sciency, and s.o.d. is entertaining

Yes.

10:30 PM

If it had said B.ii., I would have agreed with you. That is the point the author is making.

But B.i., while true and consistent with the author's views, is not the point he is making here.

I just thought B was the closest option to what I had in mind because it mentions (or approaches) the idea of suspension of disbelief.

But s.o.d. is only part of his main argument.

And you think it's talking more about the science, so that's why you said D? I can see that.

It might not necessarily have to be sciency, as long as it is plausible. And science is often a good way to make something appear plausible, so the sciency stuff works well in this story.

@William No.

10:37 PM

But I think @Færd's point was that the exercise is unclear.

Several answers might be possible.

And I agree with that.

I would have picked C or D but I wouldn't have been 100% happy with either.

Oh, well.

It's just an exercise.

Making good exercises is terribly difficult.

Or rather, the test makers intentionally make the reading questions confusing and unclear.

I think so. :P

Heh.

Nah.

Have you tried making reading-comprehension questions?

It's really hard.

No, I haven't. But I believe you.

Here's a question. In a situation where the paragraph and questions are written in such a way for multiple answers to be plausible, is the fault on the paragraph (for not clearly expressing a single point well enough) or the questions (for having answers that are all simultaneously plausible for the question to be controversial)? Or is it just normal for humans to read and come out with different ideas -- it is not a matter of bad reading comprehension but a matter of people naturally having

differing interpretations and opinions?

@TommyTran I would say the answers aren't good enough.

There needs to be exactly one answer that is clearly the best one if you are an intelligent reader with the required skills.

Between the three, I can't decide.

Yeah, the answers were bad.

10:52 PM

The text wasn't written to be part of an exercise. It was taken from an article.

Ah, that's also an important point. Maybe I should have said that it was the fault of the test-makers for choosing the wrong paragraph. Perhaps they could have chosen one later in the article or something. This paragraph seems like it might be taken too out of context. It would be much easier to pick an answer if we had the surrounding paragraphs, but we don't, so the paragraph on its own is too vague to clearly choose an answer.

So I should have said it could have been a poorly chosen paragraph, not a poorly written one. My bad.

It's complicated, I think.

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Sep '1824

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