English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:02

Congratulations!

Thirty euro, in coins of five cents?

The ruckus didn't alert you?

Færd

02:27

Word fatigue is a thing. I can only learn so many words a day. And if I push too hard, my head may be out of order for a couple days.

Switching the language could be refreshing and increase the capacity, but not always.

I may have a nervous condition.

Færd

03:00

Ethiopia & Eritrea Sign Declaration of Peace, Ending Two Decades of Conflict

Congrats E&E!

I wish for a united Africa, united Middle East, united Europe, ... united World. May that dream come true in my lifetime.

(it most probably won't)

Cerberus

03:17

@Færd Are you actively learning new words?

@Færd Yes, things have been going well in Aethiopia!

And Eritrea was willing!

It's still a horrible police state with decades of forced labour for young people, but it's progress.

@Færd Do they really have to be united?

Can't they remain but coöperate closely?

Færd

@Cerberus Yeah. I savor every good news I can get from anywhere.

@Cerberus I dunno. Not at war and not exploiting each other unfairly, at least.

Cerberus

Right!

Færd

Not harboring deep grudges based on random differences.

@Cerberus Yeah, from several languages now.

Cerberus

Well, I would say Europe, North America, Australia, and most of South America are fairly peaceful on their own continents, and there isn't that much exploitation of other countries, again within their own continents.

@Færd Cool, which?

@Færd That will take some more time...

Færd

@Cerberus The ones I constantly talk about here! English, German, French, Esperanto, Arabic, and of course Farsi.

It's hard to keep count now.

Cerberus

03:24

So many!

Can you think of any new words you learned in English?

Færd

The problem is that my brain breaks down after a period of hard work.

Cerberus

This being the English room.

@Færd What source and what method do you use to learn those new words?

Færd

Well, in English I'm mostly laboring to realize and remember the nuances between synonymous words, among other things.

Cerberus

Any examples?

Færd

Which counts as learning words still.

Like beg, implore, plead, etc.

Cerberus

03:26

Ah, OK.

I had this word list I started like 15 years ago.

Færd

Basically any list sequence of words in your thesaurus goes.

@Cerberus How does it work?

@Cerberus I try to keep it diverse: dictionaries, videos, podcasts, books, etc.

Cerberus

> cudgel knuppel

obtuse dom, stomp

pewter piauter [legering lood-tin]

torpor loomheid
-languor
-lassitude
-listlessness

alack-a-day
(lackadaisical) sentimenteel

languish kwijnen
-pine (pijnboom)

sundry allerlei

apprehend vrezen; vatten

tenet grondstelling

rant hoogdravend uitvaren

rail heftig uitvaren
-inveigh
-fulminate (donderen, exploderen)

peal donderen, klinken

harangue donderpreek

bluster snoeverij; geraas, gedonder; uitvaren

lambast iemand op zijn donder geven

lambent glinsterend

It begins thus.

There are about 1500 or 2000 words in it.

All taken from texts I was reading at the time.

But I last edited it in 2011, I see now.

Færd

Interesting!

They are mostly alien to me.

How much of it do you think you've kept alive in your head?

Cerberus

Well, I'd have to look though the list...but I think I have a general idea of the large majority of them.

As to how many I would use actively, I don't know.

And many of them have several different subtly different uses that I'm probably not super familiar with.

The goal was to be able to understand them in context, which I think I am mostly capable of now.

Færd

Yeah. You need constant revision to keep them fresh.

@Cerberus Yes, that's more readily achievable.

Cerberus

03:34

Just through regular reading; I don't think I spent much time actually memorizing the list. But writing down those words and looking them up, thinking about them, helped, so they stuck more easily upon repeated 'occurrence' later in my reading.

>
seasonable

sobriety

dionysiac

betimes

haemorrhage

outlay

inset

apparent

clamp down

take a dim view

thrall

prostrate

reprisal

crenelate

pole

rickety

alarums

orta

excruciate

preamble

whirl

deplore

round-up

malleability

scuppers

This is the bottom.

That word pole, for example, I must have added because it was used in a weird way, as the ordinary us of the word is well known to me.

Orta, I have no idea what that means.

Færd

Hmm. Nice.

Cerberus

Inset, maybe I could guess.

The rest I can come up with meanings for, but they may be used in ways I am not familiar with. Most are not words I would ever actively use.

Færd

there are common basic rules for how our minds learn and remember things, and each has its peculiarities too.

Cerberus

For example, maybe I read heir apparent and wondered what apparent meant in that context. I don't remember.

@Færd No doubt!

What works best for you?

Færd

By intense focusing on such lists, I'd say your mind learns how to pigeonhole new input and learn them.

So you may not continue the same practice, but the effect remains with you.

@Cerberus I need context, as I think all of us do.

Cerberus

03:39

Quite possibly!

@Færd Yes, absolutely.

I took all of those words from a context.

Færd

And I need several reviews dispersed over a period of maybe 10 days at least.

Cerberus

What if you encounter the same word elsewhere, in a text you happen to be reading, or after the ten days but several more times?

Færd

And I need fun and diversity. I need to switch from film to text to audiobooks to whatnot.

@Cerberus Do you mean that's a problem? I don't understand.

And I need to take notes. Writing things down with the plain old pen and paper is really helpful.

@Cerberus Something set in?

@Cerberus Yeah, even the simplest words have odd or obsolete uses.

Cerberus

@Færd So reading a novel alone doesn't help you?

@Færd Oh, I meant, does it still help when it goes like that?

@Færd I remember!

Færd

@Cerberus I can't sit down and do the same thing for too long. Like, I'm mentally unable to. Unless I'm pressed to do so by a deadline or something. It's strange.

Cerberus

03:46

@Færd Yeah, like maybe a jewel set in a silver ring, or I don't know.

@Færd Not even when the novel is super exciting and you can't wait to read what happens next?

Færd

@Cerberus Sure. But I find too much repetition to have a numbing effect. You need to revise what you learn when it requires some effort to dig and brush it up.

@Cerberus Maybe, but in that case I won't focus on individual words, but on the storyline.

Cerberus

You have to force yourself to stop and jot down words you're unsure about.

Færd

It could get really tiring after a while. I dread the nervous fatigue.

Cerberus

Hmm.

The worst that might happen to me is that I forgot to write down any words when I'm really absorbed.

But at least then I will still learn to some degree.

Færd

Good for you!

Cerberus

03:53

As I am sure you would!

Færd

Yes. I meant your worst-case scenario is not too bad.

Cerberus

Right.

Feeds

04:35

0

Q: Is there a word for "unable to communicate with"?

As in if you learn a language, then you're now able to speak with someone that you otherwise wouldn't be able to communicate with. I'm writing a paper and that word as an adjective would be very useful. Using that whole phrase sounds clunky in an already lengthy sentence. Thanks!

single-word-requests

RegDwigнt

09:16

@Cerberus which part of "notes" do you not understand that you have to ask if they were coins? :-D

And no, the notes made no ruckus.

Also I don't sit anywhere next to my washing machine. It's not even on the same floor. So yeah you could use it as a cement mixer, I wouldn't notice.

Cup Fever

in Language Overflow, yesterday, by snailboat

The 2018 ELL moderator election has begun! https://ell.meta.stackexchange.com/q/4737/230

PSA

:-)

Feeds

09:36

0

Q: what do we call something we do just to show off we are doing it?

what do we call something we do just to show off we are doing it? when there is no real intention in doing it, and it has no meaning to us. for example, everyone is writing about women rights, so our organization tries not to fall behind and prepares a manifest. they do not really mean what they...

single-word-requests

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Few unique characters in body, no whitespace in body, repeating characters in body, repeating characters in title, title has only one unique char: hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh by Adam on english.SE

RegDwigнt

10:17

Where is everyone, anyway?

Oh, never mind, found y'all.

Toutlemonde

Toutlemonde est une commune française située dans le département de Maine-et-Loire, en région Pays de la Loire. La commune est créée en 1864. Ses habitants sont appelés les Toutlemondais. == Géographie == Commune angevine des Mauges, Toutlemonde se situe à la périphérie de Cholet, sur les routes D 158, Cholet, D 148, Nuaillé / Yzernay, et D 158, Chanteloup-les-Bois. Elle est juxtaposée aux communes de Cholet, de Mazières-en-Mauges, de Maulévrier, de Vezins, de Chanteloup-les-Bois et de Nuaillé. == Toponymie == == Histoire == === Ancien Régime === Bien que mentionné dans certains doc...

When did you move to France. And why.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at end of answer, potentially bad keyword in answer: Hello Friend Please Suggest Me the Best Assignment Site? by Sellina John on english.SE

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Manually reported question: Hello Friend Please Suggest Me the Best Assignment Site? by williamjohnbme on english.SE

Matt E. Эллен

10:32

@RegDwigнt I moved there when I realised they would win the world cup and I couldn't speak french, so I wouldn't understand what they were talking about, but I'd know.

@CupFever which is more important: the world cup or the ELL mod elections?

RegDwigнt

11:11

You misspelled "which is least important".

Matt E. Эллен

11:27

You misspelt "that's the same thing backwards"

Feeds

12:13

0

Q: How to rephrase "will become easier"

Is there a word that can shorten "will become easier"? For example in this context: Moving boulders will become easier as better wheelcarts become available.

single-word-requests

RegDwigнt

13:00

@MattE.Эллен that is a patent lie. Never once in my life have I misspelled ƃuıɥʇ ǝɯɐs ǝɥʇ s,ʇɐɥʇ.

RegDwigнt

13:16

Some funny questions on the main site again today.

Matt E. Эллен

13:30

what's your favourite right now?

RegDwigнt

The one that goes along the lines of 'I looked up cat in a dictionary, and it said that it means "cat", but I don't like how that implies "dog". Is there a better word for cat that does not imply "dog"?'

And im liek duuuuuuuuude

Mitch

@RegDwigнt ??? link? I mean there are some dumb questions about cats but none involving dogs.

Like 'Why a cat?'

That's a dumb question.

RegDwigнt

I am obviously paraphrasing precisely so as not to single someone out.

Mitch

Oh no. You have to name names

RegDwigнt

It's Donald Trump.

Mitch

13:38

otherwise this will devolve into aggressively passive aggressive passivity

RegDwigнt

And he's posting idiot questions on ELU.

But I didn't want to say.

Mitch

@RegDwigнt I wish you had listened to yourself and not me

RegDwigнt

I always listen to myself. That's my job.

Nobody has ever composed any music by listening to you.

Well except maybe Beethoven.

Mitch

Hey! I thought I killed that fly yesterday. And now there are two. Darn.

RegDwigнt

It's called procreating.

It has been ordained in the Bible.

Mitch

13:41

Not that fly stuff. Flies are not mentioned in the Bible.

RegDwigнt

The only thing that helps against it is flooding the world entire.

Mitch

But they are in the Odyssey

RegDwigнt

You should get on it if you want to be done by tea time.

Mitch

So that explains a lot that no one cares about

RegDwigнt

Most things that are explained, nobody cares about.

Mitch

13:42

@RegDwigнt Screw tea time. I'm having some right now.

RegDwigнt

Flood the world with tea, then. Cut the middleman.

Mitch

@RegDwigнt Thanks. A lot.

RegDwigнt

I looked up the definition of "explain" in a dictionary and it said "to make manifest or intelligible; to clear of obscurity; to illustrate the meaning of". But I don't like how that implies "shit no one cares about". Is there a better word for "explain" that does not imply "shit that no one cares about"?

Mitch

I still don't see no dog question

RegDwigнt

Seriously though. They explain "explain" by using fucking manifest, intelligible, and obscurity. That's like the opposite of explaining it.

Mitch

13:47

You should see how they explain 'manifest'

it's a mess

RegDwigнt

I don't like how "manifest" implies a mess. Is there a less-Christian word for "manifest"?

Mitch

Anyway, dictionaries are not your mom.

You expect a dictionary to pull up your pants?

Make you hot chocolate?

RegDwigнt

I dunno what you're on about, mate, your mom never pulls my pants up.

Mitch

haha. that's funny because you don't know my mom and what she's never done.

mmm... tea

Ohh... did you mean 'luck' when you said 'dog'?

RegDwigнt

That makes no sense. If I really didn't know your mom, then I could name an unlimited amount of things she's never done. Ergo, concordantly, and also thus, I must know your mom very well.

@Mitch hey I'm talking about your mom, don't interrupt.

We're not done here.

That's what she said.

Mitch

13:53

Said the bishop to the vicar

RegDwigнt

Fun fact: in German "vicar" is pronounced the same as "ficker", which means "fucker".

Mitch

Hilarious those Germans

RegDwigнt

Which is probably why they opted to have bishops instead.

Though really I personally prefer straight shops.

Mitch

Ooh... I have a joke about Germany.

RegDwigнt

Something something Hitler Hitler.

Mitch

13:54

Why do Germans have no sense of humor?

It was taken away as part of war reparations.

RegDwigнt

Sоmething something Hitler Hitler.

Mitch

ha ha ha hah aha ha

It was told to me by a German.

RegDwigнt

Fuck this chat. I spent the last ten seconds frantically trying to post "Something something Hitler Hitler" but it wouldn't let me because I'd already posted that.

Mitch

Now that I think about it, it's not funny

goddamit

RegDwigнt

There I found a cheat.

Mitch

13:56

@RegDwigнt It does that for your own good. Unlike your mom.

RegDwigнt

Yeah except it doesn't work. Ask @tchrist. It just never works. The moment you start matching "fuck", people just write "fuсk" instead, and you're back to square one.

Which is precisely what I went and done above now, mind.

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch there are lots of flies in the bible: Plague of flies

Mitch

14:16

@MattE.Эллен What?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch you said they weren't mentioned

Mitch

But thanks for reminding me. That goddam fly just popped up and I have to go kill it again.

@MattE.Эллен You would trust a fly over me?

tchrist

@MattE.Эллен I hate those ones that drill into your skin to lay ova there that turn into larvae that wriggle and jiggle and tickle inside you. Nastest of all plagues.

Mitch

OK. I get that.

Matt E. Эллен

@tchrist those are the worst.

Mitch

14:18

@tchrist Not the plague of flying face-eating badgers?

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch flies are too dumb to lie

Mitch

I'd really hate that plague more

tchrist

@Mitch only when rabid

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен I graciously accept your compliment

Matt E. Эллен

I saw one repeatedly fly into the same spot on the window, then land on the window, where it had been hitting its head, then after a brief rest, resume trying to break the window.

Mitch

14:19

@tchrist nice touch. all that slobber would really make things that much more intolerable.

@MattE.Эллен That's called fly-tenacity

or flyacity as Reg's mom used to say

She's funny like that

@tchrist This ain't no seder. Which plague is worse?

Lice is a different plague than flies? I'd call that double dipping.

Matt E. Эллен

lice can't fly! why kind of hellscape dystopia are you from?????

Feeds

0

Q: is "predatory capitalism" a correct word for turbo capitalism?

Jean Ziegler invented the German word Raubtierkapitalismus for huge companies without ethics and morality. For example Amazon, Google and Facebook. What are similar words in English?

single-word-requests synonyms

tchrist

14:50

@Mitch Lice are a different plague. Lies are, too.

And rooks.

Mitch

15:06

I think God was pretty realistic when he came up with these plagues. All very plausible but very uncomfortable.

Except for fire and hail both at the same time. That's just not realistic

And darkness? kinda lame. Inconvenient yes, but still lame.

Feeds

0

Q: A secular version of fate/destiny?

The Wikipedia page for destiny states: Destiny, sometimes referred to as fate (from Latin fatum – destiny), is a predetermined course of events. It may be conceived as a predetermined future, whether in general or of an individual. Both destiny and fate are usually used in a more religious ...

single-word-requests phrase-requests idiom-requests expression-requests proverb-requests

Mitch

Maybe he was running out of ideas, just phoning it in. "Oh yeah, and public trans will go on strike, but just for the morning commute"

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch was the darkness before or after the fire? because if after, I mean, that's not even a plague

tchrist

15:35

@Mitch So you're saying that this was an Act of God a few days ago here when South Park was saved from the raging wildfire by an attack of a killer tornado sent to save Kenny? weather.com/news/weather/video/…

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен Or if the fire was during the darkness, that seems just like a good idea.

@tchrist Sure, whatever. I may be saying that, but I'm not saying I'm saying that.

Færd

16:16

I'm looking for adjective nouns that could be used with or without the addition of "(e)d" that makes them look like a participle.

The best example I've come up with is middle-age(d):

> 1. a middle-aged man
2. a middle-age man
3. during my middle-age years

(Although 2 rings abnormal, so not a good example)

Can you think of other, better examples?

Mitch

Argh.

People who don't get it.

It's like stubbing your toe.

You do everything to avoid it (having people understand) but door swung just a tiny bit in one direction and you aren't wearing shoes and walking to fast and AUGH my little pinkie toe! ARGH!

It's like they insist on not understanding.

OW.

I tried it again and I stubbed my toe again.

Matt E. Эллен

@Færd glass. as in "I have a glass vase"

Mitch

That metaphor is a bit lame.

Matt E. Эллен

milk bottle

Mitch

but because I stubbed my toe again, SO AM I!

Matt E. Эллен

16:29

giraffe enclosure

@Mitch noooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

table cloth

table mat

table leg

Mitch

chaise longue

tea cakes

or is it tea and cake?

Matt E. Эллен

mmmm tea cakes

Mitch

tea cakes with tea?

Matt E. Эллен

both? both

Mitch

both

what's in a tea cake?

Matt E. Эллен

16:31

I think it's like a hot-cross bun without the cross

Mitch

are they like skowenes

whoa dude, that's pretty vampire stuff. are there really crosses on those buns? I've only ever heard the song

Matt E. Эллен

the song?

Mitch

um...

yeah the song

Matt E. Эллен

there's a hotcrossbun song?

Mitch

Hot Cross Buns | Nursery Rhymes | Super Simple Songs

►

fixed that for myself

Matt E. Эллен

16:33

@Mitch Well, what is it? one a penny or two a penny?

Mitch

the first one was awful. like they had heard of this human thing called 'music' and thought they'd try it. like, throw in these things called notes and see what happens.

Matt E. Эллен

lol

Færd

@MattE.Эллен Thanks. But glassed vase is not really possible.

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен the bigger ones are 2 a penny. Wait... that can't be right

Matt E. Эллен

@Færd ah, I didn't understand what you want

Færd

16:35

I should've said and in place of or.

Worst occasion to confuse the two. Sorry.

Matt E. Эллен

no worries! that's English for you

Mitch

@Færd or sometimes does mean and. No kidding. the OED has it as one of its entries

but you really don't say 'middle-age man'. that sounds weird.

Færd

Yeah or could be confusing sometimes.

Mitch

so you want words that could be 'X-ed Noun', but also could be 'X Noun'?

Færd

@Mitch so any other examples that really work?

@Mitch yup

Mitch

16:38

thinking

Færd

> lattice(d) chair

?

Mitch

It doesn't sound crazy, but I'm just trying to think of some verbs first, then -ed them, then take off the -ed and see if that works.

@Færd maybe not so great, but that's in the right direction. the noun can be verbed

or the other way

Færd

Hmm.

Mitch

The blackened fish: the black fish... not really

Færd

You're cheating there.

Mitch

16:40

The patient had yellowy eyes/yellow eyes

@Færd I'm trying to make progress

Færd

Cheating is regress.

Okay, back on laptop.

Cerberus

@RegDwigнt Oh, huh. Mislooked.

Mitch

impugn abjure suborn

Robusto

Excuse me, which one is correct? I have dog or I have cat? Thank you!

Mitch

@Robusto Did you see the haboob?

Robusto

16:50

What kind of boob is a haboob?

Mitch

Was that anywhere near you all?

Færd

@Robusto Depends on the species one belongs to.

Robusto

Dinna see no boobs, ha or otherwise.

Mitch

Ha

Robusto

@Mitch Shopped /nod

Færd

16:52

@Mitch Thanks Mitch for the try. I'm thinking that may not be possible.

Mitch

@Robusto It was probably a state or two away, but on the offhand chance I asked

Robusto

@Mitch Why are dust storms called haboobs in Arizona?

I would not live in a red state. Dust storms are not the worst thing they have. How about their shit storms?

Mitch

Isn't the reason because that's the word in Arabic for those billowly low storm cloud thingies?

And 'thingy' isn't specific enough?

Robusto

What, they look like boobs?

I prefer firmer boobs, for the record.

Mitch

noted in the register

Robusto

16:57

What's in a haboob? Poop and Valley Fever spores See, I was right. A veritable shit storm.

Mitch

ew

Robusto

This is why I don't ride in high winds (among other reasons). Whenever the desert becomes windborne, that grit that gets in your teeth is not all that healthy. Fortunately you can ride up to ~25 mph wind speed before that happens.

Mitch

I'm waiting for an ELU question "Why does 'When the shit hits the fan' mean bad things are happening?"

Robusto

How about "When the fit hits the shan"?

Mitch

That doesn't make as much sense

@Robusto Protip: go with the wind

Also, only ride downhill

Also, only eat, never poop.

Robusto

17:01

@Mitch Then why did David Mamet write that line of dialogue for William H. Macy to say in Wag the Dog?

Mitch

@Robusto As people are constantly telling me not to say, because he's retarded

Robusto

Roy Rogers & Sons Of The Pioneers - Tumbling Tumbleweeds

►

@Mitch David Mamet is retarded?

Mitch

I just listened to that and I didn't hear poop or dogs wagging or nothing

@Robusto Or that other guy. Your choice

Or the whole movie

Robusto

Jul 4 at 20:14, by Robusto

Fuck it, Dude, let's go bowling.

Mitch

Oh. Bowling is for retards

That's pretty obvious

One moment...

Robusto

17:04

Dude ...

Mitch

Got it. Flies have a lot of protein in them

also cholesterol

but if you're eating flies, cholesterol is probably not high on the concern list

Lotsa fiber too

Helps with regularity

whatever that means

Robusto

Jul 4 at 20:47, by Robusto

There are too many hungry minds to feed.

Mitch

Makes you more likely to get to appointments on time?

probably

Robusto

Forgot the B side:

Sons Of The Pioneers - Cool Clear Water - Vintage 78rpm Gramophone

►

Mitch

19:07

I think it'd be better for everyone if Croatia won

Robusto

19:35

Wut? You don't wanna see France crush England in the final? Tsk, tsk.

RegDwigнt

Is it France v England in the final??? Fuck me, what has this world come to.

@Robusto oh hey, Roy Rogers. I wrote a song about him once. It kinda sucked. But hey, I needed some filler for an album that was otherwise spectacular.

Elton John - Roy Rogers (Yellow Brick Road 15 of 21)

►

Robusto

"... sniffin' for tidbits like you on the ground ..."

RegDwigнt

@Robusto Yeah. If you put a friggin Goodbye Yellow Brick Road on an album and it's not even in the top 3 songs on it, that's saying something.

These were the days, my friend. We thought they'd never end.

Robusto

We'd sing and laugh forever and a day.

RegDwigнt

That's the stupidest text McCartney has ever written.

The Russian original is so much mo bettah.

Actually wait, he didn't write the text. He only produced the song.

And it lost to his own Hey Jude.

LOLOL.

Mitch

19:52

@Cerberus It's the large artery that comes of of your heart. You only have one of them so it's a orta.

RegDwigнt

It's an orta, pineapple.

Mitch

Doctors spend their time studying keeping you alive, so give them some slack with the vocabulary

and the grammtic

RegDwigнt

Mitch

@RegDwigнt if I'm an anana, then you're an anan ass.

I just saw the map in france for where who says /a na na/ vs /a na nas/

RegDwigнt

What were you doing in France.

Mitch

19:54

and only a few dumb southerners say /a na nas/

so ashamed

@RegDwigнt I'm not going to answer that.

BUt I did see the answer on line

maybe the ma was in France. maybe not. no judgement

Gigili

@Mitch Do not panic, pineapple can be useful in the treatment of sports injuries.

Mitch

@Gigili smash the (about to be) victim's head with it, all pain gone.

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