English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

JSBᾶngs

17:00

"Yet gentle, non-caustic Lysol will not harm delicate tissues."

KitFox

At least appealing daintiness is preserved.

JSBᾶngs

so i don't see what Kit's problem is

user19161

Wait are we thinking of the same lysol?

KitFox

And there is no greasy aftereffect.

aedia λ

@JSBᾶngs It's scientifically correct so it must be true

KitFox

17:01

tries to imagine what you would stick in your cootch to clean it that would leave a greasy aftereffect

Carlo_R.

I'm going to dinner.

KitFox

Maybe I could send mail to Lehn & Fink, the gynecological authorities.

Carlo_R.

user19161

@Carlo_R Carbonara!

KitFox

@Carlo_R That probably would leave a greasy aftereffect.

Carlo_R.

17:02

Yes: "Spaghetti alla carbonara"

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Haha.

KitFox

I can't imagine that it would be a useful cleaning tool though.

JSBᾶngs

thanks @Kit. now you've put me off my lunch.

Rob

@KitFox If aftereffect is one word why isn't "after affect?"

RegDwight Ѭſ道

This is getting too complicated for me.

Commute. Laters.

aedia λ

17:04

Cya!

KitFox

@Rob It is "after affecting."

Carlo_R.

Bye!

KitFox

@RegDwightѬſ道 Bye!

@Carlo_R Bye!

@JSBᾶngs Sorry. Try seafood.

giggles

user19161

The carbonara picture has made me crave for carbonara.

Rob

@KitFox But not "afteraffecting?"

user19161

17:06

@Rob Just because.

KitFox

@Rob No. It's easy. Affect and effect are in pairs. When something affects something else, it's an effect. When something effects something, it's an affect.

Rob

@WillHunting why, why, why...

user19161

@KitFox Deep.

KitFox

You are not likely to ever use "affect" as a noun or "effect" as a verb.

So if it's a verb, it's probably "affect" and if it's a noun, it's probably "effect."

Rob

Then please explain "aftereffect?"

KitFox

17:08

Like special effect.

Rob

one word

KitFox

Or afterimage.

user19161

@Rob It's simply the effects after something happens.

KitFox

What he said.^

It's a noun.

user19161

Like aftermath.

KitFox

17:08

afterglow.

afterburner.

afternoon.

user19161

Afterlife

KitFox

gets dizzy, sits down

Rob

cool thanks guys

hands Kit a glass of water

KitFox

Danke danke.

Rob

I didn't mean to get you dizzy.

KitFox

17:13

Too much brainwork, not enough coffee.

user19161

... makes kit dizzy

Rob

makes Johnny a dull boy...

;-)

user19161

@rob I see you changed into another skull.

Rob

Skull
patrol
for
life

user19161

@Rob You like to waste vertical space huh.

Rob

17:18

or at least when I can change my name back....

user19161

@Rob What are you going to change it to?

Rob

back

user19161

By the way what happened to the sexuality site?

user19161

It seems to have been shut down.

Rob

What could you talk about on a sexuality site that wouldn't get flagged as offensive?

KitFox

17:25

Just about everything.

user19161

I knew too many things to even join the site.

KitFox

Really? looks skeptical

user19161

Hehe.

Rob

@KitFox There is a site for people with that look ;-)

KitFox

I'm a member.

Rob

17:28

What a surprise(!)

(!)= punctuation for sarcasm

@KitFox have you seen or used this punctuation before?

KitFox

Never.

Rob

I guess (!!) would be overly sarcastic.

bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/radio/specials/…

In writing and often subtitles, especially in British English, a (!) symbol (an exclamation point within parentheses) implies that a character has made an obviously sarcastic comment e.g.: "Ooh, a sarcasm detector. That's a really useful invention(!)"

Gigili

I wish I could undertake the expenditure of your trip, unfortunately I'm short of cash this month. Makes sense?

KitFox

Undertake and expenditure don't go together.

You could undertake the trip.

I think.

Gigili

What's the appropriate verb to use with expenditure?

aedia λ

17:40

It just sounds excessively formal to me, but ok.

KitFox

Oh, yes, you can undertake an expenditure, I guess.

user19161

@Gigili I wish I could pay for your trip but I am short of cash this month.

user19161

In any case, that comma is misplaced.

Gigili

Great, thank you @KitFox and @aedia.

KitFox

@WillHunting No, it's not.

Gigili

17:42

@WillHunting Umm, no? Why?

KitFox

But there probably should be a conjunction.

Gigili

Like but?

KitFox

"I wish I could undertake the expenditure of your trip, but unfortunately I'm short of cash this month."

Or use a semicolon.

Gigili

Uhum.

KitFox

More coffee!

Rob

17:43

me to

aedia λ

Wait for meeee!

user19161

@Rob too

Rob

@WillHunting Oops ...

KitFox

Sorry, @aedia, it's decaf.

Rob

I have a preference for short words is that bad?

user19161

17:47

@Rob I think it's good. I only have half the vocab of most people in this room.

KitFox

What was your rating, @Will?

user19161

@KitFox Well, I would say taking the average maybe around 16,000?

KitFox

Is that all? Really?

user19161

Yes, I know and use very few words.

user19161

Also, my honours project was only 20 pages long while the rest wrote 100 pages.

user19161

17:51

I think I stopped reading fiction in middle school.

Rob

is that where you pick up a lot of vocab

user19161

Well, I would say if I were to increase my vocab I would do it by reading fiction.

user19161

Maybe certain kinds of non-fiction can help you learn many words too, but I don't know.

Rob

i knew a guy who read the dictionary

user19161

Now and then I flip through the D too.

Rob

17:55

OED?

user19161

Nah! Do you think I am crazy enough to get the OED?

KitFox

"Reading" the OED is pointless and stupid. Your friend was probably lying in an effort to look intelligent.

user19161

It is 20 volumes in book form.

KitFox

Reading any dictionary is just a dumb idea.

user19161

Anyway I currently use the OALD as my favourite D.

Rob

17:57

By "reading" he meant memorizing definitions

is that a dumb idea?

user19161

@Rob Well, depends on why he is doing it.

KitFox

@Rob Yes.

user19161

But the Americans should just get a copy of MW Collegiate. It's cheap and good.

Rob

Increase clarification of meaning was his goal.

user19161

@Rob I guess memorizing stuff here and there could increase one's proficiency to a certain extent. But there are better things to do with one's time.

user19161

18:04

@mahnax Boo!

Mahnax

@WillHunting Ohai.

user19161

By the way, MW has an advanced learner's dictionary too. There is only one edition so far. It seems not many know about it.

Rob

@WillHunting Thank you, I'll have a look at it.

user19161

@Rob The websites are m-w.com (MW Collegiate) and learnersdictionary.com (MW ALD)

user19161

But it's nice to get the paperback too.

Mahnax

18:09

@WillHunting I've got one, but just the regular M-W.

user19161

@Mahnax Yeah, I remember that. Nowadays I use oald8.com (OALD) and oxforddictionaries.com (ODE).

Mahnax

@WillHunting Oh, never heard of the latter.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

2

Q: One and a half minute/minutes

When talking about "one and a half" of any object, do we use the subsequent noun in plural or just singular? I'm aware that "A minute and a half" is also correct but I'm looking for the specific "One and a half"-construction here. So for example, which of the below phrases is correct? You'r...

Why oh why is this still open?

Rob

@WillHunting Do you prefer the Oxford or Cambridge ALD and why?

user19161

@Rob Honestly, they are about the same. But note that the former is in its 8th edition and the latter only the 3rd.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

18:13

Okay now I know why it's still open. I can't find that answer of Kosmonaut's, either.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Hahaha. After thinking about it, I conclude that jsbangs was not joking. QED.

KitFox

@RegDwightѬſ道 That's the one I was looking for too.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

29

A: Plurality of numbers between -1 and 1

You could make the argument that English does not have singular and plural markers per se, but rather singular and "non-singular". (I'm not necessarily advocating this view, just throwing it out there.) The evidence would be that the singular form is used to refer to one of something, while the...

Rob

@WillHunting Have you read the Cambridge grammar guide?

user19161

@Rob Exact title is?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

18:15

20

A: Should we use plural or singular for a fraction of a mile?

0.25 miles. The rule I follow is that you use the singular only when talking of exactly one mile. You'd also say half a mile, quarter of a mile, etc., but in these cases it's as though you're still talking of "a mile" first, and then taking half or quarter of it. Let me say something further, w...

Rob

@WillHunting cambridge.org/uk/linguistics/cgel

user19161

@Rob This is what Cerb and Vitaly would recommend I think. But I think it's terribly huge and expensive, so I settled for less. I got a copy of the Cambridge Grammar of English instead but have not really studied it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

So Lysol can "insure feminine daintiness alone". Shouldn't that be "ensure"?

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Finally closed!

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Maybe they pay insurance for it too!

user19161

18:24

Yay, now John Lawler also has 10k!

KitFox

Oh thank Freya I am using versioning tools!

user19161

@KitFox I thought you would thank Frigga.

KitFox

Same goddess.

user19161

One goddess, many names.

KitFox

Many spellings, one name.

user19161

18:29

One God, three manifestations.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

My new favourite quote: "If you've got a religious belief that withers in the face of observations of the natural world, you ought to rethink your beliefs — rethinking the world isn't an option." -- P.Z. Meyers

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Anyway, where did you see that?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

on PZ Meyers's website

KitFox

►

Still in my head.

Rob

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Why isn't "rethinking the world" an option?

Mahnax

18:34

chickenonaraft.com

KitFox

standing on my own...but now I'm not alone AVENGERS ASSEMBLE!

bangs head to get demons out

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/04/…

KitFox

@Mahnax NOU!

Mahnax

@KitFox YEA!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Rob Because the world doesn't care what you think about it. Just because you believe something doesn't make it true. And if you observe a fact about the world that contradicts your belief, you should re-evaluate that belief.

user19161

18:36

@Mahnax Interesting!

KitFox

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Suck on my Bayesicle, unbelievers!

Mahnax

@WillHunting Yes!

user19161

@Mahnax You can use it to hypnotise people!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mahnax They really really should animate that chicken

KitFox

hums hi-yo chicken on a raft

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:38

chicken on a raft on a monday morning, oh what a terrible sight to see

user19161

I can't believe I am still listening to the stupid chicken.

Mahnax

giggles

Rob

@MrShinyandNew安宇 It is true that "the world doesn't care what you think about it," but you do have to think about the world to make those beliefs; don't you?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Rob You're misinterpreting what Meyers said.

user19161

@KitFox Never watched that show.

KitFox

18:40

@WillHunting I am not surprised. You are more of a Spiderman fan, eh?

user19161

@KitFox Yes!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

eg: You believe, because you were taught, that inside every tree is a solid core of crystal put there by your god. Then, years later, you cut down a tree and find that there is no crystal. You cut down tree after tree and never find it. You should re-evaluate your belief in tree-crystals, not declare that the crystals ARE there after all.

> You have been on a raft with a chicken for 5 minutes 47 seconds.

Mahnax

The COAR song is 3:23 in length, then it repeats.

KitFox

> You have been on a raft with a chicken for 4 minutes 8 seconds.

Mahnax

I'm at about four minutes too.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:42

> She says she won't, but I think she will

Mahnax

Reg got to just under two hours.

user19161

I am off the raft.

Mahnax

JSB went over 2 hours.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

That's a belief about the world. If she never does, it's foolish to conclude that she would.

KitFox

I have spent all day trying to figure out why I can't get the other site to work the same way as the other two.

user19161

18:42

@Mahnax I did not know they are crazy too!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox this is the site that was created by restoring a backup?

Mahnax

@WillHunting Heh.

Rob

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Ah... my mistake these are " religious beliefs."

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Rob well, actually, any beliefs.

KitFox

I have re-evaluated my belief that it will work, and instead deleted the m-fing thing.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

18:43

The point is: when you believe something is true, and you find evidence to the contrary, you need to reconsider your belief.

Rob

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Not according to the quotation.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Rob But it holds for any kind of belief.

user19161

@KitFox Maybe put it aside and come back to it later.

KitFox

@WillHunting Too late.

> You have been on a raft with a chicken for 7 minutes 7 seconds.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Rob: restated: you don't get to decree that the world conforms to your beliefs. You should instead form your beliefs to match the world.

Rob

18:45

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Could you tell me your definition of belief please?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

1. An acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.
2. Something one accepts as true or real; a firmly held opinion or conviction.

Mahnax

> You have been on a raft with a chicken for 7 minutes 54 seconds.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> You have been on a raft with a chicken for 10 minutes 12 seconds.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Oh right! The chicken! I'll jump right in.

Mahnax

I had to close my first one after 3 minutes for a YT vid.

user19161

18:47

@RegDwightѬſ道 The elephant will sink the raft.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Mahnax I don't understand. Is your hardware not powerful enough?

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Conflicting sound.

Mahnax

@RegDwightѬſ道 No, I can't turn off the sound.

user19161

So now we have a fox, an elephant and a python on the raft with a chicken!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

3 hours ago, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

Dear Will, seriously. Start getting jokes. Please. PLEASE.

@Mahnax never stopped a real man before.

user19161

18:49

@RegDwightѬſ道 OMG!

Mahnax

@RegDwightѬſ道 But I'm in class, and people don't want to hear a swearing Australian, ping noises, and a COAR at once.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Mahnax well that means the people are super uncool.

If you conform, that makes you super uncool, too.

And you don't want to be super uncool except perhaps in winter.

user19161

I wonder what will happen to all the animals on the raft...

Mahnax

@RegDwightѬſ道 Actually, the problem is mostly the teacher.

@WillHunting I have to jump off in 12 minutes for English class.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Good good. The first step to solving a problem is localizing it.

user19161

18:52

@Mahnax Then you should not be here but pay attention in class instead.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting Don't forget an opinionated Lego minifig

Mahnax

Hmm, he will be occupied if we give him a 90s Javascript manual.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> You have been on a raft with a chicken for 16 minutes 56 seconds.

KitFox

> You have been on a raft with a chicken for 15 minutes 23 seconds.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

My raft is ahead of the other rafts

user19161

18:53

@RegDwightѬſ道 You have been infected with reduplication!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

My chicken will cross the stream first.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

The stream is a lie.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting Did he duplicate it again?

KitFox

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Don't cross the streams!

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 If I answer this, next thing Reg will tell me is "Start getting jokes".

Mahnax

18:54

@WillHunting Good good.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox I'm only crossing one stream.

It's like one-hand clapping.

JSBᾶngs

you people. my bayesian belief-updating system leads me to believe that i DON'T WANT TO SPEND ANY MORE TIME ON THIS GODDAMN RAFT

user19161

@JSBᾶngs /ragequit

KitFox

►

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JSBᾶngs as if we needed further proof that Bayes is of the Devil.

KitFox

18:56

@RegDwightѬſ道 How dare you speak that way about a preacher?

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 I am now starting to think if "devil" should be capitalised.

KitFox

@WillHunting "devil" is not, but "the Devil" is.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@KitFox Swiftly. I dare speak that way about a preacher swiftly.

KitFox

Also, New Jersey Devils.

And Dirt Devils, but not dirt devils.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox Yeah, exactly. But I'm only crossing one stream, not streams.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

18:57

@WillHunting believe me, JSB's Devil must be capitalized.

KitFox

@RegDwightѬſ道 Is it HUGE?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It's like you know almost seven huges.

KitFox

You had me at "It's like, you know..."

JSBᾶngs

@RegDwightѬſ道 like 9000 huges

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@KitFox I'm failing. Usually it doesn't take that long.

user19161

18:58

I am not even sure what jsb's devil means.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9000 hughs? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Hugh

KitFox

@RegDwightѬſ道 That's not a failure. It's good to vary your technique. Keeps things spicy.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JSBᾶngs But is it also like 9000 usages?

@KitFox Do note how huges is almost an anagram of usages.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

> You have been on a raft with a chicken for 23 minutes 16 seconds.

KitFox

> You have been on a raft with a chicken for 21 minutes 52 seconds.

user19161

18:59

@RegDwightѬſ道 For sufficiently loose definitions of "almost".

KitFox

I think I'm catching up.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…