English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

8:00 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 "Yay" because I got it or is that an expression of Schadenfreude at my Liferay predicament?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto because you got it. I don't know liferay so I can't comment on it.

Robusto

Jan 26 at 20:48, by Robusto

In fact, I think Liferay needs to be renamed. It should be called Deathray.

KitFox

How will you distinguish it from the renamed Peace Ray then?

Robusto

Mar 5 '11 at 14:24, by Robusto

@Cerberus — I've had to integrate things through Drupal before and I did not like it. Where I work now we use Liferay, another CMS, and I hate that one too. I hate all CMS solutions.

@KitFox I'm not worried about that. It will sort itself out.

Cerberus

Yikes, the BBC's University Challenge is impossible!

Balliol against Homerton (Cambridge).

bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b01cbqk5/…

If you have access to the BBC (if not, it is a good idea to install Tunnelbear anyway).

Extremely difficult question, and very, very fast.

Most questions are not so much about understanding things as about knowing little factoids, but still, very impressive.

MetaEd

8:11 PM

Glad I asked.

Cerberus

@MetaEd Oh, and the capital of Congo-Brazzavile is Brazzavile.

You didn't ask, but it seemed like you wanted to know.

I mean, who wouldn't?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

what is tunnelbear

MetaEd

@Cerberus Brazzaville?

Cerberus

Ehh yes.

Double typo.

MetaEd

The list got too long for chat.

Cerberus

8:16 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Free service that lets you VPN to England or America. 1.5 GB / month for free, unlimited for € 5.

MetaEd

So since the list is too long to add to:

No no .* in this chat in this chat.

Damn.

Gödel, take me away!

KitFox

Yes, a hot bath. That's a great idea.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Hm, their website is low on explanations of how they work

KitFox

Oh wait. My husband is hosting poker night tonight.

Cerberus

@MetaEd Oh dear, I have just non-typed an indefinite number of empty lines!

MetaEd

8:19 PM

@KitFox I seem to be bathing in mathematical symbolism. Oh dear. I've dropped the soap.

KitFox

awkward silence

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Hmm what would you like to know?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus how does it work

and, as a website admin, how do I block it

Cerberus

@KitFox Take the bath anyway!

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Block it?

They just VPN you to some servers in England, I presume?

KitFox

@Cerberus Well, there's just the one bathroom, unless you count the toilet at the bottom of the stairs.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:22 PM

@Cerberus yeah. As in, if someone is using tunnelbear, I might need to block them.

Cerberus

@KitFox Can't you count that and let them all go there?

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Why?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus fraud control

or compliance with certain laws

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Wow. I am impressed.

Cerberus

You would need to block any proxy or Tor participant in the world.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

like, in the US, you're not allowed to do business with individuals in certain countries

Cerberus

8:22 PM

Bah, laws.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

But first things first. nice gang bang there, @Robusto.

Cerberus

You don't live in the US.

Robusto

@RegDwightѬſ道 Que?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

That question. Deleted within one hour without mod assistance.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus doesn't mean I don't need to comply with US laws. or other, similar laws.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

8:23 PM

I guess my job here is done and I can move to greener pastures.

Cerberus

What you do with those laws is just ignore them.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus not my call

Robusto

@RegDwightѬſ道 No one ever moves to redder or purpler pastures. You could start a trend.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Secondly. I didn't realize there were that many noes in this chat.

So let me just summarize it all as follows.

No chat in this chat.

Cerberus

Jesus, just let it go. I am just recommending a great service to watch a great television programme.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

8:26 PM

Lastly, dupe:

0

Q: Present Perfect in British English

Why Present perfect is used a lot in BE while simple past and simple present a lot more compared to BE in AE? Are there reasons that can draw the line between right and wrong?

@Cerberus You are 2012 years too late to the "Jesus, just let it go" party.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I'm not saying you shouldn't use it. I'm saying that there is not much information about how it works.

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 Damn him! Now we're stuck with Christianity.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 No, there is not.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus you offered to tell me stuff about it, so I asked. that's all.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

0

Q: Is it correct to use Simple Past in place of Present Perfect?

Possible Duplicate: When Will “Present Perfect vs Past Tense” Cases Be Affected By Culture? When do I use present perfect tense instead of the simple past? On a movie this boy sees his father with a bruise on his face and asks him: What happened to you? How is this ...

word-choice grammaticality past-tense present-perfect-tense

10

Q: When Will "Present Perfect vs Past Tense" Cases Be Affected By Culture?

Regarding actions taken in the past, besides the differences those two tenses have semantically, my teacher shared that it could be a British vs American English case. When talking about past action, British prefers present perfect because they take into account that the effect from their past ...

american-english british-english past-tense contractions present-perfect-tense

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

and as far as blocking Tor and proxies go, yeah, I would if I could.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

8:28 PM

1

Q: When do I use present perfect tense instead of the simple past?

I've finished my work. I finished my work. When do I use one or the other?

verbs tense past-tense present-perfect-tense

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Why besides these laws?

Robusto

Off to meeting. Laaaaaaater.

Cerberus

Bye!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus do I need another reason besides "it's the law"?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

0

A: What does "dirty" mean in relation to a drink?

it means that the olive for garnish is stuffed with a blue cheese.

Hook, line, and sinker.

Cerberus

8:31 PM

Your repetition suggested that you had other reasons.

simchona

stackoverflow.com/questions/9299350/…

KitFox

@RegDwightѬſ道 Sink, line, and hooker.

God, that makes me feel ill.

simchona

Tell me I wasn't robbed.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@KitFox In fact, forget the sink and the line.

KitFox

Think brine, and hooker.

Cerberus

8:32 PM

►

Oooh I knew this one!

MetaEd

@simchona You wuz robbed.

Cerberus

But, again, it is a fact that you just know or don't know.

Alenanno

@Robusto It is, but writing "I'm protesting against...!" and actually protesting are different levels. Plus, we're talking about the philosophoraptor :P

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus Tissuen? Is that how they pronounce Tizian?

KitFox

@simchona You weren't robbed.

Cerberus

8:36 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 Oh, dear. I haven't heard that one yet, but you know the English. Their pronunciation of foreign words sucks.

Oh, it's girl.

She is American.

KitFox

Sounded like she said "Titian" to me.

simchona

@kit I wasn't?

KitFox

@simchona I don't know. You said to tell you you weren't. So I did.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@KitFox well the name would be Tiziano Vecellio.

Cerberus

In any case there was an s sound.

No /ts/.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

8:41 PM

Tiziano

Artista innovatore e poliedrico, maestro con Giorgione del colore tonale, Tiziano Vecellio fu uno dei pochi pittori italiani titolari di una vera e propria azienda, accorto imprenditore della bottega oltre che della sua personale produzione, direttamente a contatto con i potenti dell'epoca, suoi maggiori committenti. Il rinnovamento della pittura di cui fu autore, si basò, in alternativa al michelangiolesco «primato del disegno», sull'uso personalissimo del colore. Biografia Origini Sicuramente Tiziano nacque a Pieve di Cadore, cittadina dolomitica ai confini dei domini della Sereni...

Cerberus

And stress was on the first sillyble.

KitFox

Titian

Tiziano Vecelli or Tiziano Vecellio (c. 1488/1490 – 27 August 1576 known in English as Titian () was an Italian painter, the most important member of the 16th-century Venetian school. He was born in Pieve di Cadore, near Belluno (in Veneto), in the Republic of Venice. During his lifetime he was often called da Cadore, taken from the place of his birth. Recognized by his contemporaries as "The Sun Amidst Small Stars" (recalling the famous final line of Dante's Paradiso), Titian was one of the most versatile of Italian painters, equally adept with portraits, landscape backgrounds,...

> known in English as Titian (play /ˈtɪʃən/)

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Yes.

So not only do you mispronounce, you actually misspell.

That's an Achievement in the Field of Excellence.

Alenanno

:O

Titian?

Why changing the name?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Cuz funneh.

Alenanno

8:44 PM

:|

KitFox

nbc.com/assets/video/widget/widget.html?vid=278703

Oops.

Cerberus

I think it might be Titiaan in Dutch too.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus another reason for blocking proxies is that the vast majority of proxy use that I see on the site where I work is fraud. So much fraud that blocking all anon proxies, tor, anon VPNs, etc, would cost almost zero in lost sales and frustrated customers but save a ton in fraud control.

Cerberus

But ti is pronounces tsi.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Fraud? What kind? And how can you tell whether someone is Torring?

Alenanno

Why? We don't say Guglielmo, we say William (Shakespeare). We don't say Teodoro, we say Theodore (Roosevelt), why changing it?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

8:46 PM

Haha, poor Alenanno, this will haunt him for weeks now.

Alenanno

I can't imagine how it would be for "Virgilio".

Cerberus

Wow, their description of Kant's philosophy really sucks!

No wonder so many of their questions are so hard.

@Alenanno Oh, we change everything too!

Like Rome, Parijs, Londen...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Credit-card fraud, mostly. Also spam. And various scams like 401 scams or russian bride scams.

Alenanno

@RegDwightѬſ道 There is one occurrence where I studied someone whose name was italianized, but well, it was weird too.

@Cerberus City names are ok. Not people's names! :D

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 But how do those things affect you? I get the latter three all the time, but what does it matter?

@Alenanno Do you really use Willem, William, Guillaume, etc.?

We use the Dutch first names if available.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:50 PM

@Cerberus They affect the users of my site. so I want to block it.

Alenanno

@Cerberus I think the only equivalent in Italian would be Guglielmo... Also "Wilhelm Tell" = Guglielmo Tell

Cerberus

So James = Jacobus, Henry = Hendrik, Louis = Lodewijk, Charles = Karel. That is the convention in history books, at least.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Meh, if Google and Microsoft can't block it, how can you?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Credit-card fraud: this is when people with stolen cards come to my site to use the site as an oracle for testing cards, by paying for something they don't need, in order to ascertain that the card is working. This harms us by resulting in chargebacks. If you get too many chargebacks, you get fined by Visa or MC, even though we did nothing to allow or encourage the fraud.

Cerberus

It's not a problem.

Alenanno

@Cerberus We did translate "Henry VIII" to Enrico VIII actually, now that I think of it. Maybe I just feel different about artists. :D

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

8:52 PM

@Cerberus It IS a problem.

JSBᾶngs

in English, it drives me nuts that we have conventions of referring to a random subset of historical figures by their French or Italian names, regardless of what they actually speak

for example, Charlemagne should really just be Charles the Great or Carolus Magnus or (my favorite) Big Chuck

Alenanno

Big Chuck? :D

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Oh, that sucks. Is there nothing you could do about that? Like switching to Paypal? Isn't every internet shop affected by that?

@JSBᾶngs Yeah! In Dutch, it's Karel de Grote.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Spam is a problem because users come to the site and expect to use it productively but instead get messages that are garbage. Since they pay for access they might even erroneously conclude that WE are generating the spam to trick them into paying.

@Cerberus paypal has the same problem. And yes, other shops ARE affected and I don't know how they deal with it.

KitFox

I liked Charlemagne, but Hammer Chuck was more fun.

Alenanno

8:54 PM

@Cerberus @JSBngs We say Carlo Magno

Cerberus

Hmm but Magno isn't an Italian word, is it?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Scams are a problem too, because if too many customers come to our site and get scammed by other users then we develop a bad reputation because our site is full of scams. Thus, we work hard to keep scammers off the site.

Alenanno

@Cerberus It is! It's the evolution of magnus, as far as I know...

let me check

JSBᾶngs

@Cerb @Alenanno good for your respective languages. who joins me in the campaign to rename Charlemagne as Big Chuck?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

AND, as unfair as it may seem, historically 90% of scams, spam, and CC crime comes from foreign IPs. Maybe 99%. So we block entire countries.

Alenanno

8:55 PM

@Cerberus Dal lat. măgnu(m)

@JSBᾶngs Ahah sure, but why "Chuck"?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JSBᾶngs I would except who the hell mentions Charlemagne at all these days.

Cerberus

You needs lots of moderators, or you should only let people post messages after they have proven themselves worthy.

@JSBᾶngs Ehh I'll have to think about that one.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus people pay for access, why should they have to work for us as mods?

JSBᾶngs

@Alenanno Chuck is a standard shortening of Charles

Cerberus

@Alenanno Yes, of magnus.

KitFox

8:56 PM

Wasn't it Charlemagne who crowned himself emperor on Christmas 800?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Prince Chuck. Yeah, works.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I was just suggesting how other websites deal with this problem.

Alenanno

@JSBᾶngs Look at that... Why do you have weird shortenings in English?

KitFox

Speaking of random historical facts that have lodged themselves in my gray matter.

Cerberus

@KitFox He forced the Pope to do it.

Alenanno

8:57 PM

Robert —> Rob and then/or Bob

Cerberus

I believe.

KitFox

@Alenanno Don't forget Margaret —> Peg. I have never understood that.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Alenanno A great many languages do that, not just English.

Cerberus

A variation on Meg?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

10

Q: Changes in English names of people

Why is Robert called Bob and John called Jack sometimes? What is the history of or reason for this practice in changing the English names of people?

names

JSBᾶngs

8:57 PM

Margaret => Maggie, Peg, Peggy, Mags

Alenanno

@KitFox Ahah nice!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Read my top comment there.

Alenanno

@RegDwightѬſ道 Are you aware of other examples?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Me, I'm AFK regen.

Alenanno

Oh ok

Ah right, I forgot about саша (sasha) :| and шура (shura) is indeed more obscure.

Cerberus

8:59 PM

Ah, yes most of those feature in Russian novels.

I always have trouble remembering which diminutive belongs to whom.

I know Sasha.

KitFox

I had a friend I called Sasha.

I have been known to call our mod Sasha.

Cerberus

He might not like that...

KitFox

I have found it frustrating in my life to have a given name that so many people take to be a diminutive.

Cerberus

Oh!

Interesting.

Alenanno

@KitFox which is...? If you don't mind me asking.

KitFox

9:01 PM

I have a bunch of certificates from school that have my name as "Katherine."

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Yeah... well, making your users into unpaid workers sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.

KitFox

Because they nicely thought it ought to be more formal.

Alenanno

lol

Cerberus

I told people not to pick diminutive names as their children's official names for that very reason.

KitFox

@Alenanno Kit.

Alenanno

9:01 PM

Is Penny a diminutive or a full name?

KitFox

Penelope.

But also a full name.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox That's nothing. I have a MALE friend named Jesse who often gets paperwork addressed to "Jessica".

KitFox

Hahaha.

Alenanno

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Ahahah!

xD

Cerberus

Another thing: it sucks if you are normally using a name (probably because that's how your parents called you) that doesn't have the same initial as your official name.

Alenanno

9:03 PM

Like Robert - Bob? :P

Cerberus

So I heard.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Or if your official name is Chinese and can't even be written with initials and all your english-speaking friends call you "George".

Cerberus

It also sucks if there exists a common variation on our name that sounds the same but is spelled differently (I am a case in point), but it is bearable.

KitFox

There was a girl who came over from China and tried using her "English" name here, but everyone kept calling her by her Chinese name anyway.

JSBᾶngs

@Cerberus i also have this problem

Alenanno

9:04 PM

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I'd know only the first syllable of your name then.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, all Chinese names should be forbidden. But at least people in China will easily understand it.

KitFox

@Cerberus Huh? Why?

Cerberus

@JSBᾶngs Did therapy work wonders for you too?

Alenanno

@KitFox I was wondering the same.

Cerberus

@KitFox Well, assuming it's a normal Chinese name. I don't know how their names work.

KitFox

9:05 PM

The girl I knew was Xiaoyang, and kept asking people to call her "Amy."

Cerberus

Except that family name comes first.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox sounds like "small sheep" :)

KitFox

Come to think of it, she probably hated the way Southerners butchered the pronunciation.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@KitFox It's odd that people insisted on using her Chinese name.

KitFox

@MrShinyandNew安宇 "Little sunshine" or "sunbeam," I think.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:06 PM

@KitFox ah

Alenanno

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Ahah that's right. :P

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

小阳

KitFox

@MrShinyandNew安宇 She didn't look or sound like "Amy."

JSBᾶngs

@KitFox the people i know who tried this got away with it, mostly because they always introduced themselves by their English name

Alenanno

@KitFox Do you happen to know the characters?

JSBᾶngs

9:07 PM

my college roommate was named Kenny, but actually... Xiao Zhu or something?

as you can see i never bothered to actually learn it

Cerberus

Does Jasper has an Asian first name too?

KitFox

1 min ago, by Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

小阳

I think that's probably right.

Alenanno

@KitFox Thanks! :)

KitFox

I don't really remember. It was years ago.

Alenanno

Yeah it is. At least according to the dictionary.

KitFox

9:09 PM

Well, yeah. If I remembered her name correctly.

Alenanno

@KitFox It makes sense. 小 = little, 阳 = positive (electric.), sun, "yang opposed to yin"

KitFox

Anyway, I've got to run. Later!

Alenanno

@KitFox Later! :)

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Alenanno It might make sense but I chose that character to fit Kit's description, not because I knew what the character is supposed to be. It's from 太阳 which means "sun".

Alenanno

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I see...

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

9:15 PM

Anyway, time for me to go.

Alenanno

Me too! :D See y'all.

Robusto

@KitFox I can't find the second character in the normal sources. The first character means "small" obviously, but the second has the radical for "banner" followed by "sun" ...

Unless it's a simplification of 陽, which means "sunshine" ...

In which case 太阳 would literally mean "fat sunshine" (or words to that effect).

Anyway, gotta motor. Out.

user19161

9:59 PM

@Cerberus Yes, it's even in the transcript if you look hard enough. Usually there are two or three characters. The first is the last name and the remaining characters represent the first name. There is no middle name though.

Cerberus

Ah OK.

user19161

@Robusto Well it just means sun to me in Chinese.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

BTW @Rob @Cer @Kit @Vit congratulation for have a level 11 faction. But really we are asombrate with our

Cerberus

Hey! How did you do that?

You pinged me without an arrow!

Witchcraft!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Ehhhh

Cerberus

10:05 PM

That explains the owl.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

What the hell are you talking about.

user19161

@Cerberus Isn't that easy?

user19161

Anyone can ping without the arrow.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

In fact anyone can ping themselves without the arrow.

Cerberus

I was pinged, and, when I clicked it, your line became yellow but there was no arrow or name.

user19161

10:05 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 Yeah I wonder too.

Cerberus

Huh?

user19161

@cer Ping!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@JasperLoy he just doesn't remember anything.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Clearly turning into a nutcase.

Cerberus

No, there is no name in Reg's line.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

10:06 PM

He's been on the site for so long, he has no idea what it's all about.

3 mins ago, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

BTW @Rob @Cer @Kit @Vit congratulation for have a level 11 faction. But really we are asombrate with our

Should I bold the part where it says "@Cer"?

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 I hope he's not on drugs.

Cerberus

RegDwight Ѭſ道

4 mins ago, by RegDwight Ѭſ道

BTW @Rob @Cer @Kit @Vit congratulation for have a level 11 faction. But really we are asombrate with our

There, better now?

Cerberus

What the hell did you do?

user19161

@Cerberus He edited it to effect the ping silly.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

10:08 PM

Yeah. For starters, I mistyped 11.

Cerberus

The ping was there immediately when he typed it the first time.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

You are just faster than light, buddy. That's what speed will do to you.

user19161

@Cerberus Maybe because the screen does not refresh as fast as the sound.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Try marihuana instead.

Cerberus

And my name was still not there by the time I posted that screenshot above.

user19161

10:09 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 marijuana

Cerberus

@JasperLoy I guess that must be it, but then refreshing is extremely slow, if it must take a minute.

user19161

Wait, is that how you spell marijuana, marihuana?

Cerberus

But it's bed time, I'm falling asleep typpiuug bvf;v

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Marihuana

Marihuana (umgangssprachlich Gras) bezeichnet die getrockneten harzhaltigen weiblichen Blütenstände und Blätter der Hanfpflanze, welche als Droge konsumiert werden. Neben dem Haschisch und dem Haschischöl ist es eine Form von Cannabisdrogen. Die Blüten des Cannabis bilden an der Blattoberfläche sogenannte Trichome, an denen die Pflanze das cannabinoidhaltige Harz bildet. Der im Harz enthaltene Hauptwirkstoff ist das Terpenoid Tetrahydrocannabinol (THC). Weitere Cannabinoide in signifikantem Maß sind Cannabidiol (CBD) und Cannabinol (CBN), neben mehreren Hundert weiteren vorkommenden S...

user19161

This room is messing up my spelling.

user19161

10:10 PM

@RegDwightѬſ道 That's German.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

And yours is Spanish, so?

user19161

Cannabis (drug)

Cannabis, also known as marijuana (from the Mexican Spanish marihuana) and by other names, refers to preparations of the Cannabis plant intended for use as a psychoactive drug and as medicine. Chemically, the major psychoactive compound in marijuana is delta-9-tetrahydrocannabinol (Δ9-THC); it is one of 400 compounds in the plant, including other cannabinoids, such as cannabidiol (CBD), cannabinol (CBN), and tetrahydrocannabivarin (THCV), which can produce sensory effects unlike the psychoactive effects of THC.{{cite journal |author=Fusar-Poli P, Crippa JA, Bhattacharyya S, et al. |ti...

user19161

But it has been imported into English.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

See, that's the funniest part. Even the Spanish don't spell it with a J.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 They have to pay me royalties for using that letter.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

10:12 PM

You import it and then you change the spelling to make it make less sense.

Just like with Tissuan.

user19161

@Cerberus Good night!