English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

15:00

@Kitḫ If they think that way, they are being silly.

Nah most men are decent.

Robusto

> The formal operational period is the fourth and final of the periods of cognitive development in Piaget's theory.[8] This stage, which follows the Concrete Operational stage, commences at around 11 years of age (puberty) and continues into adulthood.[8] In this stage, individuals move beyond concrete experiences and begin to think abstractly, reason logically and draw conclusions from the information available, as well as apply all these processes to hypothetical situations.

Cerberus

Right.

Kitḫ

I am so tired and I can't think of how to run this meeting that I am preparing for.

Cerberus

Most people seem to have reached this stage.

@Kitḫ Take a break?

I will be leaving you soon as well.

Kitḫ

Well, the meeting is imminent.

Cerberus

15:05

Hmm.

Let other people talk?

Keep it brief?

Kitḫ

It should be brief, but if I don't have a firm grip on it, the project lead will use the opportunity to hear himself talk.

user19161

@Kitḫ I am not a jerk though.

user19161

@Kitḫ Take things one at a time.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Understanding pointers is tricky and non-intuitive, or at least, it was for me. I had to really think about it and sometimes still have to stop and think. So while this statement is probably exaggerating about it being a mental defect of sorts, it is true that understanding pointers is/can be hard and is crucial (moreso if your language uses pointers a lot, like C does)

But I forgot myself: I'm not teaching you any more CS. :)

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Maybe just lean back and zone out?

user19161

15:10

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Is that what you studied?

Vitaly

@Robusto 20,000 years ago, you could give a female a chunk of a mammoth's derrière and in return you would get sex. And pubic lice. Fast forward a few thousand years to the Middle Ages. Now the female demands gold jewellery, castles, and gems. You get the same old sex in return. The pubic lice are now nicely supplemented with gonorrhea and syphilis, though.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Joel also said that it was hardly necessary any more to be able to manipulate them, as modern programming languages do it for you.

Vitaly

@Robusto Fast forward another 500 years. Present day. Now you have to own a few Ferraris, Chelsea F.C. and a bag of diamonds. And what do you get in return? Nothing new, except you also get AIDS along with the pubic-lice-gonorrhea-syphilis bundle.

Inflation much, huh?

Cerberus

What a wonderfully inspiring tale!

user19161

@Vitaly Is that original?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:11

@JasperLoy I studied computer engineering.

Robusto

@Vitaly Wow. And I thought my view of this was dark.

Vitaly

^_^

Kitḫ

@Robusto Well, Vitaly's not getting any.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus Well, modern languages do hide many of the annoying details. But it is good to have an understanding of how they work. AND lots and lots of code is written in non-modern languages.

user19161

@Vitaly I wonder what it would be like another 100 years from now.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:13

@Vitaly Wow, you're overpaying, I think.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yup, it can't hurt.

Kitḫ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 No shit. I'd do it for a handful of tulips.

user19161

@Vitaly While on the topic of AIDS, for those interested, check out virusmyth.com. I know many will think the site is bullshit but keep an open mind.

Cerberus

l.autohotkey.net/docs/misc/Arrays.htm

@MrShinyandNew: What do you think of this?

It is probably inferior to more professional languages, but the current version of AHK does have many features.

Kitḫ

@JasperLoy Are you joking? Quotations from non-specialists from almost twenty years ago?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:20

@Cerberus Well, the "pseudo-arrays" bit is rubbish, but we've been over that. The other thing, associative arrays, is fine. It's similar to how Javascript does it. BTW I hate the AHK syntax.

user19161

@Kitḫ The site is huge. That is only the front page. There are many professors and even Nobel winners there.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Haha OK.

Kitḫ

@JasperLoy And the most recent citation is 12 years old.

user19161

@Kitḫ Maybe because everything to be said has been said?

Kitḫ

Right. Sure.

user19161

15:22

Today I say 1+1=2, I don't have to say it 9000 years later again.

Robusto

@Cerberus: Why don't you just learn COBOL and be done with it?

user19161

9000 years later, we still have 1+1=2. QED.

Kitḫ

Or maybe it is because they were wrong and shut up about it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy And today, if I say 1 + 1 = 3, keep an open mind, buddy! should I say it again tomorrow, or did I just redefine math forever?

Kitḫ

Most of the quotations are indescribably ignorant.

user19161

15:25

Well, I have done my job in showing you the site. Now the seeds of doubt have been sown.

Cerberus

@Robusto Are you saying I'm a kobold?

Kitḫ

"There is no proof that putting two numbers together actually sums them. 1+1 is not 2, but rather 11." —Kit, 1994 Nobel Laureate for Poetry.

Cerberus

How dare you!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

AIDS denialism

AIDS denialism is the view held by a loosely connected group of people and organizations who deny that the human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) is the cause of acquired immune deficiency syndrome (AIDS). Some denialists reject the existence of HIV, while others accept that HIV exists but say that it is a harmless passenger virus and not the cause of AIDS. Insofar as denialists acknowledge AIDS as a real disease, they attribute it to some combination of sexual behavior, recreational drugs, malnutrition, poor sanitation, hemophilia, or the effects of the drugs used to treat HIV infection. The...

Kitḫ

It is absurd. The mechanism and effects of HIV have been well studied.

It is a virus that destroys the immune system.

Robusto

15:27

@MrShinyandNew安宇 This supports my assertion that most people seem not to get to Piaget's "formal operational" stage of mental development.

Cerberus

Oh God, not that again.

There is scientific consensus. There are other topics that invite to more interesting debates.

Kitḫ

Mtg. Later.

Cerberus

Good luck.

Vitaly

Jan 19 at 19:32, by aedia λ

Besides, it's much more important for us to be arguing about what color the invisible unicorn in the sky is!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto Oh, I totally agree with that. Or else, Piaget's stages need to be less optimistic in their description.

@Cerberus This is not a matter of debate. It's a matter of correcting Jasper so that he stops spreading misinformation that could lead to people dying.

Cerberus

15:31

@Vitaly And that's just one example!

It could also be a narwhal!

@MrShinyandNew安宇 That is a bit over-dramatic.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus No, it's not. People who believe the aids-denialists will avoid proper treatment.

I can cite cases.

Cerberus

The believing is the weak link.

BRB groceries.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Like, a mother who formed a support group for hiv-positive pregnant women who didn't want to take antiretrovirals that can prevent the spread of HIV to their unborn babies.

Her own child died of AIDS-related pneumonia.

That is one child whose death could have been prevented if people understood science instead of believing asinine conspiracy theories.

Cerberus

You're exaggerating. Jasper is not discouraging people to take their medicines. Nor is he causing people to die. I think you should be a bit careful there.

But now I'm off, later!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus He is spreading misinformation as truth.

user19161

15:36

I just realized it's V day tomorrow!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It is for this reason, @Jasper, that I think you should study some biology before posting any more links to that aids-denial website. If you even convince one person that, for example, they shouldn't take their HIV meds, someone's death could be on your hands. I am totally serious.

user19161

Well, not a special day for me though.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Hmm, not actually convincing others to do anything or not, just presenting the site for your reading and own thinking!

user19161

I am not a Nobel prize winner but some of the people there are.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@JasperLoy If you think that website is false, you should clearly say so. If you think the information is true, or may be true, you need to stop linking it and read more science or else you are part of the problem.

@JasperLoy That doesn't mean they are not wrong. The evidence against them is overwhelming.

user19161

15:40

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I would say that reading the site cast serious doubts in me about the so called established viewpoint.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Obama won a nobel prize just for being black. So it doesn't mean much that someone may have nobel prizes. Anyway, only nobel prizes in aids research qualify them to speak on it.

@JasperLoy Well, maybe you should read some actual science instead.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Hmm, maybe what is on that site is actually science? There was once I said maybe some pseudoscience is science and some science is pseudoscience.

Robusto

@Cerberus Do the Dutch have kobolds? Or are they keboeldz or some other made-up word for a made-up thing.

user19161

But anyway, I have nothing to add.

user19161

@Robusto I just looked that up on Wikipedia.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:43

@JasperLoy this statement shows a total lack of understanding about how the scientific community works. If a scientist could prove that HIV and AIDS were not related in the way that they are, that would overturn decades of scientific findings and would make that person an instant celebrity. Science CRAVES new information. It doesn't suppress it.

Remember: science is not a conspiracy. It is a process. When a scientist demonstrates a flaw in the accepted body of scientific knowledge that makes the knowledge stronger, not weaker.

If there was any truth to the virusmyth stuff they would have actual evidence of it. They'd be rockstars of the science world. Household names, even.

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 There is zero proof for creationism, but that doesn't stop a certain kind of person from claiming it to be true.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto At least creationism doesn't cost lives.

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I'm sure that's a generous interpretation.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Even the Catholic Church doesn't believe in Creationism. But I guess many "Christians" don't think the Catholics are Christian. So... whatever. I don't want to get started on this topic.

Cerberus

@Robusto We have kobolds, but it may be a borrowed word.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 There are arguments against the latter statement.

Vitaly

15:59

Oh yes, creationism does cost lives:

> Rudi, a scientist, was backpacking in Australia and ran into a fellow Brit. They were in a pub when the talk got to creationism versus evolution. The other person got incensed & eventually Rudi ended up dead. The man was convicted of manslaughter.

^_^

Cerberus

Aaand we have a winner.

Anonymous

Hello

Cerberus

Hi!

Anonymous

How are you?

Cerberus

Good! Have you practised new sounds?

Anonymous

16:02

No, my sound is not much better :)

Cerberus

I'm sure you are progressing.

Anonymous

I look at your profile picture. Is it a monster?

Anonymous

16:15

I am sorry if I say something wrong :)

Cerberus

@Anonymous Yup, I'm a mythical hell hound!

Sorry, I was AFK.

(Away from keyboard.)

Robusto

►

Cerberus

Yeah, I'm out to get you!

Kitḫ

16:32

gnashes teeth

Cerberus

Hi!

Was it that bad?

Kitḫ

Waited for 25 minutes for him to finish his prior meeting.

Then the big boss and the project lead talked about the other meeting for most of the meeting I had.

Cerberus

Blerg.

Then why have this meeting in the first place?

Kitḫ

Because they are supposed to be interested in the progress I am making.

Cerberus

But they were just wasting your time?

Kitḫ

16:39

Pretty much.

Lunch is making me feel a little better though.

Cerberus

Good.

I gotta go.

Kitḫ

Bye.

Cerberus

Smuggle a bottle of gin into your office, and laugh at their stupidity.

Bye!

Kitḫ

Tschüß!

Cerberus

tries to walk away elegantly, but it is more like plodding

MetaEd

16:56

"No meetings." ---John Cusack

Robusto

John Kerry waffles on SOPA/PIPA.

Basically, he's saying, "I hear you, and whatever you want to hear is in here somewhere."

Cerberus

Nice copy-pasting there.

scribd.com/doc/79846477/The-Sky-is-Rising

Turns out copyright infringement does not harm the entertainment industry at all: consumer spending on entertainment has gone up and up over the past decade.

Vitaly

google.com/search?q=%22HasCgi:+y%22

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

17:14

@Cerberus You don't think that a person who could prove that the current understanding of HIV/AIDS (or any major scientific body of knowledge) was wrong would become a celebrity (at least among scientists)?

brb

MetaEd

18:01

@Cerberus Notably as a solvent.

Kitḫ

Ahoy, @Meta

@Reg Should I bother with 666?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Kitḫ I am spending a bar as we speak.

Kitḫ

OK.

MetaEd

[ˈhaʊ.diː]!

666?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Yes. DCLXVI, to be precise.

Kitḫ

18:16

Well, I wasn't awful.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I might even be in the black. Might.

Kitḫ

I am definitely in the black.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Anyhow they are pulling away. So I guess it's regen and new active war.

MetaEd

I am guessing I should not know what this all means.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

kongregate.com/games/synapticon/tyrant

17

Q: What does using "one" before a person's name mean?

I've seen this written in various places and I know it's rather formal, but I'm not 100% sure of the meaning. I was greeted by one John Smith... My impression is that it is to introduce a name in a narrative, to mark its first mention, but am I right?

meaning

Oh come on, 17 upvotes and no votes to close?

Robusto

18:26

@RegDwightѬſ道 Now you tell me.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Robusto Nah, I emptied into them as did Kit. You are not alone.

Anyhow. Gen-ref and closed as such.

MetaEd

@RegDwightѬſ道 This must be one of those "computer games" I've heerd tell of.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Browser games.

I don't play computer games. At all.

MetaEd

Oh, the browser game. I already won that.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

WTF is that.

user19161

18:35

@RegDwightѬſ道 Because one is not two. QED.

user19161

18:46

0

Q: What does OT stand for?

I often see people use OT on stack exchange websites. Does it mean Old Testament or Off Topic?

expressions

user19161

Too localized?

Robusto

@JasperLoy GAFTAD.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto oh what's GAFTAD

RegDwight Ѭſ道

23

Q: List of common abbreviations (NOAD, ESL, PIE...)

Abbreviations are always a potential source of confusion. Some people might happen to know what OED stands for, and can figure out what NOAD must mean, but others may not be so lucky. Googling for PIE is rather useless even for native speakers, and completely perplexing to non-native ones. Thus,...

discussion faq

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Get A Fine Thesaurus. Also, Dictionary.

And I'll be damned if it isn't MrDisappointment right there in our internet commenting on our questions.

Robusto

19:04

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Get a frickin' thesaurus and dictionary. But not exactly in those words.

@RegDwightѬſ道 You mean my internet. You are all trespassers.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@RegDwightѬſ道 who's Mr. Disappointment

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Every politician ever. Really.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto I see. But that doesn't explain why @Reg mentioned his commenting on that question.

Robusto

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Perfectionist.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto As in, Mr D is a perfectionist?

Robusto

19:10

@MrShinyandNew安宇 He might be. In which case he might also be Shiny And New.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Robusto I no longer understand what you're talking about.

MetaEd

19:28

@RegDwightѬſ道 That's what you get when you reach the end of the Internet.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

remember that site that let you turn off the internet? sadly it doesn't work properly anymore.

MetaEd

I don't remember it.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

turnofftheinternet.com

It used to create a full-screen window that simulated the appearance of the Windows 95 shutdown screen. Now it's popup-blocked and if you unblock it it doesn't make a large enough window anyway.

It was funny back in the day though.

These days anyone who "fell" for it could verify with their phone that the internet was not, indeed, turned off.

Cell phones are going to ruin every practical joke and old movie plot.

MetaEd

@MrShinyandNew安宇 cute.

Howdy, s.

user19161

20:08

I once asked Mr Disappointment whether he is disappointing or disappointed.

user19161

He said he is a bit of both.

user19161

1

Q: Is there a difference between "select" and "selected"?

When flying, I often read phrases like the following: Special Meals only available on select flights […] Then again, wouldn't it also make sense to say Special Meals only available on selected flights […] What's the difference between these two? When should I use one over the other?

word-choice differences meaning-in-context

user19161

I am surprised this question has so few votes of any kind. The title makes it seem trivial perhaps.

user19161

Indeed, I initially thought he was just asking about the present and past tense.

Robusto

20:21

@JasperLoy I looked at it and decided it was too much trouble to try to explain a boring distinction that the OP should have looked up in a dictionary anyway.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

20:46

Have we covered this ground before?

3

Q: Is "It is you who are mistaken!" correct?

This is a line, spoken by the Emperor to Luke in Star Wars. I always wondered if this is grammatically correct. Luke says something like "You are mistaken ..." which the Emperor answers with No, it is you who are mistaken! Why wouldn't he say No, it is you who is mistaken! I don't kn...

grammar quotes

RegDwight Ѭſ道

That's what I thought, but turns out I misremembered.

5

Q: "It is they who lied" or "it is them who lied?"

Which is the correct usage of the third person, plural pronoun? It is they who lied. It is them who lied.

pronouns

Closely related yet different.

user19161

Misrembered is better than being dismembered.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Yes, quite distinct they are. And here I have used Robusto's anastrophe.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

You must ask him for permission first. Then pay royalties.

user19161

I will pay royalties to Jimmy Wales.

user19161

20:53

Anastrophe

Anastrophe (from the , anastrophē, "a turning back or about") is a figure of speech in which a language's usual word order is inverted: for example, saying "smart you are" to mean "you are smart". In English, because its natural word order is settled, anastrophe emphasizes the displaced word or phrase. For example, the name of the City Beautiful urbanist movement emphasizes "beautiful"; similarly, in the line "This is the forest primeval" (from Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's Evangeline), "primeval" comes to the fore. Where the emphasis that comes from anastrophe is not an issue, "inversion" ...

Robusto

@JasperLoy No. Listen to @Reg, who is your moderator here. Royalties come to me.

user19161

Robusto also taught me another ana, not anal, but anaphora.

user19161

Anaphora (rhetoric)

In rhetoric, an Anaphora (, "carrying back") is a rhetorical device that consists of repeating a sequence of words at the beginnings of neighboring clauses, thereby lending them emphasis. In contrast, an epistrophe (or epiphora) is repeating words at the clauses' ends. Anaphora is contrasted with cataphora. See also other figures of speech involving repetition. One author well-known for his use of anaphora is Charles Dickens (seen in quotation below). Some of his best-known works constantly portray their themes through use of this literary tool. Examples :In time the savage bull sus...

Robusto

@JasperLoy Don't blame me for your ananas-ness.

user19161

@Robusto You know, I am still not sure whether I am an ananas or not, but I think I'm not.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

21:02

@JasperLoy What language do you speak at home, with your mother?

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Chinese, and also a bit of English. But everyone here learns both and speaks both, sort of.

user19161

24

Q: Meaning of "native speaker" of English

Who is considered a native speaker of English? I am a little confused by the various answers found online.

linguistics

user19161

That is why I asked this question answered by Robusto himself.

user19161

And for anaphora I asked the following question.

user19161

4

Q: Writing "A , so B, so C..." for series of implications

Is it correct to write A, so B, so C... to represent a series of implications? For example, He is sick, so he is on leave, so you have to do his work, so you cannot leave now, so please let her know. If not what is a good way to express this?

grammaticality conjunctions syntax

user19161

21:04

Also answered by Robusto during which I came across the term.

Mitch

@RegDwightѬſ道 It should be definition umpteenth in the OED so ostensibly 'general reference'. But it has all sorts of connotations that are most likely just not present there. I thought the answerers mostly missed the variations.

user19161

@Mitch Well, but nobody has access to the OED except a few users.

Mitch

@JasperLoy Therefore a reason not to close it?

user19161

@Mitch Not therefore a reason not to close it, that is another issue which I have not thought about.

Mitch

@MrShinyandNew安宇 added to meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/147/…

user19161

21:12

Just a casual reply to your OED comment.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Mitch Heh thanks.

Mitch

@JasperLoy Oh.

@JasperLoy then I only casually take it as a suggestion to RegDwight to reopen it.

Robusto

21:28

@MrShinyandNew安宇 But it's interesting that that question gets 8 upvotes already. Must be the Star Wars halo effect.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Yeah

well, time for me to go.

bye everyone

Robusto

CYA

RegDwight Ѭſ道

21:50

@Mitch the thing is, this question right here is not one about nuances. It bluntly asks what the word means. Most importantly, it has an accepted answer already, and that accepted answer says just what Wiktionary does.

If the OP accepts the kind of answer he could have gotten simply by checking Wiktionary, that's gen ref.

And then there's that answer about irony that should really just be a comment.

Every word can be used ironically. And there is no, absolutely zero, evidence that it is being used ironically in the quote provided by the OP.

So IMHO this is just another question to file away under "the MultiCollider must die".

And hey, no damage done by closing. The OP got his answer, a couple folks maxed out on reps, everybody's happy.

user19161

@RegDwightѬſ道 Yay!!!

Mitch

22:19

@RegDwightѬſ道 OK..that's fine...I considered trying to give the nuanced answer but that would be a lot of work. and, as you say, everybody's happy.

MetaEd

I'm happy.

user19161

22:49

If you are not happy, get a McDonald's Happy Meal. QED.

MetaEd

McDonald's: Eat At The Clown.

Mahnax

23:05

@JasperLoy Please stop saying QED.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

23:27

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Actually we did cover this ground before.

Courtesy of FumbleFingers' comment, I remembered another question.

3

Q: What rules make “Remember me, who am your friend” grammatical?

An acquaintance recalled this specific example from an English textbook, but it is jarring to my native ear. Is this an example of prescriptive grammarians gone wild?

grammaticality syntax

Vitaly

23:38

‎@RegDwight so what do you use? because Vigils are one of the most annoying decks for me

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Vitaly My LtW deck. Can't be arsed to tweak it.

Vitaly

Wow, seriously.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Sure.

I would need more Siege, and more Disease wouldn't hurt either, but hey, it's just one guy and we'll get the 1 point whether or not we reach 2.5k.

MetaEd

0

Q: What is a mezrag-holder?

I stumbled upon this word in one of my anthropology readings. Here's an excerpt: The robbers were from a tribe which had not yet submitted to French authority and were in open rebellion against it, and he wanted authorization to go with his mezrag-holder, the Marmusha tribal sheikh, to collec...

history

Not a question about an English word.

Vitaly

@Reg buy more Captors (rep with Obliterators reward)

Though those lose when Hierophant is played first … Damn it.

Sonic The Hedgehog

23:53

yo.

Mahnax

Hey.

Sonic The Hedgehog

Whats up?

Mahnax

Oh, just internetting.

Sonic The Hedgehog

Tomorrow is Valentine's day...

Time for my story about Valentine.

Sit around in the circle, kids.

I am about to tell you a story.

Mahnax

@SonicTheHedgehog Everyone here is older than you.

Sonic The Hedgehog

23:56

shrugs

ready?

Good.

Once upon a time...

At the age of Romans...

There lived a saint.

His name was St.Valentine.

Now this saint was special.

You see, he belived in rights of marrige.

However, Rome was at the state of War at the time.

The evil emperor odrdered all men to be in the army.

Now, it seemed that all marriages was going to have to be postponed.

However, St.Valentine had other ideas.

He decided the make marriages secretly.

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…