English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

15:01

@Cerberus I'm not sure what you mean by this. When you find a correlation, you are often interested in understanding why that correlation is there. Is it causation? Or some root cause? or something else? But the fact is, you've found a correlation, and that's all you can say until you do further analysis.

And if you want to say "correlation implies some kind of causal relationship somewhere", then fine, that maybe be true for philosophers, but is useless for science and for communicating with scientists and the public. "Correlation does not imply causation" is true because if A and B are correlated then it does not follow that A directly causes B or B directly causes A.

If you want to stretch the definition of "causation" until it breaks, go ahead, but you're no longer communicating anything.

Kitḫ

Yes, exactly. Harrumph. grumbles and shakes fist

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I see your point. You feel that "causation" should only be used where it is practical. And I agree. And the casual use of the word may imply a direct causal relation. I'm fine with that too. But I can't get over eradicating the word "causal" from its meaning of "having to do with cause (and effect)", and excluding relationships in which some kind of causation is certainly involved. And you don't need to do that, because, as Kit says, you don't need causation at all in statistics.

Kitḫ

Happy New Year!

By the way.

gives red envelopes to @MrShiny for his kids

Cerberus

Hahaha. Where do you come up with that?

Kitḫ

It's New Year, silly.

I opened my work journal, and as I was typing the date, I realized what day it is.

Cerberus

15:11

Damn. That means I have definitely missed so many deadlines.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

It's the year of the dragon now

Cerberus

Hmm what day is it?

Oh!

Kitḫ

I know. It's my year.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ Thanks!

Kitḫ

I am a dragon baby!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:12

My wife is a dragon too

Cerberus

What does one say in China? "Happy New Year"? "Lotsa Love"?

Kitḫ

Oh! I am torn between saying "She must be so young" and "she must be so old!"

@Cerberus Xinnian kuaile!

Which means Happy New Year!

Cerberus

Oh!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ Well, she's older than me, but probably younger than you.

Cerberus

Cool.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:13

So, "She's so young!" is not inappropriate.

Kitḫ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I mean strictly in terms of cultural propriety.

Cerberus

Haha.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

You can also say "gong xi fa cai" which means "congratulations and may you [get rich|have good fortune]"

@Kitḫ When it comes to age, she is Canadian. :)

Kitḫ

Also, um, yongyuan kuaile, right?

@MrShinyandNew安宇 In that case, oh, so young!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ 永远快乐?

Kitḫ

15:15

I keep forgetting that you are younger than me.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ Well, barely

Kitḫ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 That's what I was thinking. Is that right?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

I've never heard it before, but that doesn't mean it isn't right

Kitḫ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 It's the "Mr." You keep fooling me. Like @Matt with his blond hair making me think he was Californian all the time.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

yeah, it does make me seem all fuddy-duddy

RegDwight Ѭſ道

15:16

@Kit, @Cer, @Rob, you got any stam? We are getting grilled.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But it's too late now: can't change my username everywhere on the internet.

Kitḫ

@RegDwightѬſ道 I've been putting it in periodically, but I am not faring well.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 You'll grow into it.

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 OK!

I want this.

Robusto

@RegDwightѬſ道 Which fight?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Kitḫ heheh I've already started doing old-man things, like wearing slippers around the house. But that could be because we have hardwood floors.

Cerberus

15:18

How come I never realized I need this?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Robusto X-Com.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus what is it?

Cerberus

3D Printer!

Robusto

@RegDwightѬſ道 Very poor surge rate against them.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

I know. Same here. Switch to Fight if you must.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:22

@Cerberus I will wait to buy a 3d printer until it can obsolete Lego bricks.

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 Lost all but one. This is gong nowhere. Always Predator or Niaq or Dozer first turn. For them.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 That will be soon!

RegDwight Ѭſ道

4

A: Is there a prefix that indicates that an event recurs four times a year?

Quarterly is the word that is used when you want to divide an year into three or convert year in terms of 3 months.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus when that day comes, the world is going to undergo significant changes

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 We'll print dozens of Mr. Shinies, one for each room.

@RegDwightѬſ道 Hahaha wow. We have a winner.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I'm already in every room I go into! I'm everywhere

Cerberus

15:27

And it has 4 fucking votes!

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Oh, no! I can only be in three rooms at once.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Well, I just downvoted

@Cerberus when you go into a room, don't you find yourself there?

Cerberus

Eh in fact I do, sometimes.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus This person posted the exact same word as had been posted five hours earlier, worded it all wrong so it didn't even make sense, then edited it so it still doesn't make sense, and got four upvotes for that!

Cerberus

@RegDwightѬſ道 Not only does it not make sense, it is plain wrong!

That is the best part.

> Quarterly is the word that is used when you want to divide an year into three

How are we ever going to top this?

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Yup. Look at the edit: english.stackexchange.com/posts/55667/revisions

Cerberus

15:30

@RegDwightѬſ道 Haha, wow.

Okay, let's be charitable and presume it was semantic satiation.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

It said "divide an year into four or convert year in terms of 4 months" at first, then someone commented "did you mean 3 months?", so he changed the number of months, but also changed the number of parts.

So it changed a right/wrong into a wrong/right.

Cerberus

Yeah, I see.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

And again, he did that five hours after the word had been posted by someone else.

Cerberus

Bonus points, I agree.

"An year" is a nice touch as well.

Perhaps he should ask a couple of questions about an v. a.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

Yeah I wanted to fix it but then I just went ahead and deleted.

Cerberus

15:33

Good.

RegDwight Ѭſ道

@Cerberus a couple? Are you crazy? That's not enough.

Cerberus

You're right!

And should they all be worded exactly the same, or slightly differently?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus I think you mean an couple

Cerberus

Oops.

A ananas.

@aedia: whinny! neigh!

aedia λ

@Cerberus startled, splashes coffee

Hi!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

15:44

►

Cerberus

@aediaλ cookie

aedia λ

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Hahaha! That is so me...

@Cerberus om nom nom

Thankye!

Kitḫ

Ohai!

My Chinese co-worker got married over the holidays.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@aediaλ It's a good enough commercial but years later I had a hard time remembering WHICH brand of coffee it was :) google coffee spill rug maxwell house... nope. coffee spill rug folgers... nope.

Kitḫ

He gave me candy.

I have no idea what is the custom. I said congratulations and thank you.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 coffee spill rug sanka...definitely not.

It took me ages to remember to say "no, thanks" when my ex-'s parents offered me "coffee."

aedia λ

15:49

@MrShinyandNew安宇 I had never even heard of Nabob.

@Kitḫ Hiya!

Sanka is instant, right?

Kitḫ

Yep.

Instant barf-in-your-mouth.

aedia λ

I bought a jar of instant coffee once.

Kitḫ

Do you still have it?

aedia λ

I always wondered why my family never had it and thought it might be a viable option for college survival in desperate moments.

I threw it out after a couple years.

shudders at the memory

Cerberus

BRB later!

aedia λ

15:51

Now, chocolate-covered coffee beans, those were worth keeping around.

@Cerberus Later, alligator!

Kitḫ

@aediaλ spontaneous orgasm

Thanks for that.

aedia λ

giggles

Drat! I have so much chocolate still left over from the holidays and I keep forgetting to bring it to work. looks sadly at contents of mostly empty desk drawer

nytimes.com/2012/01/23/science/earth/…

Kitḫ

Oh, pretty!

aedia λ

> “There are so many across the country, everywhere, by the thousands,” Mr. Holt said. “It’s unbelievable. They are being seen from Boston, to the Great Lakes, the Ohio River Valley, Kansas, Vancouver and Seattle.”

@Reg, I didn't know you had so many winged pals!

Kitḫ

> “It’s a massive movement,” said Mark Robbins.

Heheh. I had one of those this morning.

giggle

aedia λ

16:05

almost snorts coffee up nose

Kitḫ

OMG! Harry Potter spoilers! What are these people thinking?

aedia λ

Bad NYT! Bad bad bad!

Kitḫ

OMG! eBird! I know those people! I used to work for them!

OK, well, not exactly. But kinda.

aedia λ

I was just about to say I adore Cornell Lab of Ornithology (also, the horticulture dept that has the awesome gardens you can visit, I've forgotten what that's called)

I was at Ithaca College when I was out there, so just visiting the Cornell stuff.

But it was summer and everything was beautiful.

Robusto

> "The owl was killed on Thanksgiving by federal officials who feared that the bird would interfere with landings and takeoffs."

Kitḫ

16:12

I took a class with Tim Devoogd and did some lab work for him, so I met some of the ornithologists when I was there.

Robusto

Right. Because one owl can bring down a 747, whereas a flock of seagulls only destroys music.

Kitḫ

Bite your tongue!

aedia λ

ebird.org/ebird/map

Barrie England

@Kitḫ: Yes, I have voted to close a few answers recently. Is that the price we have to pay? It's dispriting to think we have such petty-minded people among us.

aedia λ

^ Here's the searchable map

Kitḫ

16:14

@BarrieEngland It's only one dissenter in a crowd of fans.

user19161

@BarrieEngland You mean close a few questions and not answers. Also, dispiriting.

user19161

I would think people would downvote you if you left nasty comments, which you did not.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting Are you seriously correcting Barrie's spelling?

user19161

To downvote without being provoked by nasty comments is very nasty.

user19161

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yes, it is fun.

user19161

16:17

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Are you celebrating CNY?

Kitḫ

> Here is the message I received while putting in data. [our stock error message] Does that meaning I just lost data i entered.

headdesk

From a literacy teacher!

user19161

@Kitḫ does that mean

Kitḫ

@WillHunting thwack Pay attention!

user19161

@Kitḫ Doesn't mean anything. YMMV.

Kitḫ

23 secs ago, by Kitḫ

@WillHunting thwack Pay attention!

user19161

16:20

Speaking of nasty comments, I received a number of them myself. You'll get over it in a day.

user19161

Sometimes we are not so noble as to do nothing, so we reply with an equally nasty comment as well.

user19161

The whole comment thread then becomes a joke, we all have a good laugh and then case closed.

user19161

So human emotions are often conflicted, a bit of good and bad in everything.

Cerberus

16:36

@Kitḫ Waaaahhhh!

I've picked up my new glasses.

Kitḫ

0

Q: co-living and co-evolving

Today I had a thought a problem I couldn't resolve it on my own. I just can't realize what people will think right after they hear others using the word "co-living" and "co-evolving". I mean a particular thought of any specific information that comes to mind once you may hear I say "they have co-...

NARQ

Robusto

@Cerberus Since when do dogs wear glasses?

Cerberus

@Robusto Hey, I wear what fashion dictates.

@Robusto Hi mommy!

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@WillHunting We're not doing anything special for Chinese New Year

It's not really a big deal in Canada

Robusto

@Cerberus — Another reason I'm glad I live in a free country, as opposed to one where fashion has absolute authority over me.

Kitḫ

16:39

Lunch! Later!

Cerberus

@Robusto You just don't know what you're missing. It's a brave dog world, man.

Bye Kit!

Robusto

You're not so brave if you can't stand up to the fashionistas.

Barrie England

@WillHunting: Yes, quite right.

Cerberus

@Robusto But I just want to blend in with the crowd!

Or I might catch a personality.

Robusto

@Cerberus That ship has sailed, unfortunately.

Cerberus

16:41

Or a soul, rather, as humans have them.

@Robusto Lies!

I am a chameleon.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus citation needed

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 The Bible, book something, verse you-know.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@Cerberus nice try. Fiction isn't allowed

Robusto

@Cerberus This must be a canine citation. I don't recognize the form.

Cerberus

@MrShinyandNew安宇 Hey! I even defended a similar comment once on Meta, but I was outvoted.

One that casually called the Bible fiction.

@Robusto Read the book and all will be clear.

BRB groceries. I'll put on my new specs for you later.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

16:44

@Cerberus I recall that brouhaha

Robusto

@Cerberus I have and it isn't.

Cerberus

Then you're not interpreting it correctly.

Later!

MetaEd

2

Q: Isn't Twitter's error message incorrect?

One of Twitter's error messages reads: Something is technically wrong. Of course I understand what they mean, but am I wrong to interpret this as "strictly speaking, there is something wrong" instead of the intended "there is a technical issue"? What would be the ideal, succinct way to phr...

word-choice grammar

Vote to close.

@Cerberus Someone say meta?

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MetaEd ooh! A bandwagon! Can I jump on?

MetaEd

I hate the weekend. I never have enough vote quota Monday morning.

@MrShinyandNew安宇 If you're fast.

(No offense.)

Cerberus

17:06

@MetaEd Speaking of the...hi!

@MetaEd Huh!?

Oh, wait, I remember.

I've never encountered these quota myself, though.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

@MetaEd Seems I don't need to be all that fast, it's still not closed

MetaEd

@Cerberus I tend to cast quite a few upvotes on good answers, and when I do I also upvote the question. Maybe my filter for good answers is broken.

Cerberus

No, it is a good habit.

You're unlazy.

I have a question. If any anyone here speaks French, what is the interviewer saying here, first word? It sounds like coté, and he says it a lot, all the time.

youtube.com/…

If it is indeed *coté*, does it mean something like "about the side of x"
=> "with respect to x"?

aedia λ

17:22

When I have enough attention to devote that I could write an answer, that's when I run out o' votes. But I've got like two brain cells on the site now and so I only vote some, because I don't like to misjudge. I'm a little more cavalier with the closevotes, since I know things can get reopened if I do something stoopid, but up/down votes will get locked in and I'll never get back there to reassess if edits do get made...

Except, of course, that some mornings I am just so grumpy that I cast like five downvotes before I have my coffee, or so cheerful that I haphazardly upvote everything that looks like it might be a sentence.

But don't tell Reg.

Cerberus

Haha.

The cheerful part is a bit creepy. But in a good way.

aedia λ

Don't worry, I don't think that happens very often...

I slept really well a couple times last week when I actually made myself go to sleep earlyish, but now that the weekend happened, it was hard to do it again.

Cerberus

I know!

It's terrible.

shakes fist at planet and its stupid rotation

> You look around and see a large blur about eleven inches away from your eye. Every once in a while it moves. Hey...wait a minute...just as you had that thought it moved again. Select an action : KEEP LOOKING / LOSE INTEREST

Hmmm tough choice...let's keep looking!

> CONGRATULATIONS! You've found your hand. This may not seem like much of a big discovery but it is. You will have to learn how to control your hands as part of childhood development. When you are an adolescent, those hands are going to get you into quite a bit of trouble -- because that requires a different kind of hand control.

playalterego.com/alterego

Game I'm playing.

Kitḫ

Screws up my monitor. WTF?

aedia λ

@Cerberus I don't really speak French, but doesn't it sound like he's saying à côté or côte à côte some of the time?

user19161

17:35

@aediaλ Well, I give out presents quite often!

Kitḫ

@aediaλ Agreed.

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Huh?

@aediaλ So it seems, but that doesn't make sense. Unless it does.

Something with coté.

user19161

@Cerberus I have no idea what that means.

Kitḫ

@Cerberus "by comparison"

aedia λ

it would make sense if he were saying like, compared/side by side

Cerberus

17:37

@Kitḫ Coté à coté, hmm...but it doesn't seem to make sense.

He says it about twenty times.

MetaEd

@Cerberus lmao

Kitḫ

@Cerberus He's stumbling through a question.

"Um, compared, uh, compared to, um, compared with the Mexican border, is your apps more useful?"

user19161

@Robusto I like this kind of spectacles.

Cerberus

@Kitḫ But I don't seem to be hearing à at all: "eh alors, uhh coté uhh...coté uhhh...".

Kitḫ

@Cerberus It puts up some sort of overlay so I can't really read the page. Something weird going on.

Cerberus

17:40

@Kitḫ Wow, that's weird. FF 9?

At least I seem to remember you were foxy.

Kitḫ

@Cerberus "eh alors, uhh coté uhh...coté uhhh...coté a coté, blah blah blah..."

@Cerberus Yeah.

user19161

@Cerberus I am using that too.

user19161

I think FF is the only good browser.

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Right, I that à could be there.

I'm on FF 9 too.

Does the game work for you , Jasper?

Kitḫ

@Cerberus Well, maybe not, but anyway, I think he's still indicating a comparison. My French listening is terrible, so. You know.

Cerberus

17:42

I'm using Noscript, perhaps that's it.

@Kitḫ You may very well be right.

If I knew I wouldn't be asking, hehe.

aedia λ

I couldn't really tell what he was asking the dude about his apps 'cause I can only get the easy words and cognates, so I can hear the conversational pattern but not the content.

user19161

@Cerberus The first few clicks work.

Cerberus

Oh well. Perhaps slurring over à is common.

user19161

I set javascript to be able to do everything.

Cerberus

@aediaλ He was asking whether it is like an app store. You know them frogs, they always pronounce English words funny.

@WillHunting Hmmm strange!

Then it's something about Kit's browser.

Or something you and I have in common.

Kitḫ

17:45

Or my hardware. It seems that it is actually just crazily dimming my page, then undimming it, then dimming it a little...

user19161

@Cerberus Maybe virused!

Cerberus

@Kitḫ Hmm wow.

user19161

@Cerberus Looks like a long game, I'll play it some other time. It looks interesting!

Cerberus

@WillHunting Unlikely. Viruses are not that common. Hehe.

@WillHunting Oh, don't feel obliged, it's not mine!

I just thought it was funny.

user19161

@Cerberus They will infect you first, no antivirus!

Cerberus

17:47

Then how come I had no virus on my previous XP, after four years of use, no anti-virus?

user19161

@Cerberus All hidden!

Kitḫ

@Cerberus Because you didn't know you had it, Mr. Herpegonasyphilaids!

Cerberus

Hidden so well that multiple virus scanners couldn't find it?

user19161

But I must say sometimes antiviruses want to remove legitimate stuff.

Cerberus

I had MS SE, Avira, and Spybot scan my entire computer. Nothing serious.

user19161

17:49

@Cerberus One is enough.

Cerberus

So, if they couldn't find anything, then whatever was there would not have been stopped by any anti-virus program.

user19161

You should only install at most one antivirus.

Cerberus

@WillHunting More is better.

@WillHunting Why?

That's silly.

user19161

@Cerberus No, they will kill each other.

Cerberus

They won't.

You just shouldn't enable real-time protection.

user19161

17:50

They might. It is well-known I think.

Cerberus

But you can scan all you like.

@WillHunting Nope, not true.

user19161

@Cerberus Ah yes.

user19161

If I am on Windows I just scan once and then enable real-time protection and disable auto scans since they can take pretty long.

Cerberus

I hate real-time stuff. I tried it with MS SE last week to test it, and already certain pauses and slow-downs occurred.

user19161

If I am on Linux, I don't use any antivirus at all.

Cerberus

17:51

There are viruses for Linux.

But much of the virus talk is meant for the inexperienced, like your grandmother, who don't know what they're doing.

user19161

Yes, but an antivirus for Linux won't be as useful since by default Linux is much harder to be infected.

Cerberus

I heartily recommend real-time protection for them.

@WillHunting Why?

If you run an evil executable, won't it be able to mess with your computer?

Kitḫ

sudo infect Jas's computer

user19161

@Cerberus If you choose to run it. Then antiviruses are useless, since you CHOOSE to run it.

user19161

But I am not an expert in computer matters, just my 2 cents.

Cerberus

17:54

@WillHunting D'oh! Exactly my point.

> Select an action : ROLL TO SIDE / MAKE AN "O" SHAPE WITH YOUR MOUTH / CRY

This game is funny.

I like.

> This maneuver is a little too difficult to accomplish at your present age, but it is good exercise. You can roll about half-way to one side.

user19161

It's like the movie Butterfly Effect.

user19161

Sometimes I do that in my thoughts: return to the past and think how things would be different if this had not happened.

user19161

It's true that one small thing can lead to many big things.

Cerberus

Yup.

user19161

Someone's fart can potentially cause a tornado.

aedia λ

17:57

@Cerb re:gestures, this is the Mac laptop my husband has. I can't handle them all, but he says he learned them in the first week that he used the thing for projects.

Cerberus

> DAAAAAA... MAAAAAA... Your Mom hears this combination and gets excited. This causes you to say it over and over. Your Mom is reinforcing this combination of sounds with attention, and you are reinforcing her attention with the sounds, keeping her close to you. This marks the beginning of language development and is a very significant moment in your life. Intellectual, Emotional, and Social spheres increase.

aedia λ

►

You inbetweener!

Your language development was so important that you couldn't wait? :P

user19161

@aediaλ Like mahnax, an apple boy.

Cerberus

@aediaλ Oops.

@aediaλ Yeah those gestures are pretty nifty. The Windows laptop we bought for my friend has most of those too. Not sure about the 3- and 4-finger gestures.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…