English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:02

@snailplane I don't think any licence could lift the obligation of attribution...

Mazura

00:37

No, but y'all want top hit on Google or what does.

Money talks....

Is there an appropriate SE to ask about the inner workings of Google and their company policies?

Færd

01:21

@Mazura Where did those stars come from? (As if it's not obvious.)

What do you say to someone who has just finished a meal prepared by you and thanked you for it?

Mazura

01:39

@Færd - I actually don't know, and really have no idea. Whoever it was has lurked the entire conversation. I don't recall anyone being on my side.

@Færd Is that a serious question, or is it supposed to mean something?

Færd

@Mazura No, I'm a learner. I want to know.

Mazura

"Don't mention it." "You're welcome." The same things you always say whenever someone says thank you.

Færd

@Mazura Thanks. I thought there's a special response after someone has thanked you for a meal. Because there are special 'offering terms' for meals, like Enjoy your meal! and Bon appetite!

Mazura

If there is, it's likely a loanword from French. Nothing's coming to mind.

@Færd - I don't know where the stars came from, but I'd bet money this conversation is the reason I got a DV on it.

Færd

@Mazura What's a DV?

Mazura

01:55

Down vote.

Færd

Huh.

Mazura

At SE (Stack Exchange) you either get "up votes" or "down votes".

Færd

I'd give you all my reps if I could, to console you.

Because they're not that important. :)

Mazura

13

Q: How should I vote?

This is the current FAQ for voting on Stack Exchange (long-windily mentioning what votes do and their importance, having little to say about how to conduct one's own voting habits. Plenty of questions broach the subject of voting without leaving a comment, when you should vote, how you should vot...

How you use them is very important to me.

Færd

Yes. But how people use them on me is not that much.

Mazura

01:58

LOL... sry ;)

Færd

I'm not very good at abbreviations, you know!

Mazura

( Laughing Out Loud ) You have a fair amount of rep, more than the average.

Færd

I meant sry.

Mazura

sry = sorry

Færd

Ah, okay!

Mazura

02:02

"How you use them is very important to me." - Rather, that you are consistent (!!!), on however you use them.

Færd

@Mazura A great chunk of that I got by chance. Posting a silly answer and getting a sh*tload of reps.

Mazura

I like that answer. I couldn't have said it better myself.

I'd upvote it, but I haven't read the rest of the answers, and to do so without having done so, would be inconsistent (!!!). (for me personally)

Færd

@Mazura Wow you read all the page before voting anything?

Mazura

At the very least I skim it. That's where formatting will get you the win (from me).

Færd

Very patient you are.

Mazura

02:06

If I start to vote before I've read them all, then I feel I must read them all in full.

Færd

heh.

I guess I read the specific answer I want to vote in full. The rest of them, maybe.

Mazura

Voting on SE is ... erratic at best. I try not to be skewed by scores.

Try.

Færd

Just look how many good postings there are on SE with so few votes.

Mazura

Try posting at DiY sometime ;) It's nearly a thankless job, as far as rep goes.

But that's my 'easy' stack.

Færd

My relatively better posts have fewer upvotes.

looks up DiY

Mazura

02:11

The better posts aren't understood by the masses and they don't read or vote on that kind of stuff.

Mazura, Chicago

7.1k 1 6 36

electrical plumbing hvac furnace bathroom repair tile

Færd

I can be happy if there's one person I've helped with my answer. Whether I'm thanked or not.

Mazura

You'll notice that I have the Tenacious badge at DiY: "Zero score accepted answers: more than 5 and 20% of total."

Each of those have one "thanks", from the OP.

Who couldn't even upvote LOL

Færd

Haha!

Mazura

I just like being right. Imaginary internet points are secondary. A very close second:

11

A: What do you call someone who is addicted to a Q&A website?

New and Improved; Made-Up Definitions: Altruistic Vampire -one who subsists on the dopamine released when they help another; for whatever personal motivation: an addict of altruism; someone addicted to answering questions online. -Similar and often found in conjunction, though not to be confu...

Færd

@Mazura It's natural. I have a bit of that too. But you won't be at ease if you care too much about other's opinion about you.

Actually, you will be very uneasy.

Mazura

02:26

The whole discussion above is about SE policy. I've never met another human being who could care less than I do about what others think (about myself).

Færd

I see.

Mazura

Being wrong or right is my main concern.

I upvote if its "useful" (at all: in any way, shape, or form). I only DV if it's wrong.

I am known to be guilty of voting to order, though.

Færd

@Mazura I don't think a public Q&A site will ever be able to fix that hole. Public opinion correlates poorly with something being right or wrong.

Mazura

We try our best. The slogan for SE should be: Just the facts ma'am. Just the facts.

Færd

heh.

@Mazura To sort answers?

@Mazura BTW, our virtual cares are not very far from our actual cares.

And I gotta run. o/

Mazura

03:22

@Færd Yep. I explained it here in my answer And in a comment:

Self-defined, voting to order is using DVs to rearrange the order of the results, regardless of if any answer is useful (which is nearly 75% of my up-vote criteria. The rest is formatting and trite other reasons) and a it becomes a war when users bandwagon over it. "Not that answer. THIS answer."

What astounds me is that some people think, that people don't do this. I have, not only my suspicions that I've seen it happen in real time, but have done so myself in the past.

Mitch

@Mazura It was like @Cerberus was reading my mind. I wasn't particularly replying meaningfully to you but what you said gave me a chance to repeat a funny proverb.

It's making fun of people (namely everybody) who, despite even being well intentioned, have hard set beliefs (their opinions). We all know that reality is often different from opinions, and that facts represent reality better than (biased) opinion. So it's funny to say that you shouldn't let actual reality get in the way/change your beliefs even when those beliefs don't match reality.

Ha ha ha.

Mazura

@Mitch - Heh. I should leave that as a comment on my answer.

Mitch

@Mazura You are not astounded because you are doing it yourself. You think you are like others and so expect others to do it too.

Mazura

True, but the word naive comes to mind.

I put nothing past the capabilities of any random human.

Murphy's law and all that. If it can, it will, and you can rest assured that it has.

Mitch

On the other hand, with respect to this one thing, such voting behavior is very much orthogonal to most peoples expectations. You are being capricious, or gaming the system, or some other subversion of the intended process. Also, There is absolutely no way of knowing why anybody votes a particular way here, so I don't see how you can say that others follow your same behavior.

@Mazura It's pretty weird behavior.

Mazura

03:35

Yeah, after I posted on that "Why am I getting DVs" meta, I realized I was responding to the title, which is unanswerable.

Which is what the answer I upvoted says.

@Mitch Mine or "VT order'ers". Or both? ;)

Mitch

I'm confused. I thought we were talking about one behavior of yours , voting in order to get an arbitrary order of questions.

Mazura

It just one possible way/reason why you can get a DV. From which, from first hand experience, I can tell you it has happened before.

I don't use DVs to do it anymore.

Mitch

Because you've done it right, not because you somehow magically know that others have done it to you. People see most in others what they see in themselves.

Saying 'it has happened before' is a weird thing to say if it was actually you who did it.

Mazura

I'm not trying to quantify it; merely to show precedence.

What I can quantify, are the two upvotes on it ;)

Mitch

quantify what to show precedence?

Very confusing

This is a fascinating discussion but sadly for me, my time zone must be very different from yours and I should go to bed.

Sorry to cut the conversation short

Mazura

03:43

I am guilty of VTO. Therefore VTO at least has existed.

We'll pick it up later I'm sure. Cya

Mitch

logically, 'some VTO behavior has occurred'. but one shouldn't draw from that logical statement that it happens all the time. THere's been only one instance of it.

later

Mazura

Don't let the facts hit you on the way out... :P

My 3 star comment has more upvotes than my answer. That sounds about right for SE voting ;)

Cerberus

@Mitch We've known each other for so long...

Færd

04:22

universe:

> from unus "one" (see one) + versus, past participle of vertere "to turn" (see versus)

Lawrence

@Mazura In this context, I'd day source = original document; citation = reference = enough information to find the source; attribution = crediting the author.

Færd

What does it have to do with to turn? The fact that the the universe turns around the Earth?

Mazura

@Færd Turn in that context means become.

Færd

@Mazura It's not very contextual.

> versus ... from Old Church Slavonic vrŭteti "to turn, roll,"

Mazura

@Lawrence Yes. Thank you. Attribution is silly IMO.

Quite pedantic I might say.

Overly so.

@Færd Versus: Old English weorðan "to become"

Færd

04:27

@Mazura Well, to become is also mentioned somewhere in the etymology of versus, but I'm not sure.

Mazura

A common idiom is all rolled into one.

Færd

Hmm.

Mazura

The universe is a place. The cosmos is that, and everything in it, IMO.

It's also one of my favorite documentaries (the original Cosmos, by Carl Sagan).

Færd

@Mazura Your idea seems to be better than mine.

Mazura

Don't forget, that in the 12c, the sun still revolved around the earth ;)

Færd

04:35

That's what I thought the etymology of universe has something to do with.

@Mazura It still does: time.com/7809/1-in-4-americans-thinks-sun-orbits-earth

Mazura

Actually, they share the task. I forget what it's called.

Gravitational center?

Something like that....

Færd

They revolve around their center of mass.

@Mazura That's something else.

Mazura

I'll go with that.

Færd

Well, the center of mass coordinates makes things easy in a two body system. For a many-body system (like the solar system) things are awfully complex. For one thing, they don't go round their center of mass.

Mazura

I'm a big fan of orbital resonance being the cause of the late heavy bombardment.

Færd

04:42

I'm ignorant about that. Gotta look it up some time.

Mazura

The resonance between Jupiter and Saturn throwing asteroids at us.

Færd

Ha.

Mazura

Harmonic resonance*

Færd

@Mazura May they send one for you some time then!

Mazura

I've talked about it here but there's another I'm trying to find.

I watch too many documentaries ;)

Færd

04:47

I like to watch the sky.

I used to get good grades in cosmology, but that's years back.

Mazura

Cosmology was a class? In college or?

Færd

College.

Mazura

I was about to be very jealous of your remedial classes ;)

I'm off to shoot at some pixels. Have a good one.

Færd

Bye. o/

tchrist

@Mazura For what ill to remedy?

Færd

04:52

Beats me.

tchrist

Remedial classes are those given to underachievers to remedy holes in their education.

Mazura

Er, what's the word I'm thinking of that sound like that, that means grammar school?

Or am I totally off base here?

tchrist

Hard to discount the second possibility :)

Mazura

LOL

tchrist

Primary school?

Grade school?

Færd

04:55

@tchrist You're staying up late, I see!

tchrist

Remedial classes are for kids who aren't performing at their nominal grade level.

I took a two-hour nap. And I'm in bed.

Færd

Chatting instead of counting sheep is not a bad idea.

tchrist

But yes, I have to be at work in eight hours.

Mazura

Can you not say that anything below college level is (a) remedial (study) ?

Or that you shouldn't, unless they are (technically) college level.

Either way - Pixels must die! PEACE.

Lawrence

07:02

@Mazura You're welcome.

@Mazura In academic and creative circles, attribution is akin to payment and many consider lack of attribution a form of theft.

Mazura

08:37

@Lawrence I don't believe in IP but don't get me started on that.

user193661

09:39

My question for John is "What do I do?"

Is that correct grammar for the quote?

crl

If I call a library 'bareUI', will it sound like a nudist library or a just like a simple minimalist library?

user193661

internal quotes get single quotes?

My question for John is 'What do I do?'

crl

10:19

you mean quotes inside a quote?

Lawrence

10:41

@Mazura Although belief is not required in that case, it does on occasion help to make sense of ensuing consequences.

Matt E. Эллен

10:51

@snailplane I'm sure it's all legal, I just don't like it. I know Google isn't a dictionary, so I'd like to know where they're copy pasting from.

Matt E. Эллен

11:11

> I am looking for an exact opposite phrase for as early as possible.

as late as impossible

or

not as not early not as not possible

Lawrence

11:54

Good ol' "What's the opposite of a multivariate thing?".

Kit Z. Fox

x = y

Lawrence

Answer: it depends on where you place your mirror.

Kit Z. Fox

No, it must be orthogonal to all the things.

*because I said so.

Lawrence

Whoops. My messages got split by ze fox. :)

Hello Ms Fox.

Færd

@MattE.Эллен spins head

Lawrence

11:59

@Færd He's just messing around, throwing nots around as much as possible.

Kit Z. Fox

not (as early as possible)

There. fixed it.

Now you just need to figure out the order of operations.

Lawrence

@MattE.Эллен Actually, the contemporary opposite would be "As early as possible. Not!"

Kit Z. Fox

@Lawrence That's about two decades old.

Lawrence

@KitZ.Fox :)

Færd

Thought so. Just wasn't sure about not as .. not as.

Lawrence

12:00

@KitZ.Fox Yes, well, contemporary may be somewhat dated, then.

What do people say these days for that?

Kit Z. Fox

And good morning.

@Lawrence I believe it's eye roll, scoff, look at Instagram

Lawrence

Ah, reversion to non-verbal communication.

The eye roll in particular seems quite adaptable to different situations.

Kit Z. Fox

Yeah. rolls eyes

Wow. Amazing.

I think I better go have breakfast now.

Lawrence

Ok, see you around.

Færd

Not as not early as not possible actually works.

Matt E. Эллен

13:03

@KitZ.Fox good factorising!

Kit Z. Fox

Thanks.

I had a two-egg omelet with spinach, feta, cheddar, and salsa.

And coffee.

And I want more coffee.

Matt E. Эллен

that's problem with coffee

so I've heard

Lawrence

@KitZ.Fox Hmm, just a thought about your recent chat about shortness of breath after exercise - an article on coffee and shortness of breath.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Please vote to close: Peeving disguised as a question english.stackexchange.com/questions/325145/…

Kit Z. Fox

@Lawrence Yes. Thank you.

@Mr.ShinyandNew安宇 Here's my helpful contribution:

All gas isn't unleaded. — Kit Z. Fox ♦ 30 secs ago

@Lawrence I had considered it. It's just that I've been gradually reducing my coffee intake since I turned 30, and I don't want to quit drinking it entirely.

Part of that is this stupid middle-age thing.

Mitch

13:24

Just heard on the BBC "piles of rotting flesh"

The Sex Pistols revolution has succeeded

@KitZ.Fox You don't want to skip that stage

Kit Z. Fox

I'm not taking it as well as I thought I would.

tchrist

@KitZ.Fox Few of us do.

Kit Z. Fox

Interesting article about financial hardship.

Mitch

Drink tea. The label says it has twice as much caffeine as coffee, but it's really just extra dirty water.

Kit Z. Fox

> For the average married mother of small children, it is often cheaper to stay home - even if she would prefer to be in the workforce.

> When they attempt to return to the workforce, their years at home are held against them, considered a "blank spot" on the resume - a blank spot with a reason so obvious and laudable and often involuntary that it is sick we deride it as "choice".

Mitch

13:37

@KitZ.Fox more importantly "a return to "natural living" much like the rise of ... gardening (cannot afford fresh produce)." is a LIE. Gardening is very expensive to set up and labor intensive. A working person cannot do all that!

But all the rest, yes.

But that article is just a 'redo' of the NYT op-ed.

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch A criticism of it, I think.

Mitch

But I think they're right, the US is exceptional again in developed nations in the burdens it places on individuals. Need better child care options (long parental leave, more/cheaper day care).

@KitZ.Fox I haven't found the NYT thing yet

Kit Z. Fox

I can't believe how high our infant mortality rate is.

@Mitch nytimes.com/2013/08/11/magazine/…

Mitch

The difficulty with opinions is that it's hard to see the stats behind them. their anecdotes are intended to be typical, but you have no idea

Kit Z. Fox

Yeah.

Mitch

13:45

also, single parenting is pretty tough.

Kit Z. Fox

Also, I found the lead woman in the NYT oped to be annoying.

@Mitch Right. That's the point. It's not a choice.

Mitch

not to say that sticking with a jerk is the better choice.

Kit Z. Fox

"This would be so much easier if you didn't have a job." <-- should have told the husband to quit his then.

Of course, that's the arrangement I have, but my husband still works part-time.

Mitch

floating around in the back of my mind is I feel like I saw something recently where Sheryl Sandberg recanted (?) her 'Lean In' strategy. I don't know what that really means though.

Kit Z. Fox

I read something like that too.

Mitch

13:47

@KitZ.Fox There are choices, but just none very palatable.

Kit Z. Fox

Specifically about single mothers, iirc.

Oh right. Because her husband died.

So now she's a single mom.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox ?? really?

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch vox.com/2016/5/9/11640052/…

Yeah. That's the one I saw, because I thought the picture was incongruent with the title.

Mitch

But then as CEO of a bajillion dollar company she surely can have staff deal with difficulties. when you're rich, you do have lots of choices.

Kit Z. Fox

> Today, almost 30 percent of families with children are headed by a single parent, and 84 percent of those are led by a single mother.

@Mitch Can you imagine the hit to the income? We're well-off, and my husband works part-time, and we couldn't take losing either income.

And we live relatively conservatively.

Mitch

13:51

right

who are these people who buy new cars?

Kit Z. Fox

Right? I've almost paid off my 2007 Civic.

That I bought four years ago.

Mitch

Those last a long time so it's a good bet

I think

I've heard

I think I've heard

Kit Z. Fox

The majority of minimum wage earners are women as well.

So basically women get shafted across the board.

user208178

hello @KitZ.Fox @Mitch!

Mitch

hey!

Kit Z. Fox

13:55

More likely to have dependents, more likely to have less income, more likely to get harassed on the street, more likely to be de-humanized by presidential candidates.

@VitaminC Hi.

But whatever. We owe it to our dates to put out, amirite?

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox white males are oppressed, too, by not having anything to be oppressed by.

blaming the victim of victimlessness

@KitZ.Fox hahaha... gulps

Kit Z. Fox

I know. It's really hard to manage all that money while not returning the phone calls of the women you've knocked up. I should have more sympathy.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox is that how it works? Maybe I should have worn more rolexes?

Kit Z. Fox

@Mitch I'm getting feisty. Again. I should lay off.

Mitch

@KitZ.Fox I'm riling things up. I didn't realize my 'middle east' question would be like that. Earthers are so sensitive.

Here's another one:

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…