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16:00
I, for one, am too tired of considering close votes.
You're not too tired of mentioning it, though. :P
I was just commenting on the discussion above.
Mar 26 at 22:49, by RegDwight
@Cerberus But to answer your question: if you think that it is an obvious dupe and should be closed as such, then vote to close. I know from your previous comments that you sometimes fear it might be some kind of rocket science, but it really isn't.
Or do you enjoy talking about rules and interpretations?
And I am just commenting that closing questions is still rocket surgery to you.
16:01
It is.
But of the most boring and unproductive kind.
Bad questions annoy me much less.
You are free to get annoyed by whatever you please at your own leisure.
Thanks!
That's what I'm doing.
You're welcome. Mail me the czech.
16:04
The who?
Jez
Jez
that's a bit Kawny
@Cerberus I don't think they had a question mark in their name.
Then they were wrong.
They should have posted a question here first.
@Jez Corny?
I wasn't thinking of that band when I said that.
The moment Pete Townshend joins ELU to post a question, my job here is done.
Who?
16:07
The who.
Ah.
My first encounter with Robusto, in case anyone's interested:
Peter Dennis Blandford ('Pete') Townshend (Chiswick, Londen, 19 mei 1945) is een Engelse rockgitarist, -zanger, -songwriter en -componist die vooral bekend is door zijn rol als gitarist en primaire songwriter van de Britse rockband The Who. De carrière van Pete Townshend met The Who beslaat een periode van meer dan veertig jaar, waarin deze uitgroeide tot een van de grootste en invloedrijkste rock-'n-rollbands ter wereld. Townshend schreef in zijn rol als primaire songwriter meer dan honderd nummers voor de elf studioalbums die The Who maakte, bijvoorbeeld de grootste delen van de roc...
What language is that?
Sounds made-up.
@Cerberus Lol you were such a greenhorn back then.
Shut up!
So was @Rob.
Jez
Jez
16:10
@Cerberus No, only the double version of it is.
Thank you.
Reg and Rob will disagree, though.
I like how it says "die bekend is door zijn rol".
Totally made up.
Huh?
What?
Every child will tell you that die is weiblich while sein is männlich.
This language was obviously invented by an ananas.
But it doesn't say "sein", now, does it?
16:18
Sorry, I used the phonetic spelling.
@Cerberus — Horndog != greenhorn.
@RegDwightѬſ道 Then you're speaking in a very lower-class accent that I could not possibly understand.
@Cerberus Look, I just actually asked every child, and they confimed. So you lose.
@Robusto Oh, too bad for you.
@RegDwightѬſ道 What's that? I hear some perverted mumblings.
@Cerberus Perversion is in the eye of the beholder.
Jez
Jez
16:20
i have to win the award for most tedious workday today.
Ehh I'd rather you keep that in your own eyes, thank you. I am not participating in your dirty games.
@Jez Sorry, that one's taken by @Kit.
Jez
Jez
probably about 30 mins of work, 7.5 hours of sitting
awards second prize to Jez
Jez
Jez
kit is probably having sexual relations
16:21
D'oh.
Well, I should call my friend back. Excuse me.
By the way, 3I is next below me.
@RegDwightѬſ道 — You misspelled orifice.
He will soon overtake me.
@Robusto I never.
Then it's definitely time to retire.
@Cerberus — I don't want to live in a world where 3I is considered by some to be superior to @Cerberus by any measure.
16:22
Thanks!
@Cerberus Twisted logic is twisted. He is only next below you because you have retired already.
Sort of... but still.
If only we had a worthy younger generation.
Sorry to start a rant but some answers are really starting to tick me off. It would really be nice if people who answered actually -knew- something rather than guessing some extrapolation from a web search:
2
Q: Why is the phrase "Never again" associated with the Holocaust?

WarrickI often hear or read the phrase "Never again" used as a reference to the Holocaust. It is the motto of the Jewish Defense League and in the title of at least one historical account of the Holocaust. For what it's worth, the same reference was made in a South African political cartoon about the Is...

(totally aside from the off-topic nature of course)
Jez
Jez
16:26
hahaha, another 3I criticism
? 3I?
Mitch's not in on the crazy abbrevs.
@Mitch — This is why that question should be closed.
Perhaps we should add 3I to the list of common abbreviations over on our meta.
Thursagen = 3I
16:27
sorry, I see the discussino has already gone way past me on '3I'
@Mitch I thought it came from German? I mainly know the phrase as "Nie Wieder".
@Mitch Is a "discussino" a little Italian discussion?
Well, Wikipedia can be really helpful:
"Nie wieder" (eng. Never again) is a hip hop song by Bushido, and the second single from his second album Electro Ghetto. Infos Bushido sings in this song about his past, when he was a child and teenager. I never went everyday to school, because he was not in the mood and we want to get a Rapstar. At the last part he talks about his "upcoming to a star".
A multilingual question would be great (if it were asked that way) but of course still inappropriate to the site.
@Cerberus Duh, obviously it comes from James Bond. Roger Moore coined it in a brainstorming session with Eva Green.
16:28
yes...a very small discussion.
@RegDwightѬſ道 Green or Brown?
@Cerberus — Note that "Nie wieder" anagrams to die Wiener.
Everbrown is not in my dictionary. Evergreen is.
@Robusto So it's Hitler all over again.
@Robusto I'm too lazy to check, but I trust in your experience with these things.
@Cerberus Isn't that "nie wieder Faschismus"
16:29
@RegDwightѬſ道 — Isn't it always?
@z7sgѪ I'm not sure about the context.
@RegDwightѬſ道 *Braun
@Mitch So what is your take on the origin of "Never Again"?
@Cerberus It could apply to any number of things of course, I just think of that as the big one.
@Cerberus Correct yourself, buddy.
2 mins ago, by Cerberus
@RegDwightѬſ道 Green or Brown?
and for the record....despite the ...um... difficulties with 3I, the questions are um as they say in the vernacular... piss poor. Nominally on topic, but generally crap.
You can't write Brown, and have me reply to that, and then pretend that I misspelled it.
16:32
@z7sgѪ In Dutch, "Nie Wieder" is generally used to refer to anything related to WWII, including fascism and the holocaust.
@Cerberus: that's how they say it Dutch?
argh... -in- Dutch?
@Cerberus In any language I am vaguely familiar with it just means what it means.
@Mitch We use the German expression in Dutch.
It would be "nooit weer/meer" in Dutch.
But that sounds stupid.
I could eat a burger at McDoof and say "nie wieder".
@RegDwight: learn from the mistakes of others
16:33
@RegDwightѬſ道 Things never mean what they mean below sea level.
In fact I am pretty certain I have, as have many others.
Why not as well ask "Why did the NKVD tell Soviet troops 'Not one step back' during WWII?" That would be as legitimate a question for ELU as the "Never Again" one.
@Robusto What if the question wants to know the origin of the phrase?
@Cerberus — Then, and excuse me for raising my voice, but IT DID NOT ORIGINATE IN ENGLISH.
@Ronusto: it could be reworded appropriately to "WHere did the English phrase 'never again' come from? Is it a loan translation?"
16:35
@Cerberus Hehe Dutch sounding stupid? Never!
@Robusto But it is still English, so its origin would be interesting and relevant for English?
@Robusto The phrase certainly existed before it was used in that context... the question is about the context not the phrase therefore it's off-topic.
Somewhere, poor unfortunate @Ronusto is getting pinged. I, however, remain completely oblivious to Mitch's request.
@z7sgѪ Certainly you mean "Hehe Dutch sounding stupid? Never again!"
@Ronusto!!!
16:36
@Robust: gah.
Stop pinging Ron.
@z7sgѪ Only when directly translating other stuff! But we usually don't do that, we just use the foreign words.
@Cerberus — Don't make me hurt you.
@Cerberus Yeah, like ananas.
Aug 4 at 19:18, by RegDwight Ѭſ道
Ananas ananas Ananas ananas ananas ananas Ananas ananas.
@Robusto Ehh would you rather we translated all English expressions? I don't think you realize what you're asking.
@RegDwightѬſ道 Yes, like that.
16:37
@Cerberus Let's face it, all Dutch people have at least a working knowledge of English so you might as well stop being cutesy and just switch for good.
@Cerberus Now what's with that usage of "rather" as a verb? You want to wake up the prescriptivist in me?
You do that for the second time in just an hour.
@RegDwightѬſ道 Let's all sing the pineapple song:
@z7sgѪ Shut up! Our language rules! That's why you borrowed all your nautical terms from us.
@Robusto Not that again.
@RegDwightѬſ道 Yes, just for you.
16:39
@RegDwightѬſ道 You know very well that "would" means volition there, not a modal verb.
@Cerberus That's the usual excuse, yes. A very poor one.
Poor ≠ awesome.
@Cerberus Sorry, you admitted that you borrowed them from Russians.
in War Metal Tyrant, Jul 31 at 21:20, by Cerberus
Oh, I had no idea we got those form you! I am thankful that Peter the Great brought them to Holland.
@Cerberus Yep, we have already incorporated all your best words. That's how English works.
@Cerberus — I think @Reg is referring to it in the sense of "having a wouldy" ...
16:40
@RegDwightѬſ道 But then they became ours, and then the English stole them, the bastards.
@z7sgѪ There is no such language. All there is is this hotch-potch of Norse, Dutch, German, Latin, French, and Greek.
I actually do have a Woody. Several, in fact.
@RegDwightѬſ道 — Note that Wouldy, despite the fact that he is an inanimate toy, always acts of his own volition.
Haha.
16:42
@Robusto You can act of your own volition when you take it from my cold dead hand.
@Cerberus — I am grateful to the Dutch. Every time I use nutmeg.
Please omit me from your amorous fantasies.
@RegDwightѬſ道 — If your hand is cold and dead I think you're doing it wrong. Did you try lube?
@Robusto Oh, did we give that to you too?
Well, I picked a bad time to wander back in
16:43
@Cerberus We always do. Now please stop asking us to do stuff for you we already do for ourselves.
@Cerberus — Nutmeg, tulips, and venereal disease. Yes.
@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yeah, can you please do something about it?
@Robusto I am sorry, did you just suggest that I use lube on your own volition?
@RegDwightѬſ道 You're not speaking for Rob.
@MrShinyandNew安宇 Is there a good time to wander in here?
16:44
@RegDwightѬſ道 — No. On your own Wouldy.
Repost, since you guys were talking about it earlier: knockknockjoke.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/…
@MrShinyandNew安宇 How so? We have Woodys!
@Robusto Disease, really? Well, perhaps England should stop sending us its cohorts of drunken, Adidas-wearing drugs tourists.
@Robusto But it's the volition that's in the hand, not the wouldy.
16:44
@RegDwightѬſ道 ...which we are apparently supposed to use lube on. No, wait...
@Cerberus — They will when your red-light district stops servicing them.
@Rhŵdri Hey, you use lube on Woody, he can swing his arms faster.
@RegDwightѬſ道 — As always, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush ... uh, wait. Did that come out right?
@Robusto Nothing is worth two in Dubya.
@RegDwightѬſ道 — Your Wouldy is plastic, made of LEGO.
16:46
@Robusto Jealous much?
@RegDwightѬſ道 Arithmetic never was his strong point.
@Rhŵdri Then he should have tried floating-point arithmetics.
@RegDwightѬſ道 — I require no prosthetics, TYVM, no matter how high you build them.
@Robusto Not even this high? No? Really?
@Rhŵdri — Remind me what his strong point was?
16:47
He accomplished a mission. That was pretty strong.
@RegDwightѬſ道 — I don't need a snap-on, either.
i dont know why some ask math questions on ELU
4 hours ago, by Rhŵdri
@GraceNote They are worse than the slash writers. Really.
@BogdanLataianu At this point, I don't know why some still don't.
@RegDwightѬſ道 — You are confusing raising a sign with accomplishing a mission. They are two different things.
16:48
@Robusto You go tell that to him, buddy.
@Robusto Besides, the sign was because of an integer overflow.
"Integer overflown!"
@Rhŵdri — More like integer overthrow.
He overthrew a little integer in his mouth.
@RegDwightѬſ道 — It's integers going down, but fractions coming up.
16:50
@Robusto It's turtles all the way down.
@RegDwightѬſ道 — Turtles are integers too.
Turtles are integers three.
Remember that it's all the way down. That's at least three.
@Robusto But how can we stop servicing them? This is a free country, everyone may service whomever she wants.
@RegDwightѬſ道 That is altogether a bit too twee for my taste.
@Cerberus — Now you're just being sexist. Oh, and IIRC, Holland is decidedly not free. They charge you for everything. Even servicing.
@Cerberus Well, every journey starts with the first step. You stop servicing them, others might follow suit. :P
@Robusto And then they flood your ceiling.
16:53
@RegDwightѬſ道 I know how to spell don't
@Robusto Damn I can never do anything right. Can't use he, can't use she. Charge you for everything?
@Cerberus — Just admit that Dutch is a made-up language, is why you spend most of your time speaking English, and all will be forgiven.
@BogdanLataianu very interesting fact about yourself. Carry on.
@RegDwightѬſ道 but how I pay food? food so expensive i having trouble friend
@Cerberus Do it like trg. Buy vodka and complain about not buying food.
16:54
Why ever did you bring him up?
I never bring anyone up. I only bring everyone down.
I see.
@RegDwightѬſ道 — This conversation is going down ...
certainly you meant to quote Natalie Imbruglia, in which case it should be "this conversation has run dry".
I thought I was quoting Paris Hilton.
16:56
Does she even have any quotable material?
I mean, like, words?
@RegDwightѬſ道 — Uh, yeah, like totally. Duh!
Vewy well.
In that case I shall commute, and you go on quoting Paris.
Sounds like a win-win.
Laterz!
CYA. I'm out too. Lunch ho!
@Robusto We'll always have Paris. Worse luck.
Though I did find her webcasts during the last US presidential election quite funny.
17:22
A moment's silence for the honey bee I accidentally killed. It did sting me in the head though.
If you develop symptoms, consult a doctor
@MattEllenД I hope you cremated it.
@z7sgѪ I just threw it out the window after I combed it out of my hair
I'm sure it will get caught in one of the many fires in back gardens
@BogdanLataianu I've put TCP on the sting. I should bee fine
a honey bee sting isn't very painful, apparently
@RegDwightѬſ道 Great. Now I have that effin' Rick Astley song in my head.
I'll swap you for "The great pretender"
except now it's "The great forfender"
17:28
HA!
Are you sure you're not Californian?
Have you checked?
:D Thoroughly! I can't even do the accent
Do you like avocados though?
Do you self-tan?
Do you punctuate your sentences with "dude" and surf a lot?
The Schmidt Sting Pain Index (a.k.a. the Justin O. Schmidt Pain Index) is a pain scale rating the relative pain caused by different Hymenopteran stings. It is mainly the work of Justin O. Schmidt, an entomologist at the Carl Hayden Bee Research Center. Schmidt has published a number of papers on the subject and claims to have been stung by the majority of stinging Hymenoptera. His original paper in 1984 was an attempt to systematize and compare the hemolytic properties of insect venoms. The index contained in the paper started from 0 for stings that are completely ineffective against hu...
@KitΘδς No, no!, yes, no (sadly)
Is that a joke entry? "Hot and smoky, almost irreverent. Imagine W. C. Fields extinguishing a cigar on your tongue."
3.0 Red harvester ant "Bold and unrelenting. Somebody is using a drill to excavate your ingrown toenail."
17:36
@z7sgѪ I have heard of the index. I haven't read the article...
It's funny.
I enjoyed it.
hmmm, it could have been a sweat bee then
although its abdomen and head weren't green
Maybe it didn't actually sting you.
I pulled the sting from my head
17:39
Maybe it was trying to harvest the sweet nectar of your brain.
possibly, it has to be good for something!
Maybe it was a leg and not a stinger. :)
@MattEllenД There are no nerves in the head so you wouldn't feel it.
@z7sgѪ there are nerve endings though. you might be thinking of the brain
17:43
@z7sgѪ The scalp is heavily ennervated and vascularized. You would indeed feel it, and it might make you bleed like a sissy.
@z7sgѪ Lovely!
I don't think it penetrated that far, thankfully. Just scratched the surface
But I don't get why the index puts the common paper wasp at 3.0.
Seriously though, perhaps a reason you might not feel it is that hair got in the way and the toxins weren't pumped into you?
I mean, it's quite bearable.
Ouch, Matt got stung!?
17:45
By a honey bee.
Yikes.
They are kind of like the Canadian of bees.
@MattEllenД Yeah apparently they do some brain operations under local anaesthetic. The surgeon is chopping away in your brain and you don't feel a thing.
Nice.
"Ooops, pardon me." sting, rub gently for soothing effect "There now, stop threatening me, please."
17:45
Is there a scale of pain that compares insects with spiders?
Oh, and another question: how come the bright colours on some insects that are supposed to work like deterrents actually work, while many harmless insects mimic the same colours, like the yellow and black of a wasp?
Because the harmful insects never stopped being harmful?
Revolving doors hurt way worse than matchheads! This scale is terrible. I'm never believing Wikipedia again.
2
You mean like Batesian mimicry?
Batesian mimicry is a form of mimicry typified by a situation where a harmless species has evolved to imitate the warning signals of a harmful species directed at a common predator. It is named after the English naturalist Henry Walter Bates, after his work in the rainforests of Brazil. Batesian mimicry is the most commonly known and widely studied of mimicry complexes, such that the word mimicry is often treated as synonymous with Batesian mimicry. There are many other forms however, some very similar in principle, others far separated. Of note, it is often contrasted with Müllerian mi...
Which I always think of as "Bayesian mimicry" because of my background in logic.
@GraceNote But the system should be inflated soon enough, so that all insects bear those colours?
@KitΘδς Yes, like that.
@Cerberus Shall I point out all the problems with that argument?
17:50
If I were a harmless animal (...) I'd mimic some animal that wasn't!
@Cerberus It's confusion with a harmful species that's required. For example, there aren't all that many poisonous mantises, rendering mimicry of them rather ineffectual.
@aediaλ Wikipedia didn't come up with the scale. Schmidt did (maybe).
@aediaλ Not sure I agree with you there. Matchheads are really hot. Just letting one burn away your skin? OW!
@KitΘδς If you could enlighten me with a few words?
@KitΘδς But they die after they sting, right? Which is kind of sad.
17:51
@Cerberus Insects can't really choose their colors or mimicry.
@GraceNote But it is in the harmless insects' interest to mimic until the whole system becomes ineffectual. They do not care.
@aediaλ Anything tries to sting me, I kill it.
@z7sgѪ Sure, but aren't you terrified of revolving doors?
@Cerberus Mimicry ain't something you can just do
17:52
@KitΘδς What do you mean? I know how natural selection works, just simplifying things for efficiency.
@aediaλ Oh, yes, I think you are right. Wasps can sting more than once though, right?
@GraceNote I know.
@KitΘδς They certainly can!
@Cerberus You are over-simplifying though.
@aediaλ I'd like to know what that phobia is called.
I was once stung several times in my tongue and lips by a single wasp sitting under a leaf of lettuce.
@KitΘδς OK, then how?
17:53
Natural selection can only act upon what exists in the gene pool.
As well you know.
Blasted doors always trying to crush me to death and drag me in a circle. I don't like those Automatic CAUTION Doors much either, but at least they usually let go of my backpacks...
I can't evolve into a yellow and black apid unless I have yellow and black pigments in my gene pool.
Yes. But if this mimicking works, and you give it a few million years, soon the right colours should pop up through mutations and prevail?
@Cerberus Maybe, maybe not.
@Cerberus Ow! That sounds dreadful.
17:54
I should think God gave insects enough time...
Besides, a species poison and response to poison is subject to natural selection as well.
@aediaλ It was, I was 14 or so. But, well, that's how it works!
@KitΘδς Of course.
But ehm I'm late already, I must leave you, however much it pains me.
@Cerberus OK, but there is a nice summary of mimicry in Wikipedia if you are interested.
@KitΘδς If you have similar species, they might all already have similar genes for expressing things like colours. And so mimicking the colours of a poisonous relative is probably relatively easy.
We can talk about it later if you like.
17:58
@KitΘδς OK thanks! Will read.
An insect can only have a limited number of survival strategies, and there are lots of competing strategies to mimicry.
Later all!
Adieu
@z7sgѪ Me too. Interwebs are coming up emptyish save for some made up names like "orbitagoraphobia".
Bye, @Cerb!
@MrShinyandNew安宇 Yes, probably so.
I was perhaps a bit headstrong.

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