English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

KitFox

01:07

@GnomeSlice I am now.

Cerberus

@snailboat Ah OK, so that is a different issue.

No law's availability should be restricted in any way, nor any other legally binding text of any kind.

Bioshock Infinite for € 7,50
XCOM: Enemy Unknown for € 5
http://store.steampowered.com//sale/2kpublisherweekend2014

RegDwigнt

East Slavic languages, for example, use in in both cases. "In Tuesday in four o'clock". Why? There is no why. They just do. And at the same time, they use different prepositions where English uses just one. So you are married on your wife, but your wife is married behind you. Why? There is no why. Yes, you can try and come up with a justification, but any justification will be justification in hindsight. As soon as you look at a different language, you will have to admit your justification is completely made up. — RegDwigнt ♦ 3 mins ago

I keep repeating that like a mantra.

I should found a religion.

The First Church Of, By, and Between Prepositions.

In unrelated news, now that I'm back home, that's my current record, from yesterday.

Cerberus

01:23

Wow! Congrats.

RegDwigнt

I haven't been able to get there again at work today.

Cerberus

So you almost got to...whatever the next tile is.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus thank you. Beginner's luck.

Cerberus

Haha. Lies.

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus something something. That's the term you're looking for.

@Cerberus well no, apparently it really was.

Cerberus

01:24

Uhuh.

So you have just got home?

RegDwigнt

Sorta.

I was here earlier today, but then left again to visit a friend who came for a short visit from Teneriffa, where he's teaching at a German school.

It was fun. I'm drunk and drinking on.

Speaking of which, excuse me while I leave you...

Cerberus

Be excused.

Anonymous

@RegDwigнt I think most people agree it's arbitrary to some extent, although there are cognitive linguists trying to make some sense of them and come up with new ways to teach prepositions besides "just memorize them"

Anonymous

Sometimes they just seem inexplicable…

GnomeSlice

02:01

@KitFox How're things?

KitFox

Weird.

GnomeSlice

Is that good?

KitFox

indeterminate

GnomeSlice

=[

RegDwigнt

02:21

@snailboat well, they should totally go explain why I am married on my wife but she's married behind me. I'm being honest here, it actually applies to myself and I am actually waiting for an explanation.

You can figure out some general rule X for situation Y in language Z, but all things considered it's just a lost cause. Too many off-by-one situations, everywhere, all over the place.

KitFox

@GnomeSlice How are you?

@RegDwigнt All in the place.

RegDwigнt

Ceci n'est pas une place.

tchrist

What are you two doing up!?

RegDwigнt

I am one and I not doing up but down. Vodka is like that.

tchrist

But it’s biphasic.

KitFox

02:25

I just got off the phone with my brother.

RegDwigнt

Ceci n'est pas une phase.

TIL Kit has a bro.

KitFox

Two, in fact.

RegDwigнt

Or perhaps I learned it much earlier but the ethylalcohol has done its job at erasing.

KitFox

You probably know at least one of them.

RegDwigнt

@KitFox whoa gal hold the horses.

@KitFox hold more horses still pretty please.

I am busy here, don't you see.

tchrist

02:28

@KitFox Alcohols or bros?

RegDwigнt

Aug 2 at 10:00, by RegDwigнt

Ah, a cold Bitburger early in the morning, tis heaven.

Jeesiz Kryst, it really is the morning. Half past four.

tchrist

@Kit, I’ve pung you about something unsettling. We can talk later if you prefer. I’m kinda falling-over tired.

RegDwigнt

I must be off doing things.

KitFox

@tchrist Bros.

GnomeSlice

@KitFox I'm good, I guess.

I start my training for my new job next monday

I hope I can do the work

KitFox

02:40

You'll be great at security. You get to get paid for being belligerent.

Anonymous

I don't get paid when I belliger. :-(

Mitch

Think of it as a privilege. You get to be belligerent

also an honor

tchrist

@snailboat *beleaguer

Anonymous

03:09

@tchrist Oh, nice. I couldn't think of the actual verb :-)

Anonymous

Thank you!

KitFox

03:51

room topic changed to English Language & Usage: lions and tigers and bears (no tags)

GnomeSlice

Lions and tigers and bears, no tags!

@KitFox Do you think I'm belligerent?

KitFox

Not really.

GnomeSlice

Heh

skullpatrol

06:05

Cerberus

06:19

Haha nice.

skullpatrol

06:30

Thanks :-)

Matt Эллен

07:28

good morning

do we have a dupe of this question?

2

Q: "Share me" or "Share with me"?

I heard people saying: Can you please share me the slides? or Can you share me the note, etc.? I think it should be: Can you please share the slides with me? or Can you share the notes with me? which one is correct?

phrases

I feel like I have read something similar before

skullpatrol

would you like to share with us where?

:-)

/joke

Matt Эллен

8

Q: Which one is correct? "Explain me" or "Explain to me"?

Which of the following expressions is correct? -Explain me. -Explain to me. I know "Explain it to me" is correct, but I want to know which one of the above is valid.

verbs prepositions

I think that's what I was thinking of. not a dupe, though :(

skullpatrol

I have heard "explain me" toooo many times :(

"to" is such an important preposition

in spoken English

Matt Эллен

it gets used a lot

skullpatrol

imo

"to" is one of the top ones

Dare I say, the most important in spoken English?

Everyday language, of course :)

Hi @OliverSalzburg

Oliver Salzburg

07:45

@skullpatrol Hi

Robusto

12:07

@tchrist: So now I have a woodpecker hammering on my house. I looked up woodpeckers at allaboutbirds, but none of the pictures seem to look like the one I see, which is brown and maybe spotted with a puffy head and short, sharp beak. Any ideas? Is this really a woodpecker?

tchrist

13:31

@Robusto Is it a flicker?

Robusto

I dunno. Do they hammer on houses?

tchrist

Constantly.

And they are big, bigger than a robin.

Robusto

This is bigger than a robin. It's a gray, misty day here, so it's hard to delineate exactly the markings of the bird from 30 feet away.

tchrist

Probably a flicker.

If you are seeing just greyish tones instead of sharp black and white ones.

You might call it greyish brown or vice versa.

When it flies, it will flash red that was hidden.

Look up Northern Flicker, or Red-shafted Flicker.

Robusto

Haven't seen it fly. I tried shooting at it with a nerf gun, but the dart wouldn't go that high. It doesn't respond to shouting.

tchrist

13:36

I have Yellow-Shafted, but you wouldn’t.

Doesn’t respond to shouting, hm.

They tend to be aggressive but cagey.

Robusto

The pictures I see at allaboutbirds show smooth heads with long beaks. Do they puff up their neck feathers against the chill or damp?

tchrist

All birds do.

Wait, is this a pointy head?

Robusto

No, didn't look like it. But I didn't get a close-up look.

tchrist

I refuse to believe you have a Pileated without knowing it.

They look like woody woodpecker. They are crow-sized.

Robusto

This is not crow-sized.

tchrist

13:39

And are like the old joke: black and white and red all over.

Actually, just red-headed.

Robusto

It's a smallish bird. Larger than a robin, certainly larger than a sparrow.

tchrist

Ok, it could be a sapsucker.

There are a lot of them lately. They are not quite as big as a flicker.

And they can be a bit cryptic.

In the birder sense.

But sapsuckers aren’t known for home invasions. Flickers are.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

Which are the kind that are known for concrete-pole invasions, or metal transformer invasions?

tchrist

Flickers.

Robusto

The drumming sound of the northern flicker, heard at allaboutbirds, doesn't sound the same. Theirs sounds like a machine gun, mine sounds like a lazy carpenter.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:41

There was one of those near my kids' school the other day. banging away on a concrete pole.

tchrist

They really like to hammer on metal.

Can you see any red?

Robusto

No. It's gone away now for some reason.

tchrist

Yes, a flicker sounds like a jackhammer.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

hm, now I know what name to call it and sound all edumacated to the people around me.

tchrist

They attack my air-return on roof by spring, because the louder you bang, the machoer you are. It is an awful din.

There really are only a few large woodpeckers.

Most are medium sized.

Some are small.

People here have flicker houses puts up on all over.

Because we tend to have wooden siding.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

13:45

@tchrist Hm, I know some humans like that

tchrist

Woodpeckers: Pick a pecker, any pecker.

They almost all have cross-hatching.

But the red-headed and pileated, which are solid.

Robusto

Flicker houses? Are they like martin hotels?

tchrist

And acorn.

@Robusto Yeah.

Woodpecker numbers of certain species have changed incredibly in the last 50 years, even the last 20.

Red-headeds are way way way down. But sapsuckers are up.

You should only have maybe 3–4 possible species in your area.

The other large-ish one is the Hairy.

Flickers are also quite down in some areas, although not in mine, where they are plentiful to the point of annoyance.

It is a crime to harm any woodpecker. People are quite annoyed at learning this.

I mean, there is a law against it.

We only have 11 species of woodpecker total, by the way, and no area has more than half that.

Oh wait, maybe you have yellow-shafted and I have red-shafted.

They’re still northern flickers, though.

> All woodpeckers are protected under the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 as migratory insectivorous birds and are classified as non-game by the state.

> Two California woodpeckers (Gila woodpecker, Melanerpes uropygialis, and Gilded northern flicker, Colaptes auratus chrysoides) are California-listed endangered species and are offered greater protection.

You will not get the USFWS to issue a permit-to-kill on a flicker just because they are annoying you or making a home in your house.

> Generally there must be a good case to justify a permit and the permit process is time consuming. Control methods that do not harm the bird or its active nest are allowed except for the two endangered species. Those species cannot be harassed or bothered in any way. Physical exclusion, if installed before the endangered species is in the area, is allowed.

I have redwood siding. So they love my house. Most homes in my neighborhood are the same. They have made a hole under the gable at the top of my bedroom above my head. They sometimes raise families there. I’ve tried nailing a board over it during winter while they’re out and about and not raising chicks, but this never works. They drill through the board just for fun.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

14:08

-1

Q: discuss the logic with the terms here are

**Is it suitable to Say- "Greetings of the day" aroun 10pm- ** "Greetings of the day" ** when you meet your freiend or some1 you already know at the time of 10pm. ?if not why.. discuss the logic with the terms here are,, and what you use in terms of the same situaton.!!** know m...

single-word-requests expressions terminology greetings

Someone proposed an edit, which I approved. Then I'm told it needs approval from more people to be applied?! WTF, I can edit it myself, why do others need to vote on it?

tchrist

It is odd.

But true.

Only if you are a mod, or if you click improve, will it go through automatically.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

and strangely, while the edit is pending, I cannot edit it.

tchrist

Yes, very annoying, that.

So I have learned to use improve to make my vote binding.

Mr. Shiny and New 安宇

But then do you get the edit credit?

tchrist

Yes and no.

It counts as an edit for you, but you do not get +2.

And if you uncheck the box, neither do they.

But I just approved the edit.

Robusto

14:14

@tchrist I most definitely don't want to kill it. But I do want it to go away. From what I've been reading, there aren't any permanent solutions to scaring it away. I tried playing predator calls from my tablet from the bedroom window, but it didn't seem to care.

tchrist

Convincing woodpeckers to leave you alone is quite challenging.

Flicker management guidelines.

Adopting a sharpie might work. :)

RegDwigнt

14:42

My face hurts, but I can't stop facepalming myself.

Hey Shamsiddin: we avoid "what's your favorite"-type or opinion questions on EL&U (meaning this question will be closed shortly), but I bet you'd get some useful links on Reddit or Y! Answers. BTW, tip: "fiction" is a mass noun, meaning it's almost always used in the singular. "I'm seeking fiction..." (no s), "I read a lot of fiction" (ditto), "Can you recommend any good fiction novels?" (the s is on "novels"), etc. — Dan Bron 4 hours ago

@DanBron thank you for your comment, I've edited my question. — Shamsiddin Saidov 4 hours ago

Now go look at the edit.

tchrist

Ficciones

Ficciones is the most popular collection of short stories by Argentine writer and poet Jorge Luis Borges, often considered the best introduction to his work. Ficciones should not be confused with Labyrinths, although they have much in common. Labyrinths is a separate translation of Borges's material into English, by James E. Irby, that, like the translation into English of Ficciones, appeared in 1962. Together, these two translations led to much of Borges's worldwide fame in the 1960s. Several stories appear in both volumes. "The Approach to Al-Mu'tasim" appeared originally in History of Eternity...

RegDwigнt

@tchrist oh right, going by the name, the OP is clearly from Goods Airs.

tchrist

Notado.

Tomato.

RegDwigнt

You say notado, I say granado.

tchrist

Et il y en a qui dissent grenade.

RegDwigнt

14:47

В городе Понта Дельгада нет магазинов роскошных.

tchrist

Did you know that the pomegranate market was exploding in the United States?

Robusto

@tchrist There are several authors who make me wish I had learned Spanish. Borges is one.

I wonder if it's too late. Hmm, maybe a late-life project?

Cerberus

@tchrist Oh, well, we all know the role of the horti-cultural complex in America...

Robusto

I mean, besides English, Spanish seems an obvious second choice for a language for an American. The only reason I didn't do it was that only the dumb kids in high school took Spanish. Smart kids took German. Posers took French. Excuse me, poseurs.

tchrist

@Cerberus But you can’t make ’er think.

Cerberus

14:53

Um, what?

tchrist

@Robusto You were planning on dying soon? It doesn’t take that long. How’s your French, Italian, or Latin?

@Cerberus Miss Parker, kindly use the word horticulture in a sentence. Answer: You can lead a whore to culture but you can’t make her think.

RegDwigнt

I would say Spanish ain't hard at all. But as with everything, if you've been paying attention to Harold Ramis, it takes ten years to master.

Robusto

@tchrist I can read French and have one- to two-ply simple conversations in it. I studied Latin because I went to a Catholic prep school, but hated it because of that and have repressed much of it.

Most of the time I can read the Spanish I see as well. Signs and the like. But not Borges or Marquez.

tchrist

Then you will be able to get to Borges within a year.

Robusto

Seriously? Then it's worth a shot.

tchrist

14:56

You can’t just wait for the earth to complete its annual transit. I mean a year’s worth of work.

Robusto

I know that.

tchrist

Sure.

Robusto

When I studied Japanese I spent five years doing two to three hours a day. Every day, including holidays.

I had kanji flash cards I carried with me everywhere. And when I had an idle moment I'd whip them out and work on them.

Cerberus

@tchrist Ohh hah, I knew that one, but the last time I heard it was long ago.

tchrist

@Robusto It won’t take that long. At all.

Robusto

14:58

Any recommended course of study?

Cerberus

@tchrist Or less, depending on how much you read, how much time you spend on it.

Robusto

Ideally I'd like to be able to converse as well as read, but I'd settle for reading.

Cerberus

@tchrist On the other hand, we are old now, so it goes slower.

tchrist

Get a vacation home in Andalucía.

Cerberus

Or read some simple texts about topics that interest you, like Wikipaedia or newspaper articles.

tchrist

14:59

Or in the Balearic Isles.

Robusto

@tchrist Ha! Maybe when I retire.

Cerberus

Google all grammar issues.

Write down all words you don't know and look them up.

tchrist

If you want to speak American Spanish, try the Canaries.

Cerberus

If you are too lazy for that, just look them up.

Robusto

@Cerberus Of course. You're talking to a pro, doggy.

Cerberus

15:00

I know, I know.

I learned most when I just read a French/German novel that I liked.

The first pages are the hardest.

I know as little of Spanish as you do, or less. So I wouldn't start with a novel, but any text works, as long as it isn't boring.

Another thing that I like to do is take an aria from an opera, or just a popular song, and listen to it while looking at the libretto/lyrics.

tchrist

Newspapers and Wikipedia articles are good.

Robusto

Yeah. The trick is to know enough that you can read through a passage and try to get the sense of it without looking anything up, then come back and fill in the gaps. The important thing is to get the gist of what's being said. That's how you learn.

RegDwigнt

This.

tchrist

@Cerberus There aren’t many opera in Spanish.

Robusto

And when a word you don't know changes your entire understanding of that passage, you are more likely to remember it.

Cerberus

15:03

@Robusto Yes. But even if you can't do that yet, it works if you look things up too.

tchrist

Just obras mayores. :)

RegDwigнt

@Robusto word.

Cerberus

@tchrist That's why I know so little Spanish, then!

tchrist

Pero de canciones, no hay fin.

RegDwigнt

Carmen is totally in Spanish, just with a very very thick accent.

Kind of like what they do on Cuba.

tchrist

15:06

All its carmina are sickly axented.

Cerberus

At university, we were only supposed to read Dutch, English, French, German. But I remember being a snob in my first year and including a few footnotes referring to Spanish and Italian books, just for the heck of it, but also because it was fun. And academic prose in a Romance language is easy once you know English or another Romance language.

@RegDwigнt Huh, but wait, is there also a French version?

RegDwigнt

0

Q: Native English speaker looking to enhance writing skills

I'm a native English speaker. I already have relatively good writing skills but I want to refine my skills. When I say skills I'm referring to grammar, business writing and anything else which is related. I'm mostly looking for a book to read on the topic. I want to be an authoritative grammar na...

grammar writing resources

tchrist

heh

RegDwigнt

@Cerberus that was the joke, you dino.

Cerberus

Ohh.

You know you can always fool me because of my memory.

RegDwigнt

15:07

> I already have relatively good writing skills but I want to refine my skills.

Cerberus

QED.

RegDwigнt

Yeah.

"Start by using pronouns"?

Anyway, where's some prior question on this to close it as a dupe of.

Cerberus

Aww I was just close-voting it.

RegDwigнt

I actually went ahead and told him to look up pronouns.

The rest really is too vague. "Grammar, business writing and anything else which is related".

Sounds like a tag line for this room.

Cerberus

Hehe.

Please. Don't.

RegDwigнt

15:16

No, I'm just saying it's absurd.

Cerberus

No, don't make our room's description "Grammar, business writing and anything else which is related".

RegDwigнt

Are you stuck in a loop?

Cerberus

loops

RegDwigнt

ìf(1) {leave loop;}

Cerberus

bloops

RegDwigнt

15:18

Better.

skullpatrol

What kind of loop?

Cerberus

Maybe a feedback loop?

RegDwigнt

A fruit loop.

skullpatrol

Infinite loops are useful.

RegDwigнt

Useful loops are infinite.

skullpatrol

15:27

Sometimes :-)

One could describe counting by ones as an infinite loop.

GnomeSlice

Today's Listening | Electronic / Retro Dance / 80's (Mixsets day 22)

skullpatrol

Thanks pal @gnomeslice

RegDwigнt

Rick Shithouse. Now that's a good name.

GnomeSlice

Hah

Best name

The mix is awesome though

Also it's like 2 hours long.

skullpatrol

Remember Joey Shithead?

RegDwigнt

15:36

Sounds like Dire Straits kicked out Mark Knopfler in favor of Jean-Michel Jarre.

In short: exactly my type of music.

skullpatrol

Money's for nothing?

RegDwigнt

Contrary to popular belief, they wrote more than that one song.

In fact they had entire albums that were better than Brothers In Arms.

GnomeSlice

Yeah they wrote Sultans of Swing too

huehue

skullpatrol

That's their biggest hit.

GnomeSlice

►

always liked that one too

but listen to the mix

RegDwigнt

15:39

@GnomeSlice sorry, you already posted something that goes on for two and a half hours. FIFO.

They should sign up Shithouse for the next TRON.

skullpatrol

They have a very 80s type of sound.

GnomeSlice

He just put those tracks together, he didn't make any of them himself.

Tracklist is in the description though.

1, Penumbra - LA Dreams
2, Sunset - Dance With The Dead
3, Night Force - Power Glove
4, Break Point - Rain Sword
5, 2020 - Navigateur
6, Fade Away - FM Attack (with Julian Sanza)
7, Converter - Lost Years
8, White Tape - Amazing Police
9, Pretty Girl - Sunglasses Kid
10, Looking For Tracy Tzu - Carpenter Brut
11, Alpine Glow - STARFORCE
12, Afterglow - Cougar Synth
13, Psykotrash - Batch Sound
14, Streets In Motion - C-Jeff
15, Battle Graffi Kids - LA Dreams
16, Higher & Further - Tommy (featuring Perturbator)

Dance with the Dead <3

track - artist

RegDwigнt

@GnomeSlice good enough for me. Carter Burwell only puts things together, too. It still takes skill.

tchrist

What’s with the bloody phone number? Is this spam?

-4

A: E-mail signature etiquette with a "With regards," line

Anil Kumar Das Angul Mob:- 9658009496

RegDwigнt

It's worse: it's annoying.

> migrated from superuser.com

The things we have to put up with.

tchrist

15:56

Lord.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…