English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2011-07-26 (page 2 of 5)

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FallenAngelEyes

2:00 PM

I grew up on a lake in the US, but we had no canals around really, so I've no idea if there's a term for that. Maybe in Florida?

@FallenAngelEyes or just canal path

What is being asked here?

1

Q: expression "Shockingly enough"

Is the expression "shockingly enough" an understatement? I've heard of "oddly enough" and took it as "to some extend, it's odd", but the combination of "shockingly" and "enough" sounds like you are trying to convey an understatement, or that one would use in the negative, like: It's not shocki...

meaning-in-context expressions

@FallenAngelEyes Hah, no, there isn't! So you live between the historical centre and the university. Nice.

user19161

-1

A: How many new words per day to learn?

The correct answer is 4.3.... To two sig figs.

@JasperLoy Oh, cool! I am nothing, and I can't reach anything...

2:01 PM

I can't understand people who ask about expression X, and then provide an example that doesn't even use it.

user19161

That answer, 4.3, is unbelievable!!!

FallenAngelEyes

@RegDwight I... can't really tell.

"What does 'cheese' mean? For example, in the sentence 'I like asparagus'."

6

@RegDwight I think he wants to know if "shockingly enough" is used for understating something. I'm not sure if he means only or sometimes

@FallenAngelEyes Not exactly: a singel/cingel is a canal that goes around the edges of a city, its outermost canal.

FallenAngelEyes

2:03 PM

@Cerberus Ah, okay!

user19161

@RegDwight The cheese is hidden in the asparagus, or maybe the other way round.

It comes from Latin cingulum, "belt".

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus The more you know ~~~~*

Wait, I don't know if you would have ever seen those commercials...

You'd usually use something like `<body>side street", I'd think. For example, "canalside street"

@GraceNote yeah, that's a good one.

user19161

2:05 PM

@Cerberus Interesting, we were just talking about belt. The word to describe this is ... serendipitous.

@JasperLoy Then it should be tagged hidden-meaning and migrated to SongMeanings.SE.

FallenAngelEyes

@GraceNote Ah, yes. Like how there's a ton of "Lakeshore Drives" in the US.

@FallenAngelEyes Hmm no?

FallenAngelEyes

Sometimes I feel like in trying to grok both English and Dutch, I slightly lose my grasp on both. :P

@JasperLoy It proves that we are all cosmically connected.

@FallenAngelEyes Nah, just keep them strictly separate in your mind.

2:06 PM

@Cerberus no talking between the two of them!

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes Grok is a difficult word.

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus In the US in the early 90's, there were a bunch of PSA commercials that ended with this star with a rainbow trail going across the screen with the words "The More You Know"

lol @ ""What does 'cheese' mean? For example, in the sentence 'I like asparagus'.""

@MattEllen Indeed! Bad, English, bad.

@Cerberus hey! Dutch started it!

user19161

2:07 PM

@whoabackoff That is an interesting use of @.

@FallenAngelEyes Actually that does sound vaguely familiar.

FallenAngelEyes

@MattEllen No pointing fingers! Go stand in a corner.

user19161

@Cerberus Only if you had used the middle finger.

FallenAngelEyes

@JasperLoy One of my favorites though!

2:08 PM

@Cerberus English pouts can I at least take off the dunce's cap?

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus I've always found that difficult. When learning another language intensively, I then tend to think in it and use the most appropriate/fitting/succinct term for a situation, no matter which language it's in.

@Jasper it's what I'm laughing at

user19161

@whoabackoff Yes I know.

@JasperLoy I see and use "lol @" every day.

FallenAngelEyes

To use a horribly common example, I'd now be more likely to say that spending the evening with my family and friends was "gezellig" than just "fun."

2:10 PM

@MattEllen Fine. But you must take off the bells and pom-poms you attached when I wasn't looking.

user19161

@Cerberus I remember Kit waved her pom-poms a few days ago. Then she said bad timing.

@FallenAngelEyes Ah, yes, I know the feeling... but you should always at least be aware of when you're using it.

@FallenAngelEyes Hehe... well, that is sort of an over-used word in Dutch that could use some trimming, so...

@JasperLoy Probably wrong shirt.

BRB

@MattEllen "Ystradgynlais" = "valley of Cynlais"; "Rottingdean" = "Rotta's Valley". This is why English... oh...

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus I think it would be easier for me had I had formal lessons in Dutch when I began learning it, but I jumped in with just everyday speaking, which, oddly enough, does not work as well for me as it does with most people.

(I don't know, I turn my back for five seconds and you discuss Welsh, then pretend you didn't when I turn back.)

2:14 PM

@Rhodri nice try!

0

Q: Giving proponent idea in effective way | example

"The last but most important proponent is that ... [sentence]." I have used the phrase "The last but most important proponent is that" in an argumentation essay. However, it is incorrect due to the usage of "proponent". Therefore, I must change this. Can someone recommend anything?

word-choice synonyms homework

No close votes? Not even one?

Not even a snarky comment of "A thesaurus"?

Yeah, that's what I'm wondering.

Not even an answer copied from a thesaurus.

@RegDwight maybe we're waiting for the asker to come back an improve the question. (although I can't cast close votes)

That's backwards, though.

We will forget this question in a minute and move on.

So, close first, re-open upon improvement.

2:18 PM

@FallenAngelEyes Not as well as for most people—how so?

Off-topic? General reference?

user19161

I just found out that a pompom (AmE) is called a bobble (BrE).

@Rhodri I didn't see you!

@RegDwight I understand. It's not how I do things, I remember when I've been critical and go back and check (mostly)

@Rhodri (Though I would like to see you!)

FallenAngelEyes

2:18 PM

@Cerberus I have often heard that many people advise just going to a country and jumping in, learning as you go. The immersion factor seems to work well for people.

I'm in and out at the moment; I'm documenting code I just delivered before I forget how it works (again).

@GraceNote OT if you ask me. "Fix my text for me, according to criteria unspecified."

@RegDwight Sorry, I haven't been very voty of late.

@RegDwight Do you want me to throw a flag on it?

@Cerberus I'm also missing you in the other room.

2:19 PM

Ah, nevermind, it has been slammed

FallenAngelEyes

For me, I need to learn the grammar rules first. I like to fully understand the basics and building blocks and tenses, etc.

@GraceNote Oops...

user19161

Hello @aedia.

FallenAngelEyes

I feel like I can then start with a good foundation to expand upon. Like starting with a stack of bricks and then building it up as you go.

Total immersion for me feels like you've just started throwing the bricks at my head and I need to frantically catch them and put them in order while trying to build a decent foundation.

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes Try Carter and McCarthy grammar book.

FallenAngelEyes

2:20 PM

Just the way my brain works I guess.

@JasperLoy A bobble would be the small sort of pom-pom you find on a wooly hat rather than something you might give a cheerleader.

@FallenAngelEyes This I think definitely works for some people

Unless you liked giving cheerleaders bobble hats.

And you could find a cheerleader in the UK, of course.

@FallenAngelEyes Oh, I totally agree. Then you just need a grammar book!

Good morning!

Too much happening. Too little coffee. Brain failing.

2:21 PM

Part of it comes from the exposure to it helping with the learning, and for some it also probably comes from the whole thinking-on-your-toes aspect of it. Like throwing someone into a pool to learn swimming.

user19161

@Rhodri They could wear the hat and then shake their heads though!

@Rhodri You find them more and more at unis and schools, it's true

Morning, Aedia!

@aedia good afternoon

'lo, @aedia

2:22 PM

d'oh, tried to tab complete afternoon

FallenAngelEyes

@JasperLoy Well, my first language is English, so I don't think that one would help me much with Dutch. ;)

@MattEllen Tis so. I believe Cambridge is still resisting giving out half-blues for cheerleading, though.

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes Oh sorry, I thought you were talking about Eng.

user19161

@Rhodri What is a half-blue?

@MattEllen Wish I could tab complete my morning already.

FallenAngelEyes

2:24 PM

@Cerberus This did help somewhat, but I also learn better in a structured environment. The courses I took for Inburgering were very unstructured (and frankly, sloppy), and so my Dutch learning process sort of started in the middle with the jumping in, then going backwards for basics, then moving forwards for the more advanced stuff, and overall a kind of frustrating experience.

By the way, does anyone know why sports and university are so strongly connected in England and America, as opposed to the Continent?

@aedia one day psychic temporal teleportation will be possible

@Rhodri is here too! Hi :)

@Cerberus I don't understand what your question is asking.

user19161

@aedia You wouldn't want to do that. Then you might as well tab-complete your life.

FallenAngelEyes

2:24 PM

@Cerberus Oof, difficult question. I think that has to boil down to base cultural differences.

@JasperLoy It's an award for taking part in a (minor) sporting event against Oxford. Maybe you need to win, I don't know.

You get full blues for important sports like rugby, cricket or rowing.

@FallenAngelEyes Yeah that sucks a great deal! In can imagine Inburgering was just meant to make people able to buy bread and such, not fit for people with higher education from another country.

FallenAngelEyes

@Rhodri "full blues"?

Rowing. Rowing gets a full blue while cheerleading doesn't.

Like most university traditions, it's rather vague and informal.

2:26 PM

@GraceNote rowing is important. cheerleading is what you do to encourage the rowers

@GraceNote theboatrace.org

Rowing is serious between Oxford and Cambridge.

Oh. So it is more of a boating thing, just called rowing.

@GraceNote — I'd rather have a couple of hot cheerleaders than, say, both Winkelvoss brothers.

@GraceNote Please don't vote to close! (My university doesn't have any sports teams. We have various entirely separate sports clubs for students, but nothing tied to the university itself.)

I say that with tongue in cheek of course

2:26 PM

@Cerberus The "Continent" part is what throws me off, as it were.

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus Yeah, it was a prep course for Staatsexamen I, with subsidy from the government/city and all, but there was a problem with too many students and too few teachers. :/ 30 students, 2 teachers, and 3 of us, myself included, with a high level of Dutch. We often felt like our time was wasted there.

See, I was picturing a bunch of people sitting on a still bench and just... rowing.

@GraceNote Oh... perhaps it is only typically Dutch, then?

@GraceNote as in arguing?

@GraceNote That would be even more pointless than sitting in a boat rowing :-)

user19161

2:27 PM

@Robusto True, the Winkelvosses aren't very attractive.

@FallenAngelEyes That sucks. But the Staatsexamen itself is a fine exam. Or, wait, what does the I mean?

@Rhodri Now you understand my surprise.

@Cerberus Ooh, wait, now I think I get what you're saying.

Well, where I went, we have a big hockey thing going on but sports wasn't so much integrated into the college itself.

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus I as in level 1. There's also Staatsexamen II, which is what you need to pass if you want to go to college in the Netherlands.

Sports are a big thing in universities that I see, but it's more like an alternative path than it is a big focus.

FallenAngelEyes

Er, university.

2:29 PM

Sorta like signing up for the ROTC. Just a different route.

Every old university town as a big rowing club for students, they are the best clubs in the country. But the university would never grant you any privileges or whatever.

@FallenAngelEyes Ah, I see! The latter is equivalent to the high school Dutch exam.

FallenAngelEyes

@GraceNote That really depends on the university though. When I think of RPI, I don't think of "Dang, they have a great basketball team."

@GraceNote An alternative path towards what?

@FallenAngelEyes Yeah, because we have a great hockey team.

FallenAngelEyes

Hehe.

user19161

2:31 PM

@Cerberus I took the GCE A levels.

FallenAngelEyes

I didn't know they were big into hockey there.

@JasperLoy GCE?

user19161

@Cerberus General Certificate of Ed.

@Cerberus Like, an alternative path for how your college life time goes. Your standard student just takes 8-10 semesters of classes. Sports just kinda shakes it up a bit.

@FallenAngelEyes Our secondary mascot is a giant puck, as it were.

FallenAngelEyes

Syracuse University is obsessed with sports. The Orangemen/women are huge. It's crazy.

2:32 PM

(The primary being the albino squirrel, if my memory isn't bad)

FallenAngelEyes

@GraceNote That's hilarious. I blame your short distance to the border.

@GraceNote I was on one of my uni's Ultimate Frisbee teams in my final year (undergrad). It didn't count towards my degree though.

user19161

@MattEllen But it counted towards your fun.

@MattEllen I think sports usually goes more towards the scholarship end of things. But I don't know - most of my friends were ROTC, not sports.

@JasperLoy indeed, very much so :D

2:33 PM

And come on, the ROTC people get tanks. Who do you think I'd side with?

FallenAngelEyes

@GraceNote Yeah, lots and lots of scholarships.

Which, not being a sports person, I admittedly find a little baffling sometimes.

@GraceNote Reserve Officers Training Corps?

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes Really? I thought the focus would be on academic results.

@MattEllen Aye aye

FallenAngelEyes

@JasperLoy Yeeeah, hence my occasional bitter bewilderment. :P

2:34 PM

Though I think it's just "Officer".

@JasperLoy Ah OK, does that mean you are allowed to teach things?

@FallenAngelEyes Imagine my surprise when shortly before I graduated from my tech institute, that they announced they were spending a whole bunch of funding to build a sports village.

FallenAngelEyes

Keep in mind I'm also of the opinion that it's kind of ridiculous that famous sports players are paid in the hundreds of millions while our teachers, police officers, and firemen are paid crap in comparison.

user19161

@Cerberus No, it is just the cert you get before you go to uni.

FallenAngelEyes

@GraceNote A... what? At RPI?

2:35 PM

@GraceNote Ah, OK. I see. We have non-sporting clubs for that, though some people get all involved with sports clubs when at university.

@FallenAngelEyes Totally in agreement with that bafflement.

@FallenAngelEyes The only remnant of my academic history that remains in this country, yes.

@FallenAngelEyes So do I! That might be the difference: we don't have sports scholarships.

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes Well, this is an unfair world. I really think cleaners should be paid more for the job they do.

FallenAngelEyes

@GraceNote I... that... Whaaat.

(Both of my previous schools were destroyed in a tornado earlier this year!)

On the same day, no less.

FallenAngelEyes

2:37 PM

@GraceNote Holy crap, seriously?! I didn't hear about this.

But yes. RPI. Sports village

Wow, that sucks!!

user19161

@GraceNote No tornado here. But once it rained so heavily and thwe winds were so strong that all the flower pots and pictures on the walls of the school flew off and crashed to the ground.

user19161

It was very dramatic and fun!

@FallenAngelEyes June 1st, Tornado rips through Western Massachussetts.

Formed right in Springfield. I saw it out my office window.

FallenAngelEyes

2:38 PM

@GraceNote The fact that that is its legacy is... I have no words.

@GraceNote That's terrifying. Geez. :(

@FallenAngelEyes Imagine my fright when all the phone lines were down and I couldn't get a hold of my mother.

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus Ah, okay, I didn't realize that. Yeah, in the US, at certain universities who are very sports-centric, you can get a full scholarship based on your athletic ability.

@GraceNote @_@

@FallenAngelEyes I don't think there exists a proper word in any language to express what kind of feeling it produces.

Terror^2...

@JSBangs Hello Mr. Sbangs

2:39 PM

good morning everyone and @Matt

All thanks to our illustrious headmistress, Shirley Ann ACTION JACKSON.

'lo, @JSBangs

hey, is @Rhodri back?

FallenAngelEyes

Also, I mean no offense to any people here are who big into sports/athletics. I do respect ability and expertise and passion in any field, but the monetary disparity just... depresses me.

(Actually, she was a good headmistress, however strangely funds were appropriated. We just love saying Shirley Ann ACTION JACKSON when the opportunity arises)

@JSBangs @Rhodri was here a few minutes ago

user19161

2:40 PM

@FallenAngelEyes They should just make uni education free.

user19161

And healthcare too.

@JasperLoy i rather disagree with that. if anything, uni education should be more expensive, and fewer people should go

FallenAngelEyes

@JasperLoy For the standards I grew up with in America, it pretty much is here in the Netherlands to me.

8 years ago or so, my boyfriend paid something around... €1,500 a year to go to a technical university.

At Syracuse University, I wouldn't even be able to get a meal plan for one semester for that price.

@FallenAngelEyes clarify "technical university" in your country. is that like a technical school here in the states?

@JSBangs Still here. I'm relieving the boredom of documenting code. Also the frustration of discovering bugs in what I delivered yesterday.

2:43 PM

0

Q: well organized paragraph | meaning

What is the meaning of " well organized paragraph" in essay ? By using above words ; To begin with secondly finally Is organization of paragraph done ?

meaning essay paragraphs

user19161

@JSBangs That can mean MIT, or Caltech.

What's with all these pipes in titles as of late?

I always called those bars, mehself

@RegDwight it's the new way to sneak tags into titles

FallenAngelEyes

@JSBangs Delft Technical University in the Netherlands, specializing in science/engineering/etc., lots of research facilities, that type thing

2:44 PM

0

Q: Giving proponent idea in effective way | example

"The last but most important proponent is that ... [sentence]." I have used the phrase "The last but most important proponent is that" in an argumentation essay. However, it is incorrect due to the usage of "proponent". Therefore, I must change this. Can someone recommend anything?

word-choice synonyms homework

user19161

I called them vertical strokes.

@FallenAngelEyes gotcha. kind of the opposite of "technical college" in the US, which refers to a relatively low-prestige vocational training kind of school

Yeah, I don't even see the point of it in the last example.

FallenAngelEyes

@JSBangs yeah, definitely not vocational.

@RegDwight Same user. It's probably a style thing.

2:45 PM

@JSBangs Eh? That's not what I think of when I hear "technical college"

user19161

Hello @mana maaaaaan

Though maybe I'm not thinking of things like STCC

Hullo hullo.

Which... probably fits that to a T

At least he added the homework tag. I have to give him that.

FallenAngelEyes

2:45 PM

When I graduated high school, I was originally accepted to NYU, which I was very excited about.

user19161

Maybe the pipe is a frequent symbol in his textbook.

FallenAngelEyes

But I couldn't afford to stay there. :( $49k a year was more than my parents' income and if I took out enough student loans for an undergrad degree, I would've been $160k in debt when I graduated.

Which wasn't really the way I wanted to start out life.

user image

Not starting in debt is always a good thing.

@GraceNote look at google.com/…. most of these fit the description that i gave

2:47 PM

Geepers @FallenAngelEyes. That's ridiculously expensive.

FallenAngelEyes

I'll always be sad (and a little bitter) that I was smart enough to get in, but not rich enough to stay. :(

@GraceNote +1. part of why i think fewer people should go to school

@JSBangs I think part of it comes from my own mental association that "Institute" and "College" can be used synonymously.

FallenAngelEyes

@Mana Private universities in the US can be very pricey.

@JSBangs I think the complete opposite

but that's OK

FallenAngelEyes

2:48 PM

I really, really wish I could've stayed there. It's really an excellent school.

@FallenAngelEyes that's how i originally felt about Cornell, which i got into but didn't attend. however, now that i'm about 10 years out from college, i find that the significance of attending an ivy league college or not has drastically dropped in importance in my mind

I have difficulty calling my "college years" institute years, mostly because "institute" does not imply education alone.

@JSBangs It's mostly used for getting your foot in the water. After a while, you get enough real world experience that more than compensates your education, if you work in the right places.

FallenAngelEyes

@JSBangs Cornell's a great school, I grew up in central upstate NY, so I heard a lot about it. I'm not so much concerned about ivy league status as I was from the quality of the education from an objective point of view.

user19161

I think the increase in fees in the expensive universities is not proportional to the increase in quality.

FallenAngelEyes

I wanted to apply to Princeton for a while, but I figured I would not feel happy there, so I didn't.

2:49 PM

@FallenAngelEyes Isn't there a way to get scholarships for the less fortunate(d)?

I think I'm... yeah, I'm confusing Cornell for Carnegie Mellon.

@Cerberus Financial aid only goes so far, you'll still end up in debt

@JasperLoy i agree with this, which is why i'm glad that i went to a good but relatively inexpensive public university

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus What @Grace said.

From what I hear, quite a lot of graduates spend most of their earlier years not only squandering money just to stay alive, but also pay for all the bills they accumulate from their academic years.

FallenAngelEyes

There's federal funding you can get based on your income, and then whatever the university has and decides to give you, which is entirely up to them.

2:50 PM

@GraceNote right, which is a terrible way to start out

@JSBangs Exactly

@GraceNote Well, how much of the tuition fee could you get reimbursed from a scholarship? I am in debt too, but just because of rent etc., not university.

the idea that everyone needs to go to college comes from a really boneheaded form of credentialism, which requires that you have some sort of college degree just to get a foot in the door

@Cerberus Depends on the school in question, like @Fallen notes.

FallenAngelEyes

@JSBangs Agreed. It's frustrating.

2:51 PM

i'd love to banish that expectation, and allow people to get jobs without having to waste 4 years and tens of thousands of dollars on getting a degree

Some are willing to go quite the distance, especially if they really want a particular student. Others... you'll have to fight tooth and nail just to get a middling percentage.

@GraceNote Yeah OK, but Ivy League?

user19161

@Cerberus It's OK, you are going to be a famous philosopher soon!

this is why i think fewer people should go to college

@JSBangs I am undecided.

2:52 PM

@Cerberus I only went to RPI, so I could not tell you. I'm... also... um...

user19161

That is why I think college should be free.

@GraceNote What does that stand for?

Let's just say I don't qualify for financial aid. I really don't like stating this all that often.

FallenAngelEyes

@GraceNote A gunship pilot?

Oh.

You're rich? Nothing wrong with that.

2:53 PM

@Cerberus Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute. It's a prestigious engineering and science school, but not Ivy League

user19161

@Cerberus Maybe there are other factors too.

I'm not rich. Just fortunate enough, as it were.

FallenAngelEyes

@GraceNote And also named after a Dutch guy!

I think I've heard of it. And it has a Dutch name so it must be good.

Yeah, that too

2:53 PM

@GraceNote the rich always say they're not rich

:)

user19161

@GraceNote I heard of Murray Spiegel there, the one who writes Schaum's outline series.

@JSBangs No, really, I'm not :-)

I wish my family were (still) rich!

@JasperLoy Yeah, that name goes over my head.

I will readily admit it.

2:54 PM

i was lucky and got out of college with very modest debts, due to having gotten a good academic scholarship and working all 4 years. and i was very glad for it, too

Good.

user19161

@Cerberus It's OK, you are going to be a famous philosopher soon. :)

Scholarships always help. I had some myself.

The depressing thing is that the education wonks here in the UK seem to think the US model is a good way of funding higher education.

FallenAngelEyes

I needed to stop my undergraduate education in the US due to some personal circumstances. I'm hoping I can get things arranged to attend university in the Netherlands now.

2:55 PM

@JasperLoy Heh, first of all, no, and secondly, philosophers don't make money.

@Rhodri It makes my mind boggle when I think that they think that making it more difficult for people to get smarter is going to improve the country

@Rhodri It's actually much more like a graduate tax.

user19161

@Cerberus Then try to get employed somewhere else.

@Rhodri Yeah I read they are making C&O increase their tuition fees a great deal...

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus I had a friend with a philosophy degree. He played a lot of MMO's. That's about it.

2:56 PM

@MattEllen what college does is pretty much not described by "making people smarter"

Hehe.

See?

user19161

@FallenAngelEyes MMO?

FallenAngelEyes

He said he just couldn't do anything with it.

@JSBangs maybe for you. I helped me heaps

FallenAngelEyes

@JasperLoy Massively Multiplayer Online game

2:56 PM

@z7sg The current proposal is more like a slightly weird graduate tax. Browne's original proposal wasn't.

@JSBangs How come you have such a bad impression of universities? People can learn a lot there, though, admittedly, not all do.

FallenAngelEyes

Like World of Warcraft or Rift or City of Heroes or any other number of those.

@Rhodri but i agree with this. the US model is broken. i can't comment on the UK model.

user19161

Degrees don't mean anything. There are lots of stupid people with PhDs nowadays.

The Dutch trend is towards the American model too.

2:57 PM

@Cerberus i had a great time at the university, but i don't like the way the system works at all

@JSBangs What don't you like? Sure, it is far from perfect, but...

it virtually requires that you get a huge pile of debt at the beginning of your life, and then spend the next decade paying it off

Oh.

FallenAngelEyes

@JSBangs ^This. It sucks.

That's really the big issue of it all.

2:58 PM

@JSBangs The UK model became unaffordable when they tried to push too many people into the system, just like you were complaining about.

The mere phrase "Student loans" is kinda terror inspiring.

user19161

That is why the free ed model is the best!

and of course universities thing that "everybody should go to college", because everybody that attends is one more person they can milk >$10K out of

FallenAngelEyes

@Cerberus Finally paying off your student loans is considered a huge huge achievement.

In Holland, you don't need to incur much debt if you stay with your parents while in college. But who wants that...

FallenAngelEyes

2:58 PM

Like, life achievement.

@JSBangs That I wholly agree on: this perverse stimulus should be removed.

oh man, this room is always so active

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