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00:02
@jlliagre Philosophically, it is a bit similar to measuring the surface area of something physical.
@Cerberus Fractal?
Hmm?
Okay, not fractal then :-)
I didn't understand.
The surface area of perimeter of a physical object is a kind of arbitrary decision, isn't it?
@Cerberus That's me. Measuring the surface of something physical made me thought of measuring the lenght of the coast of Brittany.
00:08
@jlliagre Exactly that.
And now measure the surface of a grain of sand on that beach on an atomic scale
With what instrument?
Yeah, what you can do really depends on the instrument you can use.
Let's say something that can see the space between molecules.
I suspect the surface of a grain of sand might be larger than the surface of the beach itself.
00:11
Depends on how you measure either!
Google maps something.
On a very small scale, measuring the surface area of a grain of sand is like measuring the surface area of the milky way.
@jlliagre But how far will you decide to zoom in?
I assume the beach is flat, which of course is very wrong.
So, physico-philosophically, the 'surface area' of an object is only meaningful when a scale is given, e.g. as a kind of particle.
Then the question "what is the surface area" becomes: if you cover an object with as many ping-ping balls as possible, with each ball touching the object and all arranged optimally, how many balls do you need?
Or, with hydrogen atoms.
00:26
@Cerberus Measuring the flatness of a neutron star with hydrogen atoms would be a wonderful experiment but I'm afraid I'm not ready to make that journey yet.
@jlliagre You may run out of hydrogen atoms?
Not just these, I presume.
I'm actually not sure.
You may only need a limited multiple of the number of protons in the star.
@Cerberus If done very fast perhaps but I'm afraid that would significantly affect the measured object.
You would need to be almost infinitely fast, of course.
00:51
@Cerberus That's challenging.
You can do When Taken; you can do this.
There's an asyndeton for you.
 
5 hours later…
05:44
@CowperKettle I'm not sure but I think the mood improvement symptoms are actually associated more with glucocorticoid activity. If someone has recently experienced tragedy and they're so upset their physiology is messed up, a single glucocorticoid pill can cause an artificial spike in corticosteroid levels in the brain, like a bigger spike of cortisol, helping them "get over it". So it's confusing if you have high cortisol levels and yet feel better with a corticosteroid pill.
Corticosteroids are more complicated than they otherwise would have been since their receptors are very diverse, and the most important are nuclear and cytosolic.
@jlliagre Judge Dredd vibes
 
3 hours later…
08:38
I don't get it
@M.A.R. Ah! Thank you!
 
1 hour later…
09:51
@CowperKettle You're oversyncing it!
 
1 hour later…
10:58
@jlliagre What should he be syncing about?
@Mitch Nosync more than a laugh. What's more funny than people syncing?
12:20
@CowperKettle mocking the life preserver design maybe.
12:33
@M.A.R. Exactly, a fail. A man is drowning in the river. A young boy, perhaps le Petit Nicolas, opens the box containing a lifebuoy to throw it to him, but due to poor design and the steepness of the bridge, the buoy falls and rolls rapidly down the road. The boy runs desperately to catch it.
Le Petit Nicolas (Little Nicholas) is a series of French children's books created by René Goscinny and illustrated by Jean-Jacques Sempé; its first installment was originally published on 29 March 1959. The books depict an idealized version of childhood in 1950s France. == History == The work started out as a comic strip, which initially ran in the Belgian magazine Le Moustique between 1956 and 1958, drawn by Sempé and written by Goscinny. The series was quick to draw attention. A few years later Goscinny began to write Le Petit Nicholas in short story form, with illustrations by Sempé. The first...
Jean-Jacques Sempé, usually known as Sempé (French: [sɑ̃'pe]; 17 August 1932 – 11 August 2022), was a French cartoonist. He is known for the series of children's books he created with René Goscinny, Le Petit Nicolas, and also for his poster-like illustrations, usually drawn from a distant or high viewpoint depicting detailed countrysides or cities. For decades, he created covers for The New Yorker. == Early life == Sempé was born on 17 August 1932 in Pessac, near Bordeaux to a single mother. He was first raised by foster parents, but then his mother took him back in; she lived with his alcoholic...
Oh, probably not le Petit Nicolas but a New Yorker cover.
13:13
@jlliagre The dame Goscinny who created Asterix? Gotta check it out then.
Astérix: Uderzo & Goscinny
Le Petit Nicolas: Sempé & Goscinny
@jlliagre @CowperKettle The artistic style and deadpan humor are both characteristic of Sempé's work, and likewise of New Yorker's covers and cartoons. So the style is well known in the US (but maybe not the name).
@jlliagre It's like those ancient Greek writers... all the famous ones, they all knew each other or worked directly with each other. If only there were a connection with Sartre, Derrida, and Foucault.
@Mitch Who are those three? I don't know these cartoonists.
13:37
@jlliagre Oh, they're funny all right.
more dead than pan
wow that was dark
who's editing these tweets?
There's no oversight?
Didn't Saint-Exupéry and Camus know each other? Wasn't Saint-Exupéry the driver when the two were being chased by paparazzi through Paris?
It's just like how nowadays it's Bella Hadid and Zayn Gray of BTS that are at the center of an intellectual circle.
 
2 hours later…
15:27
@jlliagre Later Astérix comic books were written by Uderzo the illustrator. I love Uderzo's illustrations (very funny) but IMO his writing is not as funny as Goscinny. So I'm looking forward to read Le Petit Nicolas (the English translation). Hopefully Sempé's illustration is as good as Uderzo.
@GratefulDisciple Same. I remember exactly when the new Uderzo-only volumes came out and they were disappointing.
@Mitch Have you read Le Petit Nicolas? I wonder whether the English translator Anthea Bell did as good a job when she translated Astérix. Wikipedia also named Derek Hockridge as Astérix translator. I wonder whether one translates the British version while the other for American English, or whether they translates different volumes.
@Cerberus I actually read the Indonesian translation of Astérix after I read the English translation. It's a different experience. Both translators do a good job in cultural translation of the many double entendre and puns. One day when I learn French, I would definitely want to read it in the original language. I think French will be my next language since I'm raising my kids in Canada @jlliagre .
@GratefulDisciple 1) No. 2) OK. 3) Huh. 4) I don't know, comparing the US and UK versions of Asterix is at a level of scholarship into popular culture I'm not ready for... unless they have them fully on-line.
@GratefulDisciple I always needed a lengthy explanation of the French puns in English to 'get' them.
15:44
@Mitch I'm just curious for the fun of it. As when I start watching British movies, I start appreciating their British specific slangs & expressions.
But in English the puns are pretty obvious to me.
Everything is serious in a foreign language.
@Mitch Because English for me is a second language, it actually takes me a while to appreciate some cultural references since I only needed to be comfortable with English when I read technical books.
But yeah, if you're living in Canada now, your kids will most likely have French as the first choice for 'foreign' language, and if you're in Quebec, there's probably a choice of track, all French, all English, or mixed. I don't know.
@GratefulDisciple well, despite @Cerberus's mostly correct observation that language is the most important part of culture, the actual contents of culture can be very different even with the same language.
@Mitch Yes. Some Korean jokes (from K-drama) take a while to get them.
@Mitch You mean other cultural elements.
15:50
@Mitch I'm not in Quebec, but one choice for my kids is Law and if you want to practice law in Quebec, you got to learn both law systems and the language instruction for the French law (like in McGill university) is appropriately French.
And I heard that Quebec people will give you a hard time when you speak English. Some pretend they don't understand. They are quite proud of their French heritage.
eg I like all the British TV trivia-like games (Only Connect, Mastermind, Would I Lie to You) and most of the cultural references are beyond me (actors and roles on TV shows like Coronation Street/Eastenders, assistant football coaches in 1980s non-premier league finals, bippity boppity boo, and some other things I just have no clue about)
@Cerberus Did I mean that? Are you distinguishing here 'part of culture' and 'cultural element'?
@Mitch Exactly. Though for us the learning curve should be a lot easier than French / Korean cultural jokes. Even how you articulate Ajumma can be funny to a Korean.
@Mitch No, but you seemed to be distinguishing "the content of culture" from "language"?
@GratefulDisciple Yeah, I have heard it's a thing there. Trying to prevent language dilution.
I mean, I understood what you meant.
But is language really not among "the contents of culture"?
15:56
@Cerberus Yes, I very much distinguish those. I think of language as one part of culture, and not the majority of culture, though it is definitely the primary -transfer- method of culture.
What then defines "the contents of culture"?
@Cerberus Of course it is among the comments of culture. I don't think my language was so imprecise as to imply that it wasn't. Or was it?
@Mitch I heard this is especially true in large country like China. They even pronounce the same character differently in different parts of China. They can communicate well in writing, but not orally. Older generation of Koreans and Japanese even can understand Chinese characters too, but of course they would pronounce them completely different.
@Cerberus Whatever you think culture contains.
Ways of behavior shared by your community (yes that is almost intentionally circular and vague)
@Mitch Strictly speak, it was, even though I didn't think that was what you meant. despite @Cerberus's mostly correct observation that language is the most important part of culture, the actual contents of culture can be very different even with the same language.
15:59
what are the ways to behave? interpersonal relations, daily life, food, technology, language, work, beliefs,
@Mitch A good preliminary definition.
@GratefulDisciple agreed
@Cerberus I would think culture contains: 1) customs / way of doing things (family relation, marriage, political behavior, social cooperation, religious practices, etc.); 2) food; 3) etiquette; 4) artistic products (music, dance, sculpture, etc.); while connection to language is 5) connotations of words beyond the dictionary meaning especially when encoding #1-#4. In that way, the same language can encode multiple cultures.
It is a bit hard to separate and number those things, isn't it?
@Mitch Yes, that list co-incide with my #1-#4.
@Cerberus I do it by cataloging my experience in dealing with multiple cultures and languages. I'm sure anyone who has lived a few decades but exposed to multiple cultures can do that easily.
16:04
@Cerberus I thought that your pithier statement implied that language was -most- of culture, and I was trying to nuance things to say that it is probably the most important for humans, but there is a lot to culture that not inherently language, and I think that by whatever... waves hands indiscriminately ... we think culture and language is, you can share a language and have very different cultures (with admittedly vague range for 'share' and 'different').
@Cerberus One thing that makes me prefer American/Canadian culture is my frustration with some negative Indonesian culture that I don't want to list here. I have since been exposed to Korean culture as well. It's very interesting to speak to Korean Americans of 1st and 2nd generations for example, and reflect my own experience as immigrant to America.
@Cerberus "some negative Indonesian culture that I don't want to list here." OMG... now you have to list them.
No names of course.
@GratefulDisciple Others might consider etiquette to be part (some) customs.
@GratefulDisciple I've heard the immigrant experience is remarkably similar among people from very different source cultures -and- target cultures. (but it helps when you're comparing in the same target culture)
And they might say food is a big part of customs, social occasions, etc.
16:07
@Mitch I agree. I think mentally I want to say that language is an encoder of culture due to human being's natural ability to learn, use, and extend language. And once the encoding is created, those connotations THEN become part of culture.
And they might say food is often artistic.
And art is ofte part of religious and social occasions/places.
Connotations of words would seem very specific.
@GratefulDisciple Oh yeah, language is very much integrated into many aspects of culture, communication is one, but just organizing how people think of their culture (vocabulary, idioms, ways of saying things (and not saying things))
@Cerberus I would say it's human nature's predisposition to being artistic that transform food from survival to artistic product, from fast food (no arts) to culinary arts. That artistic driving force, where it is come from? Don't want to bring religion into the room, but I think that's a good explanation.
@Mitch I don't disagree with that.
Though I think normally very similar language also goes with very similar other culture.
@GratefulDisciple I would say a liberal society is in the end superior.
@Cerberus Yeah sure, but whether it is from inside the language itself (separated from the other parts of culture) or if it is just correlated (a bunch of cultural elements that just happen to go together)
16:11
@GratefulDisciple Art is not about religion.
Humans have always practised art.
Some animals, too.
@Cerberus Of course, that's one big reason I prefer Western culture. East Asians and Southeast Asians tend to want their society be governed by charismatic leaders and they readily relinquish their freedom for society's good. Individual expressions were not encouraged in schools.
@Mitch So that's #1 negative: individual expression is sacrificed for social conformity in the name of social harmony or socialism. #2 negative is disregard for timeliness. #3 is unappreciation for law and order; lots of outright bribery making political institutions become dysfunctional.
@GratefulDisciple Right!
@Cerberus Even in the area of music (of which I know a lot). Being part of the Gamelan orchestra is VERY different than being part of a Western orchestra. Good conductor in a Western orchestra will encourage individual expression and in turn it's made possible by Western classical compositions that give opportunities for different instruments to excel. There is simply no Eastern counterpart of a Chamber Music.
16:16
Fair.
Though there is some good music in the East.
But "Chinese opera" is really nothing like actual opera.
@Cerberus Of course, but convention and "social whole" is predominant.
@Cerberus using the word 'opera' is just a convenience.
Right.
@GratefulDisciple some say that the lack of that, too much individualism, is a problem with western culture.
It can be.
Too much of anything is not a good thing.
16:20
@Mitch I think it's the latter. Language doesn't generate culture; language user does. Like Goscinny. Language becomes richer because of culture. But it can also be abused, cf Josef Pieper's book Abuse Of Language, Abuse Of Power which can then make a word loses its power to enlighten.
and some say that the hegemony of the metric system will lead to the downfall of all civilization
@Mitch :-) I glanced through with various feelings the impassionate defense by @tchrist, how even to name the system that Americans use can be contentious.
@GratefulDisciple yeah I didn't follow what the direction of that was!
I don't think the name is contentious. there are two systems primarily in use nowadays, one is called metric, the other is called, by absolutely everybody, imperial.
@Mitch Sure. Not sure whether the current polarization is a result of that, but I lament the decline of civil society in America today. It was very different 30 years ago. Civil society is relatively okay in Indonesia, but can be a LOT more. Civil society is definitely a Western plus.
@Mitch I would say it is mainly that different elements of culture stick together, like DNA elements that are close together.
16:24
Are people really polarized in the USA? Like, arguing about Trump?
@CowperKettle Re: Trump, to the extreme. Can break up families and cause divorce, I heard.
But how many people actually do this, argue about politics all the time in daily life?
@GratefulDisciple the US is particularly individualistic even in comparison to European countries (it's very noticeable in how children are treated), but I don't feel like that is (much of) a contributing factor in the perceived polarization that you see in US politics.
Isn't it also that the media look at Twitter too much and think it is the world?
@Mitch Hmm individualistic, in what sense?
@Cerberus I see it more as a mania; what has become a stable institution of civil society for a long time (i.e. democracy) recently has become a source of divisiveness.
16:26
@Mitch I would say children and everyone in society is made to participate in continual competition more.
But is that individualist?
@Mitch Yeah I agree. The source seems to lie somewhere else.
I think most of the population wants the same sorts of things (affordable housing/food/education/childcare/consumer goods), and it is mostly side issues that everybody gets really upset about.
@GratefulDisciple Hmm can you edit the sentence?
@Mitch Right, but is it really "everybody"?
and I tend to ascribe the polarization mostly to... the internet... too much information.
but of course that would imply that the whole world should be polarized.
Yes, the Internet plays a big part.
But I also think there are special factors in America.
Two I can think of.
16:28
@Cerberus Yeah that's a better way to say it.
@Cerberus what do you mean by continual competition?
@Cerberus 2 minute deadline. I mean: what has been a stable institution of civil society for a long time (i.e. democracy) has recently become a source of divisiveness. I meant the Jan 6 2020 event.
So in reality ordinary Americans are less busy talking about politics than it might seem when you only see the media?
@Cerberus good point... it's probably a small number of loud people.
@Mitch There are a lot of elements in American culture that seem, to us, centred more around competition than here.
@Cerberus what two special factors?
16:31
@GratefulDisciple Right, when doubt is cast on the process of elections, it damages the institution of democracy.
@Cerberus yes, my impression too. a lot of people really don't care about politics here.
@Mitch Even in the 19th century, it struck foreigners how polarised specifically American newspapers were. I think I have quoted that here in the past.
@Cerberus can you be more specific? any specific examples of competition?
Secondly, the winner-take-all system is a major factor in polarising politics. This may be partly behind the partial newspapers too.
@Mitch Maybe what I perceived is the declining political rhetoric; where it seems to be more and more acceptable to label the other party as "evil".
16:33
@Cerberus Yeah, de Tocqueville.
Thirdly, advertising is far more pervasive in American society/culture, which I think has made politicians do it more too, and use less respectable forms of it, leading to more polarised politics.
@Cerberus I agree with your 3 points. Canadian politics seem to be closer to European; still learning how the system works over here.
@Mitch In schools, children are all about their test scores. And one child is appointed the best in his class, is she not? And for universities there is extreme competition. And for money all throughout society: everyone competes for money and high-paying jobs. And advertising is huge, the whole economy is centred more about competing big companies.
@GratefulDisciple Yeah I think probably somewhat.
I'm afraid I have to go. Good and enjoyable chat! If I don't catch you this weekend, have a good weekend. We have long Labor day weekend here (off Monday).
Have fun.
16:39
@Cerberus But currently, aren't most of the big newspapers in Europe left or right leaning? Figaro - right, Le Monde center, La Liberation - left, The Guardian - left The Financial Times - right, FAZ - left, Die Neue Zurchner Zeitung - right? (assuming I've gotten the directions correctly)
@GratefulDisciple That is a very recent thing. Like within the last 8 years.
@Cerberus That seems to me an orthogonal issue but I'll allow that it adds to the impression of polarization -and- competitiveness.
@Cerberus agreed on the trend but is it really a form of competitiveness? I suppose that must be how it is perceived.
@Mitch Well, less so than in America. First become many are more like centre. Secondly, because many are just slightly right or left of centre. Thirdly, because public broadcasting is big, which is often fairly neutral. Fourthly, because left and right have less meaning in plurifom parliaments.
@Mitch Noo it is very important!
Winner take all results in a bipartisan system. If you have two parties only, they never need to form coalitions, so they don't need to remain on speaking terms. They can vilify each other, use underhanded tactics, etc. So it really is the biggest factor in polarisation in politics, I believe. And political debates and political advertising and the whole 'industry' around it in America do a lot to create that polarisation in society.
@Mitch How can it not be?
Companies throwing endless amounts of money at advertising displaying in ordinary streets all over the country, in order to become always bigger, always outgrow the competition.
@Cerberus Yes, there is the concept of a 'valedictorian' of a high school class and I suppose there is some implicit competition for that among two or three people who might be considered. But to say that the whole system is structured around that and that it's a cutthroat chicken fight to the top is not how most students are involved.
There is no public ranking of all students made available to all with scrambling for pts by everybody.
@Mitch We do not have any of those things!
It is a lot more about competition than here. Here, competition is considered a bit dirty in school.
And at university all the more so.
As long as you pass your high school exam, you can go to all universities.
@Cerberus 1&2: OK. 3: yes the public broadcasting system in the US can barely be compared to that in Europe, it is so anemic. 4: granted, but that doesn't seem to ameliorate the competitiveness I see for control by individuals and coalitions in Europe.
Which is to say yes I agree with you that a multiparty system would be better all around in the US.
I didn't even say better: but it is less polarised.
16:51
and a professional political class rather than idiot yokels.
if that is indeed the term I am looking for.
The core cause behind the bipartisan system in America is winner take all.
@Cerberus It's been around for -ever-. 1800s probably.
And?
@Cerberus It's not considered -not- dirty in the US.
Advertising has also been more pervasive in America since the 1800s.
16:54
Aren't British schools similarly competitive?
@Mitch Haha.
@Mitch I think part of the competitiveness it is Anglo-Saxon, yes.
And England has Americanised, over the past 50 years, also thanks to Thatcher.
@Cerberus The Dutch aren't too distant from being literally Anglo or Saxon
The Dutch are highly egalitarian.
They've made a lot of progress since the bikeless 60's.
They are the peasants and simple fishermen, whereas the English are the descendents of the Vikings.
16:56
@Cerberus Some Yorkies and Geordies are.
Well also some Irish.
Anybody blond or redhead.
Nobody ever talks about all the good things the Vikings did.
At least they destroyed some religious places.
At the very least. And helped simplify English grammar, both before 1066 and, via the Normans, after.
Perhaps so!
One wonders how Viking the Normans still were, really.
@Cerberus Do you think the Normans were mostly Franks from that area who were only minimally Scandinavian but took the name to sound more... aggressive?
@Mitch It is probably complex, but my guess would be: a small number of nobility of Scandinavian stock ruling a mainly Frankish society together with Frankish nobility, where Frankish culture was half Germanic, half Latin (language).
17:33
@Cerberus But the Norman invaders were speaking ~1066 almost entirely Romance, right? (whatever the culture was).
@Mitch At least the bureaucracy did?
Bureaucracy/nobility.
Don't know about the rest.
But I should not be surprised if those spoke Romance, too.
18:23
@Mitch Some US high schools do calculate a "class rank" which is exactly that; occasionally it even gets passed on to colleges.
i.e. they'll tell you that you're the 40th highest-GPA student in a class of 150. The rankings aren't public, to my knowledge--i.e. students can't find a list of everyone else's rankings.
Very different from here.
@Cerberus I do get a general sense that Americans tend to be more obsessed with politics than people in other Western democracies, e.g. the news cycle spending two full years breathlessly covering the next presidential race.
@alphabet Hmm not great.
And you read all that?
@Cerberus Here most newspapers (e.g. the NYT) used to be more centrist; they've drifted leftward as political views have become more stratified by educational level. (Curiously: public radio here is known for being very left-wing.)
Sad polarisation.
I think political correctness may also play a party.
Because it is so polarising.
18:38
@Cerberus It varies a lot between people, but I think most reasonably educated people follow things fairly closely. One of the effects of the primary/caucus system is to drum up a constant stream of electoral results over a monthslong period of time, creating an endless stream of publicity and drama.
Ugh.
I think part of it is that "democracy" has historically been seen as particularly central to American identity, meaning people tend to see elections and campaigns as particularly important, and participation in them as particularly patriotic.
I think many (most?) people see themselves as having a sort of civic duty to follow the news so that they can effectively participate in the political process.
Well, I would say we have that too.
And you have a much lower voter turn-out?
Here it is just a bit less polarised, because most parties aren't enemies of each other.
They have coöperated in the past, and will have to do so again.
@LukeL My large language model was last updated back during the Kennedy Administration, which means that (at least in my idiolect and those of many (perhaps older?) native speakers) there can be no such thing as "a" slang. Slang isn’t a count noun, only a mass noun, and thus requires some sort of qualification or use as an attributive noun, as in a slang term or a slang expression or some such. I believe I have heard very small children, like in kindergarten, talk about "slangs" though, just like these same wee ones talk about "swears". Nursery language has its own register. — tchrist ♦ 2 days ago
Out of the mouths of babes....
18:57
Yeah, slang isn't countable.
@Cerberus I suspect turnout here is low in part because, if you're (say) a Democrat in a mostly Republican state, your vote has no real chance of affecting the outcome of the presidential election.
There is that too.
Winner-take-all is bad in so many ways.
If you believe these numbers, America's "political participation index" is the fourth-highest in the world, above almost all of Europe.
Only Norway, New Zealand, and Israel scored higher. (Though perhaps they should've said "some parts of Israel.")
What does it really mean?
Is it because you elect judges and various officials that we do not?
At any rate, at the national level, there is a bit of an issue.
No clue.
It's worth noting that during (say) the Gilded Age, American politics was also extremely polarized. In part the current situation may just be a return to the pre-Depression, pre-Cold-War "normal."
19:03
"Food" is a mass noun. "Stuff" is a mass noun. And yet "foodstuff" is a count noun. Go figure.
@alphabet Quite possibly!
 
1 hour later…
20:12
@alphabet Yes, that's what I intended by 'no public source' though of course for a certain crowd of students near the top it's a big deal.
@Cerberus I wouldn't be surprised if there were some kind of internal ranking at European schools that is kept super private from the (secondary school) students. But in the US individuals know and often express to others their GPA (Grade Point Average - an average of all the grades for all the courses an individual has taken) which is what the rank comes from. So even though these aren't officially posted, the students will make something of it.
But on the other hand, US (secondary) schools are rife with anti-intellectualism, where, despite all the media to the contrary, academic endeavors and excellence are not merited with social standing by other students.
So the academic competitiveness is there, yes, but not all encompassing.
(except among 'model immigrants', a well-known common immigrant experience @GratefulDisciple)
@alphabet I sense a burn there but I'm not sure of how or of who.
@alphabet I do find that hard to believe, just like I find the high 'religious participation' in the US hard to believe. Just like the 'obvious' puritanism in the US, I think it is more likely that people in the US want to be seen as religious or political, when in fact they hardly are (in general).
@Cerberus It is very polarizing but not particularly substantive.
20:28
@Cerberus In my simple thoughts, I imagined that Normandy (before it was called that) as invaded by Vikings, should be entirely speakers of Old Norse, yet the names and vocabulary that came with 1066 (my little abbreviation) are entirely Romance.
20:46
@Mitch As a general rule, yes, 1st generation immigrant parents (of the East Asian, Chinese, and Southeast asian groups that I know of), but especially Koreans, typically would sacrifice a lot to make sure their kids have good education. If the public school teachers don't do a good job, they would supplement with tutoring. They would move to a school zone that has high ranking. They would make sure their kids achieve high grade so they can go to good college. Etc.
Not sure whether I would call it "model immigrant", but certainly law abiding & work hard, and ensure their kids to be productive (no drug, sex, inebriated parties, gangs, etc.) and to excel" more than their parents, the metric of "success" is often The American Dream.
The sad part it is that I often notice that religious participation / church activities are a means to this end of social respectability of The American Dream, and measuring each other how far they have achieved it. It's an inherent competition. Can be crazy and hurt the kid's psychological health. And certainly the wrong motive to be Christians.
@GratefulDisciple Same for Japanese.
@Robusto Not surprised there, but I don't have personal data to back it up. A few Japanese immigrants I know are really into classical music; they tend to be idealist not wealth seeker.
#WhenTaken #185 (30.08.2024)

I scored 791/1000 🎉

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4️⃣ 📍 1 km - 🗓️ 3 yrs - ⚡ 197 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 1903 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 151 / 200

https://whentaken.com
#WhenTaken #185 (30.08.2024)

I scored 739/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 2924 km - 🗓️ 29 yrs - ⚡ 60 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 121.1 metres - 🗓️ 8 yrs - ⚡ 189 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 561 km - 🗓️ 27 yrs - ⚡ 110 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 7 km - 🗓️ 3 yrs - ⚡ 197 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 416 km - 🗓️ 4 yrs - ⚡ 183 / 200

https://whentaken.com
@jlliagre It's one thing not to give clues, but to give misleading clues takes a special kind of sadism.
@alphabet Is that right? So we are in the new "normal", the pre-Depression era? That's depressing.
@alphabet So we should look at the swing states's turnout then. This election will be no less interesting than the previous two.
21:25
@Robusto Right :-)
21:38
@GratefulDisciple exactly. That's the huge problem with the US electoral college, that it is 'undemocratic' (can give results that are different from the combined popular vote, and like the 2 senator rule from each State gives power to unlikely people In strange ways.
@GratefulDisciple yeah I forgot the usual term 'model minority's.
So it includes Mormons (who are not (not usually) immigrants).
Wordle 1,168 4/6

⬛🟩⬛🟨⬛
🟨⬛⬛⬛⬛
⬛⬛⬛⬛⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
The concept is decades old but popularized (to me as a term at least) by the 'Tiger Mom's book about 20 years ago. Or a boo by the same author.
Some communities are 'model' and some... not.
It was controversial at the time because it named names (eg Jewish - model, Italian - not model, Mormon - model, Christian Scientist not)
Wordle 1,168 4/6

⬛⬛⬛🟨⬛
⬛⬛🟨🟨⬛
⬛🟩🟩🟨🟩
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩
Daily Octordle #949
7️⃣4️⃣
8️⃣🕛
5️⃣🕚
3️⃣🔟
Score: 60
Daily Sequence Octordle #949
5️⃣7️⃣
8️⃣9️⃣
🕚🕛
⓮⓯
Score: 81
But it came with receipts (the book wasn't spouting off racist stereotypes, it had tables and graphs)
Daily Octordle #949
🕛4️⃣
5️⃣🔟
6️⃣9️⃣
8️⃣7️⃣
Score: 61
Daily Sequence Octordle #949
6️⃣8️⃣
9️⃣🔟
🕚🕛
⓮⓯
Score: 85
Not my day.
 
1 hour later…
22:53
@Mitch And consider also this. If the system were different, people would vote differently. If a third party could get some executive power, people might not only vote for two parties.
So the system not only disregards part of the votes currently; but even before that, the system makes it impossible in the first place to vote how people might want to vote.
@Mitch Nowhere to go but up.
23:19
@GratefulDisciple I've heard people compare the widespread dissemination of factually questionable news on social media to the "pamphlet era" of the 19th century, when people would print biased and/or fabricated "news" without any mainstream source to contradict them.
I'm so old now… Q: How old are you? A: I'm so old, all my advice has been gleaned down to 'Keep It Simple Stupid. Can't ya see we're dying here?'
> The World also featured a hoax about a "Miscegenation Ball" with interracial dancing alleged to have been held at a Republican function in New York City.
Always those Republicans.
@alphabet Interesting. Yes, people tend to forget how bad the past was.
And I think some disembodied stranger keeps asking me questions for no apparent reason.
@Cerberus I have no real evidence of this, but I suspect that the early/mid-20th-century was a temporary period of unusually low polarization caused by (a) the Cold War giving everyone a common enemy and (b) the media being dominated by a few mainstream TV networks and newspapers that could establish a consensus.
@alphabet I can't really find this pamphlet era.
23:36
> O ministro Alexandre de Moraes, do Supremo Tribunal Federal (STF), determinou nesta sexta-feira (30) a suspensão da rede social X (antigo Twitter) no Brasil. Moraes tomou a decisão após a empresa não instituir um representante legal no país. O ministro do STF notificou a Agência Nacional de Telecomunicações (Anatel) para cortar a rede em todo território nacional em no máximo 24h. Cabe à agência executar a decisão.
The bully gored? Perhaps not, but still.
Sure sounds like Brazil block sex to me. :/
The Times article is much deeper.
@tchrist I suppose it was imminent.
Easy to read when you already know what it will say.
It has indeed been building up to this.
I hate Twitter and Musk like everyone else, but I'm not sure whether this is the way.
@tchrist Never happen.
Just like Durov's arrest.
23:48
And yet, and yet.
I think that is worse, though.
Yes.
> Now, in Germany, X under Musk’s ownership is complying
with requests to turn over more information about its
users to prosecutors in online hate-crime
investigations. The country has strict hate-speech laws
forbidding certain defamation of politicians and
promotion of white supremacy, and the company under
Musk has turned over reams of user data to prosecutors
to help identify those who break the law, according to
three prosecutor offices who spoke with The Washington
Post. As a result, hundreds of new cases are being
I wonder how long that will continue.
From almost a year ago in the Washington Post.
@tchrist Also, in this day and age, what are "reams"?
An immense collection of very small bits.
The Post's version of today's Moraes-v-Musk news: washingtonpost.com/world/2024/08/30/…
Hmm.
23:56
How can a Supreme Court order ever be "illegal" as Musk is alleging? There is no higher court to appeal such an order surely.
I realize not all countries operate this way.
In ours, one cannot.
He is not known for his thorough knowledge.
Nor for his continence.
Too many drugs, too much money. Ruined his brain.
> Moraes said anyone caught using a VPN to access the site could be fined nearly $9,000 a day.

Proton, a Swiss company behind a virtual private network that people use to circumvent government internet restrictions, said the number of sign-ups in Brazil surged 1,200 percent Thursday compared with a typical day. Bluesky, an alternative to X, said in a post Friday it was setting all-time highs for activity on its platform.

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