English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

12:06 AM

@alphabet Hmm what does it have to do with liberalism?

@alphabet I have heard this too. Also tiny needlepoints of peanut butter to mitigate peanut allergy.

alphabet

1:01 AM

@Cerberus I hear now they make these special powders you mix into baby food that contain a bunch of different allergens so that your kid doesn't grow up to be allergic to anything.

Cerberus

@alphabet Sounds like a waste of money when you can just give them peanut butter and egg yourself.

Which is what parents are officially recommended to do.

alphabet

Kids these days won't know what it's like to have food allergies. Back in my day, we went into anaphylactic shock without whining about it.

Cerberus

Fun!

Dannyu NDos

1:17 AM

Today, Aug 15th, is the Korean independence day.

Cerberus

Congrats!

Whom did you become independent of?

You did that several times.

China, Japan, North Korea?

Dannyu NDos

From Japan.

Cerberus

OK.

Dannyu NDos

Korea had been colonized by Japan from 1910 to 1945.

Cerberus

And by China earlier.

Dannyu NDos

1:26 AM

No, never China.

@Cerberus And North Korea had never been a thing until 1948.

Cerberus

I know.

> following the Japanese victory in the First Sino-Japanese War, Joseon won independence from the Qing dynasty.

> After Gojong of Korea returning from his exile in the Russian legation, many officials requested Gojong to proclaim an empire to strengthen the country, and build a firm framework as an independent state.

Dannyu NDos

@Cerberus No, that's a different kind of independence; No Chinese dynasties had colonized a Korean dynasty.

Though, it's true that the Joseon dynasty was quite dependent to the Ming dynasty and the Qing dynasty.

Cerberus

> In 194 BCE, the ruling dynasty of Gojoseon was overthrown by Wi Man (Wei Man in Chinese), a refugee from the Han vassal state of Yan,[note 1] who then established Wiman Joseon.

In 108 BCE, the Han dynasty, under Emperor Wu, invaded and conquered Wiman Joseon.

Dannyu NDos

Those weren't colonization, but rather, a coup and a conquest, respectively.

And even after the said "conquest", there were other countries in the Korean peninsula.

Buyeo, Goguryeo, Okjeo, Dongye, and the three "Han"s.

Cerberus

> During its heyday, Goryeo constantly wrestled with northern empires such as the Liao (Khitans) and Jin (Jurchens). It was invaded by the Mongol Empire and became a vassal state of the Yuan dynasty in the 13th–14th centuries

Dannyu NDos

1:36 AM

Yeah... Still, the King Gongmin had successfully fought the Yuan dynasty, and gained independence shortly then.

Cerberus

OK so it was never integrated into the Yan empire, but it was not really independent then?

Dannyu NDos

Yeah.

CowperKettle

> Breakthrough brain-computer interface allows man with ALS to speak again - researchers introduced BCI that can translate brain signals into speech with remarkable precision, achieving up to 97% accuracy. The breakthrough was published today in the New England Journal of Medicine.

psypost.org/…

jlliagre

@DannyuNDos It looks like India gained independence exactly two years after Korea. Unrelated to that, Aug 15th is a holiday in France and many European countries (those with a Roman Catholic history).

alphabet

1:54 AM

@DannyuNDos Also the source of a holiday in Rhode Island.

> The holiday celebrates the conclusion of World War II and is related to Victory over Japan Day in the United Kingdom and regions of the United States. [...] Initially observed on August 14, the Rhode Island General Assembly enacted legislation in 1966 to observe the holiday on the second Monday in August annually.

Why was it on August 14th when Korea's is on August 15th? Time zones.

jlliagre

Napoléon Bonaparte was born on Aug 15th.

Napulione Buonaparte

Napulione Buonaparte (natu Napoleone, in Aiacciu, 15 aostu 1769 - mortu in l'isula di Sant'Elena, 5 maghju 1821) hè statu un puliticanti è militaru francesu, fundatori di u Prima Imperu francesu. Ufficiali d'artigliaria è dinò generali duranti a rivuluzioni francesa, divintò famosu com'è principali generali di a Francia rivuluziunaria grazia à i vittorii ottinuti in u corsu di a prima campagna d'Italia. Dopu u colpu di Statu di u 18 brumariu (8 nuvembri 1799) assunsi u puteri in Francia: fù Prima Consulu da nuvembri di quidd'annu à u 18 maghju 1804, è Imperatori di i francesi, incù u nomu d...

Xanne

@alphabet I can’t find anything either, but I once read about it, when i lived on a property with extensive poison oak (which I learned to avoid).

alphabet

2:13 AM

TIL that, in British, the word urinal rhymes with final.

This pronunciation irks me. It also irks me that I didn't know about this until now.

Another entry for my British-to-English dictionary.

CowperKettle

Grok 2 AI asked to render the Ten Commandments

Mitch

If anybody has reopen privileges on Linguistics...

0

Q: Can Sanskrit Manushya मनुष्य and English "Man" be traced back to a common PIE root?

The dictionary gives मनुष्य = a man, human being Are there multiple PIE roots related to "man" that have reflexes in the attested languages?

proto-indo-european

CowperKettle

"Comparable statements are: "Look at the flower and the flower also looks"; "Guest and host interchange". Kōan are also understood as pointers to an unmediated "Pure Consciousness", devoid of cognitive activity."

"The continuous pondering of the break-through kōan (shokan)[66] or Hua Tou, "word head",[46] leads to kensho, an initial insight into "seeing the (Buddha-)nature."

A furniture manufacturer insinuating koans into instructions in order to spread the insight into the Buddha-nature.

Criggie

2:30 AM

Or just left out the word "over"

CowperKettle

Yes.

Criggie

Need a torque spec on those fasteners please.
^^^ Car Mechanic assembling Ikea furniture

CowperKettle

Mitch

2:48 AM

@jlliagre That's the holiday, Napoleon's birthday?

Oh, it's also Ferragosto in Italy.

Cerberus

#WhenTaken #166 (11.08.2024)

I scored 886/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 528.5 metres - 🗓️ 2 yrs - ⚡ 198 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 51.0 metres - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 199 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 555.5 metres - 🗓️ 0 yrs - ⚡ 200 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 2912 km - 🗓️ 11 yrs - ⚡ 123 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 541 km - 🗓️ 11 yrs - ⚡ 166 / 200

https://whentaken.com

The last two were hard.

CowperKettle

4:51 AM

> In world first, 13-year-old has been cured of incurable brain cancer
Doctors had told Lucas’ parents that he won’t live. https://interestingengineering.com/science/in-world-first-13-year-old-has-been-cured-of-a-incurable-brain-cancer

alphabet

Word of the day: blush blindness. "Blush blindness is when you find yourself in a situation where you’re so used to a specific blush colour or placement, that you no longer really see it – even when it no longer suits your face or lines up with the latest beauty trends. So, you pack on the blush without really noticing how much you’re putting on, layering away the pigment, until the effect becomes noticeable to everyone but you."

I'm doing that new beauty trend where you dip your whole face in a can of red paint. And inhale.

CowperKettle

5:24 AM

youtube.com/live/qoCl_OuyaDw?si=973HUsr2eb_5FTyd

CowperKettle

7:21 AM

Human Impact, Extinctions, and the Biodiversity Crisis with Corey Bradshaw | TGS 136

►

Vikas

7:50 AM

You guys upgraded to Windows 11?

I've heard it has some issues like launching apps is bit slower.

Dannyu NDos

I've used Windows 11 for a long time.

Vikas

With Windows 10 support ending next year, there would be no other way.

CowperKettle

9:42 AM

I'm using Windows for Workgroups 3.11

Smooth sailing thus far

Vikas

11:03 AM

@CowperKettle 😮 Really?

MetaEd

1:51 PM

Wordle 1,153 2/6

⬛🟨🟨🟩⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

@CowperKettle I would too but who can afford 3MB of RAM

jlliagre

@Mitch More of a Virgin Mary "take off" commemoration but in Ajaccio, Aug 15th is also a day when Napoléon birth is celebrated.

Mitch

2:19 PM

@jlliagre Yeah that whole Virgin Mary thing really took off.

I assume that's Ascension Day.

Ah no, I ascend that it's Assumption day.

Really, I could never keep those separate.

Oh dang and Pentecost is not the same as Ascension. I need to go back to Bible Study school.

Or rather go for the first time.

On another note, despite Napoleon being a favorite son in Ajaccio, his status is not so high outside of France for some reason.

Vikas

2:49 PM

Wordle 1,153 3/6

🟩⬜⬜⬜⬜
🟩🟩⬜🟨🟨
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

jlliagre

3:18 PM

@Mitch Catechism 101: Ascension: 40 days after resurrecting, Jesus take off to join his father. His chose because he is God after all. Pentecost: Seven weeks after Jesus resurection, the Holy Spririt land on Earth. That's a descent, not an ascent. Assomption: After her death, Mary's body and soul take off to the heaven by God's will. It's an unvoluntary ascent.

@Mitch Napoleon is actually less popular in Corsica than in continental France.

Fun fact: A recent poll stated that if the 2027 presidential election would have Macron and Napoleon competing (an unlikely event because Macron isn't allowed to apply for a third term in a row and Napoleon isn't expected to resurrect on time), French people would prefer Napoleon I to Emmanuel Macron 62% against 38% :-)

@Mitch A majority of French people think Napoléon was a good leader for France.

Cerberus

3:41 PM

What is Reconquête, is that Zemour or something?

@jlliagre My God, Christian mythology is so utterly boring and unimaginative.

jlliagre

4:24 PM

@Cerberus It is.

Cerberus

@jlliagre OK it was the only one I could think of.

He didn't get that many votes, did he?

M.A.R.

5:22 PM

@jlliagre who wrote down the timeline, and did they ascend themselves to make sure Jesus didn't go anywhere else?

I mean 21 centuries later flights are still often with inexplicable delays.

Lambie

Boy, that explanation re Assumption etc. kind of sticks in one's English craw.

Michael Rybkin

5:42 PM

youtube.com/watch?v=36VU0CVBAk0#t=4s as their leader Eugene Terreblanche recieves the freedom of a town in western Transvaal (Does 'the freedom of a town' make sense to you?)

CowperKettle

5:54 PM

Xenia Karelina from Yekaterinburg has been sentenced to 12 years of jail for donating $51 to a Ukrainian help foundation on the first day of the Special Military Operation. bbc.com/russian/articles/c78l178pk0vo

@MetaEd ))))

jlliagre

He got 7% in the 2022 presidential elections, 5.4% in the last European elections and 0.7% in the general elections that followed, especially because Marion Maréchal, Marine Le Pen niece, abandoned his party to support an alliance with the National Rally.

@M.A.R. I don't know. I believe there is some level of uncertainty around these events.

@Cerberus My reply starting with "He got 7%" was directed to your question about Zemmour.

Mitch

6:28 PM

@jlliagre Thanks. As @Cerberus noted, very dull.

CowperKettle

@jlliagre I wonder why they think so.

Mitch

But the main story line is quite a rollercoaster. All the wild miracles and parables, this is my flesh this is my blood, one of you will betray me, Via Dolorosa, Peter you will deny me three times, resurrected... at that point I can see how the author ran out of 'big' ideas. Like a full Shakespeare pay every 5 minutes... you get tired coming up with new plotlines. "OK what do we do with his mom after all that? I dunno, how about ... I dunno... she goes to heaven? But in a fancy way?"

@jlliagre What are all those? Not political parties... are they polling services?

@MichaelRybkin No, 'the freedom of town' doesn't make any sense at all. Generic towns are not characterized by being particularly free (I presume they are but I would never have had to worry about being in a closed, unfree town).

alphabet

@MichaelRybkin It's a special honor given by some municipalities: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_City

CowperKettle

Word of the day: to benim (to rob, deprive, ravish)

benim

Verb: benim (third-person singular simple present benims, present participle benimming, simple past benam, past participle benomen or benome or benumb)

(transitive, obsolete) To take away; rob; deprive; ravish [10th–16th c.]
1900, Guillaume (de Lorris), Jean de Meun, Frederick Startridge Ellis, The Romance of the Rose - Volume 2:
To visit I should much prefer Some sick but wealthy usurer : With patience would I comfort him, In hope some deniers to benimme, And when pale death steals o'er his face, Transport him to the burial-place.

Pronoun: benim

(slang) I, me
Synonyms: jag, mig

alphabet

@Mitch In the US, this is usually called giving someone "the key to the city," since there's a ceremonial key involved. Elsewhere it's called "the freedom of the city"--or town, in this case.

Mitch

6:41 PM

@alphabet Huh. I've never heard of that. I've heard of special ceremonies for special important visitors and 'giving them the key to the city' which always sounded like a really petty metaphor for being able to come in and out of a city with ease, as though the city is encircled by an impenetrable wall and huge locked doors, as though it were the Middle Ages.

@alphabet But the phrase 'freedom of town' is entirely new to me and sounds off. 'freedom of the town', with a particular town in mind, sounds more natural, but also I've never heard of that before.

@CowperKettle note the 'obsolete' attribute.

alphabet

@Mitch Michael Rybkin's example was: "the freedom of a town in western Transvaal"

Apparently NYC made a certain Diddy turn his key in: rollingstone.com/music/music-news/…

jlliagre

7:20 PM

> The respondents mainly remember Napoleon I as the father of the current institutions of France, namely the civil code, the creation of high schools and départements (53%). 43% of respondents believe that he knew how to "restore France and make it a great power", 30% that he "made himself thanks to his great abilities and his work force", and even 10% that he is "the model of the providential man"...
They are still 40% to recall that his wars caused a million human losses in Europe, 26% that his power "was despotic and centralized", 15% that he "reestablished slavery" and 13% that he "plun…

@Mitch They are political parties. I mean, the respondents were asked from which polical party they were the closer.

to which political party even.

MetaEd

"A truly great man will neither trample on a worm nor sneak to an emperor." ---B. Franklin

jlliagre

7:47 PM

Nice cloud yesterday evening.

alphabet

Harris Gonna Code Switch

> Some of her switching is simply to good old colloquial American — gonna, doin’ — but at other times, especially for heavily Black audiences like the one in Atlanta, she switches into Black English: “Novem-buh”; “foah” for “four.”

Black English != non-rhoticity, but whatever.

Mitch

8:42 PM

@alphabet My mistake. But "Terreblanche receives the freedom of a town" is still infelicitous. A person can't receive, like an object, something as abstract as freedom, and also freedom is not a thing that a town has.

@alphabet I think McWhorter knows something about language. He can't give a lecture of all the nuances of the subject in one little NYT oped. Non-rhoticity is just one feature of AAE and, sure, other varieties but it might evoke AAE's other features, if you say 'Black' in the same sentence.

@jlliagre Those items remind me of a number of unfortunate features of other historical 'great men' that do not have the general good opinion by history.

alphabet

9:00 PM

@Mitch Yeah, I know why he intentionally oversimplifies things, and it makes sense, but I'm still gonna whine about it.

Mitch

@jlliagre wow I must have been asleep...I don't recognize any of those... 'La France Insoumise' sounds ... insouciante

@alphabet before I saw the article, I was going to reply to the quote saying, in a much more abbreviated fashion, mostly what he said. Basically NBD, why do people care.

It sounded weird when Hillary Clinton did it, yet she lived for a long time in Arkansas which presumably generally has Ozarkian features in their speech.

It sounded a little weird when Obama did it, because he was a law professor and talked lke one in most news clips. But he grew up identifying as black in Oakland.

alphabet

@Mitch Regardless, I'm pretty sure that the way all politicians talk in all contexts is, to some extent, fake. She's giving a speech, not chatting with her besties; it's not her normal voice regardless of "Blackness."

Mitch

It sounds a little weird when Harris does it, because she is a lawyer. But she grew up identifying as black. I don't know what the student culture is like at Howard (ie if goes one way or the other)

jlliagre

@Mitch Traditional parties have more or less collapsed in the last decades so yes, there are new names. Some parties also like to change their names from time to time so you can be lost after a while, yes. La France insoumise is like "Rebellious France" although in my opinion, it's sometimes La France populiste...

Mitch

@alphabet Oh... I thoght the context in the oped was not a speech but somewhere where informal speech might have been appropriate -or- she was using the code switching directly as a rhetorical ploy.

alphabet

9:14 PM

@Mitch It was about how, in a speech she gave in Atlanta, she allegedly sounded different than usual.

I'm pretty sure the way Obama talks in speeches bears little resemblance to his normal conversational speech. If he pauses that much in conversations, speaking with him would drive me crazy.

Mitch

@alphabet I'd really like to see her international relations positions and her broad domestic policies wrt the economy. Who her cabinet picks are, that kinda stuff.

alphabet

Presidential fluency

> Thus Trump's speaking rate is about 1.77 times Obama's; his filled pauses are six times less frequent; his rapid repairs are about 4.5 times less frequent; and his abandoned phrases are more than 14 times more frequent.

Mitch

She can talk however she wants (if it's Dothraki... maybe not)

@alphabet Stats! I love em.

Obama was notoriously ... studied in his speech.

alphabet

@Mitch In terms of winning votes, it's probably best if she says little about policy and hopes the good vibes carry her until November.

Mitch

LIke he was thinking about every single word before he spit it out.

@alphabet Sure... or rather I couldn't tell about electability wrt her making explicit policies (which interestingly enough Trump did)

But I would think a responsible and sober candidate would do that.

-Did- Trump post his policies or did I see a twitter fake?

Well...

I'm not asking you to confirm what -I- saw, just if you yourself may have seen something like that.

alphabet

9:27 PM

Would his "no tax on tips" policy apply to porn star hush money?

JD Vance caught shoving $130,000 into couch

Cerberus

10:03 PM

@jlliagre Ahh OK. Not too much.

@Mitch Quite!

jlliagre

#WhenTaken #170 (15.08.2024)

I scored 782/1000 🎉

1️⃣ 📍 2 km - 🗓️ 1 yrs - ⚡ 199 / 200
2️⃣ 📍 4 km - 🗓️ 3 yrs - ⚡ 197 / 200
3️⃣ 📍 8180 km - 🗓️ 11 yrs - ⚡ 89 / 200
4️⃣ 📍 18 km - 🗓️ 4 yrs - ⚡ 195 / 200
5️⃣ 📍 8873 km - 🗓️ 3 yrs - ⚡ 102 / 200

https://whentaken.com

I knew I was wrong with #5 but I was lazy.

Cerberus

Hmm lower than your usual.

jlliagre

10:27 PM

@Cerberus You can do better!

Cerberus

@jlliagre With Google, perhaps!

jlliagre

@Cerberus #3 is a blivet as @Robusto says. You should do better than I on #5.

Cerberus

@jlliagre I had to look up blivet.

I'm looking at the first one now.

jlliagre

@Cerberus So did I!

Cerberus

It looks like a certain country, but it could be in one or two other countries.

I mean, it would be too obvious.

jlliagre

10:44 PM

> No question is so difficult to answer as that to which the answer is obvious.

Cerberus

Hah! It can be.

@jlliagre I can't find the palace.

jlliagre

@Cerberus What palace?

Cerberus

From the first one.

A military parade.

jlliagre

You mean the yellow building?

Cerberus

Yes.

jlliagre

11:00 PM

Probably quite hard to spot with Google maps. If you identify the city, odds are high you got a 100 anyway.

Cerberus

I suppose so: but it would serve to confirm that I am in the right city (or country...).

jlliagre

@Cerberus I just checked on Google Maps. WhenTaken location is right but it would be hard to recognize the building by wandering in the city.

Cerberus

I may have found the building.

But I don't know where it is.

I mean, I don't know where in the city it is.

@jlliagre Found it, spoiler.

jlliagre

11:20 PM

Good job!

Cerberus

I tried all the other corners of the buildings first.

And I though I was going crazy, it looked sooo similar but then there was a door lacking.

Mitch

@Cerberus you didn't notice my follow up.

Cerberus

I think I am closer than 200 m, but OK.

@Mitch Oh, I am not good with Christian mythology.

Mitch

@Cerberus me neither but the main story is some wild stuff that would be hard to just come up with.

jlliagre

11:38 PM

@Lambie In chat, unless you're a mod, typos, blunders, and blasphemes are final.

5

Cerberus

@jlliagre Number 2 is a bit confusing.

Why is that plaque there?

jlliagre

11:56 PM

@Cerberus It's written on it :-) Not that I can read a lot though.

Mitch

@jlliagre I add 'typos' on purpose for a bit of color.

Cerberus

@jlliagre I mean, why is it there?

I understand the essential bits of the plaque.

I also don't understand why there are so many people there.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…