English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Laurel

00:05

@alphabet I'm surprised that my own place (and also the rest of my life) is as clean/organized as it is. I'm not on meds and I don't even do caffeine except maybe on special occasions

alphabet

@M.A.R. Is there a medication for "my brain is just kinda generally f'ed up in several different ways"?

CowperKettle

01:22

> In a tournament in the Netherlands, Tal and another Soviet grandmaster were tied in the standings, and the results of the next day's final games would determine the victor. The night before these games, the two drank together until four in the morning. Tal continued to win his game decisively along with the tournament.

@alphabet Have you been prescribed a stimulant?

alphabet

@CowperKettle Yeah but it isn't exactly a complete cure.

CowperKettle

Sorry to hear that!

I've heard that energy drinks are bad though.

I liked being on milnacipran, although it's only a mild stimulant.

Venlafaxine feels "dirtier" due to its side effects.

I've installed the Ukrainian keyboard layout, and constantly use it by mistake, instead of Russian, and MS Word is trying to "correct" me by mangling Russian words into Ukrainian helpfully, or by placing squiggly red lines under normal Russian words

I wish there was a quick key combination to disable it rapidly and only use when needed.

Robusto

01:46

@CowperKettle I use several different keyboards, including Japanese and Spanish, and all I do to switch is Win+TAB

alphabet

01:57

Someday I'm gonna make a better way of inputting IPA. This tool for generating X-SAMPA you can edit seems useful: cbbforum.com/xipa.html

Michael Rybkin

@Mitch Thank you.

alphabet

@MichaelRybkin I think @Mitch was making a joke; if you said "if he raped it," it would mean "if he raped the chicken."

Michael Rybkin

02:33

@alphabet I got it.

alphabet

@MichaelRybkin Ah, sorry, I wasn't sure which part of Mitch's comment you were responding to.

Cerberus

03:02

@alphabet I made my own little tool using Autohotkey.

Səʊ ɑɪ kæn tɑɪp lɑɪk ðɪs.

2

(No doubt the IPA is wrong, but that is the typist's fault.)

alphabet

That looks fine to me (for British English)

Robusto

Sorry, @CowperKettle, I meant WIN+SPACE, (not TAB). It cycles through all keyboards.

alphabet

I can make an XKB mapping for it but then I'd need to remember what I mapped each key to

Cerberus

I type o several times to cycle through all possible symbols that, to me, seem connected to o.

o ɔ ʊ œ ɶ

So I don't need to remember, I just keep hitting o until it has changed into the right symbol.

alphabet

Remember: to make a transcription narrower, just add more diacritics.

Cerberus

03:07

I've only added the symbols that I am familiar with to the script.

Could easily add more, of course.

alphabet

You know you're a linguist when all of your symbols have three more symbols floating around them

Cerberus

Are those always rendered correctly, though, one wonders.

alphabet

ɪnˈdid

CowperKettle

04:07

@Robusto Yes, thank you! Win + Space is useful - it make it visible.

High School

►

Michael Rybkin

04:25

@alphabet No problem.

CowperKettle

05:20

> Stephen King, "IT"

In "correct" Russian, coffee is male, not neuter like "it".

Some grammar zealots like to scorn people who refer to coffee in neuter.

At the same time, the word coffee feels to be neuter because of its sound. It ends in an "e" vowel.

And usually words ending in "e" are neuter in Russian.

Ayn Rand and Slavoj Žižek read "I Got You Babe" by Sonny & Cher (Speech Synthesis)

►

The best cover of the song.

@alphabet Maybe you should do an all-exome sequencing. What if there are some interesting variants that will provide a hint on which drugs or supplements or dietary schemes are better.

CowperKettle

06:18

Of course, it might be very expensive..

CowperKettle

07:16

I've memorized a total of 300 Ukrainian words up till now, and I can understand 95% of a Ukrainian-language podcast with Robert Sapolsky.

Looks like a mere 1000 words might be enough for reading fiction.

Свобода волі, біологія зла та зміни в мозку під час ПТСР і депресії.

►

I've listened through half of the podcast, and there's nothing to return to and re-listen. It's all clear.

Xanne

Wordle 804 4/6

🟨⬜⬜⬜🟩
⬜⬜⬜⬜⬜
🟩⬜🟩⬜⬜
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

CowperKettle

08:17

Luna-25’s impact crater observed by NASA’s LRO

►

At least we know it did not miss the Moon.

CowperKettle

08:34

jlliagre

09:45

@CowperKettle Words can have a gender but have no sex so кофе is masculine, not male!

CowperKettle

10:04

@jlliagre Yes, thanks

I confused them

jlliagre

@CowperKettle Does Russian use the same adjective for both?

CowperKettle

10:24

@jlliagre Yes, мужской род

M.A.R.

10:51

@alphabet have you tried turning it off and then on again

Works for me

And I'm now deja vu-ing because I feel like you asked the very same question and I gave the same answer

Maybe I need to turn my brain off and then on again

Mitch

11:50

Aug 20, 2015 at 15:45, by Robusto

No. I said that as a joke, mainly to see if you were in the chat and paying attention.

Araucaria - Not here any more.

12:22

Any chance of a reopen vote on this Q, folks?

0

Q: We know how expensive we are

We know how expensive we are. I cannot for the life of me decide if this is supposed to be interpreted as a complement clause or an embedded question or what. My thought process so far is that it couldn't be a reported question (for semantic reasons) or fused relative ("how" here doesn't work a...

subordinate-clauses

@Cerberus ( @alphabet ) You seem to have hit on the same technique as IPA.typeit.org. There you just hold down the alt key and cycle through the letters similar to 'o' etc. It's super fast and you can type out whole page long transcriptions in quite a short time. It the business/bees knees.

alphabet

13:35

@Araucaria-Nothereanymore. I've used that before, but on the "English" mode it's missing some characters I'd need quite often for narrowly transcribing my own speech, and on the "Full" mode you have to spend way too long cycling between options.

Mitch

@alphabet I use IPA TypeIt for the weird chars that my Mac keyboard doesn't provide easily. and then cut and paste. It's not great, but it has them all and is easier than trying to remember the HTML or Unicode or Alt+ codes.

I mean to say it's a pain but less of a pain than other methods.

alphabet

@Mitch Yeah, that's the one Araucaria mentioned.

Mitch

Oh. Shit. I can't read.

Anyway, you don't have to 'cycle' through the options, just pick from the full set. But yes, it is difficult to read because it is sorted kinda on the alphabet order plus sound? Not everything is where you'd expect it.

Which chars is it missing?

alphabet

@Mitch The bunched/molar R [ɹ̈], the mid back rounded vowel [o̞], ejectives like [kʼ], and devoiced consonants like [z̻]. (The font Stack Exchange uses for chat really mangles those. Argh.)

What I should have said is that if you use the keyboard shortcuts on the Full mode, everything is like 5 keys long because there are so many characters to pick from.

Mitch

Do you want ejective voiceless vowel tones in Khmer? Unexpressed vocalic nasal gesture in Nicaraguan Sign Language?

alphabet

13:50

I almost thought those were real for a second.

Mitch

@alphabet Sounds like some weird chinese character input interface from the 80's

Robusto

/ˈsoʊ/ /ˈhwəts/, /ˈwəts/ /ˈɹɔŋ/ /ˈwɪð/, /ˈwɪθ/, /wɪð/, /wɪθ/ /ˈðə/, /ðə/, /ði/ /ˈɪŋɡɫɪʃ/, /ˈɪŋɫɪʃ/ /ˈtu/, /tə/, /tɪ/ IPA translator?

Mitch

@alphabet haha except most of your examples are pretty close to mine.

alphabet

@Robusto Great for English phonemic transcriptions, not for narrow phonetic ones.

Robusto

OK

Mitch

13:51

@Robusto Hwæt?

are you stuttering?

Robusto

@Mitch Wheat!

Mitch

@alphabet No one speaks with phones anymore.

It's all phonemes all the time.

Phomes?

Robusto

This is all kinda phoney.

Mitch

I hate talking on my flat screen smart phone. My ear is always pressing some button I can't see.

I've noticed on TV that people seem to angle their phones while using them. Is that to avoid 'ear-dialing'?

Do you all do that?

Robusto

@Mitch I don't talk, I text.

Unless it's my wife or one of my sons, that is. But those are short, generally speaking.

Mitch

13:56

@alphabet There -are- voiceless vowels (I've read) and many sign languages recognize some facial movements as grammatical markers (not as 'lexemes' though.

Some native Khmer speaker linguist is wondering what kind of alien insect talk is a 'bunched r'.

(also me)

@Robusto I think that has become the norm, even among really really old people.

By that I'm not saying you're -that- old.

Robusto

I'm old, but not "really, really old."

Araucaria - Not here any more.

@Robusto /ˈhwət/ ɪz ʍəts rɑŋ wɪð ɪt

Mitch

I mean I'm not -not- saying it.

I just want to be clear that I'm not explicitly implying it.

Maybe implicitly.

Robusto

@Araucaria-Nothereanymore. OIC.

Mitch

Unintentionally

well...

maybe...

Araucaria - Not here any more.

14:01

@alphabet Yeah, but who can do fast narrow transcriptions? They take time and care. No point having a speedy method for that!

Robusto

@Mitch Just remember Robusto is still robust.

Mitch

@Araucaria-Nothereanymore. The faster you can do something slow the better.

Araucaria - Not here any more.

@Mitch Yeah, but an ejective vowel?

Mitch

@Araucaria-Nothereanymore. Highly suggested for your next world building fantasy novel.

Araucaria - Not here any more.

@Mitch Or your novel world building fantasy.

Mitch

14:03

Tracheal fricatives

Robusto

When are they going to realize finger-snapping is a phoneme?

Mitch

Or.. a fantasy novel world building?

@Robusto adds to list

Robusto

Also nose-blowing.

Farts?

Mitch

"The whistle and knee-slapping language of the goat herders of Foom"

Robusto

And that's to say nothing of Morris dancers' bells.

Mitch

14:05

@Robusto I think that language is of the shunned class.

Robusto

Apr 22, 2015 at 12:50, by Robusto

@Mitch Q. Why do Morris dancers wear bells? A. So they can annoy the blind as well.

alphabet

Mitch

@Robusto That's pretty hard to do for any length of time. So probably limited to specialists like for opera or poetry.

@alphabet What's funny about phonetics (a phrase you've heard here first) is that there is all sorts of technologies to help distinguish these phonological phenomena, and telling them apart by these technologies is almost impossible, but when you live it, they are so obviously different.

That's funny.

like the cot-caught distinction. It's really a false note when I hear Dawn confused for Don, but if I had to explain to a Russian... words fail.

alphabet

@Mitch What's really annoying is when you learn about some new phonological/phonetic phenomenon and suddenly start noticing it constantly whenever you hear someone (or yourself) talk.

@Mitch I'm still bothered by that question about someone trying to learn æ-raising. Somehow that sound is incredibly easy to make but incredibly difficult to explain.

Mitch

@alphabet Oh. No, I can't hear that at all. I've had NNS explain it to me and I just don't get it. Somehow it's easy for them but not for me.

alphabet

14:16

I regret learning about ejectives in English. Now I notice all the loud popping noises I make at the ends of words. Argh.

Mitch

also pin-pen. Obviously two totally different sounds. But hey if they sound the same no big deal.

@alphabet Oh. I don't bother with the ends of words. No popping here.

alphabet

@Mitch Have you listened to the recordings on Wiki?

Mitch

All my words sort of trail off.

@alphabet Are you about to give me a link that will make me waste my entire day from here on out?

OK go!

alphabet

> it is most prominent, the difference between the two allophones of /æ/ being the greatest and speakers with the nasal system being most concentrated, in eastern New England, including in Boston.

Mitch

I am stil amazed that -everybody- (including myself) say 'Op' when surprised. Not oops when dropping something, but /owp/ like the end of 'nope'

@alphabet Oh I thought you were talking about Canadian raising like in the Northern cities shift

alphabet

14:20

I live in peak æ-raising territory, which may explain why I can hear this so strongly.

No I mean the shift in /æ/ before nasals.

Mitch

which by the way is 70 years old now and probably going away because kids these days text instead of talking, and listen to tiktok tonterias

@alphabet Oh I thought that was canadian raising.

alphabet

The Northern Cities Vowel Shift may be on the decline.

Mitch

do you mean 'bank' pronounced like /bejńk/

ń is for the velar nasal

alphabet

But Canadian raising (which for us affects /aɪ/) is actually spreading IIRC.

Mitch

I can't be bothered to go to ipa.it

CowperKettle

14:22

alphabet

@Mitch I mean "hand" pronounced [hɛənd]

Mitch

@alphabet Oy!

@alphabet hm

and 'bank' /bɛəŋk/?

There, I bothered.

alphabet

@Mitch Another thing that bothers me. I'd always assumed there were just two different "I" sounds, the one in "cider" and the one in "wider." I somehow didn't notice that (a) dictionaries don't indicate this and (b) for many/most people (including everyone outside the US/Canada) this distinction doesn't exist.

Mitch

@alphabet same sound for me

alphabet

I've mentioned this before, but I think that for me, on any objective acoustic scale, the vowel in "ride" is substantially closer to the vowel in "raid" than either is to the vowel in "write."

Mitch

14:28

OK here's another thing, about lexical (and maybe broader) semantics. Let me try to work this out. It's kinda vague and I'm having trouble articulating it. And all the ways I try to use to articulate it come out sound anodyne like water is wet.

So when people use words they mean something.

(see?)

alphabet

Mhm, usually.

Mitch

but they're translating stuff in their heads.

@alphabet haha usually

but sometimes the stuff in their heads is of a particular strength. Or rather it's not particular strong at all, but there's only so many words to choose from and they have to make a choice and they choose it and say it.

Cerberus

@Araucaria-Nothereanymore. Ah, good.

It seemed to most obvious way to me.

Though I don't like having to hold down a key.

I initiate IPA mode with control-capslock.

Then I can type in IPA.

It ends when I press escape or enter.

alphabet

@Mitch Look up "radical translation" (from Quine), "language of thought hypothesis," and the debate between semantic internalism and externalism.

Mitch

But then the hearers, not out of impertinance (but maybe sometimes that) they take the word said as the -strongest- version. Or maybe the canonical version, which just happens to be stronger than the concept the person who uttered the word intended.

Of course an example would help.

and of course throught the day I find a constant stream of them

and yet

I can't think of any at the moment.

alphabet

14:33

You mean attacking a straw man or an uncharitable reading?

Mitch

@alphabet Those words -sound- like what I am getting at. But did they really mean it so much?

@alphabet Well, those are extreme examples, but yes, abusing amphiboly (that's also a bit strong).

I guess I'm talking about an even weaker phenomenon.

alphabet

@Mitch Google 'em, they're hard to explain in chat. But they aren't referring to argumentative strategies; they're about the difficulty/impossibility of determining the exact meanings of words.

Mitch

@alphabet is that the whole 'gavagai' situation?

alphabet

@Mitch That's the first of the 3 topics I mentioned.

There's also the separate issue of how natural language uses "non-monotonic logic," i.e. we say "squirrels are gray/brown" despite knowing that some are albino.

The "Language of thought hypothesis" is about how we translate thoughts into words.

Mitch

@alphabet In a whole nother direction, someone said it's amazing that we're able to communicate at all, that we have similar mental contructs created from words, because it is hard to imagine that people share the same meanings for some words eg 'reject', 'analyze', 'amazing'

alphabet

14:40

Semantic internalism/externalism is about whether you can know the meanings of the words you say (...basically, it's complicated).

There's also the plus/quus issue from Kripke/Wittgenstein.

Basically, just read all of early Wittgenstein, then all of late Wittgenstein. And Kripke's reinterpretation of Wittgenstein.

Cerberus

P.S. I never really liked his 'game' example.

Mitch

@alphabet I am vaguely familiar with all these concepts but not nearly enough to be able to articulate them or have any idea of the history. Did you study philosophy of language?

@alphabet That's a lot of reading.

@Cerberus Same. I'm never really sure what the point is beyond 'words have fuzzy meanings sometimes'

alphabet

@Mitch Enough to know a broad outline of the field but not all the details. I've read parts of the Tractatus and spent time studying Kripke's modal logic but I've only heard about late Wittgenstein secondhand.

Cerberus

@Mitch I guess that is the point?

But I think you can define a game fairly well.

I think I have made an attempt in this very chat.

Mitch

@Cerberus I don't think you have. In fact, I dare you to prove it.

Cerberus

14:47

May 14, 2020 at 21:08, by Cerberus

> A game is an activity in which participants try to achieve certain goals by playing according to certain rules, where some of the rules or some of the goals are different from those in real life.

Robusto

#Worldle #588 3/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩⬜➡️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟨⬆️
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐⭐🏙️
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

🌎 Sep 1, 2023 🌍
🔥 17 | Avg. Guesses: 4.35
🟥🟥🟥🟩 = 4

globle-game.com
#globle

Wordle 804 5/6

🟨⬛⬛🟨⬛
🟩⬛⬛⬛⬛
⬛⬛⬛🟨⬛
🟩🟩🟨🟨⬛
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩

Cerberus

#Worldle #588 1/6 (100%)
🟩🟩🟩🟩🟩🎉
⭐⭐⭐🏙️🪙
https://worldle.teuteuf.fr

I had every single thing right in one guess.

Admittedly, flag and currency were a bit of a gamble.

Robusto

@Cerberus Congrats!

Cerberus

Its torn shape is telling.

Robusto

Yeah, I had a brain cramp on that one. But the autocomplete screwed me because when I typed the full name and hit return it chose the longer version of the name, which is obviously incorrect.

Shame on me for not checking.

Cerberus

14:59

Ahh.

Robusto

Daily Quordle 585
6️⃣5️⃣
9️⃣3️⃣
m-w.com/games/quordle/

Daily Octordle #585
6️⃣🕚
3️⃣🔟
7️⃣5️⃣
4️⃣9️⃣
Score: 55

Mitch

@Cerberus Oh

That was easy

I was trying to make a game out of it

You won

CowperKettle

15:18

Guess the term: "small molecules that elicit an immune response only when attached to a large carrier such as a protein; the carrier may be one that also does not elicit an immune response by itself."

CowperKettle

15:31

> Severe iron deficiency, also known as anemia, affects nearly 50% of women of reproductive age in regions like South Asia, Central Africa and West Africa (in contrast to 16% of women in high-income countries).

Wow.

Even 16% seems like too much.

My friend psychiatrist always sends new patients to take blood tests for ferritin etc.

Since low iron can predispose to depression.

In India: "Based on the latest National Family Health Survey, anemia among women and children has become worse in most states/union territories during the last half-decade (NFHS). In 2019, Anemia was found in 68.4% of youngsters and 66.4% of all women, compared to 35.7% of kids and 46.1% of the women in 2016."

Wow.

> Targets of Anemia Mukt Bharat 2022.

I wonder what is the meaning of "Mukt Bharat"

Vikas

@CowperKettle Free from anemia.

CowperKettle

Ah! Thank you!

Vikas

Or you can say anaemia-free India.

Seems like there are two spellings of anemia.

CowperKettle

15:47

> The Republic of India has two principal short names, each of which is historically significant, India and Bhārat.

Vikas

Yeah the latter is used in Hindi. E.g. Hindi newspapers.

Laurel

@Vikas This one is British people having extra vowels in their words, as the British are wont to do

CowperKettle

16:30

> A New York City public school 11th grade teacher was suspended for letting his English class read Palahniuk's "Guts".[1]

Laurel

Does anyone think I should undelete this? The opinion based close reason is invalid: english.stackexchange.com/q/611930/191178

Vikas

Page not found

Mitch

16:55

@Laurel 1) the system worked the way it was supposed to, when the user deleted themselves, their question with zero or negative rep were deleted also.

2) it has a reasonably highly upvoted answer

3) most people agree that that answerer is usually well reasoned and insightful and while not the best dancer looks good in a suit

I voted to undelete but that's not a thing people often do (so very unlikely to get a couple more)

Is there a particular reason you'd like to hammer undelete?

Laurel

I mean I know why it was deleted, but it seems like a shame since it really only happened because of a combination of unfortunate events (user doing weird things with account deletion, question being closed for the wrong reason/downvoted)

I forgot that non-mods can vote to undelete questions deleted by Community too, since I thought it was treated like a mod. But it's basically impossible to get anyone to vote for those unless you coordinate on meta or chat or something (or become a mod :p)

Robusto

18:03

@Laurel I wouldn't have deleted it.

M.A.R.

@Vikas you need 10k on ELU to visit deleted posts

Laurel

You know, I think my judgement is good enough that I don't need to ask anyone else about stuff like this, but it does feel good to have people agree with me :3

Robusto

18:19

It's a much more interesting question than is usually found in the "Is this correct?" genre.

Robusto

18:41

Bela Fleck Rhapsody In Blue SD 480p

►

There are few people as good at anything as Bela Fleck is at the banjo. I mean ... wow.

Vikas

19:15

@M.A.R. Ah.

Mitch

19:36

@Robusto s very perplexing. There are very interesting ideas inside, but wrapped in a cozy coat of jejunosity.

@Laurel They're still doing it. ie they're back with the same style of question. user14...

relatedly, can anyone (@Robusto?) remember where to find that full paragraph of back formations... a very little story of someone kempt and couth and imitable etc?

I'm sure somewhere on ELU (main or chat) it's been quoted.

Mitch

20:02

I think this New Yorker piece is it?

2

Robusto

20:15

@Mitch Better a bit of well-meaning jejuneness than a raft of clueless blockheadedness.

M.A.R.

@Mitch I've met people from Jejuno city and they were nice

@CowperKettle wow those percentages are crazy

Anemia rates (YLD = Years Living with Disability)

From jhoonline.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13045-021-01202-2

Given all those happy-go-lucky figures about India's economic growth, it sticks like a sore thumb in this chart. It's doing as bad as war-torn territories

Though I dunno how reliable data for, say, Afghanistan would be

Southern Chile is so anemia-free it's black

Chileans probably have so much hemoglobin that they could export it

@Mitch OMG this is great

> I was, after all, something to sneeze at, someone you could easily hold a candle to, someone who usually aroused bridled passion.

alphabet

21:06

@M.A.R. I've heard that this is partly due to people who are Hindu vegetarians & don't eat enough vegetables.

The problem is that if you're a lacto-vegetarian & start consuming lots of (say) Western processed foods, you'll likely stop consuming enough iron-rich plant foods.

Though this is all, as you can imagine, very controversial

Here's a paper on it: ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8537570

Cerberus

@Mitch Pics or it didn't happen.

alphabet

Another issue is the reduced use of (traditional, uncoated) cast-iron cookware, which can add a surprising amount of dietary iron to acidic foods.

Cerberus

@Laurel The continual problem with un-voting on SE!

@M.A.R. I would say it is more Aryan, with all the Nazis fleeing there.

Laurel

@Cerberus Unvoting? Like downvotes or apathy or what?

Cerberus

Lying around in those countless fjords.

alphabet

21:18

B12 deficiency is also a contributing factor with such diets. And even non-vegetarians in India consume much less meat than people in the West.

Cerberus

@Laurel Undelete, unclose.

@M.A.R. Yeah, in some respects India can be surprising. One thing is that the economic boom is somewhat limited in location and social stratum, I think? So the average shoots up while the median or lower quartile do not?

@alphabet Oh, interesting.

Laurel

@Cerberus I mean I'm hoping that what I'm working on now will prevent a lot of those close votes from even happening in the first place. (Well not now but earlier today)

Cerberus

There is a reason parents in Europe are advised to consult a doctor or dietician if raising their young child plant-only.

@Laurel Oh, what is your oeuvre?

alphabet

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6540890/….

> Prevalence of vitamin B12 deficiency is at least 47% in Indian population and only 26% population may be vitamin B12 sufficient, if people with levels between 200-300 pg/ml are considered borderline deficient

Laurel

I'm feeling weirdly excited about it but I'm a weirdo who gets like that about meta posts :p Hopefully I'll finish it soon and post it in the next few days

alphabet

21:22

The rate is only like 3% in the West. B12 deficiency causes so-called "pernicious anemia"

Cerberus

@Mitch OK that is quite funny.

@Laurel Hah noted.

Laurel

I'll link to it here when I'm done and then I'll wait for the shower up upvotes (hopefully lol)

alphabet

When I was a kid I got anemia because there were so many foods I refused to eat. So I had to take those chewable vitamins

Cerberus

Very liberal parents?

alphabet

Very stubborn child with undiagnosed sensory issues

Cerberus

21:27

Hmm.

Laurel

@alphabet Aha I knew it

alphabet

@Laurel Thankfully that got a lot better over time. Now there's only a few foods I have problems with and I can pretty easily avoid them.

CowperKettle

Russian Nobel Laureate, Chief Editor of Novaya Gazeta, has been just placed on Russia's "Foreign Agents" list.

Blacklisted basically.

Laurel

@alphabet I think I'm probably the same way, but I don't think my eating habits were that bad when I was little. My brothers (who didn't have a relevant diagnosis) were (and still are) pickier than me

CowperKettle

@alphabet My friend was zealously vegan and developed B12-deficient anemia.

Laurel

21:33

But I still don't like foods like chili or anything slow cooked. And I know the difference between regular food and slow cooked food, mom!!!

CowperKettle

I hated semolina porridge in the kindergarten.

I just spread it around the plate and pretended to have eaten it.

Laurel

lol

CowperKettle

I started retching at the very thought of eating it.

alphabet

That sounds like one of those foods they give to prisoners as a punishment

@CowperKettle Yeah, if you're a vegan you're supposed to take a B12 supplement & ideally get your levels tested

Laurel

I can't think of anything other than wine that makes me feel like vomiting when I consume it at least. And there's a good reason why wine makes me feel like that :p

Speaking of stuff I don't like, I have a whole case of Ensure in my pantry that idk what I'm going to do with. I hate it, tho I've found a way to enjoy vanilla protein powder which I used to find similarly unappealing

Robusto

21:41

I bought a container of kale at the supermarket once. I didn't realize it was going to be a lifetime supply.

Laurel

Wouldn't that go bad?

Robusto

How would I tell?

Laurel

If your fridge got infested with rabbits or something????

Robusto

We ate some and eventually threw it out. Hence, a lifetime supply.

I think it was dried kale.

I dunno. Some faddish food like that.

Laurel

Ahhh

Robusto

21:46

I like toasted seaweed just fine. But not that other stuff, whatever it was.

CowperKettle

> A newly opened can of surströmming has one of the most putrid food smells in the world, even stronger than similarly fermented fish dishes such as the Korean hongeohoe, the Japanese kusaya or the Icelandic hákarl.

Robusto

@CowperKettle Worse than lutefisk?

CowperKettle

> Because of the strong smell, it is often eaten outdoors. The pressurized can is usually opened some distance away from the dining table and is often initially punctured while immersed in a bucket of water, or after tapping and angling it upwards at 45 degrees, to prevent escaping gas from spraying brine.

Laurel

I've had some type of seaweed before. It was very salty. It's probably best to have it with something else

Robusto

> There are many jokes about lutefisk. Some of these jokes are printed on T-shirts, bumper stickers, and coffee mugs, e.g. "Legalize lutefisk" or "I have tried lutefisk twice, once going down, and another time coming back up".

Must go make dinner. Tamago and rice. Ciao. Also ... chow.

user 726941

21:49

> Eww

cya

Laurel

@Robusto That seems interesting. I wonder if I've had it before. Seems kinda beeakfasty tho

Mitch

@CowperKettle The cafeteria ladies know your tricks. They've seen it all.

@alphabet I thought @M.A.R. said there should be no worries. What the hell.

On the other hand, I was always envious of other kids who got to have Flintstone's vitamins.

They also got Pop Tarts for breakfast, which somehow I interpreted as them being good for you (because look at all the fortified vitamins listed on the package)

If I didn't mention this before, Pop Tarts are awesome.

user 726941

Popping stuff in the toaster is so 70s.

M.A.R.

@Cerberus yeah Faheem was always upset about it. The multimillionaires in Delhi getting richer while poor policy-making is actually making the impoverished central Indians even poorer

Cerberus

@M.A.R. I'm not surprised Faheem was upset.

But, yeah.

Though I'm not sure about "even poorer".

M.A.R.

21:58

Someone should write Masala Chai of Wrath or something

Cerberus

Besides, isn't Delhi pretty central?

user 726941

coV has widened the wage gap

Mitch

@Laurel Even chocolate flavored? I've never had it but am very envious of those who do. I mean the point of those things is to be very palatable because they can't get the calories otherwise.

@user726941 It doesn't taste as good if you microwave them

M.A.R.

@Mitch never said that. Just that your liver stores up to 5000 mcg of B12 and your body uses, if I'm not mistaken, around 3 mcg per day. Unlike some other B vitamins, that if you go for a few weeks without, you'd run into trouble.

Mitch

anyway, using a toaster is too fancy.

M.A.R.

22:00

1666 days of B12-free coupon

Mitch

@M.A.R. YOu said exactly that, and I'm holding you to it as they roll me screaming into the operating theater.

M.A.R.

@Cerberus southern central? You know, the poor Muslim villages in that movie Lion

Actually, veganism is probably kinda tame compared to the other 'religious' diets out there

user 726941

like fasting

M.A.R.

Fasting is okay unless it's the no-drink fasting and you have CKD

The only annoying thing about intermittent fasting and the like is people attributing all sorts of 'miracles' to them

user 726941

people get overly excited with the early results

alphabet

22:10

@M.A.R. Yeah, that is part of why it can go unnoticed for vegans--if you stop eating meat, you'll be totally fine for months/years before suddenly developing the symptoms of a deficiency.

@M.A.R. Are you even really fasting if you don't do it for long enough to get refeeding syndrome?

CowperKettle

> A man-made antibody successfully prevented organ rejection when tested in primates that had undergone a kidney transplant, Duke Health researchers report. corporate.dukehealth.org/news/…

Cerberus

@M.A.R. Oh, really, like which diets?

Michael Rybkin

22:48

Could you guys please tell me if this sounds like fine, natural English:

I don't like the way he looks in this photo. Definitely not his best look.

user 726941

sounds ok to me

Cerberus

And to me.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…