English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

tchrist

02:13

> Ælc stæf hæfð þreo ðing: nomen, figvra, potestas, þæt is, nama and hiw and miht... Hiw, hu he gesceapen byð.

@Cerberus The OED has just fleshed out its entry on figura as a term used in palaeographic contexts. Do you know it?

Hi! I'm really bad at this. Because I noticed some learner never pronounces the endings of verbs in the simple past, I had to realize the ending is not always the same, so I read "...f the base form ends in an unvoiced consonant sound other than /t/ then the ending is pronounced /t/ (as in capped, passed); otherwise the ending is pronounced /d/ (as in buzzed, tangoed)". Therefore is "z" a "voiced consonant"??

tchrist

@Plusjamaisquoiencore The sound is, yes.

Plus jamais quoi encore

Ok, thank you, these voiced/unvoiced references threw me off.

tchrist

Hm.

Plus jamais quoi encore

Thought it meant "not sounded" something.

tchrist

02:19

Voisement

Le voisement est une qualité (ou propriété) de certains sons de la parole. Un son est voisé si sa production s’accompagne d'une vibration des cordes vocales et sinon, il est non voisé. Tout locuteur peut facilement faire l’expérience de ce phénomène en plaçant sa main sur sa gorge (au niveau de la pomme d'Adam) puis en prononçant successivement « ssssss » (non voisé) et « zzzzzz » (voisé). Dans la tradition francophone, on utilise le terme sonorisation (opposition sourd / sonore), voisement étant un anglicisme. Les voyelles, étant par essence portées par la voix, sont naturellement voisées (même...

In voisé you have a voiced /z/ in the middle there, but in voici, you have an unvoiced /s/ in the middle there.

The English word ice can be used as a verb; it ends in an unvoiced consonant so the past-tense inflection iced also must do so, means the /t/ sound.

In contrast, the English word haze can also be used as a verb, and because its final consonant is already voiced, its past-tense inflection must also be so, meaning hazed ends in the /d/ sound not in the /t/ sound the way iced does.

Plus jamais quoi encore

It's easier to understand with the contrast between "s" and "z" sounding things. But "to like", that's unvoiced too.

tchrist

That's right.

Plus jamais quoi encore

Anyways, I just realized these differences in the way this is pronounced after 30+ years of speaking the language. And of course I do pronounce these correctly. It's just I was going to suggest the person always add "de" (French) strongly at the end of the verbs then I realized I couldn't advise this.

So thanks!

tchrist

In Spanish we call these sounds that are either consonantes sonoros for what English calls "voiced" vs consonantes sordos for what English calls "unvoiced".

Plus jamais quoi encore

Sourd?

tchrist

02:26

Yes.

Plus jamais quoi encore

I see.

tchrist

Which is "deaf", which is odd if you translate to English, but so it is.

Plus jamais quoi encore

It makes more intuitive sense to me than "unvoiced".

tchrist

Yes. I first learned my technical phonological terms while studying in Spain, so I had to learn brand new ones in English for their translations afterwards, and these never made as fine sense to me.

I didn't have anything existing in English to map those to, and you don't think that way anyway. There are various subject areas that work like that because I learned them only in a monolingual Spanish cultural context. Let's not talk about architecture in English, I'll just embarrass myself. :)

Plus jamais quoi encore

I think I struggle with all of it because these diagrams of these throats somewhat disgust me. It is a marvel though I admit.

tchrist

02:31

Oh thank you! I'm so glad somebody else said that.

Plus jamais quoi encore

You're welcome, I'm quite straightforward with the shortcomings of my intellect.

tchrist

It's always bugged me in that very same way.

Plus jamais quoi encore

I think maybe I'm slowly learning about these topics but this idea stops me from admitting it, so it's a double handicap.

Anyways, now I can provide better advice to this fellow, some older dude who's quite good at making himself understood but he systematically never pronounces those simple past sounds there.

alphabet

@tchrist Wrote an answer, then saw it was cross-posted on ELL, then voted to close

I refuse to reward such things

tchrist

@Plusjamaisquoiencore What do you mean he doesn't pronounce them? At all, or correctly?

Plus jamais quoi encore

02:35

At all.

tchrist

@alphabet Sigh.

@Plusjamaisquoiencore What's his first language?

Plus jamais quoi encore

French (QC).

tchrist

Right.

alphabet

@tchrist On ELL it was answered twice, first by the person who answers every question before anyone else can get to it, and second by he-who-must-not-be-named.

1

Q: What is the part of speech?

In the sentence 'the boy is ten years old,' I can't understand why years is a noun. I can see ten years old as modifying boy, so it's an adjective. Individually, ten modifies years and years modifies old. So is years a noun or an adverb since it modifies the adjective old? Also what is the part o...

parts-of-speech

tchrist

@Plusjamaisquoiencore I wonder if he's mentally using French "rules" there. Think about how you say second in French. There is never a /d/ at all. It's skipped completely in isolation, but in liaison before a vowel appears as a /t/.

Plus jamais quoi encore

02:40

I equate it to lack of phonetic "force", like I lack with "the", or "law" in "lawyer" which I sound like "liar". He may think he sounds it but he doesn't and this is further compounded by videoconferencing and duplex whatever.

alphabet

@Plusjamaisquoiencore One note: due to the "alveolar plosive elision" rules, the /d, t/ of the simple past is (in certain circumstances) not pronounced by native speakers either: listen to how people say "noticed someone" or "fined them."

Plus jamais quoi encore

I hear you, I wouldn't pronounce those either, although I would pronounce more "noticed" than "fined" here.

tchrist

Yes, there's more of a tongue dance.

alphabet

This happens to /t, d/ between certain consonants: compare phrases like "most people."

I never pronounce those /t/s and /d/s, unless I'm trying very hard to enunciate, though there's probably some variation between speakers on this point.

Plus jamais quoi encore

Indeed, like "mos def".

tchrist

02:43

Fine "fine them" and "find them" and "fined them" differ in that you move smoothly across word boundaries in the first instance without an occlusive "stopping" or "affricating" the fricative.

Most deaf? :)

Sordos. :)

Plus jamais quoi encore

Yes. Most definitely.

Yes, that "stopping". I understand.

alphabet

For me, "fine them" and "fined/find them" are homophonous; this is surprisingly common.

Plus jamais quoi encore

Haha, most deaf.

alphabet

So it's possible your learner is actually imitating native speech, if they're listening for a /t, d/ that doesn't exist in those positions.

Plus jamais quoi encore

With my speaker it's like he's always using the present tense, except for irregular verbs.

But as I said, videoconferencing doesn't help either.

alphabet

02:49

Hmm. What's their native language? It's possible that they don't have those consonant clusters and find them hard to make.

Plus jamais quoi encore

Same as me, Quebec French.

alphabet

Does he find it hard to pronounce those consonants, or does he just forget to put them in?

Plus jamais quoi encore

Most likely both. He's stronger with lexicon than verbs. And him and another colleague rely heavily on English words that also exist in French, leading to Gallicisms.

I don't have specific examples but he said to a group "we have to align". He meant "we have to be on the same page". I find align without a complement is not very usual.

But then again, I'm no native speaker either.

tchrist

[ɑʲˌdɪ̃ːˈθĩ̞qso]

Plus jamais quoi encore

?

tchrist

02:55

I didn't think so. :)

You don't say that trailing /t/ there before the theta.

Well, you should. But often people don't.

Let alone the /d/.

alphabet

@Plusjamaisquoiencore Yeah, that use of align is a bit odd; you'd expect something like "We have to align on priorities" in business-speak.

Plus jamais quoi encore

Il faut s'enligner sounds more typical in my type of Quebec French.

tchrist

I can manage if I must, but only by dint of hard work.

And the n's just nasalize their vowels without showing their own faces.

alphabet

It could also be confusion about the simple present rules. I've heard some EFL teachers actually teach the simple past first, since the simple present is so complicated.

tchrist

?

Plus jamais quoi encore

02:58

I was taught using 3 colums like - liked - liked.

alphabet

@tchrist The issue is that the simple present can be used to describe things occurring in past, present, or future time, but not things happening simultaneously with the present moment, except under certain circumstances.

tchrist

There are very few English verbs irregular in the present, no more than a handful or two. But in the past? Probably one to two hundred.

@alphabet You're not talking about morphology?

alphabet

@tchrist No, I'm talking about knowing when to use it.

Cerberus

@tchrist Oh, nice.

I do not remember seeing it.

How would you translate hiw?

alphabet

Here's a fun question: why can you say "The train departs at 6pm" but not "The train derails at 6pm"? You need "The train will derail at 6pm."

tchrist

03:01

@Cerberus Shape or form?

Not hue.

Cerberus

@alphabet Because things that happen on a fixed schedule are treated as facts, which are in the simple present?

@tchrist I don't know the word!

tchrist

@Cerberus It's what gave us hue, but the original sense has been lost to us.

alphabet

@Cerberus Basically yes.

Cerberus

OK makes sense.

X2.

alphabet

But there are a whole bunch of rules about where you can use the simple present that don't apply to the simple past.

Plus jamais quoi encore

03:03

Can't you say "the train will depart at 6pm" too?

Cerberus

@alphabet Yeah my pupils learn many of those.

tchrist

Cerberus

@Plusjamaisquoiencore I think it is possible, but probably less common?

alphabet

"We were angry" and "The bomb exploded" are both correct. "We are angry" is correct. "The bomb explodes" is wrong.

tchrist

They've kindly provided Latin translations for the confusing Old English. Well, Alfric has.

alphabet

03:04

As I recall, native speakers of some languages have trouble adjusting to the English aspect system.

Cerberus

@alphabet We are angry because you're being mean.

tchrist

> Æfter his hiwe [Latin secundum speciem suam].

Cerberus

@tchrist Thankfully.

tchrist

No kidding.

Cerberus

@alphabet Probably almost all languages, even Dutch...

Plus jamais quoi encore

03:06

I just realized my speaker would just say "explode". So it's those d+s, d+id, k+t+ed sounds. Food for thought.

alphabet

Oddly enough, one way in which you can't use the simple present is to describe events that are happening in the immediate present.

tchrist

What's an event?

alphabet

@Plusjamaisquoiencore He could also be having trouble pronouncing [ɪ] (the kit vowel); this of course tends to be tricky for French speakers.

tchrist

Those flowers smell amazing!

alphabet

@tchrist Yes, but you can't say "He cleans the house" while he's cleaning the house. You have to use the progressive there. (Except for the numerous exceptions to these rules.)

tchrist

03:08

@alphabet While Jim cleans the house, you need to take the dog for a walk.

alphabet

@tchrist That's one of the exceptions: in subordinate clauses the rules are different.

tchrist

Then she gets nothing.

Plus jamais quoi encore

I need to give it some thought. Trying to help someone like him improve on these is touchy. Anyways, thanks all, insightful as always. I must sleep, another day, another cookie.

Cheers!

alphabet

Of course, "Every day he cleans the house" is fine.

@Cerberus Huh. I'd assume that Germanic languages would be the most similar to English in this respect.

tchrist

I certainly prefer the OE spelling of hiw over the modern spelling of hue though.

@alphabet Huh? Goodness no!

Cerberus

03:12

@alphabet Noo English is so weird.

Perhaps Celtic influence?

tchrist

Neither in Dutch, German, Swedish, Danish, Norwegian, nor Icelandic. Let alone Gothic.

alphabet

@Cerberus Interesting.

tchrist

@alphabet Do you speak no other languages?

Cerberus

I heard about a theory that the ubiquitous use of the progressive aspect was from Celtic.

alphabet

Then there are the words whose meaning changes in the progressive: "Give them the money when he's dying" and "Give them the money when he dies" mean two very different things.

tchrist

03:14

I remember hearing that notion.

Cerberus

That may have messed up the rest as well.

alphabet

@tchrist Just English and Raccoon. (I took Latin in school but never got too good at it.)

Cerberus

@alphabet Would you use when in the second example? I probably wouldn't notice it, but, when I think about it, I prefer after.

alphabet

@Cerberus Either works. "When" can be used to mean "after."

Cerberus

As I said, it wouldn't strike me as a non-native mistake.

Nor do I like it very much.

Perhaps also because it comes after the main clause.

tchrist

03:17

@alphabet Go learn at least one other modern Germanic language, preferably two, and at least two modern Romance languages, and not two that are too similar to each other either. You need to place English in the right context so you need both branches. Then if you have nothing else to do you can learn something from other Indo-European branches, like Celtic or Slavic or even one of the eastern ones.

Cerberus

> When she died, they give her money away.

Even less unusual.

tchrist

Maybe Greek.

Robusto

@alphabet "The train derails at 6 pm" is just fine as is, assuming you know someone contrived to make that happen, or did so yourself.

tchrist

@Robusto Correct.

Cerberus

I find the past tenses in French also hard to understand, in that the same tense is used differently from Dutch. But no more different from Dutch than are English tenses.

tchrist

03:19

@Cerberus Is the imperfect/perfect that throws you off?

I wouldn't think so.

But I should not assume.

alphabet

Meanwhile "Water will boil faster at higher altitudes" and "Water boils faster at higher altitudes" are both correct and essentially synonymous.

tchrist

Um, that's not a future marker, kid.

It's volitional.

It wants to boil faster there. :)

alphabet

@tchrist I don't have the patience for it, to be honest.

@tchrist According to H&P, you can use the future there because the sentence is implicitly conditional: "If you're at a higher altitude, water will boil faster."

tchrist

@alphabet Is not future.

Cerberus

@tchrist Imparfait, passé composé, passé simple.

alphabet

03:23

@tchrist Depends on what you mean by "future."

tchrist

@Cerberus Well, the problem is that in speech the last one doesn't get used any longer so this makes it fuzzier.

Cerberus

That is what people are told.

tchrist

@alphabet There's no hope for him. He simply will not hold still long enough to study.

Cerberus

It is the kind of thing some people would say about many things we use.

But my French friend told me the passé simple is in fact used in educated speech.

tchrist

Again, no future there. He won't do that because he does not want to do it, he refuses to do it.

And there certainly is no conditional either.

alphabet

03:25

@tchrist The door won't open. You will do as I say.

tchrist

@Cerberus Yes, I've heard it in scholarly lectures.

@alphabet Deontic, not epistemic.

Both of those, in the customary senses, are in the deontic mode of permissions, not in the epistemic mode of possible futures.

Cerberus

@tchrist I would say future will and epistemic will are cousins.

tchrist

@Cerberus Those two are the same thing.

alphabet

This is why H&P argue that will is actually a modal auxiliary that happens to also be used to express futurity.

"She'll be in the office by now."

Cerberus

@tchrist OK whatever you call them.

tchrist

03:27

The deontic will isn't about a possibility, and therefore is not about "the future".

Cerberus

I meant the one denoting frequency.

tchrist

@Cerberus Oh yes, there's that one, too. I had forgotten it. It's the one whose past tense is would.

Cerberus

> He will text his wife at odd hours.

> He will text his wife tomorrow.

I think these two are related.

tchrist

The first is frequentive.

Cerberus

Can usually be distinguished, but I think the former was born of the latter.

alphabet

03:29

Of course, strictly speaking "He will text his wife at odd hours" is ambiguous.

Cerberus

Something one does in the future ~~~ something one is bound to do again.

@alphabet My strictly is not so good.

tchrist

When they lived on the coast but he worked in the city late at nice, he would often text his wife at odd hours.

Cerberus

Yes.

I see no different between present and past will.

alphabet

Here's another fun question. "He cleaned the house for an hour" and "he cleaned the house in an hour" are both fine. "He's cleaning the house for an hour" is fine. "He's cleaning the house in an hour" is, at best, quite awkward.

tchrist

Well, past will is would. :)

Cerberus

03:31

> He will text her again.
He will text her again and again.

@tchrist Exactly.

Isn't it funny how an extra again suggests a different kind of will?

At least it does to me.

And I think it's easily explained.

alphabet

Depends on context. "If she breaks up with him, he will text her again and again."

tchrist

People are so intoxicated by conditional frames that they stop being able to see how common modal uses outside those really are.

Cerberus

@alphabet Yes, but that is again not the most obvious context. The first and the second have different interpretations prima facie, wouldn't you say?

alphabet

@Cerberus I would actually see "He will text her again and again" as ambiguous without further context.

Cerberus

But the first sentence is not ambiguous, is it?

tchrist

03:36

My problem is girls—they won't go out with me.

alphabet

@Cerberus "He will text her again" isn't ambiguous (generally).

Cerberus

The extra again clearly changes things.

tchrist

Some of the must-have things, I will admit, only make sense to the people who must have them.

Cerberus

@tchrist That could be voluntary will.

tchrist

Will you please stop parroting on about breakfast?

Black bears will generally be more vulnerable to valley-bottom disturbance than brown bears.

Julius will have it that she has made a bargain with Sir Anthony.

I can, and I will, pass all of my AP tests.

He will have left by now.

Nothing future there.

The prefect means I'm quite certain about a past event.

No futures.

Obsessing over will as a future marker by willfully seeing its every use through future-colored classes will simply not do.

Most of you will have seen a pollen-collector making for home with her legs coated with pollen, looking as if she wore plus-fours.

Shite! I'm late and that'll be her on the mobie now so I'm just letting it run on to answer.

If a taverna has only one barrel of wine it will be white, and it may be retsina.

To distinguish Bentham's interpretation of the term, I will call it experienced utility.

Use an ovenproof frying pan which will hold all the potatoes in a single layer.

These lack temporal function.

There came now this questioning time. There could be about four people, at times six people. At times I would stand, at times I would sit, and these people would take turns

alphabet

03:45

"If he would have bought it earlier, he would have been rich by now."

tchrist

If only he had been willing to buy it earlier, ...

Is more elegant.

Parents would usually live with their children until they either got married and left.., or there was no more room left due to the number of grandchildren.

> In August 2017, Trump announced that he would reverse a policy that enabled transgender individuals to serve openly in the military.

The Elizabethan's chief concern was that the present would soon merge in the past and be gone.

alphabet

Another fun simple present usage: "Let me know who wins."

tchrist

People in this region would have seen an entire black disc in front of the sun, blocking out 95 per cent of the sun's light—an unforgettable sight.

alphabet

"I bet it rains tomorrow."

(These are from H&P.)

tchrist

My challenge was to design an algorithm that would distinguish window shoppers from buyers.

Why would you delay so long?

alphabet

03:49

"The match now starts next Monday, not next Tuesday."

Mitch

Mar 27, 2013 at 13:08, by Mitch

Also I came here to say something important and you're all distracting me with this nonsense.

tchrist

You may all leave us now. I would speak with the Squire.

alphabet

"I was playing chess and this guy comes along and challenges me to a game."

tchrist

The newspapers and the television reports would have her believe that non-nationals in the country are alike.

alphabet

"Here comes the bus!"

tchrist

03:50

I would suggest that Hollywood is not the only culprit in softening public opinion towards torture.

I would have thought governments might have learned from the poll tax not to use Scotland as a test bed for anything.

alphabet

And sometimes you can use the present tense to describe events happening in the instantaneous present: "I promise I'll help you tomorrow."

tchrist

You wouldn't happen to have a joint on you, would you?

Mitch

This is awesome

tchrist

I would have loved to win this thing one more time, but it just wasn't in the cards.

Mitch

151

257

I'm throwing down primes to see if you're impressed by them

tchrist

03:52

That would be—let me see—five times three hundred and sixty-five is—um.

Mitch

Just like you're throwing down sentences in the future that are not about the future

1003

tchrist

Would you let me know if you pencil anything in for any Sunday in March 2026 so that I can let him know?

alphabet

"Will you help me move these boxes?" vs "Would you help me move these boxes?"

Mitch

(I can really only do 3 digits and even then I'm just hoping)

tchrist

That one is only about the future for a few years yet. Then it will have been about the past.

How would I have blest you if you would have suffered me!

Mitch

03:55

2047

Was that a good one?

tchrist

If it would only have rained, how welcome it would have been.

Would you mind my asking you what part of the country you come from?

I wish summer would hurry up. My bones are cold.

It was intended that the station would provide a park and ride facility for the whole of the Vale.

Mitch

Dang it

tchrist

It is objected that the Will contains an extravagant genealogy; the very thing a medieval Will would contain.

Mitch

2047 = 23*87

That's hard

tchrist

Media critics have long argued that networks should not call races until all polls have closed to avoid affecting turnout. It's a moot argument: information will out.

You may bring me a small glass too, if you will.

alphabet

03:59

"I wouldn't buy you lunch, but him I will."

tchrist

Think what you will of her—I know she's not well-liked among the girls.

You'll have to go on being a millionairess, whether you will or no.

Mitch

Argh - I should have seen it

tchrist

Two wills, no contest. No commonality.

Create a disturbance as a ruse, then effect an entrance will they or nill they.

Mitch

2047 + 23= 2070 and that + 230 = 2300

tchrist

He that may and will not, when he would he shall not.

Mitch

04:02

Where there's a will there's a way

alphabet

"Eight words the Wiccan Rede fulfill, An it harm none do what ye will."

An archaic adage invented in 1964.

tchrist

Oft evil will shall evil mar.

alphabet

I should learn witchcraft.

tchrist

Mitch

Like the poor cat i'the adage, letting I dare not come before I would

tchrist

04:08

wildebeests

vill de beests best ye?

Chuckwalla.

Wallawalla.

Pattawalla.

Potawatomi.

Watopotami.

Mishawaka.

jlliagre

04:48

@alphabet Pronouncing the kit vowel is easy for French speakers if they are taught the secret about how to do it. Reciprocally, English speakers can also easily pronounce the French word café if they are given that secret too. Unfortunately, the secret is so unbelievable that it is commonly rejected and French speakers keep on saying keet for kit and English speakers cafay for café.

CowperKettle

05:09

Medical student from India decided to stay in Archangelsk as a doctor 29.ru/text/world/2023/11/30/72967640

Arkhangelsk is higher north than my native town in Siberia, but the climate is much milder due to the influence of the ocean

Arkhangelsk

Arkhangelsk (UK: , US: ; Russian: Арха́нгельск, IPA: [ɐrˈxanɡʲɪlʲsk]), also known as Archangel and Archangelsk, is a city and the administrative center of Arkhangelsk Oblast, Russia. It lies on both banks of the Northern Dvina near its mouth into the White Sea. The city spreads for over 40 kilometres (25 mi) along the banks of the river and numerous islands of its delta. Arkhangelsk was the chief seaport of medieval and early modern Russia until 1703, when it was replaced by the newly-founded Saint Petersburg. A 1,133-kilometer-long (704 mi) railway runs from Arkhangelsk to Moscow via Vologda and...

> So will I pray that thou mayst have thy “Will,”
If thou turn back and my loud crying still.

alphabet

06:14

Hero firefighters construct housing for local raccoons

CowperKettle

08:19

CowperKettle

08:39

CowperKettle

09:02

Russian meme comparing 2013 with 2023

At the very end of 2013, Zelensky took part in the annual televized New Year Concert in Moscow. He was a comic actor back then.

And the man in square 1 is Prigozhin, who is a musical producer but happens to have the same surname with the other Prigozhin.

In the spring of 2023, the musical producer had to close his Telegram posts to comments, because people were flooding them with proposals to deliver more artillery shells to him.

And in square 3 is the now-dead Prigozhin in his famous video where he used swear words towards the Minister of Defense, asking where the f*ing artillery shells were.

> When you have artillery rounds / When you've run out of artillery rounds

CowperKettle

09:45

> Nature. - Scientists have developed tiny robots made of human cells that are able to repair damaged neural tissue1. The ‘anthrobots’ were made using human tracheal cells and might, in future, be used in personalized medicine.

Book-banning advocate claims 'a single kiss' in a children's book led to her porn addiction

> Lanah Burkhardt claims that the “single kiss” she encountered in a book when she was 11 years old made her a depressed, suicidal porn addict at 13.

jlliagre

10:56

> The Pope! How many divisions has he got?

user 85795

13:48

Infinitely many divisions.

Robusto

15:12

Why psychedelics produce some of the most meaningful experiences in people’s lives

tchrist

@CowperKettle I don't think I understand the joke. And it's not the French that defeats me here.

Robusto

Jun 8, 2021 at 13:51, by Robusto

Take some LSD and we'll talk.

> Griffiths’s study found that, two months after taking psilocybin, the active ingredient in magic mushrooms, two-thirds out of 30 volunteers rated their subsequent trip as one of the five most meaningful experiences of their lives.
Further studies that ask the same question have pushed that number to as high as 87 percent of participants, confirming the curious fact that a group of molecules can reliably deliver on demand what the psychiatrist Viktor Frankl called the central human motivation: the search for meaning.

Jun 8, 2021 at 13:56, by Robusto

LSD is a door you go through, and once on the other side you don't need to go through that door again.

> ... studying psychedelics to learn more about the biological underpinnings of meaningful experiences could hold any number of fascinating lessons. Instead of providing conclusive answers, psychedelic meaning may reveal profound questions that change the course of action we take in the world.

CowperKettle

15:29

@tchrist A couple moves into a village and builds a house that breaks the whole charm, by being a cube.

> ..babies learn from rhythmic information – the changing emphasis of syllables in speech – which unlike phonetic information, can be heard in the womb

Robusto

@CowperKettle That's interesting. The cadences of speech prime the fetus for the language to come.

jlliagre

15:52

@tchrist Don't worry, you aren't alone :-)

That one is better.

jlliagre

16:14

Robusto

16:27

@jlliagre Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

Mitch

@Robusto P'tit à p'tit, l'oiseau fait son nid

Robusto

@Mitch Pfft. Birds don't eat pita. Greeks do that.

CowperKettle

17:33

Dangote Refinery, the most powerful in the world.

M.A.R.

18:13

@CowperKettle then there's not much hope left for the participants of this chat

@CowperKettle reminds me of a hairbrush

Robusto

18:43

Overseer - Horndog

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That pretty much describes most of the chat denizens everywhere.

user 85795

19:11

York Circle - Bilingualism, Brain, and Behaviour: What's the Connection?

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alphabet

22:46

To be honest, if it were up to me we'd just abolish school libraries, at least for anything other than picture books for the very young. Even when I was in school, almost nobody used them. Now everything's online anyway.

Laurel

23:15

@alphabet Eh, some school libraries are used. Most even. Tho there was one school I was at (doing IT stuff, not as a student) where the library wasn't used. All the books were decades old and there was a dead mouse that we found somewhere, in addition to something else disgusting that we found on one of the shelves (I've repressed my memory of what it was)

While this was before the kids came back to school, it was stuff like that that showed just the sheer neglect that the place suffered. We ended up using it as storage space for a bunch of chromebooks

tchrist

23:48

@Laurel Whatever could be wrong with a school library having books that are "decades old"? They get infested with bookworms? Never trust a book older than you are? Breaks the first commandment of consumerism that you have to keep the publishers in business? Shakespeare updated his plays?

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