English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Robusto

00:00

As much as I like cheese, I think that if there was ever a better candidate for deletion I haven't seen it.

@Cerberus: We watched the first episode of Barbarians. It's ... a disappointment. The history/fiction balance is vastly tipped toward the latter. The Latin is used when the Romans speak, but the German is dubbed into English.

Cerberus

@Robusto That's weird, I saw a trailer where the Germans speak German.

Robusto

@Cerberus Well, in your country. In mine, they speak English, occasionally in sync with their mouth movements.

Cerberus

I didn't see it in a country.

I saw it on the Internet.

Robusto

Well, you probably get different feeds than we do.

Cerberus

I just searched.

When you mentioned it.

I hate dubbing.

The Germans do it, too.

Robusto

00:09

Yeah. I couldn't believe it when Reg said he watched The Big Lebowski in a dubbed version.

That's like listening to Bach played on kazoos and washboards.

@Cerberus It's funny because I would understand the German, but not the Latin (mostly). And the Latin they translate in subtitles, which would be fine.

Mitch

@M.A.R. I don't know if I would call that a shame

@Cerberus Hong Kong movies from the 70's were filmed in Mandarin, then dubbed in Cantonese, English, some others I'm sure and... Mandarin

Maybe not Mandarin. But they'd film it in one language, throw away the sound and then dub in that language, among others

Robusto

00:29

-1

Q: Non-ableist alternative to "blind spot"

The phrase "blind spot" has been called ableist. For someone looking to avoid it, what are some good alternatives? Sample sentences: We need to be aware of our blind spots to make sure a competitor doesn't surprise us in the market. Employee morale has been a blind spot for us in the past, but S...

Oh, please.

I guess we'll have to ditch all the double-blind pharmaceutical trials now, and stop putting blinds on our windows. Not to mention changing our betting terminology in poker. What next? Will we need to stop saying someone is "a sight for sore eyes" now too? For Pete's sake, this is becoming an invidious parody. — Robusto 1 min ago

Cerberus

@Robusto Heh.

@Robusto Much better.

@Mitch ...why?

@Robusto Yuck.

Mitch

@Cerberus I'm not really sure. I've never heard an explanation.

Cerberus

Bureaucracy, perhaps?

Mitch

00:48

Hmm

Or they just fell into it that way?

Cerberus

Just as people who arrive at the hospital to have a cucumber removed just fell into it?

It's what people will say.

Robusto

How do you fall on a cucumber?

Cerberus

Ask those patients.

Mitch

@Cerberus exactly. It just....happens

Cerberus

Sure.

Mitch

00:57

@Robusto you're making salad and... It slipped?

Robusto

@Mitch I've never met the cucumber that could defeat me that way.

Cerberus

It was standing in a box you fell into backwards?

Robusto

It's a simple question: Who will be the master? You or your salad?

Mitch

01:22

You're harvesting your cauliflower and you pull one out and to your horror it's a bert and in your surprise you fall back into the cucumber frame?

Cerberus

A...bert?

But, yes, something like that.

Mitch

Beet

It was supposed to be a beet

But yeah you'd also be surprised if it were a bert

Robusto

This is what I thought you meant. Only out of cauliflower.

And I was afraid. Truly. I would drop that thing like a hot ... potato?

Bert and Ernie

Bert and Ernie are two Muppets who appear together in numerous skits on the long-running PBS/HBO children's television show, Sesame Street. Originated by Frank Oz and Jim Henson, the characters are currently performed by puppeteers Eric Jacobson and Peter Linz; Oz performed Bert until 2006. == History == Bert and Ernie were built by Don Sahlin from a simple design scribbled by Jim Henson, creator of The Muppets. Initially, Henson performed Bert and Oz performed Ernie, but after just one day of rehearsal, they switched characters. The original idea was to show that even though two people can have...

In case those not from the land of Sesame Street don't know who that is.

Mitch

01:38

@Robusto And no one was worried about the glass and splinters from the frame?

Robusto

01:53

@Mitch I thought you meant "frame" in the astrophysics sense.

Mitch

@Robusto Uh... yeah. Sure. I don't know how fast you were going so might as well.

I don't like to say out loud my petty thoughts...

but...

sometimes...

sometimes I think it would be funny...

even if it were at the expense...

of other people...

but...

I just keep thinking of all the people who -don't- want to get the vaccine...

not the ones who have fear of needles but then use conspiracy theories to hide behind...

or people who legitimately are concerned about side affects (maybe they're pregnant or immune compromised or something)...

but those who don't even bother thinking and just because it's uncool or unmanly or all the people in their group just aren't gonna do it just because...

well I was gonna say something worse about them...

but...

Cerberus

Some of those people will die.

2

Mitch

dang it

Cerberus

Which is not good for them, probably.

Mitch

I can go home now

Cerberus

02:04

Nor for the nuts who encouraged them, because many such nuts reap their votes or their money.

Mitch

and have some boiled berts

Cerberus

Which will be unavailable post mortem.

Poor Bert.

Mitch

with sliced onions and oil and vinegar

Cerberus

I always found him the most sympathetic character.

Mitch

everything is better with oil and vinegar and sure maybe a sprinkle of salt and pepper

@Cerberus He's a bit uptight. and the butt of all of Ernie's pranks.

which are funny

But Bert has a connection to reality that Ernie does not.

Cerberus

02:07

@Mitch Uptight and cynical.

My favourite traits.

Mitch

But to the point about vaccines... all this herd immunity stuff is to help protect those people who for whatever reason can't get the vaccine. All the people with the vaccine are ... let's say safe.

and those without it are not safe.

Cerberus

Yes.

Mitch

and those who choose not to get it are driving fast cars without seat belts.

Cerberus

There probably won't be enough of those people to prevent herd immunity.

Mitch

I feel like there will be here

also in France.

What the hell, France.

and frankly the nature of the virus is that very few people will actually get it, so a lot of the idiots will think 'See, I didn't get the vaccine and I'm fine'

What, are they waiting for the actual plague to learn the lesson?

When do you change to DST? in two weeks?

Cerberus

02:12

Here, 85.5% say yes, they will get vaccinated; 10.3% say they are not sure yet.

This was a month ago.

Xanne

Airlines could require vaccination certificates for passengers.

Cerberus

> The highest percentage was found in the UK with 89 per cent of those questioned in favor of taking a vaccine, up from 70 per cent in December. In Sweden, the rate was 76 per cent against 53 in December, in the US 64 per cent against 58, in Germany 73 against 63 and in Japan 64 against 50.

France was the country in the study with the least enthusiasm at 59 per cent, but favorable opinions about vaccines were still sharply up from the 40 per cent level seen in December.

Mitch

@Xanne I'd be surprised if they don't already.

Cerberus

That was on or shortly before March 1 of this year.

@Xanne The EU is working on this.

Mitch

@Cerberus 40% is what I remember about France. Glad to see that changing.

Cerberus

02:15

Yeah.

When people see those vaccinated are fine, that helps.

And when the large majority have been vaccinated, people tend to follow eventually.

Only religious nuts will remain.

Mitch

@Cerberus In the US, Walmart, Target, Costco and other huge stores are mandating masks even in US states where the governor has said no masks in general for the state.

Invisible hand of the market

Cerberus

And why are they doing that?

Mitch

@Cerberus religious nuts giving lots of believers a bad name.

Cerberus

Director's decision, because she feels it is the right thing?

Xanne

There are still outbreaks of measels, which is a pretty bad illness.

Cerberus

02:18

@Mitch They already have...

Mitch

@Cerberus I think because the corporate leadership is doing the right thing.

Cerberus

@Xanne Yes, but here we only have measles in the Bible Belt and in the occasional anthroposophical village.

Mitch

Also because those big box stores have gutted small businesses in rural areas so much that the only place to buy things for miles is one of these stores.

Meaning they do it because they can.

Cerberus

Perhaps also because their cashiers demand it?

Mitch

@Cerberus where is your bible belt? northeast? Groningen?

Cerberus

02:20

@Mitch No, it's actually on the border between the Protestant north and the Catholic south!

Mitch

@Cerberus Walmart in particular is a non-union company. I don't know how they do it but somehow they don't allow unions in their workers.

Cerberus

Just inside the Protestant area, of course (only Protestants get that crazy in large enough numbers here, Calvinists).

@Mitch The concept of not 'allowing' unions is incomprehensible to me.

Mitch

@Cerberus the two extremes not much into the believing part but those stuck between have to show they're holier than either side?

Cerberus

@Mitch Yes, but only the Protestant frontier!

The Catholic marks don't care.

Mitch

@Cerberus I feel like there has to be laws against keeping unions from forming here, but I've definitely heard there are no unions at Walmart.

@Cerberus What time do your grocery stores close in the evening?

Cerberus

02:23

> 22. Archaic or History/Historical. a boundary; frontier.

Mitch

@Cerberus oh yeah I recognized your meaning

Cerberus

I'm so glad I managed to use the very last definition listed in the dictionary.

@Mitch Weird!

Mitch

which dictionary?

Cerberus

@Mitch Depends. In the cities, normally 22.00 (used to be 18.00 when I grew up). Now, 20.45 because curfew begins at nine.

Mitch

When are you changing clocks (if at all) for Daylight Savings time?

Cerberus

02:24

dictionary.com/browse/mark

@Mitch Uhh I'll check.

Sunday 18 March.

It's in my electronic calendar automatically.

Mitch

@Cerberus Ah. So some loosening of shop hours (outside of covid times (though it'd be nice to have them open late at night to reduce crowding during popular hours))

Cerberus

@Mitch Loosening, compared to when?

Mitch

@Cerberus OK. so only 1 week different from here. I think UK is in two weeks?

very annoying

for me

personally

Cerberus

No idea!

Do you need to remember time differences between your location and other continents?

Mitch

@Cerberus loosening from 1800 to 2200.

good for customers.

annoying for workers.

Cerberus

02:27

Yes, and they also used to be closed entirely on Sundays!

Mitch

@Cerberus sometimes.

Cerberus

@Mitch Well, workers can usually pick their own hours, and they get paid extra!

Mitch

@Cerberus same in the US

or wait

you could buy necessary food on Sundays but not snacks or liquor

Cerberus

My friend, who used to work at the supermarket in the Central Station, got paid 300% on Sundays between 18.00 and 0.00.

So I think he made €21 an hour.

Mitch

@Cerberus huh

Cerberus

02:28

It was either €17 or €21.

Mitch

@Cerberus not too shabby...

Cerberus

Which is crazy for cashier work.

Mitch

wait.... regular would be calculates...

E6 ?

Cerberus

If you work at the same shop, during office hours, and you're 16, you'll probably make €3.50 an hours (no joke).

Mitch

that's pretty shabby

Cerberus

02:29

Maybe it wasn't 300%.

But, yes, it normally pays pretty badly.

Probably minimum wage.

Mitch

when I grow up maybe I'll consider another profession

Cerberus

Which I think might be €10 if you're over 21, not sure.

Mitch

oh

Cerberus

@Mitch Let's hope that will be a long time from now.

Mitch

yes

because it'll take me a while to mature

Cerberus

02:31

> Bruto uurloon AH, vakkenvuller, caissière, verkoper:
Leeftijd Salaris per uur
22 jaar en ouder € 12
21 jaar € 10,50
20 jaar € 9
19 jaar € 7,76
18 jaar en functiejaar € 6,74
18 jaar € 6,68
17 jaar € 6,05
16 jaar € 5,29
15 jaar en jonger € 4,58

Bruto uurloon AH, vakkenvuller, caissière, verkoper, 13 uur of meer per week:
Leeftijd Salaris per uur
22 jaar en ouder € 9
21 jaar € 7,85
20 jaar € 6,75
19 jaar € 5,80
18 jaar en functiejaar € 5
18 jaar € 4,95
17 jaar € 4,55
16 jaar € 3,98
15 jaar en jonger € 3,45

Bruto = gross

So you make less if you work more hours a week.

Mitch

oh ok I didn't get that

Cerberus

This is the largest supermarket chain.

Mitch

but makes sense

from the corporate point of view

lidl?

Cerberus

Yes.

Albert Heijn.

Mitch

oh

Cerberus

02:32

I mean the largest in the country.

Mitch

yes

Cerberus

Lidl might be larger internationally.

Mitch

I'm hungry just thinking of grocery stores.

all that food

just -sitting- there

Cerberus

Most of it is not that great, though.

Thinking of pillaging?

Mitch

Pillaging?

No I'd pay for it.

Cerberus

02:34

Oh.

I suppose that is also an option.

Mitch

Pillaging probably would involve making a big mess.

That just seems like a waste

It'd be really cool if it were for free.

Cerberus

You could break the windows very cleanly.

Mitch

But that seems a little unrealistic.

Xanne

You could just eat it in the store.

Cerberus

Sure.

Mitch

02:35

@Cerberus That's pretty hard to do.

Cerberus

You could live in the store.

Mitch

uh...I think I've said too much

Cerberus

Hide somewhere inside during the day.

Mitch

@Xanne OMG I hate it when people do that. It's not some barbarian buffet

Cerberus

Actually, you only need to hide close to when the shop opens or closes.

When it's closed, you can eat your belly full and walk around as it pleases you.

Mitch

02:36

Take it through the checkout, pay for it and then as you're rolling the shopping cart out the door, rip off the carton top and chug that milk all you want.

Cerberus

During opening hours, you can leave the shop and do whatever normal people do (I wouldn't know).

Mitch

@Cerberus I don't mean to burst your ballon but really it's freezing in the grocery store.

Everything you said ... yes, sure. But you have to wear a winter coat like you're outside.

Xanne

It’s not as good as it used to be, with the delis disappearing.

Mitch

@Xanne Wha?

Oh like the deli buffet area is all prepackaged now?

Cerberus

@Mitch You could sleep in the bakery part.

Near the ovens.

Mitch

02:39

and you can't go up to the deli and ask for your very specifically sized 1 and 2/3 lb of smoked no fat turkey breast?

Cerberus

Or even inside one if you can manage.

Mitch

@Cerberus Go on

Cerberus

Make sure to set your alam.

Mitch

@Cerberus That sounds like a Russian fairy tale

Cerberus

Lest you should be baked once the shop opens.

Xanne

02:40

All prepacked here in C A. Can’t just grab a fork and enjoy yourself.

Cerberus

Just rip off the packaging!

Mitch

@Xanne I haven't seen delis closed here (MA) but definitely everything is prepacked at the salad bar/olive bar.

I don't think I've been to the deli area or bothered noticing in a year so I can't tell

@Cerberus If this were a Russian fiary tale, I would totally be an idiot sleeping in the oven.

If this were someone's home, I'd probably be a cat.

because they sometimes sleep on the stove

Cerberus

Why not a rat?

Mitch

near the pilot light.

Cerberus

I once had a mouse inside my oven.

Mitch

02:43

Conceptually, that's possible. But frankly I've never been so lucky to experience that.

Cerberus

Not inside the compartment where you put your bread, but inside the part that you normally don't see.

Mitch

@Cerberus I hesitate to ask... alive?

Cerberus

Perhaps once.

Mitch

@Cerberus Where you store the pans?

Cerberus

At some point, something began to smell inside my house, but the smell always disappeared fairly quickly.

At some point I realised the smell got worse after I turned the oven on...

@Mitch No, it was a combination oven-microwave.

Mitch

02:44

I suppose that's better than a dead fish slipped into the sofa cushions

Cerberus

The dead mouse was where the electronics are when you screw open the backside.

Which gets warm when the oven is turned on.

Mitch

@Cerberus Oh...actually... I -have- had that

not rats.

Cerberus

Oh, really.

Mitch

those guys are way to big to fit.

Cerberus

Yes.

Mitch

02:45

also they're too smart. I'm mean it's an effing oven!

If only rats could speak

They'd say 'Stupid mice. Don't be like them'

Cerberus

(A few days ago, I also had a bad smell in the kitchen, and I couldn't figure out what it was. It wasn't the rubbish, nor something in the fridge. Turned out to be a rotten potato in a plastic bag of potatoes. Those things stink!)

(I've had this before.)

Mitch

ugh

yeah

pretty weird and gross smell

Cerberus

I wonder why potatoes smell that weirdly and that badly.

I mean, they're as bad as dead mice.

Nothing like e.g. rotten fruit or vegetables.

Those just smell like alcohol and/or mould.

Mitch

dead mice will bring flies. rotten potatoes won't (probably)

Cerberus

Maybe!

Although I don't recall seeing flies near a dead mouse inside the house.

Mitch

02:48

but apropos of everything:

11 hours ago, by Mitch

Also, more importantly, daylight saving time can go to hell.

Cerberus

Perhaps that depends on the season. I don't have any flies whatsoever now.

Might also be because there are no tourists.

Those things leave rubbish everywhere, which attracts pests.

Mitch

I'm not racist but...

Cerberus

But you're a tourist?

Mitch

When the English are around there are more flies

Cerberus

Where are they around?

Mitch

02:49

also things smell a lot worse

@Cerberus Around the town

Cerberus

Why?

I thought you'd kicked them out.

Mitch

Tourists

Cerberus

Ugh.

Mitch

the worst

takes puff off of a cigar

one good thing that came out of the virus

no tourists.

No English tourists

Cerberus

I didn't know your town also had a tourist problem.

Mitch

02:52

Not really

Downtown Boston gets a lot of international tourists, but I don't live there so it's fun to hear Italian or Norwegian just walking down the street.

Cerberus

It depends on the number of tourists visiting a neighbourhood relative to the population, and to the available area.

Would you say the inner city has a problem with tourists, normally?

Mitch

no no problem at all, quite the opposite, the kinds of tourists attracted to Boston are very welcome.

desirable even

Cerberus

Good.

It's the kind, and the number.

Mitch

The closest we get to a bad crowd are hockey fans that snarl up one part of downtown near the arena.

But it's nowhere near as awful as soccer hooligans rioting after a football match

OK. DST is messing with me. gotta try to go to bed earlier to get back on track.

later

Cerberus

@Mitch Oh, of course, a hooligan is worse than a tourist!

That's why the problem is their number.

If ten million rioting hooligans visited Amsterdam that would certainly be worse than the ten million foreign tourists we receive now each year (on top of domestic tourists).

Robusto

04:34

@Mitch Walmart failed in Germany for that reason.

Why Walmart Failed In Germany - Cheddar Examines

►

Apparently Germany doesn't think unions are a bad thing, or that unions and management ought to have an adversarial relationship.

3

Walmart management were, as the Brits say, gobsmacked.

SmokeDetector

06:10

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at beginning of body (43): What American accent should I learn? ✏️ by user238169 on english.SE

M.A.R.

06:27

@Mitch well, we've got the material for it. I mean, for WWII, there's Normandy and getting ambushed by a Tiger and stuff. We instead have ourselves this area which was essentially Verdun in how many shells and rockets hit it, and we can't make a good movie about it

I mean, whenever a people has felt wronged, art has sorta suffered too. After Nanking, every war movie the Chinese make about it is like that crazy '50s movie you have no idea why you're watching, because it's just so clear who the bad guys and the good guys are

And essentially all the war movies we have are also '50s style

Although, recently, they've sorta made it worse. In the name of trying to unite the two countries, they started portraying lots of Ba'athi officers repenting and stuff, and even if the idea is noble, if propagandist, the execution is terrible and they look a lot like Ba'athi apologists

I mean, there was this . . . show, I think, where a Ba'athi torturer, essentially a high-ranking SS officer, was travelling to Mashhad to ask for forgiveness. Yeah, not effing likely.

CowperKettle

07:31

Word of the day: musher (dog sled rider)

CowperKettle

08:06

5

My translations of Ukrainians songs will be used in a fantasy novel about dinosaur-riding cossacks.

Наш отаман Гамалія (Ukrainian Cossack song)

►

M.A.R.

09:03

@CowperKettle Mein Gott!

CowperKettle

11:41

A 19 yo hockey player died in Russia after a puck struck him in the neck, damaging the carotid artery.

I never knew you could damage the carotid without actually cutting the neck. It must be a strong and wide artery.

CowperKettle

13:29

Chief Editor of the RT channel said today that "all foreign social networks should be banned in Russia.. they are weapons in a war" govoritmoskva.ru/news/266978

Mitch

@M.A.R. In the US there's a long tradition of war movies, and a number of them are artistically excellent (Saving Private Ryan, Dunkirk, Apocalypse Now) but there are thousands of awful ones (The Dirty Dozen, Battleship, Pearl Harbor) whose only appeal is to eight year old boys. Maybe the good filmmakers there just aren't interested in making good war movies.

@M.A.R. that could make a good story because of its improbability. ... could.

M.A.R.

13:44

@Mitch They don't seem interesting in making any good movies, but yeah

@Mitch well, it could make a great story. But it's improbable that a propagandist bootlicker would be able to tell it in an appealing way

Mitch

@M.A.R. I'd find it hard to craft a story with a regular audience in mind -and- having to figure what will get past censors.

CowperKettle

I had a dream today that I was part of some army of gnomes in Lord of the Rings, and we were dressing up for a battle. I was sorry that I had not trained with swords enough, because the sword felt heavy.

M.A.R.

@Mitch Yeah I think that's a big part of why we don't make things anymore. Censors have grown more and more pedantic over the years.

Mitch

But I've heard some say that restrictions like that are like prods to creativity. Something like too much freedom stifles creativity.

M.A.R.

I'm pretty sure there is talent

Most of the same people who made good movies a couple of decades ago are still alive, if not as robust

We could make an Iranishman movie and deage them

Mitch

13:55

@CowperKettle You're not alone. Everyone of the gnomes feels that way.

CowperKettle

I watched the Iranian movie "The Separation of Nader from Simin" and it was good.

I watched it in about 2013 or 2012

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle I dreamt one day that everyone besides Dany got killed and I have to protect her and stuff

Censors are more pedantic because they, the regime, are more hypocritical than before

CowperKettle

When I take Mg + B6 + Zn supplements, the dreams get especially rich in plot line terms. Even just Mg + B6 makes dreams more likely to be memorized. Probably it's just the ability to memorise, not the quality of dreams per se.

Mitch

@M.A.R. I had a dream that I have a meeting in 5 minutes but I spent too much time in ELU chat and was almost late to the meeting and hadn't setup my zoom background to the surface of Mars so everyone could see the mess.

M.A.R.

I see it that way, at least. Censoring is a cheap way to say you still care about some ideology while you don't. When people did believe in something, they didn't need to show it to everyone

@Mitch I think I've had a similar dream to that

@CowperKettle Heh, that's cool

Mitch

13:58

@M.A.R. I feel like I'm having that dream right now, it's so life-like.

M.A.R.

@Mitch if you kill yourself, you'll wake up

CowperKettle

@M.A.R. reddit.com/r/Fitness/comments/3d0t46/…

Mitch

@M.A.R. uh..

M.A.R.

@Mitch The magic box said so

I want to try it too

Or will we go to a Japanese palace at Limbo, Austria?

@Mitch BTW it was a reference to Inception. If the joke was too crass and out of place, I apologize

Robusto

@CowperKettle Dreams are remembered or recalled, not memorized. Memorization describes a conscious study of something for the purpose of remembering. Dreams, by definition, are not at all conscious.

CowperKettle

14:58

> On average, the risk of marijuana use is 29% higher among workers earning piece work wages than among employees with a fixed salary, and the risks are 35% higher for using harder drugs and 45% higher for alcohol consumption.

Cerberus

15:26

@Robusto The lesson at the end of the video I would phrase differently, though: Walmart is evil.

Transcript for

English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…