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00:00
I have chatted in this room on most days for almost a decade.
And I use a full-sized keyboard.
Well by you typing fast, more of my time gets consumed. For example when I didn't know what was meant by "that seems like a stretch"
What are you suggesting?
Sometimes, one has to guess a bit, to see what another chatter is replying to.
It is usually assumed one replies to the last bit of text above it.
True, but less often when the person to whom they're speaking, is more careful.
00:03
Unless there is an arrow.
@NikeDattani I suppose so.
But one usually figures it out.
Ok I see that I used "codes" in the first 3 paragraphs then "programs" for the rest. I certainly don't like to say "computer programs" because it's a bit too long.
@Cerberus I had a problem here with you more than once, I never had a problem with M.A.R, and I don't have to spend so much time clarifying things with most people.
About my answer to that question:
maybe I was using "codes" at the beginning and then at some point I found "programs" to fit better in a sentence and then I did not switch back.
@NikeDattani Sure, I think leaving out computer is completely normal.
@Cerberus True, but I do worry that "program" can mean other types of programs.
@NikeDattani Or perhaps you echoed the question's terminology at first, then switched to terminology that felt 'better' to you later.
@NikeDattani In this context?
The truth is that I wouldn't have a problem with switching my instances of "programs" to "codes" in that answer.
@Cerberus Yes, I do sometimes worry about it when writing papers.
00:08
Of course you and people in your field are free to write in whichever way you please.
@Cerberus I thought about that too, but when I looked at the answer and considered how I'd feel about using the word "codes" instead of "programs" in a lot of instances, I would feel fine with it.
As long as you are aware of the fact that it will probably sound odd, and possibly non-native, to other native speakers.
3
@NikeDattani Noted.
@Cerberus true.
I'm also not the type of person that would echo someone's "incorrect" language usage if I believe it to be incorrect.
You can also see that I've edited people's posts 9 times more than the 2nd most frequent editor: mattermodeling.stackexchange.com/…
Haha that is quite a lot.
That means that I change people's word choices and grammar very very frequently, and I did not even think for a split-second to change "codes" to "computer programs" or "programs" in that question. In fact, I did change the title once, but not the word "codes" ;)
I changed "Using two different codes" to "Can I use two different codes?"
00:14
the bad part is not that it will sound bad to other native speakers.
The bad part is that it will sound bad to other *programmers*.
It's like calling a cello a big guitar. You can get away with it if your mother tongue is Dutch. But you just can't get away with it if you are a conductor.
@Cerberus When we talk about "codes" we're almost always talking to each other. If I were talking to someone that doesn't do a lot of computer programming, I probably wouldn't use the word "code" at all, since they are used to the word "software" or "computer program" because that's what MS Word and Google Chrome are typically called (they're not called "code").
@RegDwigнt "it will sound" -> "I think it will sound"
@RegDwigнt !!
@RegDwigнt Because "normal" people talk like crap? I dunno. You think Mandelstam talked like normal people?
@NikeDattani What if you're talking to programmers outside your field?
@Robusto I think Mandelstam talked too much.
00:17
@RegDwigнt And you listened.
@Cerberus this conversation is getting quite lengthy, and I have other work to do. But it depends on the context. Yes I would probably say "computer programs" to some programmers.
The bottom line, which I've been trying to say many times, is that "code" can be a countable noun, even in the programming context.
@Robusto no, I couldn't. It was so horrible to listen to, I had to put it to some lovely music first.
@NikeDattani Sorry, didn't mean to waste your time.
All I can say is that I agree with the others and that it sounds wrong to me.
And then translate it into English with your help. That sure made it more easily digestible.
Surely he could've done it himself. Just sayin.
@RegDwigнt I don't recall that you took any of my suggestions.
00:19
@Robusto no, what you don't recall is thanking me for taking all of your suggestions.
@Cerberus you've been arguing your side for so long that I wouldn't expect you to switch over and say "okay you're right" easily.
@RegDwigнt Which would never happen.
There is no reasoning given behind why it "sounds wrong"
Nov 21 '19 at 1:57, by Robusto
@RegDwigнt Bravo. You internalized my notes, made them your own, worked the problems, and presto ... out pops a lyric sheet! You're one shrewd motherfucker, Alex. Kudos.
Which is in no wise a thank-you.
00:20
In many cases, there is no really reason behind linguistic conventions or intuitions.
And again, I said it a few times. It will take time for it to sink in, if you were of the opposite opinion before.
if you held* the opposite opinion before.
I really doubt I will change my mind, we shall speak of this again in one year's time!
It took me a very long time on "un-learn" some of the grammar I used throughout a lot of my life.
I did say things like "less donuts" for a long time and it took me time to switch to "fewer donuts"
Some people in here just naturally know what "that's a stretch" means. We are native speakers or fluent non-natives. In this chat we know pretty much what everyone is saying, even when they lapse into solecism or fat-finger a typo. And we don't feel it's a waste of our time, because that's mainly what we do here. It's called "chat" for a reason, and it means "to converse in an easy, familiar manner; talk lightly and casually."
@NikeDattani By the way, you can edit your own lines by pressing the Up arrow key on your keyboard, when the cursor is in the empty text area.
@NikeDattani Goodness gracious, think of the children!
00:22
@NikeDattani there is no reasoning behind anything to sound wrong. The only reason that anything sounds wrong is because not enough people use it. There are no other reasons.
@Robusto It is something that requires some getting used to, though.
@Cerberus By saying it that way, you're making it harder for you to change your mind.
You're "doubling down"
I suppose so.
But, after considering all the evidence, I had already made up my minds.
Perhaps Third Head might lapse eventually. We shall see.
@Robusto yes, and that'd be one valid reason to not remember it. I never said you didn't have valid reasons.
What I meant when I said "no reason was given", was a reason such as
00:27
@RegDwigнt I knew you would have to make it your own, which is all that I was saying.
You have to make it your own or you can't create with it.
Anyway, why are you still up?
Well yes. My point exactly. You have to make poetry your own to even understand it.
when I looked up whether to spell it "realise" or "realize" I found a rule that states that sigma -> s and zeta -> z, and "ize" come from the greek "ίζω" or "izo" with a zeta. That's not a rule that everyone likes or follows or agrees with, but I found the rule makes so much sense to me that I choose to follow it. I see no reason like that not to use "codes" as a countable noun in some cases, and neither do you it seems.
If you look online for long enough, you'll see that it's very common.
@Robusto good question. Every time at this time on a Friday I berate myself for not having long gone to bed.
And then every time I stay up till like six.
And then the first piano lesson is at like ten and I get no sleep at all.
@NikeDattani if you look online for long enough, you will find proof for anything at all. That's what "long enough" means.
Rule 34.
@NikeDattani I agree: when a convincing reason is found, that can be an important factor in deciding on the correctness or felicity of an utterance or expression.
@RegDwigнt I really don't know what you're trying to say, and I'm not sure I'm very interested, sorry.
00:32
Conversely, though, when no convincing reason has been found (yet), that doesn't mean x must be correct and/or felicitous.
@NikeDattani thank you, and likewise.
@Cerberus We can argue forever, but as I wrote a few times, it will take time for it to sink in. Good night, thanks for chatting.
Yes, sleep well.
@Cerberus Call your momma a bulldozer until it sinks in.
Just takes time.
Anyway. Why are we talking about bulldozers?
Because some people are too busy to talk about the really important things.
00:35
Excavators?
Yet they talk about unimportant things until we're all blue in the face.
Steamrollers!
Colder.
A steamroller will sure make you blue in the face.
A steamroller blue me in the face?
00:36
I feel that a steamroller is the kind of thing a child would think up—but then it turns out they actually exist.
@Robusto It was an inside blow job.
@Cerberus are you saying children can't make new things?
That's racist.
In any case, let's just all agree that someone is wrong on the internet. Then drop it.
@Robusto how can you say that. That is so incorrect.
@RegDwigнt On the contrary: they could come up with a steamroller.
@RegDwigнt Oh yeah?
00:38
For one, my momma is wrong.
And she's not even on the Internet.
Your momma once wore the wrong shade of blue in 1978.
@RegDwigнt That pooooor woman!
@Cerberus That would go a long way towards explaining my birth the year after.
Puts "wrong" in another light, doesn't it.
@RegDwigнt I think it would take more than that.
00:39
@Robusto nah, she can afford more appartments than Trump.
Why did you have to bring him up?
Though to be fair, Trump can afford exactly zero appartments for since 1978 he has been permanently broke
No, he has the support of the richest man in the world: Putin.
@Robusto this is the Internet. This is where Trump brings up himself.
Sorry it has been a very very long day and I'd been chatting with people here for several hours about just one topic, and I'd said a lot of times that I was soon going to go. Then the words "you will find proof for anything at all" made no sense to me and it was followed by what looked to be an exaggeration or sarcasm, and I just wasn't in the mood for it.

But I thought it was Cerberus saying it not someone new to the conversation (I've been looking at the screen for several hours so it's no surprise I made that mistake), so I wasn't interested in pursuing that comment further. Now I see i
00:41
It used to be the Internet. Then it got really boring all of a sudden.
@Robusto yeah all the smart people moved on to Twitter and Facebook. Alas.
This is what I call "conversational diseling." You could look it up.
I could.
But what is your point.
22
A: Is there an English phrase for an inability to actually *leave* already?

RobustoI coined a phrase a few years back. I call it conversational dieseling. As those familiar with internal combustion engines will tell you, dieseling happens when a gasoline engine is switched off but enough fuel mixture still gets into the cylinders and ignites from the heat, causing the engine to...

@NikeDattani Don't worry, we chat here every day, we've seen everything! No need to continue a conversation if you don't want to, absolutely no hard feelings or anything.
00:43
@Robusto I was going to say it was Martha.
Martha I like.
Martha invented everything, this is true.
@Cerberus Thwack.
I sure hope Martha did not invent Orbán.
I miss Martha.
@RegDwigнt That, too, yes.
I never knew she was Hungarian.
Martha even invents Hollywood movies, apparently.
@Cerberus I don't think she herself was Hungarian. Parents maybe?
She spoke fluent Hungarian. It was her mother tongue.
Or was it her mother's tongue? Discuss.
00:46
And she visited every other year like.
Well, I never saw her birth certificate, so who knows?
The people who did?
Just guessing.
You can't prove anyone ever saw that.
Mar 24 '11 at 1:44, by Martha
But I don't know of any folk songs about ethnographic regions. (At one point I knew something like 200+ Hungarian folk songs.)
Not proof of anything.
00:50
Mar 23 '11 at 23:16, by Martha
(Well, ok, so I was born and raised in Southern California, and currently live in PA, but my first language was Hungarian.)
How about this, then.
See? Born and raised in SoCal.
You press me, I'll find her birth certificate, too.
@Robusto Hmm I see.
But once again, it proves I was right. Not Hungarian herself, but her parents were. Unless they were fluent Hungarian speakers from France or Botswana or something.
Maybe.
I'm actually watching footage from the point of view of a phone scammer.
Someone hacked his computer.
So he could see all that the scammer was doing.
Conning an old woman, Nancy, into going to the bank and transferring 19,000 dollars.
00:52
Hang on, just looking through my Botswana files. That's on a different hard drive.
He already got her to scan her driver's licence.
@Cerberus She had $19 thousand in the back? Please, we are very busy here, and can't abide your typos.
Ack.
The hard drive that will prove you wrong for the first time in your life is in a secure place, and I'm saving it up for a special occasion.
Here on the Internet I don't really need it, because this is where everyone thinks you're always wrong all the time anyway.
@RegDwigнt Putin already tried that. He has no pee tape about me, so I laughed at him.
00:54
Of course he no got it. I has it.
Nope.
And I'm not telling him where it is.
Anyway.
And I'll keep yours secret as well.
My Botswana files are telling me, "Im Jahr der Unabhängigkeit 1966 gab es in Botswana nur wenige erfolgreiche Schulabgänger." I will be brutally honest with you, I have no idea what to do with that kind of information.
@Robusto not to worry, I hand out mine like crisps.
Yeah, but that Unabhängigkeit ... seems like you could have arrived at that conclusion independently.
00:58
Tell that to the Botswanians. Took them 1966 years.
I keep telling them and telling them.
No luck.
Is Putin really the richest man?
Of what?
Botswana maybe.
The richest man without qualifications.
@Cerberus I've heard it said he has something like $280 billion stashed away in these or those holdings.
01:00
19 mins ago, by Robusto
No, he has the support of the richest man in the world: Putin.
That's more even than Jeff Bezos.
It may be true.
Well, there's one regular in this room who pays him taxes.
One wonders how much other dictators have stashed away.
You can't take it with you when you go.
01:00
@RegDwigнt YOU DON'T KNOW THAT
> Another individual who has more or less ruled a petroleum-rich nation for about two decades now is likewise rumored to secretly have a net worth in excess of $200 billion. We are, of course, talking about Vladimir Putin. But is Putin actually the richest person in the world, or are these just rumors?
You heard of Berlusconi?
I read it on the Internet so it must be true.
@RegDwigнt Never.
I read on the Internet that Berlusconi is dying of Corona.
01:01
He's been infected and is now in hospital.
Not dying, not even in intensive care.
Yeah that's what they said about Johnson, too.
And look how many times he died.
But of course Berlusconi may yet die.
@Cerberus He got in intensive care for three days and only got saved because he's a character from the Sesame Street made of old curtains and sawdust.
> “He takes what he wants, When you are the president of Russia you don’t need a written contract. You are the law.”
Berlusconi is made of 100% Bunga-Bunga. There's no surviving that.
01:03
@Cerberus I think the coronavirus is afraid of getting Berlusconi.
2
@Robusto also true of Warner Bros.
You're thinking of Sam Goldwyn.
And Disney.
@Robusto no thank fuck I never.
"Verbal contracts are worth the paper they're printed on." —Sam Goldwyn
And look where his company is now.
All the 007s in the world couldn't save him.
01:05
@RegDwigнt I thought he was never intubated?
It is of course true that Berlusconi is in much worse shape.
@RegDwigнt Him not care. Him dead.
Even so, most people survive the disease.
@Cerberus Yes. And I thought Skrypal was never poisoned. Your point being?
So it's too early to tell how Berlusconi will fare.
It's never too early to say things on the Internet.
01:06
This is the live view of how those scammers work.
In fact if anything, you don't wanna be too late.
Quite interesting to watch.
Next week it's five other dictators dying.
Bolso survived.
And Putina junior has already been vaccinated.
@Cerberus That's because he's not a dictator. You seen his approval ratings? Higher than ever.
01:07
Yeah, that was weird.
I wonder how that happened.
Well all the people who hated him died of Corona.
Yeah, if Corona is a nerve agent.
@Robusto Get with the programme. It's a new dictator every minute.
We'll be talking Pol Pot in a jiffy.
Don't say I didn't warn you.
So anyway. I was going to say I'm taking doggy's video as my ticket outta here.
@Robusto that doesn't look like polonium tea. Looks like Fanta piss.
01:11
Worse.
Miller lite?
Let's not say things we can't take back.
I have drunk more Corona over the past couple of months than ever before.
How about you?
That's why America will always win. They're already drinking much worse things than anything a bunch of wasted Russky chess players can come up with.
@Cerberus Nope.
01:13
@Cerberus so has everyone from what I hear. Yet I've never even tried it.
BTW, we're going to have to stop using the phrase "avoid it like the plague" because it turns out Americans don't do that.
Why should I. We have like 5000 proper beers here.
Hmm.
@Robusto just you wait till you hear about the Indians.
Yeah, I never went wanting for beer in Deutschland.
01:14
@RegDwigнt Of course.
I mean. The proper Indians. Not your Indians.
But this one is sweetened.
I did say it wasn't proper.
We have plenty of good beers here as well.
Yes, yes, same as above.
01:15
We mostly drink Dutch and Belgian beers here, also some German ones.
Belgian is okay. Except the cheap stuff, that's horrible.
The cheap stuff is all rather samey to me.
I don't mind it.
But, yeah, the good stuff does not come cheap.
Neither do good prostitutes.
@Cerberus Not to me it isn't. A friend just brought me a can from Belgium, of the most cheapest beer he could find in all the country.
@Robusto They do if they like you enough.
01:16
I almost fell over and never again got up.
@Cerberus Have you met a prostitute?
Them's all about the cash.
Some of his best friends are prostitutes.
You can give me the cheapest Aldi beer and I'll drink it, as long as it's cold and cannot compare it with anything else.
Including a neighbor.
Oh, do you live in the red light district, @Cerb?
01:17
@Robusto I can hear a prostitute discussing basically anything with her clients every day if I have my kitchen window open.
@Cerberus yes, that's what Litvinenko said.
She is from Slovakia.
@Robusto yes, we call it "the Netherlands".
She does the job to pay for her studies.
One of her clients had something on which she commented, "oooh, it's hairy".
Of course.
01:18
She has been working here for many years now.
Of course. Studying takes a lot of time.
You study all life long.
See? Amsterdam has the best weed. Who needs beer?
@RegDwigнt Yeah, I don't know what the deal is.
But that's what she says.
Of course.
01:20
The trouble comes when they put the blueberry in the beer.
She also says it costs fifty euros.
What now. The study or the hairy.
She didn't say.
Just "it".
@Cerberus They usually are.
You could buy a house in Slovakia for fifty euros.
Probably a whole university.
01:24
You know, I thought the Netherlands was a progressive place, but if you force young women into prostitution to earn money for school ...
New is old. Progressive is what everyone else stopped doing.
@Robusto Well, she is not from here.
Here the university is literally free. And here was on her way to Holland.
From Slovakia, as I said.
I could've given her shelter, too. And she wouldn't have to sleep with anyone. /r/GoodGuy #VirtueSignaling
01:26
So you bring Slovakian girls in and force them into prostitution to go to school?
She brought herself in.
And who knows what her life is really like.
Well if you don't know it, nobody does.
She does.
You know, I doubt that.
And perhaps the social workers who talk to her do.
They talk to all the girls.
01:29
That right there is a solid reason for the girls to not be there in the first place.
In unrelated news, the biggest brothel in all of Cologne, and one of the biggest in all of Europe, just filed for bankruptcy.
@Cerberus Does she speak Dutch?
She better do in that line of trade.
@RegDwigнt Another sad coronavirus story?
@Robusto another 100 potential neighbors for Cerberus.
And yes, corona.
@RegDwigнt Maybe the first case of disease preventing intercourse.
01:36
Well it's not preventing intercourse. It's just moving it across the bridge to the Netherlands.
What bright mind was it the other day that suggested people should wear masks during sex?
@Robusto Not with her clients.
Was some politician somewhere, I forget.
The only other time I have ever heard her speak was when she was standing beneath my window.
She didn't speak Dutch then either.
So I don't know.
How does she study at the university, then.
Do they teach in Slovakian?
Perhaps she attends a Slovak university part of the year.
A great many programmes at Dutch universities are in English.
Lastly, she may very well speak Dutch, no idea.
01:39
I see.
Or she could be planning to attend university later, saving up.
Or she could have been lying.
Certainly to herself.
To herself or only to her client.
No way to tell.
So you don't talk to her directly, you just hear her talking from the street?
I hear her talking through my kitchen window all the time.
But I cannot see her.
01:41
For 50 euro, you can.
I have only heard her anywhere else once, on the street.
That's how I know what she looks like.
@RegDwigнt Indeed.
Just mercantile conversations with her johns?
Or I could just walk around the corner and look at her window.
You should strike up a conversation, see how long she wants to talk without anyone paying her.
@Robusto With her clients, she has lots of different conversations about many different subjects.
01:42
Interesting.
Sep 12 '18 at 22:14, by Robusto
I did once pick up a prostitute by accident, though. I thought she was hitchhiking late at night in Chicago, and I worried for her safety. She looked 17.
Nuclear physics.
My one and only conversation with a prostitute. That I know of.
Nice.
She didn't want to make small talk.
Many neighbours do make small talk with the prostitutes, though, if they live in the same street.
But this is the street parallel to mine.
01:43
Well that's just passing the downtime.
So you live above a prostitute display window?
So I never see here in the street except that one time, and then I was inside.
Oh, around the corner.
Yes, around the corner.
I don't know why I'm laughing at "a prostitute display window".
It's actually very sad. But it's so funny.
01:45
I did once talk online to this bloke who oversees the municipal brothel, which is also around the corner.
Municipal brothel. Even better.
Our mayoress is a staunch proponent of the brothel. It took years to arrange.
And let's not forget you're ruled by a king.
And it seems to be functioning well now.
Partly managed by the prostitutes themselves.
And partly by the city.
Much better than your regular brothel owner, methinks.
Safer and more reasonable in everything.
If you have the skills to manage a fucking brothel, certainly you have the skills to manage any other business at all.
And then they wonder why so few women are CEOs.
01:48
I'm not sure I understand.
Many prostitutes are far from stupid.
Though most are young and foreign.
So they are probably not up to managing all of the brother's goings-on.
@Cerberus Please, we are very busy. We don't have time for typos.
@Cerberus Yes yes you held that sermon before.
@Robusto inorite. It's like every other sentence now. What is even happening.
I think that other guy broke our doggy with his codes.
I am thinking very large thoughts here, and I don't have time for all the ways you don't measure up to my intellect, which is why I keep arguing about nothing forever in a chat room.
On that note, it's fucking 4 am and the last time I said I was going to bed was at 3 am and I've now spent a whole hour discussing hookers, Jesus Christ.
That's your excuse for everything.
01:51
I could've written a symphony. Nay, ten symphonies. Yay, twenty.
Anyway, I'm going to stop all this conversational dieseling and just leave.
So, night all!
picks up baton to signal to the audience that the performance is over
@Robusto it really should be. It's really quite appalling for how few things it actually is.
Latorzerino!
And good night to you.
And you doggy go to bed and try not to dream of bulldozers.
Über und aus.
Bummer to have to pay for an oober just to go aus.
 
2 hours later…
04:45
At the arboretum near the Ural State University
05:28
Word of the day: post-tribulational premillenialism
06:15
why must Instantgram need installing some App on a phone to upload pictures there?
doesn't that mean you must need a PDA phone-like device to update a picture to Instantgram?
07:03
Interesting gearbox, but it costs 3000 dollars
07:34
hola
 
2 hours later…
09:44
hola
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