English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:01

Hmm.

tchrist

00:40

Região Centro-Oeste do Brasil

A Região Centro-Oeste é uma das cinco regiões do Brasil definidas pelo IBGE em 1969. É formada por três estados: Goiás, Mato Grosso e Mato Grosso do Sul, mais o Distrito Federal, onde se localiza Brasília, a capital do país e a cidade mais populosa da região. Com uma área de 1 606 403,506 km², o Centro-Oeste é a segunda maior região do Brasil em superfície territorial, superada apenas pela Região Norte, sendo um pouco maior que a área do estado do Amazonas ou da Região Nordeste. Por outro lado, é a região menos populosa e possui a segunda menor densidade populacional. Por esse motivo, apresenta...

Centro-Oeste is a noun-noun compound.

In English the first noun in an NN compound is the one used attributively, but in Romance it is the second of the two.

It's not Oeste-Central, which would be clearly an adjective in the second position.

The main noun is Centro here.

Which Centro? The Oeste one.

So it's really the Western Center.

If you would.

It's not the Central West.

So he's making a mis-assignment here. The American Midwest contrasts with the American Far West. There clearly West is the head noun, and Mid or Far are modifying it.

I'm probably going to have to give up and use Latin to talk about this if I answer the question. :)

That is, to use an adjective I'll need to use occidental and oriental for western and easterns, just as you would need septentrional and meridional for northern and southern. Well, or boreal and austral. You know.

Spanish has a few derived adjectives, so they can say norteño instead of del norte.

But Portuguese would just say do norte.

But for western you just have occidental; there's nothing derived from oeste.

That's because fricking oeste is not Romance. It's a borrowing from the French who borrowed it from the English.

Same with este.

Or leste is Portuguese.

These were English words in origin. They got borrowed as nouns only; they don't form derived adjectives.

@Cerberus For adjectives, you must return to Latin.

Robusto

01:23

@CowperKettle It says "To whoever can read this, I love Vladimir Putin!"?

Cerberus

02:15

@tchrist Ah, OK.

@tchrist Wow, I didn't know that, but it makes sense phonologically.

It makes less sense historically, though!

Why would French borrow such an important word from English, of all languages!?

It should be noted that Dutch and German also have west.

CowperKettle

04:23

@Robusto Yes, it's a joke ))

CowperKettle

04:48

@M.A.R. I've had enought of conversations with people of his creed, and it was all a waste of time. They believe that an authoritarian rule is okay and emprisoning people for their views is okay, extra-judicial killings in order to support the regime is okay, dismantling of civil society institutions and elections is okay - as long as there is "stability".

It was all like playing checkers on a board on which you set your pieces on white boxes while your opponent places them on black boxes. There is no common ground for discussion, all arguments just fall into dead ground.

If a person believes that there is no freedom and democracy at all, that everything is relative, it's "moral relativism". You cannot hold an argument when there's absolutely nothing you can appeal to.

I was riding in a car where one woman was of this creed. We discussed the invasion of Ukraine, and her final argument was that yes, occupation is theoretically bad, you "Artyom, you are too naive. Sometimes a country must invade and occupy land to support its interests. And why are you raling against Putin if you have enough food and enough money to live well and to travel".

Against such an argument there is no counter-argument at all. A woman living in the Third Reich would have provided the same argument up to February 1943. There is no common ground, no basic common theorem or moral statement that you can ground your arguments.

Captain Bohemian

05:59

hungry

no automatic meal delivery

no studio downhill with computer

when I am hungry, I can't even compose the texts well expressing what I want to say

so hunger is really a trouble

When I am hungry, everyone looks like a debtee to me.

I wouldn't help anyone seeking help from me unless they serve me a meal first, even a moocher.

Xanne

06:32

@CowperKettle An unauthorized opposition rally in Moscow this month after the announcement of results in the referendum on amendments to the Russian Constitution.
An unauthorized opposition rally in Moscow this month after the announcement of results in the referendum on amendments to the Russian Constitution.Credit...Yuri Kochetkov/EPA, via Shutterstock

Not to mention the tens of thousands in the Far East.

These are trouble for Putin.

Captain Bohemian

I used to have a senior colleague Valdimir.

he was a kind person saying I can consult him for my questions when my supervisor wan't accessible to me.

Captain Bohemian

08:02

it's difficult to guess out what handpiece means.

M.A.R.

@CowperKettle well, there's a middle ground. Some of what he's saying makes sense, and some of what you're saying makes sense, but now I'm on mobile and can't be bothered to opine on the subject

Captain Bohemian

even after consulting a dictionary, I still don't quite know what handpiece is.

M.A.R.

A single anti-LGBT tweet can ruin a lifelong career in the west, so it's not like there are no repercussions to whatever you say, and freedom never meant that.

@CaptainBohemian in a broader sense, it's the part of a tool you hold with your hand, I think.

And there are more specialized definitions

Like in dentistry

@CowperKettle thing is, this subject seems to polarize you (pl.) and everyone grabs one extreme

And then there are Twitter images that can't prove anything in the history of things.

So a group of people are lying facedown, "Autocrats are the same everywhere"? There's some superman leap of logic there. Of course, could make sense with the context, but that's precisely what Twitter is designed like.

Captain Bohemian

@M.A.R. this is exactly what perplexes me.

M.A.R.

@CaptainBohemian well, take "spindle". It has a unique definition of its own, but it probably means a dozen different things in woodworking and has some specialized meanings in biology

Captain Bohemian

12:23

@M.A.R. have you seen the handpiece in a dentist's hand?

What does it look like?

M.A.R.

12:40

@CaptainBohemian Like a toothbrush but with a drill

Dang my teeth ache when I see that

You should suffer as well dentalseller.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800x800/…

Captain Bohemian

12:56

@M.A.R. I have never seen that kind of appliance. What is that used for?

Why is it called handpiece?

Cerberus

13:45

@M.A.R. I think it's less bad in Europe.

We have some Americanisation about Twitter messages, but you cannot fire someone.

Nor kick someone out of his house or school.

People should be allowed to be anti-gay and still have a life.

But, more importantly: a short message perceived to be anti-gay is absolutely no proof that this person is truly anti-gay.

So everyone should just ignore Twitter and similar.

Thankfully, Facebooks has begun its death spiral here.

Noöne under 30 uses it any more. This age will climb.

And most people between 30 and 40 no longer really use it either.

The last time I got a birthday invitation via Facebook was many years ago.

And nobody posts anything among my friends.

Of course I never did.

M.A.R.

@Cerberus That's also my impression

But whether you like it or not, America's considered the epitome of civilization

Until they no longer are, but I think there's a few years left to that

Robusto

14:02

@M.A.R. That was true of Greece once, and Rome, and many others. If history teaches us anything, it's that civilizations have their moment in the sun and then pass into the once-was and nevermore-shall-be.

M.A.R.

Yah :/

Ozymandias

Cerberus

@M.A.R. Uhh it never was.

Civilisation, really?

Rather the opposite.

M.A.R.

@Cerberus Well, maybe you don't count as outsiders, maybe not even us, but we're the closest to being it. Of course the metrics aren't always meaningful but to be the most powerful nation is also associated with what, say, our youngsters want our country to be.

That might or might not be called the "epitome of civilization" if we're being pedantic, but who cares.

Cerberus

I really don't understand.

Powerful, yes; civilisation, less so.

M.A.R.

@Cerberus A person who's never been to America or isn't "in" on the picture that should really be portrayed of America does not differentiate between them.

Cerberus

14:08

I don't know what that means.

M.A.R.

And you have too many of those people. 6 .5 billion people don't speak English.

Cerberus

Anyone knows the difference between power and civilisation.

M.A.R.

@Cerberus It means I get what you're saying but the average bloke doesn't.

Cerberus

Anyone knows that China is one of the most important civilisations on Earth.

It was no less civilised during its Century of Humiliation.

Your average bloke knows this, too.

Nobody would ever in his right mind have said that America was the epitome of civilisation just because it managed to loot the Summer Palace of the Chinese Emperors.

M.A.R.

I doubt that. I think that's the average bloke associates "power" with civilization, not in the sense that powerful nations are civil, but in the sense that powerful nations are the best the humanity can offer.

Cerberus

14:11

I'm sorry, but that doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.

> powerful nations are the best the humanity can offer

I don't understand this nor its implications.

The Mongol Empire was arguably the most powerful empire the world has ever seen.

It was certainly the largest, and also among the most uncivilised ones.

M.A.R.

It means, they believe, or rather I believe they believe, that "America is as good as we get, because it's the most powerful nation in the world".

Cerberus

I don't understand what that means.

But I have to go.

M.A.R.

@Cerberus Yes, that's what I believe, but not what I think the average person believes, or at least acts like

Cerberus

Sorry, makes no sense to me. Bye!

M.A.R.

OK. Ciao

Captain Bohemian

15:12

I am sleepy.

tchrist

18:06

If you're sleepy, nap.
If you're poopy, pop.
If you're happy, clap.
If you're droopy, drop.

If you're runny, race.
If you're flighty, flee.
If you're frilly, lace.
If you're pissy, pee.

Captain Bohemian

18:41

If everything can go as such, it would be so nice!

@tchrist If I am sleepy, that doesn't mean I can sleep.

If I am poopy, that doesn't mean I can pop.

tchrist

If you're Peggy, hang.
If you're Drummy, bang.
If you're Tommy, gun.
If you're Jerry, run.
If you're Sonny, shine.
If you're Sandy, grind.
If you're Kelly, blue.
If you're Barney, moo.

If you're Terry, rip.
If you're Bobby, dip.
If you're Fanny, blow.
If you're Jackie, throw.
If you're Donny, dress.
If you're Betty, guess.
If you're Henry, hank.
If you're Randy, wank.

tchrist

18:59

If you're funny, play.
If you're godly, pray.
If you're fuzzy, shave.
If you're cranky, rave.
If you're early, hunt.
If you're froggy, jump.

If you're hefty, heave.
If you're lefty, leave.
If you're hippy, dip.
If you're juicy, drip.
If you're lively, spark.
If you're gassy, fart.

If you're hungry, taste.
If you're busy, haste.
If you're funky, jam.
If you're porky, ham.
If you're lazy, slack.
If you're needy, ask.

Captain Bohemian

I am painful.

tchrist

If you're hurty, hurd.
If you're dirty, wash.
If you're glossy, word.
If you're hungry, gnosh.

If you're daffy, duck.
If you're goofy, putz.
If you're gnarly, knot.
If you're groovy, rut.

If you're dizzy, fall.
If you're creepy, crawl.
If you're catty, crouch.
If you're grumpy, grouch.
If you're catchy, sneeze.
If you're itchy, scratch.

If you're canny, tin.
If you're clammy, spread.
If you're chewy, gnaw.
If you're crappy, craw.

If you're chatty, yak.
If you're dodgy, skip.
If you're empty, fill.
If you're antsy, bide.
If you're drippy, drench.
If you're comely, fetch.

If you're finny, swim.
If you're feisty, fête.
If you're fiery, flame.
If you're flighty, flee.

If you're thirsty, drink.
If you're weary, rest.
If you're batty, flit.
If you're horny, honk.

Robusto

20:03

@tchrist What if you're iffy? I guess we have an answer for that.

Captain Bohemian

I finished a shower. I am wet.

tchrist

21:32

@CaptainBohemian If you're drippy, dry.

@Robusto If you're iffy, pick.

Robusto

@tchrist Too late. You've already supplied an answer with your many examples.

tchrist

Bad air.

Glenwood Springs has an Air Quality Index of 222 right now.

Robusto

Forest/brush fires?

tchrist

Very much so.

The one in Grand Junction is well over 70,000 acres and has been going for two weeks now.

The newer one in Glenwood Canyon is over 12,000 acres and has completely cut off I-70.

It's not like you can just "go around".

AQI data and smoke map from fire.airnow.gov

Tonight look to the west as the sun reddens on its way down.

Oh, and my numbers are days old, so it's rather worse now.

It's a 5–8 hour detour, each way.

Cerberus

21:49

Ouch.

tchrist

It's because of topography. Mountains. You just have no other way through. They've even had to close off some of the narrow little seasonal roads and passes because people are being stupid.

Normally it's around 4 hours of driving between Denver on the east side of the map and Grand Junction on the west. But now it will take a very long time, especially today. Cross-country trucking is detouring further even, and avoiding Colorado altogether by taking I-80 or even I-20 across instead of I-70; just depends where they're really going.

Robusto

That's our air quality today.

tchrist

It looks like it's backing up a little between Santa Fe and Albuquerque but the AQI seems fine still.

Robusto

The Jemez Mountains are about 50 miles away from where I paused in my ride today.

tchrist

To the south of me it looks like a serious storm, or the path of a total eclipse. But there's no cloud at all, just ash.

@Robusto Not much timber there.

Robusto

21:59

@tchrist When we get smoke it's usually from Arizona.

The mountains have a lot of trees, though. But there's a lot of land between them.

But now my computer needs to reboot. See you on the flip side.

tchrist

@Robusto Zooming out at airnow it looks like you're getting a bit of ours.

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