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12:00 AM
However, I ran out of water a couple miles from the summit.
@M.A.R. "Welcome to the club" is just an expression, meaning "we have the same problem," something like that.
 
Hmm better be careful!
 
Now you tell me.
 
Next time, I'll tell you in the past.
 
Good plan.
 
You should have been more careful!
Does that sound better?
 
12:04 AM
Roger.
 
Or "I told you so!!".
Everybody loves that.
 
Of course.
See how dark the vault of the heavens is at that altitude?
Lotta black behind that blue sky.
But you don't pump as much oxygen through your blood up there, that's for sure.
 
Quite dark.
@nohat Hi! You here.
Greetings from Us.
 
 
2 hours later…
1:43 AM
@M.A.R. Oh. Well, sure.
Things I think were five minutes ago really happened like 5 and 1/2 ago
It's time dilation.
You know, physics and shit.
 
 
2 hours later…
4:13 AM
 
4:24 AM
@CowperKettle Country or region?
 
5:20 AM
We Will All Go Together When We Go (although I was tempted to post New Math from recent chat).
Too many capital letters for a title.
 
5:40 AM
@CowperKettle Wow. I know all the words, but I don't know what he's saying.
Being on top of the graph is winning, that's just math.
 
6:18 AM
@Robusto I'm aware. I was just saying Hollywood's tosh is preferable to what we have now
A dying non-industry that once in a while tries to be a mirage of something that was or could have been
 
I think you just wrote GWTW in one sentence.
 
7:09 AM
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7:29 AM
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Bad keyword in answer, potentially bad keyword in answer, blacklisted user (158): ☎+1-657-529-2372 Buy verified IELTS certificate in Iraq by Louis Kimengz on english.SE
 
8:12 AM
Happy Independence Day! Hope you are as independent as possible.
So independent that you can't take it any more.
 
8:44 AM
@livresque Send not to know for whom the bell tolls . .
Anyway the Covid-19 metrics in popular use—new cases, new deaths—aren’t very enlightening. If the US is doing such a rotton job, it’s got a ways to go before it catches uo to it’s European brothers in deaths per nillion, maybe anoth
....maybe another 50-60,000 deaths to get to where the W,Europe countries are now., to have the same deaths per million. Uk, Spain, Italy, France, Sweden.
The U S states with the worst experience earlier are having the best of it now, along with the W. Europe states mentioned earlier.
But this is best only with these limited metrics. A sort of effort to hold on until a vaccine is available . . .cheaply. . .to those who need it most. Year, year and a half, if it works, for any length of time.
Stratergy Two: Try to reduce transmission to a trackable, traceable ,
(continued) isolate & quarantine model. Maybe some places, not much of world. Too wide spread already.
So the third strategy is to let the disease spread among the least vulnerable (young people, mostly) to get the highest population. immunity (or herd immunity) you can while protecting the vulnerable and the super-spreader events (bars, ball games).
This is what the U S is trying ti di, I think, after the March 25 th events.
My apologies for the typing errors.
Must sleep now.
 
 
1 hour later…
10:47 AM
Hi all! My English vocabulary lacks rare words and constructs. I want to improve it. For example, suppose I want to substitute the sentence "We follow the same spirit of the general treatment discussed in Ref.1" with an esthetically better sentence. Is there an online service that suggests similar sentences from which I can get inspiration?
 
 
2 hours later…
12:27 PM
@apt45 So what you want is proof-writing?
 
@Cerberus kind of, yes. But I don't want to pay someone else to do it, because I want to learn
 
OK, well, there aren't many free services on the Internet.
We're lucky to have the Q&A sites, like here on SE, but those are often bound by strict rules.
 
@Xanne Close, but no cigar. Donne wrote: "... never send to know for whom the bell tolls."
 
I am also happy to pay for a service, but I don't want a person to proof-write my draft. I was wondering whether there is a service AI-based, for example, which allows you to do it on your own. I am already using Grammarly, but it is not enough.
 
 
1 hour later…
1:45 PM
0
Q: Can someone check something on OED for me?

FrecklepawI don't have a subscription - I just need to check the dates of the entries for the following: portfolio career Can someone tell me when it was first added to the OED dictionary?

Why.
@Cerberus well yes, that's one option. But I hope you do realize that sound travels through a park completely differently from how it does through a concert hall.
 
 
1 hour later…
3:09 PM
@tchrist - I see you're still chatting. I hope that means everything is good (well, relatively)?
Is everyone normally in chat well?
 
@anongoodnurse Yes.
Despite the runaway pandemic.
 
I had a little scare. I finally saw my (medical) kids when the shelter at home order lifted. We all wore masks. A bit more than a week later, over the course of a morning, I lost most of my sense of smell and taste. That's it. I kept waiting for myalgias or a fever, but nothing. Waiting to get more symptomatic before getting tested, but... So now all is back to 'normal'.
@tchrist I'm glad to hear it. I've been wondering, with things spiking everywhere.
 
@anongoodnurse Anosmia may be a better early indicator than fever.
"Better" probably isn't a good word there.
 
@tchrist It usually preceeds other symptoms.
@tchrist "better" may be correct, too.
 
How long did your nurse son continue to test positive?
 
3:19 PM
But it was very strange.
@tchrist They stopped testing him after 5 positives over about 7 weeks.
they just sent him back to work. O_o
 
That sure is a long time to clear a random virus.
 
So he never actually tested negative, and they won't pay for any more tests,
 
Oh, that's horrible.
I wonder whether PCR tests would also return positive on lingering but non-viable viral fragments.
 
@tchrist Yeah, it is. But, as with all the rest of thhe questions, we don't know about carriers unless they do a culture, which is much more expensive. My guess is he's negative for live virus.
@tchrist Yes, that has been shown to happen.
But usually in folks who had pretty serious symptoms.
But. really, who knows?
There just isn't enough testing.
 
It looks like folks with the mildest forms of infection from this may not develop long-lasting antibodies to it. Which makes some sense.
 
3:23 PM
Though many believe testing is the cause of increased number of infections... O_o
@tchrist Yes, and they won't do a titer because of the low specificity.
 
Yup.
 
You're well? Still working from home?
 
Certainly.
 
Good. Keep doing what you're doing; you haven't fallen ill yet. :)
 
And no more semiannual Pennsylvanian peregrinations either.
 
3:26 PM
@tchrist :) I hardly see much of my state either.
My back yard and a few stores, occassionally the medical center.
 
Treating the risk of infection as nearly the same as that of mortality causes significant behavioral adaptation.
 
I still stumble over the spelling of seperately. I think of you whenever I do. :)
 
pa rat
 
@tchrist Yes it does.
Yep. :)
I'll let you get back to work. Good to chat, and better to know you're health is not changed.
 
3:46 PM
@anongoodnurse Fine here, thanks.
Although whacked out from exertion yesterday.
 
 
2 hours later…
5:25 PM
Hi @CowperKettle. I'd like to know about your opinion of the recent referendum. Do you think it was massively fraudulent or do most Russians generally like Putin?
 
@Færd Independent opinion polls showed that about 45% were pro-YES and about 35% were pro-NO.
 
I see.
 
In some cities the pro-NO part reached 55%, as in St. Petersburg
In Moscow it was about 50/50
 
So he won "fair and square"
 
People want stability, and associate the sharp increase in life standards from 2002-2008 with Putin.
No, the whole vote was illegal and null and void. You don't become an authoritarian ruler fairly and squarely. You have to bend some rules and break some lwas.
 
5:27 PM
Hence the quotation marks
@CowperKettle I could imagine.
 
Ah. Putin wanted to have the vote earlier because the economy is slowly keeling over due to COVID and his rating is slowly declining.
 
Clever.
And devious. But I'm not surprised.
 
He kills two hares with holding a vote amidst the epidemic: the vote was prolonged from 1 day to several days. This makes it's easier to cook the numbers. Just after the vote hte official COVID statistics will rise, whis will serve as a pretext to jail all protesters for violating the covid measures.
Very clever.
 
@Robusto Does your scientist son work in his own lab? Is his lab open yet?
 
 
1 hour later…
6:52 PM
0
A: Difference between the words "betrayal" and "treachery"

tchristBriefly, what differences there are to tease out of the two terms boil down to these: Treachery involves trickery; malicious deception. Something is presented as true and trusted and safe which in reality is secretly a fake that in some hidden way is willfully harmful. Betrayals expose somethin...

As you see, I felt the accepted answer just a bit too short. :)
 
7:38 PM
@Gigili He goes in when he needs to, but much of what he does can be done from home.
Nevertheless, his lab was shut down for a few months, but is now open fully for hands-on work, provided social-distancing practices are followed.
 
8:06 PM
Jun 17 at 17:35, by M.A.R.
@Mitch IIRC the pitfalls are the same as MS Word or other proofreading services. As soon as a sentence's structure ventures out of the absolutely ordinary it starts showing false positives and missing egregious errors.
Jun 17 at 5:58, by M.A.R.
You can use a proofreading site, like HiNative
Jun 17 at 17:27, by M.A.R.
It lacks the quality checks and controls SE has built-in. No downvotes or any sort of moderation, really.
Jun 17 at 17:28, by M.A.R.
But folks hang around each language section, and it's a good chance of getting a free proofreading done by a native speaker
 
You're just talking about computer programs, not about proofreaders.
 
Both
Maybe I should've et cetera'd that. SE oneboxes get big when they shouldn't
 
Why would a professional proofreader start showing false positives and missing egregious errors?
 
@tchrist They mentioned they use Grammarly
So only my first self-quote is for that
 
That's not a proofreading service. It's an atrocity meriting retroactive abortion.
 
8:12 PM
Well, there are no free services, and there are no services for 'learning'
 
What people most need is copy editing, not proofreading.
They need to worry less about widows and orphans and more about continuity and correctness.
IM!HO
 
Shrug I have you guys for my quasi-philosophical edgy-sounding ramblings
 
Or is it "semi-philosophical"?
 
@M.A.R. demi-(gogic(al(ly)))philosophical
 
8:15 PM
Don't bring demagogues into this
@tchrist In that regard, r/proofreading might be better
 
> Let’s take a closer look at what a copyeditor does. A copyeditor:

Checks for and corrects errors in grammar, spelling, syntax, and punctuation.
Checks for technical consistency in spelling, capitalization, font usage, numerals, hyphenation. For example, is it e-mail on page 26 and email on page 143? Or do you use both British and American English spelling variations interchangeably, such as favourite vs. favorite?
Checks for continuity errors and makes sure that all loose ends are tied.
Checks for factually incorrect statements. This is a necessary part of the copyediting process for non
 
They post Google Docs files there, not PDFs
 
> As you see, the copyeditor’s job is not just to check grammar and spelling. He or she must make sure that every element of your story is consistent, cohesive, and complete.

Your copyeditor will be different than your general editor. The copyeditor comes with a unique skillset. He or she must be precise, detail-oriented, and adroit in grammar and word usage. The copyeditor is also up to date with the standard practices in book publishing.
> The proofreader reads the copy for consistency in usage and layout, for accuracy in the text and references and for typesetting errors. The proofreader, however, is only acting as a quality check, making sure that the copy-editor or typesetter has not missed something. He or she is not responsible for overall consistency and accuracy.
> Copy editors...read through what’s been written and make changes as needed. This usually includes corrections to spelling and grammar, as most copy editors will do this too. However, they also delve much deeper into the text to check the logical flow of ideas, length of the work and any other writing issues that might crop up. They’ll make changes to the original work – checking facts and figures, correcting grammar, ensuring that the work is readable and preventing glaring errors.
 
I think people erroneously use "proofreader" as an umbrella term for both, and a few other things?
I know I did, up to now.
 
Some elements of proofreading can be relegated to mechanical automation. Few elements of copy editing can.
 
8:19 PM
You're even better than a copy editor
 
heh
 
So, say, on r/proofreading, you have people that proofread, and people that copy-edit. And you have people that don't do either but think they're doing both
 
My sensitivity to this distinction may come from having actual printed books published, and gone through the distinct phases needed in getting there a multitude of times. A copy editor is a wordsmith; a proofreader scans your blues for widows and orphans and such.
 
@tchrist Couldn't you have found a smaller graphic with blurrier type? ^_^
 
Also, blues is a term of art there.
@Robusto twerent mine.
And hyphenation. Gods.
The copyeditor makes it sound professional; the proofreader only makes it look professional.
 
8:23 PM
Proofreading is a dead art. So is copy-editing, for that matter. None of that happens on the Web. Sometimes I think no editing goes on at all anymore.
 
You don't think The New Yorker has copyeditors?
 
@tchrist Well, all right. But I have found errors in various locations in online TNY articles before.
I never found them in print. Never.
 
That's because when you're making graven images, it costs too much to throw those away and make new ones.
 
If that's alluding to the demise of print, I don't think that'll happen anytime soon
Munches on some e-books
ebooks?
 
You think it's all electronics, but actual physical plates can still be involved.
 
8:27 PM
Now there is no proofreading, and the final result is the effort of the last ham-fisted attempt to change the copy.
 
Maybe there should be a grammarian social movement
 
@M.A.R. Terrible. I'm a big fan of the Kindle—where else can you get a book in a minute when you need to read something?—but many of the transfers from paper to e-book are done with OCR and are replete with what are obviously OCR errors. NOBODY proofread them. At all.
 
They cost effectively only care about what can get them into trouble
 
There are drawbacks to e-books other than that. Maps and illustrations and photos are terrible unless you're reading them on a computer with a big monitor.
 
@Robusto Kindle is unavailable in Iran, so I've been getting things from this . . . ethically dubious . . . site . . . murmur
 
8:30 PM
> Offset lithography—one of the most common way to print ink on paper—uses printing plates to transfer an image to paper or other substrates. A printing plate is the surface which your design will be etched onto, usually made of aluminium.

With the ubiquity of digital, offset lithography and printing plates may seem like an old fashioned method of printing but they have been standard in commercial printing for more than a century and continue to be so even with the increase in digital technology.
 
But when you're traveling and finish the book you were reading at some odd hour and the stores are closed, then you are thankful you can get something good literally in a minute.
 
In my defense, there are no legitimate ways for me to get foreign books. Yes, I constantly check. Unless I pay people who pirate them
 
@M.A.R. Why unavailable there? Too easy to get anti-government information?
 
You shouldn't pay pirates.
Otherwise who pirates the pirates?
 
@tchrist Darn right, you don't pay for what you can do yourself
@Robusto There's no way for me to transfer money to a foreign account, I think.
I've been looking for one for years but nothing.
 
8:33 PM
Did you see the question about paying bail to get out of Iran temporarily?
 
So I can't purchase anything from Amazon, for example
@tchrist Wha?
 
0
Q: What is the name of the document/amount of money you need to temporarily give the government in order to leave the country?

AskeladdI don't know how this works in other countries, but in Iran, when you want to leave the country, say, on business, you need to post bail, which can consist of either an amount of money or a piece of property with cash value, which will be returned to you after you get back. Can we use the word "bail

 
@M.A.R. That sucks.
 
Isn't that for people who haven't done the compulsory military service or something?
 
No idea.
 
8:34 PM
Or there was a similarly ridiculous requirement.
Yes, that's probably it.
So people under the age of 18 cannot leave the country without this payment
After your two years of "becoming a man" are over, you get this certificate for having done the service
 
Let them leave their firstborn as hostage.
 
You can then get VISAs and stuff, I think.
 
Sonora just closed the border.
@M.A.R. Pity the ladies.
 
It's not like my ethical righteousness would lead me to pay to get legit products, haha. A dollar is 20,000 tomans now.
Our money is almost literally worth less than grass cows eat
It's definitely worth less than the other grass
Thanks Ob . . . Rouhani.
 
Can't imagine growing pot in a desert.
I'm kidding. I know you are not the Sahara.
 
8:39 PM
For your information, we have it pretty un-desert-y here on NW.
But we're working on it, rest assured
 
@tchrist They do it down here in the High Desert. But greenhouses are involved.
 
@M.A.R. Oriental mesopotamia.
 
I go by a pot grower on one of my rides. The air is redolent with that aroma.
 
@tchrist Bless you
 
Yeah, all the Colorado commercial cannabis crop is grown indoors.
 
8:41 PM
IIRC our whether was classified as Mediterranean
10th-grade geography textbook
 
@M.A.R. You mean your "weather"?
 
Sorry, climate.
 
Another homonym is wether.
For sheep.
 
Ovine castrates.
 
I know the tongue twister about weathering blah blah
 
8:43 PM
Climate and weather are different things. "Weather" is what is happening today; "climate" is the kind of weather you should expect on most days.
 
Climate's whacha expect; weather's whacha git.
 
Wether:sheep::steer:cattle
 
Geographically, Iran is located in West Asia and borders the Caspian Sea, Persian Gulf, and Gulf of Oman. Its mountains have helped to shape both the political and the economic history of the country for several centuries. The mountains enclose several broad basins, on which major agricultural and urban settlements are located. Until the 20th century, when major highways and railroads were constructed through the mountains to connect the population centers, these basins tended to be relatively isolated from one another. Typically, one major town dominated each basin, and there were complex economic...
@Robusto Something I know but I keep forgetting
 
West Asia? Really? I thought Lebanon and Turkey were West Asia.
relooks
 
Well, when Eastasia isn't the enemy, they're confined to India
 
8:45 PM
Eurasia, Eastasia, and Oceania. Always at war with one or the other.
According to Orwell.
 
We're in cool shades of blue.
Mediterranean
 
@M.A.R. Which part is yours?
 
@Robusto Tabriz
 
@M.A.R. Love the carpets. :)
 
Squints
 
8:47 PM
From Tabriz.
 
@Færd is in those pale-looking sunburnt areas
 
@M.A.R. So you're almost in Armenia or Azerbaijan.
 
Yep
 
Well we don't get rain too much so I omitted that part
Ahwaz is where the Arabs reside. It can get as hot as 120 deg F there.
Sep 4 '15 at 11:56, by RegDwigнt
Next up you'll tell me that Fahrenheit is a thing. Sheesh.
 
8:52 PM
@M.A.R. Phoenician.
Insofar as that's the telltale temperature of Phoenix at its worst. Or Death Valley.
Tabriz.
 
@M.A.R. It is indeed a thing. For human environments, an excellent thing.
Celsius is fine for science, and I use it in those contexts.
 
Iran is "all mountains".
> Florida on Friday reported its seven-day average of new cases was 7,948 — the 26th consecutive day the state has set a record in its seven-day rolling average.
How fitting a place for the Trump coronation!
 
9:10 PM
@tchrist Why, is hell all booked up?
 
@Robusto It's BYO hell.
 
9:26 PM
 
@tchrist Woodstock?
 
@Robusto No, Washington Monument July Fourth smoke-in, 1970. theguardian.com/us-news/gallery/2020/jul/03/…
 
Ah.
Them wuz the days.
 
Yeah.
Fifty years ago today, Dad wasn't arrested with his long-haired friends shooting off illegal fireworks up at Devil's Lake because (1) he was short-haired (2) he had us kids with him.
Russ and Les, though, they arrested.
Guess black is the new long-hair.
Or longhair was temporarily the new black.
 
We were the counterculture. Rednecks called us hippies, we called ourselves freaks.
 
9:34 PM
Yes.
That was the culture I grew up in, the lingo all around me.
For the longest time I thought the lemonade at the summer parties at the farm which were marked with XXX were off-limits to kids because they had LSD in them. I never asked. Many years later, I learned it just was spiked with vodka.
 
I never would have wasted LSD in a vat of lemonade. The amount you need is measured in micrograms.
 
Yeah, well. I was a kid. I didn't know that then. Later, this changed.
 
What a very brief period in my life that was. It seemed like it lasted forever, but only the memory lives on.
 
The eternal summers of youth.
Tie dyes waiting for the sunrise.
 
Heh.
 
9:44 PM
@M.A.R. Only 7% of Iran is forested. 36% of the United States still is. That's part of why it seems like it's all desert to us.
@Robusto If you wait to drop till right after you get to Alpine Valley, you will be a very long time getting home, so long that even the cops had deserted the highways out of there.
 
I hope you weren't driving at the time.
 
I didn't get my DL till after grad school.
So no.
Styx, Rush, Pink Floyd, the Dead.
Not all at once.
 
-2
Q: I have a doubt on preposition of a sentence

wisam zakariyaplease choose the proper preposition with explanation. "I remember the day when i was taking a test for grade 1 students." or "I remember the day when i was taking a test of grade 1 students." I'm the teacher here conducting the test.

> I'm the teacher here conducting the test.
Yes. Of course.
 
Teacher, teach thyself.
What are "grade 1 students"?
First graders?
 
@tchrist more to the point, what is "i"?
 
9:51 PM
@tchrist Never figured you for a Styx devotee. Blue collar man?
 
@Robusto It was there. Constantly. In high school.
 
@tchrist too little Ramones.
 
Rush was more interesting.
 
Well, of course.
 
@RegDwigнt The number right before ii.
 
9:52 PM
@tchrist only in America.
 
Okay, ii numbers before iij?
 
You wouldn't believe how much people hate you guys for using lower-case Latin numbers.
 
Why?
 
Because that is not a thing anywhere else.
 
You can't use uppercase page numbers for forewords.
 
9:53 PM
@RegDwigнt We're used to it. Water off a duck's ass.
 
@tchrist well you can't. Everyone else does.
 
Plus with xxv, how can you tell?
 
By using my magnificent brain.
 
Only capitalize the page numbers that begin a chapter; hence Lxvi.
 
I am going to be ill right now.
Anyway. That was not the point.
 
9:55 PM
How can you tell that you're not going to be iii?
 
Why would a page grade grade 1 students.
Or take tests for them.
Or post questions on ELU.
 
Children of a lesser god?
 
All gods are lesser than all other gods. Just ask any one god.
 
Perhaps it's just lesser children.
 
More like laissez-faire children.
 
9:57 PM
They called off last month's lessie fair.
 
Did you know that if only France and Germany would reünify, they'd nearly match Russia's population?
 
Why would I not know how to add two numbers, Tom.
 
And then what country would you really live in, you know?
How come nobody dies in Russia of coronavirus?
 
I don't care. Borders are just random lines that don't matter.
@tchrist no nursing homes.
 
10:01 PM
Russia has less than a tenth the case-to-death rate that the UK has.
Very strange.
 
It's like asking why no black people die in Russia of police violence.
There's just things that we don't have.
 
Hey!
 
@tchrist well that's because the UK fucked up, not Russia.
 
What was that Kurosawa movie about taking the old folks up to die on the mountainside in the snows?
Or maybe it was newer than him.
 
@BAYMAX helloes.
 
10:03 PM
Not much, if so.
 
@tchrist uh. Every Kurosawa movie?
 
I was thinking which one would be correct to write?
Complex but beautiful
or Complex yet beautiful
?
 
Doesn't matter much.
 
Define "correct".
 
Certainly "correct" doesn't enter into it.
jinx
 
10:04 PM
hmm
 
[Any adjective] [but/yet] [any other adjective] are all equally grammatical.
 
Cool
I would go with
Complex yet beautiful
 
Just like you could choose "and" one day and "or" the next day.
 
as i am tired of writing but's much
 
Writing butts are sore ones.
 
10:05 PM
I see
Yeah
hehe
Thanks guys!!
 
Soft as butter they can be, and yet sometimes as tough as old tree-roots.
 
Who now. Cats?
 
May be the word 'but'
ha
 
Ah you're still discussing bottoms.
 
10:07 PM
> ‘He felt better at once,’ said Gandalf. ‘But there is only one Power in this world that knows all about the Rings and their effects; and as far as I know there is no Power in the world that knows all about hobbits. Among the Wise I am the only one that goes in for hobbit-lore: an obscure branch of knowledge, but full of surprises. Soft as butter they can be, and yet sometimes as tough as old tree-roots.
 
yeah
 
Wait. Gandalf was a cannibal? I skipped past that bit.
 
@RegDwigнt Naked I was sent back – for a brief time, until my task is done. And naked I lay upon the mountain-top.
Naked savage, that.
 
That's Twilight now.
0
Q: What does "to one extent or another" mean?

Biibi RExample: The German Ideology is the first work that can be read as a reliable exposition of the essential views of Marxism (except in economics). In that sense it is the first “Marxist" work, all previous writings being anticipations, forerunners, or harbingers to one extent or another.

Oh my.
I think I'll go back to Bach.
 
Yeah ELU is ________.
 
10:13 PM
It's full of teachers.
I ain't having none of that.
 
 
2 hours later…
11:49 PM
@RegDwigнt Of course, but what's the alternative?
 

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