English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room - 2017-11-30

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12:09 AM

@Mitch I partly agree. But it doesn't have to be older people who correct a young girl. Those are not obvious opposites. Even when she puts older white men against young girls, it's a bit of a stretch; although I think the poem more or less sustains the stretch and she pulls off.

12:22 AM

@Færd I don't get it. What's 'a bit of a stretch'?

12:41 AM

@Mitch It's an idiomatic expression.

It means something is far fetched.

1:31 AM

0

Q: What word encapsulates the concepts of both 'make' and 'do'?

This question asked 'What is the difference between 'make' and 'do' ? ' I am trying to discover a word that conveys the concept which carries both meanings within it. My quest is due to a word in Hellenistic Greek, ποιεο, poieo, which covers a wide spectrum of concept and can be translated, dep...

single-word-requests

1:52 AM

What is the grammar rule for "You is kind" vs "You are kind"? ping me thanks

5 hours later…

6:59 AM

@Mitch Yeah, I meant taking too much advantage of poetic license.

Never mind. I watched a couple more of their recitals drawing heavy-handed battle lines between men and women.. a bit disillusioned with them now.

1 hour later…

8:22 AM

0

Q: Word for great liking on salt-tasing foods

According to the Cambridge Dictionary, if someone has a sweet tooth, (s)he likes eating sweet foods, meals. So, what's the word for who is interested in salty ones?

single-word-requests meaning word-choice meaning-in-context

1 hour later…

9:46 AM

0

Q: Is there a word for a solution that causes another problem?

To cope with darkness (problem 1) people resort to candles (solution 1), which may cause fire (problem 2) so people buy fire extinguishers (solution 2). Alternatively, people could buy fake LED candles (solution 1'). To ensure highway tolls are paid (problem 1) people need to buy vignettes and s...

single-word-requests

1 hour later…

11:13 AM

@William That's just how you conjugate the verb BE in standard English in the present tense:

> I am
we/you/they are
he/she is

I guess there are certain other dialects in which you is is not incorrect, but in the standard language that almost all learners aim to learn, it is definitely wrong.

3 hours later…

2:29 PM

0

Q: What noun would best describe holding space for someone going through something you've been through?

This is not necessarily a spiritual connotation. If someone is doing something that pushes their limits and someone is 'guiding' or 'facilitating' that by holding space, holding their hand, walking alongside them through the activity, is there a noun other than guide or facilitator that could be ...

single-word-requests nouns

2 hours later…

4:16 PM

@MattE.Эллен Is it still snowing there?

Mornin.

Matt E. Эллен

4:40 PM

@Mitch it hasn't snowed where I am. maybe further north

@MattE.Эллен It snowed in London, apparently.

Matt E. Эллен

climate change propaganda!

Which makes me feel a little bit better about moving there next month. Yes, it is rainy and overcast all the time, but at least it snows!

@MattE.Эллен Don't ruin this for me! I have photographic evidence!

Video, no less!

Matt E. Эллен

@terdon :D oh, alright. let there be snow!

just not here. it's just cold

@terdon new job?

5:00 PM

@MattE.Эллен Warmer when it snows than when it doesn't, often enough.

@MattE.Эллен No, same job but my GF is doing a three year post graduate course in the Royal Academy (of arts), so we're moving to London for at least the next three years.

I'd love to have a pint if you're ever in town, by the way!

Hello! I have read this passage: "The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, Until Who it is his comes, And to him shall be the obedience of the peoples". The phrase "Who it is his comes" is hard to me to grasp, doesn't it mean"until he comes"?. The structure is unfamiliar to me. Why wasn't it written as: "until he comes", why it is his comes rather than he comes? And who it is sounds like "Who is that?"

This seems to be very archaic.

@Tug'Tegin Are you sure that's correct? Where did you find it? The rest is indeed archaic but seems fine. The his is odd.

Seems to be a Bible quote, and the one I found by Googling is a little different:

Here: "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_in_the_Bible"

> The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.

5:15 PM

@terdon his may be a mistake, I guess.

Ah, I see. Yes, OK. It should be read as though "Who it is his" is a name, like Bob. So the scepter won't depart until Bob (Who it is his (scapter)) comes.

But it really does seem odd. And Wikipedia claims that's from the New American Standard Bible, but some random internet site I found has this quote from the NASB instead:

> "The scepter shall not depart from Judah, Nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, Until Shiloh comes, And to him shall be the obedience of the peoples.

biblehub.com/genesis/49-10.htm

Matt E. Эллен

@terdon that'd be great. same if you pop to Oxford let me know!

@MattE.Эллен Will do! :)

What does who it is his literally mean: is it a thing that is his? @terdon

@Tug'Tegin I read it as "He whose scepter it is", the owner of the scepter. But it isn't really gramatical as far as I can tell. Just a mistake in wikipedia.

5:19 PM

I also think so cuz I have been noticing on Wiki. some errors for a long while.

For this, the articles from the site elegible they are though should not be printed and handed over to students learning English.

Thank you! @terdon

@Tug'Tegin Students learning English should probably not be reading archaic and obsolete forms of the language anyway :)

Right!

@Mitch Dude!

5:51 PM

@Tug'Tegin The NASB actually has three possible translations of that passage.

"Until Shiloh comes", or "Until he comes to Shiloh", or "Until he comes to whom it belongs".

The New American Bible, which I consider a very good translation, has "Until tribute comes to him". There is a controversy over the Hebrew. Is "Shiloh" one word, in which case it's a proper name, or is it two words? And it could be divided into two words more than one way. There are good arguments for all solutions.

@Tug'Tegin Yes, somebody must have copied into wikipedia badly. the phrase in question is totally ungrammatical. Don't try to make sense of it. @terdon's copy is accurate for New American Standard version of the Bible

@Mitch It was copied into Wikipedia as "Shiloh", and somebody later introduced the error. I'm tracking down the edit now.

@Gigili What's up? It's not snowing there yet I hope.

@MetaEd That is one weird error to make.

@Mitch The editor could have been committing a pious fraud.

When you want an ancient text to support your religious belief, a pious fraud might pick and choose the modern translation that best supports his belief, and even invent a false translation, on the theory that the ends justify the means.

@Tug'Tegin The Wikipedia article is not reliable. The quoted passage is said to come from the NASB but that attribution is false. The NASB actually has the three translations I mentioned above, and none of them are the same as the one in Wikipedia.

I can add I see evidence that the Wikipedia article is attracting a lot of controversy. There have been many edits by people with various religious views, and the edits were often not up to Wikipedia's editorial standards and were removed by editors. As far as I can tell, this is still taking place now. The paragraph you were interested in was edited as recently as two days ago.

@Mitch I see repeated edits to that one paragraph. The source changes, the quote changes, it looks like the whole article is a religious war over minor textual differences that might or might not support a particular sectarian view.

6:34 PM

What is the name of the bias where you notice the hits but don't notice the misses, so you conclude that there's something significant about the hits? It's a form of confirmation bias. I thought there was a more specific term.

is "FYI" considered rude?

"Data searching" is close, but maybe it implies intent. "Confirmation bias" apparently implies you pay attention to what reinforces what you already believe.

An example is when something is intermittently going wrong and you're looking for the cause. You start to notice that your TV sometimes fritzes out when somebody is running water, and soon you're convinced that's what's going on even though it often fritzes out when nobody is doing that.

I guess I'll use "confirmation bias" until I find a better term.

Maybe related to the toupée fallacy.

@MetaEd annoying.

@MetaEd that's confirmation bias

@Mitch Ok, so it's confirmation bias even when you don't have an a priori bias? A bias that develops as you observe is still confirmation bias?

@Færd Valley speak generally fell into disuse in the early 2000s, and we are probably better off for it, 'cause the "old white dudes" were probably right: Using expletives to stall frequently implies that nothing is to be found in the forefront of your mind, and hence airheadedness, whereas a dismissive whatever is often considered disrespectful in a few ways. The scornful tone of that video is not really helping the latter case.

6:47 PM

as you see it? Then that's primacy bias, making a hypothesis based on the first things you see and then maintaining it by the (possibly) few confirming hits later.

@MetaEd ok, I'll bite. What's the toupée bias?

"All toupées look fake; I've never seen one that I couldn't tell was fake."

@MetaEd also... magical thinking

@Mitch I'm all for magical thinking. It keeps me alive.

@MetaEd ah... good one

@Mitch Found it in the Rational Wiki.

6:51 PM

@MetaEd otherwise we'd curl up in a ball of anxiety

@Mitch I like that. At least I won't be curled up alone.

LET'S ALL CURL UP IN A BALL OF ANXIETY NOW. WE'LL FEEL BETTER.

When magical thinking works, it's great

I feel better already

@Mitch Dude!

@Gigili I guess it's a sore topic

@MetaEd That does seem to be a little deeper than confirmation bias, more about assuming your model is true than just looking at positive instances. But very close

7:16 PM

@Mitch A relative of No True Scotsmen, maybe.

@MetaEd That's not a real 'No True Scotsman'

seg fault: heap memory full

rebooting universe

My screen went all blue. Is that supposed to happen?

'No True Scotsmen' sounds more like a particular kind of 'moving the goal posts'

Which sometimes may well be recommended.

@Mitch And now I've run into another great related term, "silent evidence". You look back at a series of events, but there's another set of events you don't see because that's not where you're looking.

but yes, if you move the goal posts to just the one's you've already positively marked.

@Mitch core dumped - your fault

haha

Silent Evidence

Silent Evidence is a 1922 British silent mystery film directed by E. H. Calvert and starring David Hawthorne, Marjorie Hume and Frank Dane. == Cast == David Hawthorne as Mark Stanton Marjorie Hume as Rosamund Frank Dane as Raoul de Merincourt H. R. Hignett as Charles Cecil del Gue as Dr. Hickson Winifred Nelson as Fiancée == References == == Bibliography == Low, Rachael. History of the British Film, 1918-1929. George Allen & Unwin, 1971. == External links == Silent Evidence on IMDb...

back in a bit

7:58 PM

Can use 'upshot' instead of 'takeway'?

1 hour later…

9:24 PM

Do you check the information on the back of the food packets, @Mitch? To see what's in them.

@Trey "Upshot" is generally used when you are about to describe what finally happened. "Takeaway" is generally used when you are about to describe what should be learned. In some situations, a thing might be both the upshot and the takeaway. But not always.

9:39 PM

0

Q: a word that means a person who has an eclectic sense of adventure

likes to go to the opera and also loves to go camping or hunting they will do anything and everything. they like fine dining but will also catch a fish and eat it. they have an eclectic sense of adventure.

single-word-requests

10:24 PM

@Gigili Is this for a quiz? Then, yes! I do read the back of food packets. I like it when they have both Czech and Slovak, and you compare the translations, and they're almost entirely identical except for one word has one letter spelled differently.

Depends on the size of the packet. Ketchup is very small, the fonts are so hard to read.

@MetaEd Takeaway is when you buy a meal at a restaurant in the UK but you take it home to eat

Upshot is when you fire a rifle at a bird flying overhead

10:42 PM

Do you think dogs are smarter than cats? Science says you may be right. 🐶🐱 http://wb.md/2ALuJvN

Tweeted by WebMD on November 30, 2017 at 10:00 PM

Stupid cat

11:09 PM

@Mitch As a person living with dogs and cats -- dogs are smarter by far. Cats learn, dogs reason. When you point at something, dogs look to see what it is. Cats look at your finger.

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Nov '1730

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