English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

12:28 AM

@tchrist I think I started with "modern Iran".

Then proceeded to mutilate the sentence.

tchrist

heh

I’m subthused by journalists’ tendency to forgo national adjectives.

Cerberus

Especially UK journalists.

While simultaneously committing the sin of unnecessary abbreviations in a running text.

If by subthused you mean experiencing a lack of enthusiasm, perhaps hypothused or even ecthused would be better.

tchrist

I deliberated that.

Cerberus

I truly wonder why newspapers do that.

And the website of the BBC.

tchrist

They do it in blind obedience to wit’s soul, brevity.

user208178

12:40 AM

@Mitch your comments are star magnet.

user208178

hello @tchrist @Cerberus. how are you guys?

Cerberus

1:06 AM

Hello!

The BBC again.

user208178

oh good. I thought I was getting the silent treatment ;)

user208178

1:20 AM

do you watch news in the middle of the night?

Pichi Wuana

11:55 AM

Is there an homograph word in English where the only difference is the stress?

crl

12:15 PM

woa, estoy completamente lleno (como diciera 'full?)

gotta go, a hunter is targetting at me :)

user208178

hello @skillpatrol

skill patrol

Hi! @Arrowfar

user208178

@crl in real life? :)

Mitch

12:54 PM

@Arrowfar if you star this you will have bad luck. Also, good luck. Really, it's your choice.

Færd

2:07 PM

Less boring and more chancy and clever than 2048: Threes.

Martin AJ

Which one is correct?
- here is current result
- here is the current result

Cerberus

The.

Martin AJ

ok thx

and what about these?
- How to set a default value when record is null?
- How to set a default value when the record is null?

Cerberus

The.

A is also possible, but it depends on context.

Martin AJ

ah ok, thx

Færd

2:10 PM

@Cerberus Also in the first one, I assume?

Cerberus

Less likely, but not impossible.

I'm actually not sure what he means by current.

Perhaps it can be omitted.

Færd

Mhm.

Can I ask you where you live?

terdon

2:22 PM

@MartinAJ Neither. Never use how to X when asking a question. Always say How can I X instead. The How to X construct is for providing an answer, it could be the title of an article explaining how to do X, but not a question asking how X can be done.

3

Martin AJ

@terdon ah .. good to know ..

I want to say I didn't do X so far at all. Which one is correct?
- I never have I ever didn't X
- I never ever have didn't X

skullpatrol

:-/

why not say "I've never done X before"

Martin AJ

@skullpatrol Yes this seems correct. But what I said is kinda a game :-) I seen that in the movies.

terdon

Both of those are nonsensical, I'm afraid.

Perhaps never have I ever done X

Martin AJ

@terdon yup that's the one

terdon

2:31 PM

But dont say that. Not in normal conversation anyway.

skullpatrol

Never Have I Ever

"Never Have I Ever", also known as "I've Never…" or "Ten Fingers", is a drinking game. == Rules == The verbal game is started with the players getting into a circle. Then, the first player says a simple statement starting with "Never have I ever". Anyone who at some point in their lives have done the action that the first player says, must drink. Play then continues around the circle, and the next person makes a statement. An additional rule – uncommon, but beneficial to the game – is that if there is no one taking a drink, then the one who said the particular "Never have I ever…" must take a drink...

Martin AJ

ok .. you know, that's a game. I don't know you're familiar with it or not. But I say "never have I ever done X", if anybody in there done that, he should be punish.

@skullpatrol tnx

skullpatrol

np

terdon

Sure, in that context it's fine. Just don't use it in normal conversation.

Martin AJ

ah ok

How can I make it a "imperative sentence"? Like "You should never ever do X". it that right?

skullpatrol

2:38 PM

sounds ok

Martin AJ

good

@skullpatrol or ... ever never ... ? Is the order important?

Færd

@terdon Wow, I wouldn't know that!

terdon

@Færd Yes, it's a very common mistake. Something like 30% of all questions on SE, for example.

skullpatrol

@MartinAJ yes, order is important

terdon

But not something a native speaker would say.

Martin AJ

2:39 PM

@skullpatrol So either "ever never" or "never ever" ?

terdon

Or, certainly not this native speaker anyway :)

Færd

Certainly good to know.

skullpatrol

@MartinAJ "never ever" is ok

Martin AJ

ah ok

@Færd You should say "I didn't know that". I guess "wouldn't" is wrong.

Færd

I meant I wouldn't know that if it weren't for you.

Shafizadeh

2:43 PM

@Færd bebin mishe farsiye ino begi? :-)

Færd

نمیتونستم اینو بدونم اگه به خاطر تو نبود.

skullpatrol

@terdon could you pin it please? :)

Shafizadeh

@Færd ah :-) thx

Færd

np.

terdon

@skullpatrol What the common mistake thing? I'd rather not abuse the mod pin thing, why don't you star it?

Oh. You have :)

skullpatrol

2:44 PM

30% justifies my request

tchrist

naw

Færd

Was that a yawn? :) Or no + wow?

skullpatrol

an informal "no"

Færd

I guessed so. I wondered what it was that he disagreed with.

skullpatrol

oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/naw

Færd

2:49 PM

Reminds me of dawg.

terdon

It's an old American form of address called Redneck Cryptic.

skullpatrol

@Færd that would be a ghetto slang :)

Færd

My mind keeps reminding me of irrelevant things.

skullpatrol

If 30% of the questions ask about that mistake shouldn't there be some kind of "canonical answer" to direct them to? @terdon

terdon

Ah, they don't ask about it, they just commit it.

Færd

2:55 PM

All the more reason.

terdon

stackoverflow.com/search?q=is%3Aq+%22how+to%22

For example.

skullpatrol

:O

terdon

Did you create a new user again?

skullpatrol

yep

^ opposite of "naw" @Færd

:)

or "yup"

Færd

:)

@skullpatrol Did you just confess it to a mod?

skullpatrol

3:00 PM

yup

Færd

naw!

skullpatrol

:D

TIPS

@Færd Having a sock isn't a problem per se.

Doing something one person can't, with the help of socks, however.

skullpatrol

it always depends on "intention"

Færd

Yeah.

terdon

3:02 PM

Plus, we're used to skully doing this.

skullpatrol

that^ too

TIPS

Why are you doing it anyway @Skull?

What's the point?

Don't tell you do it because "you can".

Oh, is it kinda a "reset game" thing?

skullpatrol

dunno

I waste too much time on the internet

TIPS

Why not waste it with one account?

skullpatrol

I'm trying to stop

tchrist

3:23 PM

Triple-digit weather and three active fires in the county. Total fire ban because all local resources for responding to fires are already in use. One of the homes destroyed was that of one of the firefighters.

TIPS

Literally breaking news

skullpatrol

how ironic

TIPS

The fire is retaliating.

skullpatrol

fighting fire with fire

Færd

@tchrist Use the Celsius scale then.

tchrist

3:30 PM

@Færd But I’m not measuring body temperature!

TIPS

(/¯◡ ‿ ◡)/¯ ~ ┻━┻

Don't make us wish that was three digits in Celsius.

tchrist

@TIPS I don’t read Farsi, sorry.

skullpatrol

@TIPS take that table back to the chem room

Færd

@tchrist It would, nevertheless, reduce the temperature.

tchrist

@Færd No, merely the figure. :)

Færd

3:33 PM

The bigger figure has a negative mental impact.

TIPS

@tchrist And the figure affects how you perceive the temperature.

@tchrist Now I wish I was a wiener.

tchrist

@TIPS Does it now?

TIPS

It does.

Færd

Oh yes. For the trees too.

TIPS

I mean look at you. Your hair is on fire.

tchrist

3:35 PM

Max temperature today is. . . .

Let’s go with degrees Newton, shall we?

Færd

BTW, we're still so weak against the mildest of natural disasters.

tchrist

Thirteen seems a lot nicer than triple digits.

And forty centigrade always confuses me because I worry that there’s been a sign-bit error and so it should actually be negative instead, and therefore Fahrenheit.

@TIPS Because you so like Viennese pastries?

Færd

I'm more comfortable with the metric scale (Kelvin) than Fahrenheit.

tchrist

@Færd That’s understandable given that everything and everyone around you is uniquely expressed in centigrade degrees, right?

Although Kelvin is rather absolutist of you. :)

Færd

Or physicist. :)

@tchrist Right.

tchrist

3:48 PM

It’s awfully convenient to use units whose usefully memorable range corresponds to the majority of actual use and experience.

So for example, what's wrong with that thermometer?

Færd

That it can't show negative temperatures? Or something subtle?

tchrist

Both.

That it does not correspond to the outside temperatures most often encountered on Earth.

Færd

Outside temperatures?

tchrist

You will often get temperatures below freezing, and you will virtually never get anything even half as high as the maximum.

skullpatrol

let's not get into a "heated" discussion about scales now :)

Færd

3:51 PM

Ah.

tchrist

As in, "What's the temperature outside today/tonight?"

user208178

@tchrist that thermometer could be okay for a warm place where we don't get lower temperatures.

tchrist

Perhaps so. You should probably start at forty below otherwise.

Færd

I see. That is a rather self-centered view. (Is it too negative a word?)

user208178

@skullpatrol so how many accounts do you have? just curious :-)

tchrist

3:53 PM

@Færd But is it justifiably self-oriented? :)

skullpatrol

over 9,000

user208178

nice.

tchrist

That one is more useful, albeit still leaving a few things to be desired.

skullpatrol

as justifiable as my request based on 30%

Færd

@tchrist I didn't want to use a strong word. sorry. If you want to carry a thermometer in your pocket, then yes, those aren't optimum.

tchrist

3:55 PM

@Færd It was for an oil gauge, which is why it had those termini.

Færd

@tchrist It can't tell if you have a slight fever.

tchrist

Call me old fashioned or arithmetically challenged, but I’d rather numbered demarcations on every even ten degrees than every twenty.

Færd

You're not old fashioned. You just happen to have ten fingers on your hands.

skullpatrol

t "arithmetically challenged" christ

tchrist

@Færd Thanks be.

Færd

3:58 PM

Incorporate your toes and the problem is solved.

tchrist

Four score and seven toes ago, our fathers learned how to count.

Færd

Alas, they didn't use their toes. Would have been fun if they had.

o/

tchrist

I wonder what digit-forms a duodecimal, hexadecimal, or vigesimal counting system would have devised.

So for like vigesimal you can't just go 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F G H I J.

Because the 1 and the I look too close.

Oh, Wikipedia has a suggestion to tr[IJ][JK] for legibility.

terdon

Why would a culture using a vigesimal counting system use the latin alphabet?

On a slightly relevant note, when Greeks count in letters, it's Α, Β, Γ, Δ, Ε, ΣΤ(!)

skullpatrol

how needs to count when you have geometry?

tchrist

4:07 PM

Why sigma-tau instead of zeta now?

That's Inuit. Still combining with an underlying mark and score system, looks like.

That's Mayan.

stroke stroke stroke stroke slash.

But with dots instead.

skullpatrol

and they have zero

tchrist

Five-count tallies are less compact but might be easier to read and endure.

@skullpatrol Clever of them.

skullpatrol

indeed

terdon

@tchrist No idea. That's just how it is. As a kid I was in grades A through E and then, suddenly in ΣΤ

skullpatrol

no negative numerals though

tchrist

4:11 PM

storyofmathematics.com/mayan.html

terdon

@skullpatrol Ah, but apparently, 0 was their bread and butter.

tchrist

@skullpatrol We don’t have negative numerals either.

terdon

Bread, anyway.

skullpatrol

@tchrist we?

tchrist

@skullpatrol Nope.

Our digits are unsigned.

skullpatrol

4:14 PM

ok, negative numbers

tchrist

That's something completely different.

Did you know that when you write -10 the compiler sees that as the constant 10 with a prefix unary negation operator applied to it?

skullpatrol

yes

tchrist

user208178

speaking of numbers how come we don't have an "accountancy SE" site?

skullpatrol

there is a Quant.SE

tchrist

4:17 PM

EUREKA

> The Dozenal Society of Great Britain propose a rotated digit two 2 (↊, U+218A) for ten and a reversed or rotated digit three 3 (↋, U+218B) for eleven.

terdon

@Arrowfar There's Economics and Personal Finance & Money.

tchrist

skullpatrol

tchrist

user208178

@terdon hello terdon. yes they are quite close. I was thinking a site for CPA's, ICAEW's etc. Chartered Accountants I mean. It's still in Area 51 it seems and not very popular unfortunately.

user208178

4:21 PM

@skullpatrol yes thanks, but I was thinking something else.

tchrist

I’m thinking those might be easily misread, but maybe that’s like saying that all (insert racial stereotype) look alike to me.

> It is possible for people to count on their fingers to 12 using one hand only, with the thumb pointing to each finger bone on the four fingers in turn.

skullpatrol

if the mayan's had zero, i wonder why they didn't have the negative numbers?

tchrist

> In Hellenistic Greek astronomical texts, such as the writings of Ptolemy, sexagesimal numbers were written using the Greek alphabetic numerals, with each sexagesimal digit being treated as a distinct number. The Greeks limited their use of sexagesimal numbers to the fractional part of a number and employed a variety of markers to indicate a zero.

crl

looks like a base-3 system

tchrist

@skullpatrol Who said they did not?

skullpatrol

4:26 PM

you

tchrist

I said they no more had digits that represented a negative than have we.

skullpatrol

ok

crl

they didn't think of the symmetry with negative numbers

tchrist

Not clear. Their zero was extremely important to them.

skullpatrol

perhaps, they didn't use it to count

tchrist

4:30 PM

es.scribd.com/document/235452056/…

> Mayans used only positive numbers; there is no theory and description about negative numbers of Mayans mathematics.

skullpatrol

especially counting backwards

crl

Greek system was base10?

well not really

they have shortcuts for hundreds

it makes more sense than Roman system that came after :)

tchrist

sighs

skullpatrol

how far from you?

tchrist

Too far for danger. Not far enough to breath clean.

user208178

4:33 PM

@tchrist is that Colorado? sorry too slow to reverse search.

crl

fires are natural actually, I mean they benefit to the forest in mid-term

terdon

@crl So's rattlesnake poison.

tchrist

@Arrowfar Yes, in my county.

dailycamera.com/boulder-county-news/ci_30110860

user208178

@tchrist oh. sorry to hear that.

crl

π was 80 in Greece

terdon

4:48 PM

@crl ?

Ah, yes, I see. So it was.

tchrist

What's that tool that lets you compare frequencies of phrases is worldwide English?

Should be on our resource list, darn it.

Got it.

corpus.byu.edu/dialects.asp

tchrist

5:36 PM

@terdon One for you.

0

Q: Is an English word coined with Greek morphemes considered a loanword by native speakers of Greek?

Europeans and Americans often use Greek roots to coin new words for new concepts. For example, the telephone was invented in the United States of America, and the word telephone is itself derived from Greek roots tele (τῆλε) and phone (φωνή). Later the term telephone was adopted into the vocabula...

terdon

Woah.

Not really on topic though.

tchrist

True.

Having exhausted the measly little 24-vote supply of close votes allotted to me daily, I am forced to edit bad questions and give comments instead.

Færd

in Language Overflow, 8 hours ago, by Færd

Etymology quiz #2: Which pair are related?
1. rise, rouse
2. meager, mere
3. rotisserie, rotary
4. studio, stadium

tchrist

The pair that Latin won’t help you for.

Færd

You sure? :)

tchrist

5:46 PM

No, that's a hunch.

But I know roti from French roast, and doubt that has anything to do with circles.

And studium and stadium are different.

Latin merus isn’t where we get meagre from.

Færd

@tchrist Oh that was the tricky one in this quiz!

I should've remembered you know French..

tchrist

It’s more likely to stump me with purely Germanic words, and much easier with Celtic ones.

Færd

in Language Overflow, May 19 at 10:19, by Færd

Etymology quiz: Which pair are related?
A. relevant, relative
B. save, savor
C. play, display
D. ally, coalition
E. fortitude, fortnight

tchrist

haha

I don't know how people who don't know Latin solve these.

Færd

The interesting option in this (for me) was D.

And B.

tchrist

5:51 PM

I rather imagine that ally and coalition are related, but further back then basic Latin alone. An ally is someone you are tied to, and a coalition brings things together.

Tied to as in a papal legate.

Ligatures.

Færd

As far as etymnoline goes, they're not.

I've forgotten though. Let me check.

tchrist

As I said, further back than simple Latin alone.

< alescere

Perhaps not. I cannot break that one down further.

Færd

> Ally ... from Latin alligare

tchrist

Ok, there's a lost stative aleo.

@Færd Yes, that's the tied thing.

> From a lost stative *aleō ‎(“be growing up”) +‎ -scō ‎(inceptive suffix).

Færd

They are similar, alescere and alligare.

tchrist

5:55 PM

Which is why I wasn’t sure there wasn’t something behind them, but there does not appear to be.

Færd

Phew! And my quiz stays a(n answerless) riddle.

tchrist

B is wrong because salvare and sapere are different.

Play is Germanic but display from Latin.

@terdon Your theta that came after your chi lost itself a naitch.

terdon

@tchrist Lost you there.

tchrist

autochthonous

I can only see other people’s typos, not my own.

terdon

Ah, indeed. Thanks.

crl

6:07 PM

Latinus studio (studere at first person?)

Jossie Calderon

7:03 PM

Should I be doing:

<b>This sentence is bolded.</b>

or

<b>This sentence is bolded</b>.

tchrist

I would do the first way, normally, but it doesn't really matter at all.

Jossie Calderon

thank you

Martin AJ

8:04 PM

I'm looking for a name for my function. That function converts 1000 to 1k or 13200 to 13k. Here is my current name: getShorthandNumb();. Is there any better suggestion?

TIPS

My fingers are Numb.

I'd recommend WrongNotation();

Martin AJ

why "wrong"?

TIPS

'cause it's wrong.

Martin AJ

:-)

Are you talking about the word of "numb"?

TIPS

It's something programmers came up with.