English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

Cerberus

00:09

@RegDwigнt Hah, that looks too good to be true...

skill patrol

:D

sumelic

01:03

2

Q: What's so interesting behind the "delete your account" meme?

I mean, I just recently know that Hillary Clinton sent a meme to Donald Trump to delete his account. And I've read an article about this on knowyourmeme.com, that this meme has been around since 2008, but gained momentum around 2015. But I still can't get why this is such an interesting meme. I d...

mghaffari

03:38

Hi. Can you kindly have a look at my question on the first page and see if you can answer it? It's important. Tnx.

Quill

11:03

Hey guys, what happened here: meta.english.stackexchange.com/questions/8085/…

tchrist

11:50

@Quill What do you mean?

Quill

somebody said they're account was having issues and linked me that, but it's deleted, so I thought I'd ask

tchrist

It was deleted by a moderator.

I have my suspicions as to why, but it's hardly my place to say even if I am correct in this.

If there's a serious concern here, you can always contact the team via the link. If it were me, I wouldn't bother, but that's neither here nor there.

Quill

I was just curious as to the subject, I'm don't have an issue with the mod decisions

tchrist

12:05

I think things will be ok here.

優しいエイリアン

13:31

Does my sentence below use English punctuations properly?

Prior to entering a higher level school, it is essential to do things -- like observing the school, listening to the stories from seniors, and discussing with teachers --, to widen alternatives as much as possible, and to think.

It is my translation for the Japanese one: 進学に当たって（は）、学校を見学したり、先輩に話を聞いたり、先生に相談したりして、できるだけ選択肢を広げて考えることが重要だ。

Araucaria

13:43

@Cerberus Any chance of a hand reopening this question?

Cerberus

14:24

@Araucaria It seems that my hand was not needed!

Færd

14:53

Do Americans use smart in the sense of neat and stylish? As in:

> The staff should wear smart outfits in order to make better first impressions on costumers.

Does sharp work in my example sentence?

Araucaria

@Cerberus Thanks for looking! All we need now is someone who know the answer!

tchrist

15:13

@Færd Sharp probably works better there for the generally unread American audience, but certainly my grandmother used smart there up until her death a few years ago.

Færd

@tchrist Thanks. The sharps I'd encountered so far were in casual contexts (Hey man, you look sharp!), so I wasn't sure if it would fit in there.

tchrist

Smart casual

Smart casual is an ambiguously-defined dress code that is generally a neat yet casual attire. Different localities, kinds of events, contexts, or cultures can have varying interpretations of the dress code and therefore the designation of certain clothing pieces (such as jeans) as smart casual is disputed. == History == Smart casual was first mentioned in the Iowa newspaper The Davenport Democrat And Leader in May 1924: The sleeveless dress with three-quarter overblouses, in smock appearance completing it for street wear, is accorded various interpretations. It is at once practiced and gives a...

Cerberus

@Araucaria Isn't it some kind of appositive? I haven't read the comments...

@tchrist Ugh.

Færd

I think the comments should be deleted or moved to chat or something.

Cerberus

Then future readers, including future answerers, would be deprived of interesting and/or useful information?

tchrist

15:21

@Cerberus No one ever went broke underestimating the taste of the American public.

Cerberus

It's the terminology.

It's wrong in several different ways.

tchrist

Oh?

Cerberus

It is, alas, also seen here.

The phrase.

tchrist

You're going to have to unpack that at a faster pace.

Færd

@Cerberus It's mostly debate over whether the question should be closed or reopened. Or I should take a second look.

Cerberus

15:22

Oh.

Well, if it's only that, then I suppose it won't be very useful for future readers.

Maybe keep them until the controversy over closing/reopening the question has blown over.

Færd

Yeah, maybe.

And I'm tempted to edit and add some more examples from corpora, like "What do you mean that its believed thats where he got off" and "Mom! What do you mean that you didn't bring my red shorts?"

And even examples in which the that is omitted: "What do you mean you found him?"

tchrist

@Cerberus I don't understand you.

Færd

I'd like to understand Cerb's point too.

Cerberus

@Færd Yes, it is quite interesting. Perhaps it is ellipsis?

@tchrist A dress code smart casual is horrible for several reasons. Surely you agree?

tchrist

@Cerberus Yep, I completely didn't understand that that was what you were referring to.

Business casual

Business casual is an ambiguously-defined dress code that has been adopted by many professional and white-collar workplaces in Western countries. It entails neat yet casual attire and is generally more casual than informal attire but more formal than casual or smart casual attire. Casual Fridays preceded widespread acceptance of business casual attire in many offices. == Definition == There is no generally agreed definition of "business casual". One definition of business casual states that it includes khaki pants, slacks, and skirts, as well as short-sleeved polo shirts and long-sleeved shirts...

Do you like that better?

Cerberus

15:33

Still horrible.

Færd

You state your aesthetic opinions so matter-of-factly.

Or should I say objectively.

tchrist

@Cerberus Not every occasion is a wedding or a funeral.

Cerberus

Because I assume you agree that it is horrible?

Færd

I don't know. :)

tchrist

No, because I would despise being required to wear a weskit, suit, and tie, and patent leather shoes.

Cerberus

15:42

Most importantly, it is unclear. If you receive an invitation, you want to know what to wear. White tie is clear, pullover is clear, hiking boots is clear. "Smart casual" is notoriously unclear.

@tchrist You would what infinitive?

tchrist

I agree that it is confusing.

Different people have different ideas on what is permissible.

Cerberus

Secondly, it is contradictory: "casual" means it doesn't matter, wear whatever you like. "Smart" means you're supposed to look...soigné, for lack of a better word. And "casual" almost contradicts "dress code" already.

tchrist

An invitation to dinner at the White House is always "formal" or "casual", where "casual" means black tie (morning suit) and "formal" means white tie (and tails).

So you have to understand the context.

Cerberus

By morning suit, you mean morning coat? But you don't wear a black tie with that.

tchrist

Casual doesn’t usually imply that you can wear something appropriate only for the beach. Although I've seen gross faux pas in that particular arena, no pun intended.

@Cerberus Well that's true, it isn't a black bow tie.

Cerberus

15:46

So those terms sound inappropriate, because they appear to be traditional, but are apparently used in a different way. Priority 1 in dress codes is: be clear! Don't deviate from either plain language or accepted traditional terminology.

tchrist

> Don't deviate from plain language.

That’s clear.

The other, perhaps not.

Cerberus

Why not?

tchrist

"accepted traditional terminology" is not well defined.

Cerberus

Everyone knows what he or she should wear when the invitation says "cravate noire" or "black tie".

tchrist

Yes, a little bow-tie, and not checkered.

Cerberus

15:48

@tchrist Oh, but it is, I believe. It can be looked up in books and on Internet pages.

tchrist

smiles

Cerberus

@tchrist It means a dinner jacket / tuxedo.

So it is clear.

Cravate blanche and tenue de ville are also well defined.

tchrist

I haven't attended something requiring a tuxedo since time immemorial.

Twenty-five years, maybe more.

Cerberus

But, if the invitation said "cravate noire", you would know what to wear, or at least you could easily look it up.

I am to don a morning coat for the first time in my life, for my brother's impending wedding.

tchrist

I would know that, but I do not travel in such lofty circles.

Cerberus

15:51

I must admit I had to look up which colour my waistcoat is supposed to be, and what kind of shoes I am to wear.

My father hasn't worn his morning coat since...25 years ago either. It is now rarely worn.

tchrist

Cerberus

Haha.

That must be part of some special tradition?

tchrist

Perhaps it's a waiter.

Cerberus

Oh.

tchrist

Often the vest is replaced with a cumberbund these days, you see.

Cerberus

15:53

But a cummerbund is hardly new...

tchrist

Be that as it may.

Cerberus

I think it is less common here.

tchrist

One wonders what you're shown by google.com/…

Cerberus

One gets slightly better results with mm.

tchrist

Oh, you're right.

Cerberus

15:55

Black.

tchrist

Fewer shots of Benedict.

Cerberus

Eggs Benedict?

The Pope?

tchrist

Sherlock

Cerberus

Ummm.

I know him, but not his name.

tchrist

Benedict Cumberbatch

Benedict Timothy Carlton Cumberbatch CBE (born 19 July 1976) is an English actor and film producer who has performed in film, television, theatre and radio. The son of actors Timothy Carlton and Wanda Ventham, he graduated from the University of Manchester and continued his training at the London Academy of Music and Dramatic Art, obtaining a Master of Arts in Classical Acting. He first performed at the Open Air Theatre, Regent's Park in Shakespearean productions and has portrayed George Tesman in Richard Eyre's revival of Hedda Gabler in 2005. Since then has starred in the Royal National Theatre...

I must away.

Cerberus

16:00

Oh.

Adieu!

Shafizadeh

16:51

The word of "make" is a correct word in this context? "Would that query make any benefit of that index?"

tchrist

17:20

@Shafizadeh No.

> Would that query be of any benefit to that index?
Woud that query be any good for that index?
Woud that query do any good for that index?
Would that query make that index better?
Would that query benefit that index?
Would that query improve that index?
Would that query help that index?

@Shafizadeh See my examples immediately above.

Shafizadeh

17:38

@tchrist Oh .. a lot of examples :-) .. thx buddy

tchrist

Sure thing. Getting these “little words” right is always hard.

Shafizadeh

yeah it really is

tchrist

Notably, benefit as a noun normally requires a lot of them for what use you're trying to put it to. I would normally recommend against it, but it would depend on the broader context. I like the short line at the bottom myself, but you may be looking for a more precise or at least more precise-sounding term.

Shafizadeh

I see

tchrist

Benefit as a verb is mostly just a longer, more Latinate synonym for help.

Benefit as a noun is mostly just a longer, more Latinate synonym for good.

However, it has a specific use-case outside that. It can refer to a sort of charity drive, like holding a benefit for some worthy cause, which means trying to raise money for it in some brief time somehow or other.

> A public performance or other entertainment of which the proceeds go to a particular charitable cause.

Also, benefits refers to some tangible "goodness" that you get out of your job, typically.

> A payment or gift made by an employer, the state, or an insurance company: welfare benefits, wages and benefits.

oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/english/benefit

Shafizadeh

18:07

good to know

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English Language & Usage: Multi-Layer…