English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

1:48 AM

@Robusto I am having a Danish right now.

@Robusto what? It's never been -sanctioned-, just a murder not prosecuted because of implicit collusion of all the murderers

@M.A.Ramezani I'm the only lower Upper-middle class northwest South Dakotan... here... That I know of.

tchrist

2:10 AM

@Mitch All Cretans are liars.

Ionică Bizău

9:08 AM

Hi! Should I use the here: This is the @AtomEditor contributions calendar since the early beginnings until now.? Or how can I improve it?

/cc @tchrist I saw you around -- maybe you have a quick answer. :)

Matt E. Эллен

@IonicăBizău it's difficult to parse without context, but if I assume "@atomeditor contributions calendar" is a single thing, i.e. a calendar, then I suppose it makes sense but I think schedule would make more sense.

Ionică Bizău

@MattE.Эллен I want to post this on twitter and with an image. This is a contributions calendar, so scheudle is not a good word here.

Matt E. Эллен

if it makes sense in context, then your sentence is fine

Ionică Bizău

I'm not sure how is correct: <some project> contributions calendar or the <some project> contributions calendar.

So, if that's a single thing, we use the?

@MattE.Эллен Gave you some upvotes. Thanks!

Matt E. Эллен

9:24 AM

it reads best with the

Ionică Bizău

Yes, I see. Thanks again!

Matt E. Эллен

@IonicăBizău thanks :D

Ionică Bizău

Everybody loves reputation points. :-)

Matt E. Эллен

indeed. my favourite type of arbitrary internet points

skill patrol

9:38 AM

I agree :)

RegDwigнt

9:59 AM

@Cerberus: geography quiz time!

2000 vs 2009. What are we looking at?

Blas Soriano

Sauron's eye?

RegDwigнt

Not bad. Quite close indeed.

Blas Soriano

found it :)

wow! quadrupled in ten years

RegDwigнt

And that's six years ago, mind you. So I guess today it looks something like this:

Faheem Mitha

Which is correct - "which states does this apply to?" or "what states does this apply to?" Where states are US states, e.g. California or Utah.

RegDwigнt

10:13 AM

Both are equally correct.

Which is a tad more formal. If that.

Justyna Nogala

hi

do we have to write p.m and a.m after the time

if the time is not specified

?

Blas Soriano

How would you do that by using another language?

RegDwigнt

What do you mean, the time is not specified?

How do you write something after something that's not there?

What is your exact sentence?

Justyna Nogala

whait a second plz

I'll copy a text

Oh @RegDwigнt hallo again ;)

RegDwigнt

10:28 AM

Hello hello.

Justyna Nogala

hen he heard the moaning and shots, he hid under a wide pine in the forest and observed the action. It was around 9 - 9:30

when*

Blas Soriano

That seems like a novel. If the reader is mean to know the exact time, I think it is not needed to add am or pm

RegDwigнt

To fix a typo, press the up key on your keyboard to edit.

Justyna Nogala

I'm translating a Polish testimony and in the original version the author did not say If it had took place in the evening or in the morning

RegDwigнt

But is it clear from the context?

Blas Soriano

10:32 AM

so you cannot add that anyway

Justyna Nogala

no

RegDwigнt

If it's not clear, then you must not add it.

Also, the hyphen is wrong. Must be an en dash.

9–9:30.

Justyna Nogala

After some time, Władek returned [...] he told me he barely managed to give the letter through the gate when Germans came in cars and attacked Jews in Szczeglacin. When he heard the moaning and shots, he hid under a wide pine in the forest and observed the action. It was around 9 - 9:30

here is the wole section

no one knows if it happens in the evening or in the morning

Faheem Mitha

@RegDwigнt Ok, thank you. I'm a little surprised though.

Justyna Nogala

10:51 AM

does a phrase to lead somebody to somewhere for something exist ?

Robusto

11:13 AM

@JustynaNogala "wide pine" is an unusual description, especially hiding under one. Trees are not normally described by their width in English.

Justyna Nogala

strange anough

why a tree can't be wide?

Robusto

It can. It would just sound like someone not familiar with English was doing the description.

Justyna Nogala

now tell me one more thing

"they were led to the forest outside of the city for execution."

is it for execution or to be executed

?

I've never seen anything like this

to lead sb for sth

Robusto

Either one. But why do you even need to say that if the action that follows will illustrate what happened?

Why are you trying to write this in English, btw? Is it for a class?

Justyna Nogala

This is a translation

Robusto

11:24 AM

Translation is hard. You really have to speak the target language well to pull it off.

Justyna Nogala

I know

the text does concern the holocaust

it was around 70 years ago

And I'm a beginner translator

Actually I'm not translating right now

what am I doing is correcting/ editing

the translation made by a previous translator

Robusto

If you're a beginner translator, I'd suggest first trying to translate from the other language into your native tongue.

Justyna Nogala

This is my task for school

Robusto

Ask @RegDwigнt for advice. He's a genuine translator.

@JustynaNogala So the answer to "Is it for a class?" is "Yes, it is." ^_^

Justyna Nogala

;

;)

and again I cannot work out why is there past simple used instead of past perfect.

Robusto

11:34 AM

Where?

Justyna Nogala

These to are easily confusing for a non-native speaker

have a look

All of them were shot in the woods, but before that they had to dig out pits.

I would write down "they had had to dig out the pits"

Robusto

In English narrative prose, you establish a timeframe and then proceed with it from that point. Once you set the scene as having been at a particular point in time, you can use simple past from then on. Past perfect is reserved for referencing events that happened prior to the flow. For example, "They took from him a gold watch, one that had been given to him by his grandfather."

Justyna Nogala

I can't still see the difference

The jews were ordered to dig out the pits

So they did

then they were shot

Robusto

But at the time of the execution, there were other events that had happened to them earlier in their lives, right?

See this question, maybe that will help:

91

Q: How do the tenses and aspects in English correspond temporally to one another?

Non-native speakers often get confused about what the various tenses and aspects mean in English. With input from some of the folk here I've put together a diagram that I hope will provide some clarity on the matter. I offer it as the first answer to this question. Consider it a living document....

Justyna Nogala

and When we start a sentence from the end of their lives and then we say that they had to do sth before we have to use past perfect

for instance "My dog unearthed the bone which my father had buried before"

is it correct?

RegDwigнt

11:44 AM

Huh wha y'all still at it.

Justyna Nogala

yes it is

RegDwigнt

Here was I thinking the subject would be cake by now. Or at least lies about cake.

Justyna Nogala

Yes these are language barriers that cannot be crossed easily

RegDwigнt

Use a crowbar and some C4.

Justyna Nogala

why are you always laughing at such important things ?

RegDwigнt

11:49 AM

What? I am laughing? And always?

Robusto

@JustynaNogala It's what he does. You'll have to get comfortable with that if you want to hang out here.

Justyna Nogala

I'm geting used to it

but very slowly

RegDwigнt

If you think I've ever laughed while in here, you should visit a psychiatrist. There's clearly something wrong with your brain.

I offered Robusto to laugh at him once, for a measly $3000, but he said he was a dirt poor skinflint.

Justyna Nogala

no comment, I was talking about language barriers such as speaking,writing and the use of tenses while you wrote something about C4 and a crowbar

RegDwigнt

That is exactly what happened.

So you are very observant, after all.

Justyna Nogala

11:53 AM

do I look like a bulglar ?

Robusto

@RegDwigнt I never said any such thing. I said I was an exemplar of thrift. You've clearly lost something in the translation.

RegDwigнt

Which raises the question even more: how exactly did you arrive at the conclusion that someone was laughing the whole time?

Robusto

@JustynaNogala I could answer that if you tell me what a "bulglar" is.

RegDwigнt

@JustynaNogala see, I do not know what you look like. So, unlike yourself, I'd never stoop to saying "why is Justyna always looking like a bulglar at such important things?"

Justyna Nogala

burglar

I'm sorry

RegDwigнt

11:55 AM

@Robusto yes, I've clearly lost the $3000 bucks. Which I never had in the first place. A double loss. I am aghast.

Robusto

Aghast, but not a ghost.

RegDwigнt

Like you have any idea what ghosts from Aghanistan look like.

Robusto

They look like ghosts from anywhere else, I'm pretty sure. I.e., invisible.

RegDwigнt

See, I did say you had no idea.

Robusto

You say lots of things. I had no idea that you meant anything by them.

RegDwigнt

11:57 AM

Is there any idea at all that you do have?

Robusto

Two. I have two ideas.

RegDwigнt

From Target, no less.

Robusto

My ideas do not include Target.

Since I have only two, I just can't make room for crappy retailers.

RegDwigнt

Here's an idea: buy some room from a retailer first.

Robusto

Pay me $3000 first. You can afford it.

RegDwigнt

12:00 PM

Oh crap, you said you had no room for ideas. Then hold on a sec: here's a room.

@Robusto I cannot afford it precisely because people like you never paid me $3000. That's economy, stupid.

I literally have like 37 kopeks now.

Maybe 38 if I check the left shoe.

Robusto

How much is that in euros?

RegDwigнt

And I was informed by the Russian government it will take no less than five years for 38 kopeks to become worth $3000.

tchrist

How many čapeks per kopeck again?

RegDwigнt

@Robusto it is OVER 9000 drachme.

tchrist

s/dr/f/

RegDwigнt

12:03 PM

Gesundheit.

tchrist

Tight as you want.

RegDwigнt

Nono, I said untight.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Russia's still working those five-year plans, eh?

RegDwigнt

Apparently.

It worked before.

Never change a working plan.

tchrist

@RegDwigнt I think it’s sposta go in tight.

RegDwigнt

12:05 PM

I am sikh and tight.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt It "worked" before for values of "worked" that mean "didn't work," I think.

RegDwigнt

So... all you're saying it worked.

It worked the American way.

tchrist

@Robusto Arbeit macht frei?

Not sure that worked out.

Robusto

@tchrist Why are you dragging Auschwitz into this now?

RegDwigнt

Freiheit macht Brei.

tchrist

12:06 PM

With crackers.

RegDwigнt

@Robusto yeah, why now and not yesterday?

Robusto

Dr. Arbuthnot mocked Freya.

tchrist

Frayed knot.

Robusto

Fried sew.

tchrist

Froðo liðes.

in Holland.

Singing leaders.

Robusto

12:08 PM

Litotes in Holland.

RegDwigнt

So anyway. I don't think you realize that the five-year plan to devalue the dollar is a five-year plan by your government, not Russia's. Russia's government can only devalue their shit.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt You can't devalue something that has no value to start with. How much is the rouble worth these days?

RegDwigнt

They tried running around in circles crying "dollar sucks", but that didn't work. For roubles, they found way more exciting approaches that worked like charms.

@Robusto exactly my point. They are done with their rubbles. Now they have to wait five years for the US of A to be done with theirs.

Following suit takes time. Especially in America.

No child left ahead.

Robusto

Interesting that Germany's former currency was a homonym of the inventor of socialism.

tchrist

Barney Rouble?

Robusto

12:11 PM

Karl Marks.

RegDwigнt

Reichs Engels?

Klara Tzetkins?

Rosa Luxemburgs?

Karl Liebknechts?

tchrist

Pretty in pink.

RegDwigнt

Petty in prink.

Robusto

I was just listening to a podcast about the First World War, in which Dan Carlin claims that Germany's shipping Lenin and other communists to Russia during the war was in their minds a kind of biological warfare, one which backfired and began to infect Germany itself. Interesting.

tchrist

I don’t think we should let Greece join the US. We don’t need more falafel.

RegDwigнt

12:12 PM

tchrist

Hamburger slogan ^^^^

RegDwigнt

Here, have five billiards of inventors of socialism. Now gimme half a loaf of bread.

Robusto

@tchrist Wrong. Greek food is good for you. Falafel especially.

RegDwigнt

Fa-lol-whut?

Robusto

Not Farfel, falafel.

RegDwigнt

12:14 PM

Do re mi fa la fel.

tchrist

It hurts to falafel.

Easier empty.

Robusto

Farfel the Dog

Farfel the Dog is a hound dog ventriloquist's dummy created by Jimmy Nelson. The Farfel character is best known for television commercials for Nestlé's Quik which ran from 1953 to 1965. == Creation == In 1950, while working a late show in a Wichita, Kansas nightclub with his human dummy Danny O'Day, ventriloquist Jimmy Nelson picked up a stuffed dog left by a patron on the piano, and improvised a low-pitched voice to make it talk. This gave him the idea for a new character which he commissioned from Chicago dummy maker Frank Marshall. Nelson named it Farfel, after the Jewish pasta dish he had seen...

Schmurk.

Fernand Joseph Désiré Contandin (8 May 1903 – 26 February 1971), better known as Fernandel, was a French actor and singer. Born in Marseille, France, to Désirée Bedouin and Denis Contandin, originating in Perosa Argentina, an Occitan town located in the province of Turin. He was a comedy star who first gained popularity in French vaudeville, operettas, and music-hall revues. His stage name originated from his marriage to Henriette Manse, the sister of his best friend and frequent cinematic collaborator Jean Manse. So attentive was he to his wife that his mother-in-law amusingly referred to him...

Mitch

12:15 PM

@RegDwigнt I changed plans once. didn't work

Robusto

Justyna Nogala

that day or on that day ?

1,400 people lost their lives that day/on that day

?

RegDwigнt

@Mitch see. And now you're stuck between a rock and a charybdis, because you'd need to go back to the original working plan, but that involves a change of plan, which as you've found doesn't work.

tchrist

RegDwigнt

@Robusto okay now that's a reference I don't get.

Who's the dog? Looks like a young Marlon Brando?

tchrist

12:18 PM

@JustynaNogala yes

RegDwigнt

And who's the morlock? Looks like an old Marlon Brando?

Mitch

All unknown references are to star trek

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Salt monster.

Justyna Nogala

@tchrist yes? what kind of answer is that ?

RegDwigнt

@Mitch No, that's all known references.

tchrist

12:19 PM

The Man Trap

"The Man Trap" is a first season episode of the science fiction television series Star Trek. In this episode, an illusory, shapeshifting, salt-hungry creature terrorizes the crew of the Enterprise. It originally aired on September 8, 1966, and was the first episode to be shown on NBC. It was written by George Clayton Johnson, and directed by Marc Daniels. Although it was the first aired, it was not the first produced (the pilot, "Where No Man Has Gone Before" and several regular episodes had been produced before it). The current official timeline considers "Where No Man Has Gone Before" to be set...

RegDwigнt

@tchrist morlock-motors.de

tchrist

@JustynaNogala The correct one.

RegDwigнt

morlock.de

What is it with Germany and morlocks. I didn't know that.

Justyna Nogala

@tchrist is it yes- they are both correct or yes- the only one is correct ?

RegDwigнt

Yes.

tchrist

12:20 PM

Stitch the threads.

Lilo the stitch.

Which one was lilo?

The other one.

That's Mr Lily to you.

RegDwigнt

The unicorn has eaten a lilly!

tchrist

12:22 PM

Only a virgin can ride a unicorn — and that only once.

Mitch

The prophecy fulfilled!!

Robusto

8 mins ago, by Robusto

Farfel the Dog

Farfel the Dog is a hound dog ventriloquist's dummy created by Jimmy Nelson. The Farfel character is best known for television commercials for Nestlé's Quik which ran from 1953 to 1965. == Creation == In 1950, while working a late show in a Wichita, Kansas nightclub with his human dummy Danny O'Day, ventriloquist Jimmy Nelson picked up a stuffed dog left by a patron on the piano, and improvised a low-pitched voice to make it talk. This gave him the idea for a new character which he commissioned from Chicago dummy maker Frank Marshall. Nelson named it Farfel, after the Jewish pasta dish he had seen...

RegDwigнt

The noobphecy nullified!

@Robusto great Scott, you manage to be confusing.

I was already typing "the dog's name's Fernandel as well?"

tchrist

@RegDwigнt Someone has to support the southrony Eloi.

RegDwigнt

Yeah. Like you:

Mar 23 '13 at 16:47, by tchrist

-2

Q: Strange dancing crab on stage at Sydney harbour

What was that dancing crab a large audience saw in Sydney this weekend?

look-alikes

Robusto

12:26 PM

@RegDwigнt Wrong link, obviously.

RegDwigнt

Yeah, obviously now.

Not obvious at first, when you ask "who was phone", and get the answer "cheese", only to be quickly edited into "adenosinetriphosphate".

Robusto

Native Americans slept in an adenosinetriphosphate, also known as ATP.

RegDwigнt

So anyway. I will never ask, what have I done for Farfel the Dog. But rather: what has Farfel the Dog ever done for me?

Robusto

Selfish.

RegDwigнt

What kind of fish?

Robusto

12:28 PM

You should have grown up in America in the '50s and '60s and then Farfel would have given you many laughs.

See, it was your fault.

RegDwigнt

You should have grown up in America in the 1750s and 1760s, then the Europeans would have given you many laughs.

See, it was ALL YOUR FAULT.

NO U.

NO ST ANDREAS

NO GTA.

YES TSA.

12:33 PM

See, that puppet I do know.

I will not mention from which show, because I'm already burning in hell for ever watching that pile of dirt.

Robusto

'E's a muckin' about / wif de angels abooooooove

@tchrist It was a simpler time.

RegDwigнt

They only had two colors back then, black and white.

Robusto

What about gray?

tchrist

grey

Robusto

12:36 PM

Gris.

RegDwigнt

And the la-dee-da rich assholes of today wonder why they had to segregate!

tchrist

They only had grey. Gray had not been invented yet.

Mitch

Youre so lucky. We only had black

Robusto

All cats look black in the dark.

RegDwigнt

If two is all you have, and you accidentally mix them, you end up with one being all you have.

tchrist

12:37 PM

nig

RegDwigнt

This would have made IMAX impossible. And Avatar. And Sharon Stone.

tchrist

All cats are the same color after midnight.

Or with beer goggles.

Or with beer goggles after midnight.

RegDwigнt

I wear my sunglasses at night so I can so I can.

Robusto

No, according to Schrödinger, cats only have a probability of being black or white in the dark.

RegDwigнt

No, according to Schrödinger, cats only have a probability of being black and white in the dark.

Robusto

12:39 PM

My cat likes to play with string theory.

RegDwigнt

Now look at them yoyos.

She should have learned to play them drums.

Mitch

That's the way to do it

Robusto

The theory that it can find infinitely many ways to annoy me by playing with string. And anything that resembles it, like earbuds, stereo cables, etc.

tchrist

You can’t it your kitty.

RegDwigнt

~~Rosebud! Rosebud!~~ Earbud! Earbud!

tchrist

12:41 PM

Erewyrm

RegDwigнt

I see eres of green, red wyrmen too.

Robusto

I think it would be fun to create a language that had only one word but infinite inflections.

huh

That one will do.

ɥnɥ

12:42 PM

@Robusto yes. For infinite zero inflections that language's been created already.

Robusto

We start with huh and if I mean "tchrist" I have to say "huhtch" or something like that. It would be "hutche" if he were female.

tchrist

hytch

Robusto

Stop. I doubt you're well endowed enough for a y there.

tchrist

Ablauting.

RegDwigнt

Lol you start a minimalistic language by introducing females of all things. How about we leave them out till the very end. Then leave them out altogether. Like English does.

tchrist

12:44 PM

Mytch is Mitch’s identical twin syster.

Robusto

Better endowed than he is, apparently.

tchrist

Or Mitch is Matt’s unacknowledged spratling..

Robusto

@MattE.Эллен is 'horch' in the language of huh.

tchrist

If you ping them, they will come.

Robusto