English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

3:00 PM

anyway, commas have nothing to do with my question

Meanwhile, putting a whitespace before a comma will make you look like the least educated person on Earth to anyone, not myself.

Mitch

Like ,this?

terdon

@Mitch It is when you're looking up the same word in more than one language. Something I've done quite often.

RegDwigнt

Nobody will care if you're using the word "boy" correctly. All they will notice and say will be, "gee, this guy has never read a single sentence of English, or really any language".

Of course you can go ahead and call them pedants as well, if you wish.

Mitch

@terdon Yes, that is exactly a very niche need. People rarely need that. Anyway, it's a weird way to aorganize things, but makes it so you don't have to specify language when searching. It is annoying though to get the meaning of 'incommodious' in Mongolian when I need it terribly for Nepalese. I mean I gotta 'go' now!

RegDwigнt

3:03 PM

@JustynaNogala commas have to do with my question, though. You are not the only one allowed to ask questions here. And I only asked mine after answering yours. So, quid pro quo, Clarice.

Mitch

Wait... it only works if I'm reading Nepalese. Nevermind.

Justyna Nogala

How can you consider puting irrelevant blank spaces before commas the worst thing in life

Mitch

@RegDwigнt checks fridge for fava beans

RegDwigнt

@JustynaNogala I do not consider putting irrelevant blank spaces before commas the worst thing in life. What are you smoking?

Robusto

How do you say "toilet paper" in Chimpanzee? Oh wait, they don't use any.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

3:03 PM

opens Chianti

Mitch

no fava beans. had a friend for dinner last night

Justyna Nogala

yes you do

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I hate every ape I see, from chimpan-A to chimpanzee.

RegDwigнt

No I do not.

Mitch

@RegDwigнt there's worse?

@Robusto that seems unfair

RegDwigнt

3:04 PM

Why do you even tell me what I do or do not consider. You've known me for all of three minutes.

Mitch

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 sets to beatbox rhythm

Robusto

@JustynaNogala Maybe you need to take a step back and adopt the Student Mind. If you are a supplicant here with questions, do not quibble with the answers you are given.

RegDwigнt

I am giving you solid and helpful advice.

Mitch

noshes on a thigh

RegDwigнt

If you are not willing to take it, so be it.

As Kevin Spacey said in The Negotiator, I am not invested in any of this.

Mitch

3:05 PM

@Robusto The Student Mind is to ask "Is this going to be on the test?"

Justyna Nogala

You've started accusing me of using incorrect grammar because I'd put a space before a comma

@RegDwigнt

RegDwigнt

You can put fifteen commas in every word. I am just telling you how people will react to it, is all.

Justyna Nogala

in stupid chat room

RegDwigнt

@JustynaNogala What are you smoking? I never accused you of using incorrect grammar!

Never once did I even use the word "grammar".

Justyna Nogala

where everybody can make simple mistakes

RegDwigнt

3:06 PM

Grammar has nothing to do with punctuation.

Mitch

@JustynaNogala Don't mind Reg, he just had a bad run in with.. holy crap are people still using effing Wiktionary?

RegDwigнt

I would know better than to call commas "grammar".

Mitch

I'd call them by their nickname, but she changed it to Nicki.

I know, right!

@JustynaNogala Some are age related and some are not. Those relevant to age lad/boy/youngster have vague ranges, not at all specific like you say. Also, youngster is not gendered.

RegDwigнt

Just like in every language. Just like I said.

Mitch

Jesus effing christ, goddamn WIKTIONARY!

RegDwigнt

3:10 PM

Meanwhile my question still lies unanswered.

Mitch

Wait.. you had a question?

Justyna Nogala

You've made up the whole story about those commas for nothing @RegDwigнt it's like asking a jerk if he or she is a jerk ;0

RegDwigнt

What story are you referring to. I never made up a story. I asked you a question. Please look up the difference between "story" and "question" in a dictionary of your choice. I'll wait.

Meanwhile I'll go bathe in my fame and honor, as apparently I'm the inventor of all the world's punctuation. I didn't even know that. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

Justyna Nogala

@RegDwigнt You welcome,

RegDwigнt

Whom do I welcome?

Don't leave me hanging like that.

Justyna Nogala

3:14 PM

Nevermind, There wasn't any question

RegDwigнt

@JustynaNogala also, dude, "he or she" is not the correct nomenclature. "asking a jerk if they are a jerk", please.

Johan Larsson

@Rob do you have a sample of a nice form with validation? Pic or link.

Mitch

boy: 0 to ~18, but a canonical boy is ~5-10
lad: very Irish English (to me an AmE speaker) maybe ~5-25? I don't know
youngster: ~5-12
but all of these are vague and younger or older might work and within the range might not.

RegDwigнt

Boy, are you wrong.

Justyna Nogala

thanks

Mitch

3:15 PM

If the person is older than around 40, I'd say fellow dude, guy, would sound wrong unless you said 'old dude' for example.

@RegDwigнt Ha ha. Hey! Who you calling boy?

RegDwigнt

Earlier today I walked up to the Queen and told her, "boy, are you wrong". She congratulated me on my impeccable use of Queen's English.

Justyna Nogala

@RegDwigнt forget about our conversation, uhhm I'm sorry your polemics.

Mitch

That's a little... condescending? patronizing?

Robusto

@JohanLarsson Hmm, not close to hand.

Justyna Nogala

later...

RegDwigнt

3:16 PM

@Mitch now that you've spelled out my answer to his question for him, can you please spell out his lack of answer to my question for me?

Mitch

@RegDwigнt Yes, marm!

RegDwigнt

Because he sure as hell doesn't feel like answering.

@JustynaNogala do not forget about our conversation, lest you be sorry about your English.

Mitch

@RegDwigнt Are you OK? I didn't know your polemics

Johan Larsson

@Robusto ok no rush, I'm writing a sample for a small framework I wrote. Fishing for ~inspiration~

RegDwigнt

@Mitch I didn't know either, but then again I didn't know I invented all of the world's punctuation.

Robusto

3:18 PM

The hammer and sickle are not punctuation marks.

RegDwigнt

So who knows, I might be many more things, and more. The President of Russia. A cactus.

Robusto

You want odds on cactus?

RegDwigнt

I want evens.

Mitch

@RegDwigнt You did? good for you! Or rather, goddam you what a mess. hyphen dash - fuck it.

RegDwigнt

Yes. Which is what I've been saying all along. Problem is, nobody listens.

Mitch

3:20 PM

@Robusto I'll take the cactus if he won't

RegDwigнt

The rules of punctuation are clear and inflexible.

Justyna Nogala

I thought this chat was made in case people need help in English language. I was wrong...

RegDwigнt

But nobody gives a shit. Certainly not Justyna.

Justyna Nogala

thank you

Mitch

@RegDwigнt But are they shatterproof?

Robusto

3:20 PM

@Mitch I didn't get you a cactus, sorry. I only got them for @RegDwigнt and @cornbreadninja麵包忍者.

RegDwigнt

@JustynaNogala you just received help. What are you talking about?

You even received additional advice on top of that, for free.

Mitch

@RegDwigнt Jasper gives a shit... I'm pretty sure.

RegDwigнt

Then you went ahead to call the people who gave it to you "jerks".

Justyna Nogala

I give a shit

too

RegDwigнt

What exactly is your agenda with that?

Mitch

3:21 PM

@Robusto one small tear

those things sting

Justyna Nogala

but our friend reg behaves like he was from different planet

seeya

RegDwigнt

@JustynaNogala "like he is from a different planet".

See, free help again.

Justyna Nogala

Ohh I was waiting for that

seriously.

RegDwigнt

Also, since when am I not from a different planet? You just told me you knew me better than myself. And you don't know such basic things about me?

Mitch

@RegDwigнt What was your question again? "you come here specifically looking for non-pedantic answers?"

Justyna Nogala

3:22 PM

Now we're talking

Mitch

That's not a question. It's a rhetorical answer.

RegDwigнt

@Mitch oh, that's a good one, too. But no, I am currently thinking of this question:

27 mins ago, by RegDwigнt

Also: why do you put whitespaces before punctuation marks? Nobody, ever, does that. Not in English, not in any language. What is your reason for doing that?

Mitch

I do it out of.. what do they call it... hygiene? the whiteness makes it more obvious when you need to clean.

RegDwigнt

Justyna keeps getting help left and right, all the while my one and only question lies unanswered. No fair. Two-caste society here. Pfft.

Mitch

one and a half caste. Your caste isn't worth a whole allotment.

RegDwigнt

3:28 PM

It's been a full 30 minutes and I'm still waiting.

Must I pay him for the answer? I am being genuinely curious, but he just. won't. tell.

Robusto

@RegDwigнt Did you try $3000?

RegDwigнt

@Robusto I know better than giving someone $3000 after giving them not one but five advices for free. My advices run $3000 apiece, you know.

Robusto

The worst vice is advice.

RegDwigнt

Miami Ad Vice.

Mitch

I don't want your addendum

RegDwigнt

3:35 PM

There's a fire truck in Mianus.

Jackass Mianus

►

Mitch

"Ten listicles that don't list themselves: 15 sexiest celebs you didn't know were Canadian, this listicle, 5 self abnegating listicles, ... shit"

Justyna Nogala

@RegDwigнt Justyna is a female name

RegDwigнt

15 unsexiest celebs I did know were Canadian. What a misnomer!

@JustynaNogala yes, so?

Justyna Nogala

so You've been whaiting for HER ANSWER

not him

RegDwigнt

No, I've been waiting for his answer. Because at that time he had not told me he was a she.

Justyna Nogala

3:39 PM

and You'de already been given an answer to your qiestion

question

RegDwigнt

Then I suck at reading comprehension.

Care to quote it for me once again?

Justyna Nogala

look for it at the begeening

RegDwigнt

Beginning of what?

Justyna Nogala

or should I write it again /?

RegDwigнt

You can quote it simply by posting its URL.

Like this:

43 secs ago, by Justyna Nogala

look for it at the begeening

Justyna Nogala

3:41 PM

Beginning of our conversation

terdon

@RegDwigнt They do in some languages. French for one and, apparently, Indian English.

Justyna Nogala

Ok give me a second

or maybe more

terdon

2

Q: What languages, if any, require spaces around punctuation marks?

I have often seen posts on various Stack Exchange sites that have spaces around punctuation marks. For example: Here , spaces around a comma. A space before a question mark ? I think I've only seen them preceding question or exclamation marks and around commas and not before full stops...

punctuation

RegDwigнt

I know that question. I know the answers. I know the comments. Look at the comments, one of them is mine.

Oh wait, you're quoting Linguistics.

terdon

@RegDwigнt :)

RegDwigнt

3:42 PM

What copycat crossposted to Linguistics? That's our question!

terdon

Me!

RegDwigнt

It had been our question for three years before Linguistics even existed.

terdon

How is it our question, I was asking about non-English languages.

RegDwigнt

You think just by being a sly dog you somehow escape justice?

terdon

@RegDwigнt That's the plan.

RegDwigнt

3:44 PM

Well, in my capacity as the inventor of all the world's punctuation, I herewith inform you that you shall not.

terdon

The answer I got is interesting though. It traced the IndEn (or whatever) to a specific book.

Justyna Nogala

I did it becasue I wasn't paying attention to it And I didn't know those spaces mean so much for you

RegDwigнt

@terdon So did our site. Duh.

terdon

@RegDwigнt You'll have to catch me first, copper.

RegDwigнt

@Reg, in most Indian schools, English grammar is taught from a book that was originally authored by two Englishmen: PC Wren and H Martin. The earlier editions of the book (including the one that I own) has a space before the following punctuation marks are used: question mark, exclamation mark, dash (em dash), colon and semi-colon. Also, one can observe two spaces after a full-stop (or a "period" as the Americans call it). My guess is that such practice is a relic of the typewriter era. The new editions of "Wren & Martin Grammar Book" (as it is known in India) appear not to have such spaces. — user36421 Jan 25 '13 at 10:07

terdon

3:45 PM

@RegDwigнt It did, but then some mod came in and converted an answer to an easy to miss comment. Damn mods

Justyna Nogala

That wasn't the point of calling me a non-educated peros reg

RegDwigнt

@JustynaNogala sorry, that cannot be true. When you don't care about stuff, then what happens is you just let typos slip through. Occasional mistakes. However, those were no typos. You put spaces there consistently.

Mitch

@RegDwigнt Damn you @terdon!!!

terdon

@Mitch It's what it is. That's just the way I roll.

Justyna Nogala

no

RegDwigнt

3:46 PM

It involves quite some muscle memory to consistently put a whitespace before a comma.

So you must have learned that somewhere. You must be doing this regularly and habitually.

terdon

@JustynaNogala what's your native language? Does it have spaces around punctuation?

RegDwigнt

So I was curious why that would be. And still am.

Justyna Nogala

it was not deliberate

of course it doesn't

RegDwigнt

@JustynaNogala I did not call you a non-educated peros. Whatever a peros even is.

Justyna Nogala

person

omg

Mitch

3:47 PM

@RegDwigнt And then people die.

You're actively killing people.

to death.

and it hurts

RegDwigнt

I didn't call you a non-educated person, either.

Justyna Nogala

that's the problem of my keyboard

not offical

Mitch

@RegDwigнt it's a bunch of dogs, cabron.

terdon

@Mitch Actually, it's a bunch of buts.

RegDwigнt

I am tempted to ask you for the third time what you are smoking, but I'm afraid I won't be getting any answer just like the last two times around.

Justyna Nogala

3:48 PM

not on the record

terdon

pero = but, perro = dog

Mitch

@terdon oh. so it's a bunch of buts, pendejo.

Justyna Nogala

but you mentioned that puting spaces before commas is typical for non-educated person

terdon

Yeah, that will do :)

Mitch

@Robusto I bet duolingo didn't teach you that in your 72%.

RegDwigнt

3:49 PM

No, I never mentioned that. Though yes, it's actually true. So I'd actually have no problem mentioning that. If you want, I can mention that.

Mitch

@RegDwigнt Vaping. It's much douchier.

Justyna Nogala

Anyway I treated it as an offence

Robusto

@Mitch Teach me what?

Mitch

@RegDwigнt Hey, would you mind mentioning that? it would be a great help. What exactly were you going to mention though?

@Robusto about buts and pendejos

RegDwigнt

@JustynaNogala And so you should. Everyone should be offended at coming across as uneducated, and should strive to come across educated. For that, everyone should strive to be educated.

terdon

3:51 PM

Anyway, @RegDwigнt, in her defense, she put spaces where they shouldn't be and left them out where they belong. So I guess she's just a fast typist and we can't let her join the pedant brigade:

57 mins ago, by Justyna Nogala

Fellow , guy , lad, boy, dude, youngster,buddy. Do these words relate to any specific age ? for example boy is a male at the age from 8 to 14 , youngster 16 teenager is 12 -17 and so on

Justyna Nogala

who the fuck did say I'm uneducated ?

Mitch

I strive to be well-fed.

Robusto

@Mitch Cuidado, cabron.

Justyna Nogala

I'm getting bored of you Reh

RegDwigнt

@JustynaNogala exactly nobody did. And you're putting spaces before question marks again.

Justyna Nogala

3:52 PM

reg

Because

RegDwigнt

"reg" is a misspelling just like "Reh" is.

Mitch

@Robusto I haven't got to that percent yet, something something tu madre

Justyna Nogala

I was tought to do it

Robusto

@Mitch Are you looking for hijo de puta? That seems to be a fave with them.

RegDwigнt

@terdon right now at this very moment I am typing faster than all of you in here combined.

terdon

3:53 PM

@JustynaNogala And that's precisely what we're asking. By whom? Was it an English teacher?

@RegDwigнt I'm surprised you can even see the keyboard what with all the dust my lighting fast typing is kicking up.

RegDwigнt

Eureka! It took her but a full hour to finally tell us.

Mitch

@Robusto Which lesson in duolingo was that in? The one where you're supposed to watch Amores Perros?

Justyna Nogala

No it was a Polish teacher

RegDwigнt

Jesus Christ in heavens, just how hard can it be.

@JustynaNogala it is wrong in Polish, too.

terdon

@JustynaNogala So, in Polish you have spaces around punctuation?

RegDwigнt

3:54 PM

It is wrong in all Slavic languages.

Justyna Nogala

So I copied this technique

RegDwigнt

It is not a technique. It is the absence of all techniques.

Justyna Nogala

and put into English

And I have never been told if it was a bad thing

Mitch

@RegDwigнt most of my typing is in whitespace, which gets cut off. So I win.

RegDwigнt

So here's the most valuable advice you will get all day : fire that teacher . From a cannon . Into the Sun .

@JustynaNogala but certainly you have read books? Or newspapers? Or YouTube comments?

Because you'll have a very hard time finding that "technique" in a single book, newspaper, or YouTube comment.

terdon

3:55 PM

@RegDwigнt What's up with all the spaces?

Justyna Nogala

@RegDwigнt I know it is wrong to do that

But as I said

I didn't pay attention to that

RegDwigнt

@terdon it's a new "technique" I'm trying. It's called "letting unemployed Greeks waste their lives away on polluting the interwebs with spaces".

Mrs Merkel is watching my progress very closely.

Justyna Nogala

because I do in automaticly

RegDwigнt

Bingo. Just as I said.

Mitch

@RegDwigнt That won't work. The escape velocity of the earth and the trajectory needed to direct towards the sun would cause such friction in the atmosphere, the body mass of the teacher would at first rip apart into largish chunks, and depending on the weather patterns might explode into a rainshower of flesh or if it keeps together would incinerate.

I'm Pedantic Man.

Justyna Nogala

3:57 PM

and I have never been acused of using it wrong

terdon

@RegDwigнt Seems to be working well :)

RegDwigнt

Not a typo, muscle memory, learned that way, doing on purpose. Just as I suspected. Now how hard was it to just say "yes".

terdon

@JustynaNogala Somehow, I doubt you will ever do it again after this conversation :)

RegDwigнt

Five people have just wasted a full hour of their precious lifetime each on spelling out the conclusion "Reg was right all along".

This must be celebrated by muting some commies.

Justyna Nogala

hahha

yes you are right

not to mention You're too self confident

I was trying to answer you but having been pressed by dosen questions I couldn't answer to that specific question.

However my English teachers have never told me about such a punctuation

Mitch

4:02 PM

@RegDwigнt That's not what I got out of all this. I was more into the incinerating large chunks of flesh thing. So not a total waste.

Justyna Nogala

They do not pay attention so do I

I don't either

*

Mitch

Wait... has it been an hour already?

checks watch

notes does not have watch. checks computer clock

Robusto

room topic changed to English Language & Usage: We are Acme Widget Corp. We are using software. [you-have-been-warned]

Mitch

notes new chatrooom name instead of clock time

because they're both 'up there'

Robusto

That makes no sense in my country. YMMV. — Robusto 10 secs ago

Mitch

4:10 PM

@JustynaNogala the rule is 'for almost all punctuation: no space before, single space afterwards. Exceptions: open parens and open quotes (space before, no space after), sometimes spaces on both sides of a dash (it depends on the editor).

So no space before '?' or ',' ever

@Robusto Haven't you set all about? You turn yourself around, and that's what it's all about.

Mahlzeit!

terdon

@Mitch Open quotes? Like " Hello", he said?

Matt E. Эллен

4:53 PM

I have the puzzling yet elating feeling of getting code to work, but not being sure why

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Oh man, I hate that. 9 times out of 10 it turns out it was a fluke and fails if you change the input slightly or something.

Matt E. Эллен

the weird thing is, the change I made should have broken the code further

I was fully expecting it to crash sooner

not work

oh well

I'll just hope that it never ever goes wrong!

terdon

Famous penultimate words.

Matt E. Эллен

:D

terdon

The associated last ones are usually "Shit!"

Johan Larsson

4:55 PM

in C# on Stack Overflow Chat, 13 mins ago, by Mike Asdf

Matt E. Эллен

yeah.

@JohanLarsson lol

Robusto

@JohanLarsson hahaha ain't that the truth?

Johan Larsson

I do the same in C#/Wpf

As can be seen here

Not all are frameworks, the ones suffixed by Box is helping noobs with small samples

Mitch

@terdon no, like "Hello". now where to put punctuation for a sentence with a quotation, that's next semester.

@MattE.Эллен It compiles? Ship it!!

Matt E. Эллен

@Mitch already done :D

Mitch

5:06 PM

@JohanLarsson ha ha. and a subsystem in Java that is essentially a Lisp interpreter.

terdon

@Mitch I don't see any spaces there. What am I missing?

Mitch

@MattE.Эллен Nice! fail early and often!

@terdon oh. spaces are invisible. or transparent. one or the other.

Like_"Hello".

terdon

@Mitch Oh, d'oh! Of course! That one is so natural I just didn't even notice it.

terdon

5:24 PM

I knew it! My bad Perl habits are tchrist's fault!

Matt E. Эллен

5:36 PM

I knew it! All of my bad code was caused by someone else :p

(me from an alternate timeline)

terdon

Matt Who?

Matt E. Эллен

he doesn't have a goatee

and has an elf as an avatar

@terdon have you met his assistant?

Robusto

@MattE.Эллен But does he have a cowee or a pigee?

Matt E. Эллен

@Robusto more likely a fishee

Robusto

Fish are not farm animalees.

Matt E. Эллен

5:46 PM

trout farms...

Robusto

but after a while / you realize / time flies

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Tom's?

Matt E. Эллен

@terdon Matt's

or "companion"

terdon

@MattE.Эллен Now I get the reference :)

Matt E. Эллен

:D

Johan Larsson

6:16 PM

@Mitch activity in geb

Mitch

@JohanLarsson nice. I checked a couple hours ago and nothing for a couple days.

andy has a lot of good points.

Johan Larsson

in Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid on Stack Overflow Chat, 12 secs ago, by Johan Larsson

in English Language & Usage on The Stack Exchange Network Chat, 3 mins ago, by Mitch

andy has a lot of good points.

crl

there should be a broadcast command

Robusto

7:12 PM

@crl: Close to another personal best today. Missed it by about 12 seconds.

crl

nice, it would be cool to log many things like the wind, pressure, temperature, the hour of the day, your physical parameters also, and do a prediction model

Robusto

@crl Yeah, but I would need a watch the size of a Citroën for that.

skill patrol

7:29 PM

Doesn't the iWatch do that kinda stuff?

skill patrol

7:53 PM

Hi pal @Arrowfar :-)

user116848

Hi @skillpatrol!

user116848

How is it going?

user116848

It is a Ramadan month here these days.

skill patrol

Not much. How are you?

user116848

en.wikipedia.org/?title=Ramadan

user116848

7:57 PM

Wkipedia links aren't showing like they used to?

skill patrol

Are you on mobile?

user116848

But SE chat supports wikipedia.

user116848

No I am on PC.

user116848

Maybe it is the link. I'll try again.

user116848

@JohanLarsson Hej!

crl

8:54 PM

@Arrowfar try replacing ?title= with wiki/

Mitch

@Robusto nice! then you can take a car when you get tired.

@Arrowfar summer is the hardest time for Ramadan... much longer days.

androidplusios.design

I have very poor grammar. I didn't scored well in my SAT exam. Now, I just two years left for my post grad. I want to improvise all of it by scoring well in GRE. I don't wanna pay for GRE preparation considering internet is a very good resource for free knowledge. Help me to map my learning curve.

Also, I don't have a good reading habbit. What should I do to improve it? Usually, I can't concentrate while reading books because I can't make a brief summary of content I have read which then turns boring.

terdon

10:01 PM

Where's @kitfox when you need her?

0