English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

00:24

Do that many people observe case in their google searches?

I search everything in lower case.

O0oO0oOO0ooO

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Yeah, many people do including me

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I was reacting to the google thing on the star wall.

It's possible that they added upper case.

Cerberus

00:47

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Go PC!

Cerberus

Yay!

It will always stay ahead, but Sony made a big leap with the PS4.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I haven't bought a console since the Pikachu 64.

Cerberus

Aww.

I've played on a Wii.

Last time I played on any console.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Same.

Cerberus

00:59

I don't think I've ever played on any non-Nintendo console.

Have you?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

I played a little on a PS2.

Cerberus

Turncoat!

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

One of the Grand Theft Autos.

Cerberus

Well, well.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

._.

Cerberus

01:01

It's OK.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

:)

MετάEd

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Heh.

I still have it.

Cerberus

Hmm.

I didn't know you were the mother of God.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

Kiss me, son of god.

MετάEd

01:04

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Which makes you Cerb's grandmother?

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

pinches Cerb's cheeks

Cerberus

Oh, I thought this was some monotheistic God.

theverge.com/2013/6/12/4422020/…

This article tries to argue why Nintendo shouldn't publish games for smartphones. But no real argument is given, except that enough people just must have Mario etc. games and will so be forced to buy Nintendo hardware; the suggestion is that they make a much larger profit on the hardware than they possibly could by sell more games, on other platforms.

This is the lock-in mechanism that I talked to @mr.shinyandnew about.

It may or may not work, but it sucks for consumers: they're being pressured to buy hardware they don't want, and they are deprived of playing Mario on their phones.

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

The bf wondered last night if Nintendo renamed the Game Boy the Nintendo DS in an attempt to get more girls to play.

O0oO0oOO0ooO

we don't need nintendo to create smart phone games

because we can run nintendo games on smart phones with emulator applications

Cerberus

01:20

@cornbreadninja麵包忍者 Haha. Who knows?

@O0oO0oOO0ooO Right, but probably not al games are available? And do they all work equally well?

O0oO0oOO0ooO

yes

totally

Cerberus

Is it easy to find them and get them to work? Could my baby sister do it?

O0oO0oOO0ooO

it's easy

you just need to download some ROMs (files to run on Nintendo emulator) and just run them on emulator apps

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

my little baby sister can do it with ease / it's easier than learning' your ABCs

cornbread ninja 麵包忍者

01:46

so come on, come on and / do the locomotion with me

O0oO0oOO0ooO

Is Singapore rich?

Cerberus

Yes.

O0oO0oOO0ooO

Ok, they are fairly rich but not as rich as Korea

over

Cerberus

I think they are just as rich.

wolframalpha.com/input/…

In fact, their GDP per capita is twice as high as in Korea.

O0oO0oOO0ooO

02:01

Their total GDP is 239.7 billion USD

And Korea's total GDP is 1.116 trillion USD (2011)

I think the difference is that Singaporean companies needs to pay more to their workers than Korean companies need to pay to Korean workers

Cerberus

One normally means GDP per capita when one says "rich".

O0oO0oOO0ooO

I believe Singapore is extremely expensive country to live. One Happy Meal probably cost 20 dollars in Singapore but it's 5 dollars in Korea

Cerberus

Those stats are corrected for that, they're PPP.

Hmm I see only the total GDP is corrected for that, not the GDP per capita. But it won't make enough of a difference anyway.

List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita

This article includes several lists of countries by gross domestic product at purchasing power parity per capita, the value of all final goods and services produced within a country in a given year divided by the average (or mid-year) population for the same year. Gross domestic product (GDP) dollar estimates are derived from purchasing power parity (PPP) calculations, per capita. Such calculations are prepared by various organizations, including the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. As estimates and assumptions have to be made, the results produced by different organizatio...

O0oO0oOO0ooO

I just realised

when you eat a Subway, buy a foot long sandwich then move all the vegies and meats from one half of sandwich to the other half and throw away the left over bun

then you can eat a meal with low carbohydrate

*proper meal (edit -- meal)

Robusto

12:55

Don't forget that ELL came online at the beginning of the year. While the quantity may be going down, it's possible the quality is going up. This may be a desirable effect, as our S/N ratio may be improving. — Robusto 26 secs ago

RegDwighт

List of screw drives

A screw drive is the system used to turn a screw. At a minimum, it is a feature on the screw that allows for it to be turned. Usually it also involves a mating tool, such as a screwdriver, that is used to turn it. The following heads are categorized based on commonality, with the less common drives being classified as "tamper-resistant". Most heads come in a range of sizes, typically distinguished by a number, such as "Phillips #00" or "Torx T5". These sizes are not characterized by a linear dimension, but are arbitrary designations in the same sense as a "Size 8" shoe or dress. Common...

Robusto

I like the part about the mating tool.

RegDwighт

I checked your Facebook, no you don't.

Robusto

NSA tampered with my Facebook.

RegDwighт

That's okay, you only have to remember one thing.

Gah, image won't upload.

Looks like they tampered with my Chrome as well.

Robusto

13:07

This conversation is being recorded even as we speak.

RegDwighт

That sucks. I thought they were only spying on their own citizens, not on Russians.

tchrist

Lotta nerve, saddling a kid with a name like Willard in this day and age.

Robusto

13:24

@RegDwighт That's why we go over this stuff.

@tchrist The thing I find exceptionable in that image is the horrible kerning in WTF. Also how much punctuation do you need for three letters?

RegDwighт

Thankfully they never look at names. They only look at numbers. Once they have identified a number as a terrorist, they add 42 to it so other terrorist numbers don't recognize it and lose contact.

tchrist

@Robusto I promise it’s not mine. The kerning is even bad on the punctuation. But truly, WTF already has built-in puncts, so there’s no need to add any.

Noah

I think they spy on everyone

RegDwighт

Seriously, WTF was Obama even talking about. The moment it's not scripted, he stops making sense.

Robusto

Obama is a huge disappointment. Our government is BROKE/n.

tchrist

13:30

I don’t know which remark you’re referring to, but my cuffless guess is that he was trying to hold back privileged or damaging info, and managed to hold back enough that it left his words a scattershot palimpsest of actual information.

RegDwighт

@tchrist yes, that was obvious.

tchrist

@Robusto It’s the office itself. Doesn’t matter whom you put in there.

RegDwighт

And I'm referring to this, of course:

►

Robusto

@tchrist "scattershot palimpsest" — trying for a Googlewack?

Noah

I cannot believe he claims to be the leader of the US.

tchrist

13:31

@Noah Do you know where Dick Cheney is?

Robusto

@tchrist But I honestly wasn't disappointed in Bush. He lived up to my every expectation. I was only disappointed that he got into office.

Noah

@tchrist I don't. He might be in Syria? Why?

Robusto

@tchrist That's a trick question. The undead are never truly in a place, are they?

RegDwighт

"Looking at numbers [...] They are not looking at people's names and they are not looking at content." And by doing that they identify "folks who might engage in terrorism". Of course!

tchrist

@RegDwighт Very good, Reg: your video crashed Safari and impeded its restart.

Robusto

13:34

That's some powerful shit.

RegDwighт

So 55516234 called 5551623, and 555087892 called 55512451. Thus we conclude that 55519284 must be a terrorist! Sadly we can't do anything about it because we don't have the name or content.

Who the f buys this?

Other than journalists, of course.

Robusto

Caprica Six is an NSA tool.

tchrist

@Robusto Not trying; succeeding.

Noah

"Benjamin Franklin famously wrote that those who would give up essential liberty to try to gain some temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

Robusto

!!/define NSA

Caprica Six

13:35

@Robusto NSA National Security Agency.

Robusto

See?

RegDwighт

70% of the Internet consists of that quote by now. Yet 100% of the people who solicit it are running free.

tchrist

BSD?

Robusto

BFD.

Noah

Next time the Obama administration might ask the FBI to install security cameras in both public and private restrooms.

Cerberus

13:38

@RegDwighт He's very bad, but surely you understand what he means?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus no, I do not, in point of fact.

Cerberus

Okay, then let me explain it.

tchrist

How can you track a terrorist if you can’t figure out his name and address?

Cerberus

They store all data, everything, including calls.

Robusto

@Cerberus @Cerb just outed himself as a terrorist because he knows who 5551623 is.

RegDwighт

13:39

He says that they only look at numbers, and then proceeds to call that "metadata". Numbers are not metadata. He is clearly weaseling his way out. He knows that. We know that.

tchrist

The content is the data, no?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus ah, that. Well yes, that part I understand. But that's not what he says, clearly.

Robusto

@RegDwighт Nice marmot.

Cerberus

But a human being can only access the metadata, unless there is reasonable suspicion against a person behind the metadata.

Then this human being needs to get a court to approve to access the name and content of the calls.

tchrist

If what is being said is the data, then wouldn’t the metadata be the caller and the callee and the start and end time and such?

RegDwighт

13:40

@Cerberus nice try, Keith Alexander.

tchrist

@Cerberus And do we believe that happens?

Cerberus

I'm not saying I believe it. But that's what he says.

RegDwighт

@tchrist and if we do, then why?

tchrist

I have no reason to believe it.

Cerberus

@tchrist Depends. In this case, he says it's only the numbers, no names or content. I agree that a name would normally be a meta-datum.

Robusto

13:42

@Cerberus And do you how often the court refuses to give that information? About 5 times in 20,000. Like 0.025% of the time. It's a fig leaf.

Cerberus

My guess is rather 0 %. However, it still means somebody has seen your request to see the data (if it's all true).

RegDwighт

> Nadler: Okay, then I can say the following: we heard precisely the opposite at the briefing the other day. We heard precisely that you could get uh the specific information from that telephone simply based on an analyst deciding that and you didn't need a new warrant.

tchrist

In order to get that information without the account name, the phone companies would have to turn over specially laundered data. Normally, call information includes the originator’s name. Just not the callee’s.

Cerberus

So it will be harder for Joe NSA agent to access your sister's nude pictures.

Robusto

@Cerberus I wish they could access my sister's nude pictures. That would send a bunch of them home sick for sure.

Cerberus

13:44

@tchrist Or, rather, the NSA's computers automatically lock certain fields in the database they got from Verizon. I read that they developed such database software, where certain fields are only visible with special clearance.

@Robusto Hey! Don't defile your own nest, as we say in Dutch.

tchrist

Nuff said.

Cerberus

:9915491 So? If you give them data that include name and number, they can put the name in a separate field and lock it automatically, right?

tchrist

They could.

That would take extra work.

Robusto

@Cerberus Hmm, Dutch sounds suspiciously like English.

Cerberus

@tchrist I told you they had developed special software to do just that.

@Robusto It's the Anglification of the world.

Let me find the article...

Robusto

13:48

@Cerberus American Exceptionalism! (Now available in Bioshock Infinite.)

Another great Dan Carlin podcast.

Cerberus

gigaom.com/2013/06/07/…

@tchrist This is the software they presumably use.

@Robusto A country thinks it's "special". How novel. Next thing you're telling me there are teenage girls who think they're "special"!

Oh, and in case anyone was surprised about the NSA's spying, I remember reading this in 2012, and I believe it was known many years before: wired.com/threatlevel/2012/03/ff_nsadatacenter/all

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I think by discussing which field they lock in what manner we completely drop the actual point: they should not be having any fields to begin with. There must not be any fields. This whole pre-cog shit must not exist. Not because it's pointless and doesn't work, but because its whole premise, its very definition is "guilty until proven innocent". No matter how many fields you lock, that premise is still there. It is plain illegal.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Of course.

I was just explaining what O. meant.

Although, illegal? I don't know about that. It appears American lawmakers and "courts" are OK with it. Secret courts, of course.

tchrist

@RegDwighт Illegal?

Their claim of legality relies upon classified interpretations of broadly worded laws. We do not know.

RegDwighт

@tchrist Well, actually by that definition, everything is legal. That we do know. Which is why we have the whole situation in the first place.

Cerberus

13:58

I think the main reason behind most of the secrecy is that people cannot question it.

RegDwighт

The interpretations are classified, and the courts secret, for a reason.

Cerberus

For that exact reason.

tchrist

And that reason is?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus at which point legal or illegal has no meaning.

tchrist

That they not be subjected to scrutiny?

Cerberus

13:59

48 secs ago, by Cerberus

I think the main reason behind most of the secrecy is that people cannot question it.

Yes.

@RegDwighт I agree.

tchrist

Bad things happen in the dark.

Cerberus

If you make enough bad laws, people lose respect for the law.

As Mr Shiny says.

RegDwighт

The secret interpretation will always be in favor of the one upkeeping the secrecy. Otherwise there would be no reason for the secrecy.

If I ask my secret lawyers, "May I shoot that toddler in the face?" then there is no reason for their answer to be secret unless it's a "Yes!"

Robusto

@RegDwighт It all hinges on the definition of terrorist. Just say the word, and the Patriot Act kicks in.

RegDwighт

@Robusto I found it hilarious how the author of the Patriot Act criticized the Prism shit for going against the spirit of the Patriot Act.

Cerberus

14:03

Yeah.

RegDwighт

It really takes quite some skill to one-up Bush.

Cerberus

By the way, did you know that the wife of congressman Rogers scored a defense contract of several billion dollars with her company? And that she stands to profit a great deal from CISPA, the evil law that Rogers is trying to get through both Houses?

RegDwighт

Well she didn't marry him for no reason.

Cerberus

CISPA is like PRISM, but perhaps even worse, in that it grants impunity to companies that give user data to the government.

Now at least Google & co. have a reason to reject a large number of government requests each year.

@RegDwighт I suppose that is true.

Robusto

@RegDwighт I can't believe he could even make the words come out of his mouth.

RegDwighт

14:08

The wife of Luzhkov's, who was Moscow's mayor for like two decades, consistently showed up on Forbes' Most Richest Russians List, in the Top 3.

Cerberus

Hilarious.

RegDwighт

She had no job or qualification. She was just a wife. That was all she needed to become a billionaire. Dollar billionaire, mind you, not rubles.

Cerberus

Are German representatives rich?

tchrist

@Robusto Maybe he was referring to some ghost that haunts the Patriot Act.

It certainly ain’t Ben Franklin’s.

Cerberus

Dutch representatives are mostly not rich at all.

Robusto

14:10

►

Cerberus

But there is something of a revolving door.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus yes but with two caveats. 1) not on that scale, and 2) they are quite typically rich first, then become representatives.

Cerberus

Ministers often go to banks and Shell and such.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus oh yeah.

Robusto

Cassel: If the president deems that he's got to torture somebody, including by crushing the testicles of the person's child, there is no law that can stop him?
Yoo: No treaty
Cassel: Also no law by Congress -- that is what you wrote in the August 2002 memo...
Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that.

RegDwighт

14:10

All the time.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Okay, well, I think American representatives are also usually very rich before being elected.

tchrist

@Cerberus The poor do not get elected. Do you know how much it costs?

RegDwighт

We have a fresh case on our hands right now. Some minister, I don't even remember which, is going to the industry in a couple months. Everyone is calling for his resignation now, which of course will not happen.

Robusto

@Cerberus You're putting the cart before the horse. Senators are rich, representatives get rich in office.

tchrist

@RegDwighт What, just because he has a job lined up for afterwards?

RegDwighт

14:12

@tchrist no, because the job is a direct conflict of interest with his current one.

Cerberus

@tchrist Yeah, that's part of the problem. It's different here: you mainly just need to be a career politician. You don't need to be intelligent or anything, of course. But at least they're not usually rich.

@RegDwighт At least the Americans have some laws against the revolving door, where you're not allowed to work in a certain field for some years.

RegDwighт

@Robusto don't you even remind me of Yoo.

Cerberus

@Robusto But surely they're already rich before that?

Robusto

@Cerberus Depends on how you do your accounting. You can't get into office without raising funds, and what you do with the funds is not precisely calibrated.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus that's the precise situation here as well. And yet sooner or later all of them make more money than I do.

Cerberus

14:14

@Robusto No, I mean personal wealth. Surely the funds raised go into a separate campaign account?

Robusto

Yoo: I think it depends on why the President thinks he needs to do that. I think we know whose testicles need crushing.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт But before, during, or after being in Parliament?

Robusto

@Cerberus Hahaha, you Dutchffolk are adorable.

Cerberus

Nawt?

RegDwighт

@Robusto I almost wrote that but then remembered that Beloved Leader Yoo was reading this chat.

@Cerberus ah, I'm not talking Parliament in particular. Politicians in general. Can be local ones. Not as low as a simple mayor of some village, of course.

Robusto

14:16

@RegDwighт Nah, he's temporarily off the government teat. But he'll be back. Or if not he, then a thousand others just like him.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт I believe councillors of small towns are in fact more likely to be local magnates here (though not mayors).

tchrist

@Cerberus Everywhere.

Cerberus

Yeah.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus simply way too many mayors on way too many levels in way too many states here to generalize.

Cerberus

Sure.

Are your mayors elected?

tchrist

14:19

Look at who sits on the city council. It is very usually mostly local business types.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus yes.

Cerberus

Ours are not.

RegDwighт

We are not a hereditary mayorchy.

Cerberus

@tchrist Mostly? I don't think they would be the majority here. Just a few.

tchrist

Do you vote for the city council, and then that council chooses a mayor from amongst themselves?

Cerberus

14:19

@RegDwighт Ours are appointed by cabinet, except in a few cities.

@tchrist Nope.

RegDwighт

Even in Russia, the mayors are elected. By none other than the President, in fact!

tchrist

Then how does it happen?

Cerberus

Haha.

28 secs ago, by Cerberus

@RegDwighт Ours are appointed by cabinet, except in a few cities.

So they're just career politicians.

Robusto

@RegDwighт No. You Germans have Burger Kings.

Cerberus

The parties in government pick mayors from their own parties.

tchrist

14:22

What does appointed by cabinet mean?

That sounds rather wrong.

Cerberus

Cabinet = all ministers of the Crown.

tchrist

I don’t understand.

You’re saying that your MPs appoint city mayors? That’s wacked.

Cerberus

Not MPs.

Ministers aren't in Parliament here.

tchrist

Even worse then.

Can you imagine the uproar if the Secretary of the Interior were the one to appoint city mayors?

Just couldn’t happen.

Cerberus

One remains mayor as long as one wants, I believe; then, if a position becomes vacant, cabinet appoints someone new.

tchrist

14:24

Bifuckingzarre.

Sounds like Soviet Russia.

Cerberus

Actually, it doesn't matter a great deal, in practice, because mayors don't get to decide on important things.

tchrist

Who does?

The city manager?

Cerberus

@tchrist Having cabinet appoint judges, now that's Soviet Russia.

@tchrist The city council and the national government.

tchrist

I don’t understand what your mayor is.

We have an elected city council. They choose their own mayor. They also hire a city manager.

Robusto

@Reg is annoyed because I called him a German.

Cerberus

14:26

What does your mayor do?

tchrist

Cuts ribbons.

Cerberus

Exactly.

tchrist

bouldercolorado.gov/…

It’s just a figurehead position, really, or at least, mostly.

It’s a point-of-contact for external communications.

Cerberus

Isn't that exactly what I'm saying?

Our mayor decides on some day-to-day stuff, but he can't really make policy on major things.

tchrist

I don’t know. It doesn’t seem right that it isn’t elected.

RegDwighт

14:28

@Robusto no I'm annoyed because my wife can't use the Internetfahrplan so I have to walk her through most basic shit and can't duscuss The Real Shit like Dutch mayors.

tchrist

But then, our city manager is hired not elected, too.

And he makes a lot of the daily exec decisions.

Cerberus

People here are mainly indifferent to mayorial elections.

tchrist

We don’t have mayoral elections.

This is not Chicago.

Cerberus

The mayor of Utrecht is elected, the 4th-largest city.

Nobody cares.

He's still a career politician.

tchrist

In the West, usually it is a Council–Manager government for towns. In the East, the mayor has much more power.

Cerberus

14:29

So Reg told us, yes...

Like transferring money to his wife.

tchrist

> The City of Boulder has a Council-Manager form of government. Under this form of government, the elected City Council sets the policies for the operation of the Boulder government. The administrative responsibility of the city rests with the city manager who is appointed by the City Council. The City Council consists of nine members: a mayor, a mayor pro tem and seven council members.

Robusto

@RegDwighт I think she's smarter than you let on. Wives do this fake "I can't use the Internetfahrplan" shit to get their husbands to relate to them when they want to talk about The Real Shit instead.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт What Internetfahrplan? Is that like tomtom.com?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus saarbahn.de/de/start

tchrist

Council–manager government

The council–manager government form is one of two predominant forms of municipal government in the United States; the other common form of local government is the mayor-council government form, which characteristically occurs in large cities. Council–manager government form also is used in county governments in the United States and the governing body in a county may be called a council, a commission, freeholders, aldermen, and such. The council-manager form also is used for municipal government in Canada and in Ireland, among many other countries, both for city councils and county council...

Mayor–council government

The mayor–council government system, sometimes called the mayor–commission government system, is one of the two most common forms of local government for municipalities in the United States. It is the one most frequently adopted in large cities, although the other form, council-manager government, is the typical local government form of more municipalities. Characterized by having a mayor who is elected by the voters, the mayor–council variant may be broken down into two main variations depending on the relationship between the legislative and executive branches, becoming a weak mayor or...

RegDwighт

14:31

@Robusto at least it's (somewhat) in my hands now at which time exactly she stops doing that and has to take the bus instead. You gotta give her that.

tchrist

The West tends to have weak mayors. This is seen as a good thing.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Okay, that site does suck.

But why don't you use db.de or something?

RegDwighт

Except of course she'll miss the bus anyway, and the next one, and then just walk.

Cerberus

Oh, it's about buses.

You have no national site that has all public transport?

RegDwighт

@Cerberus why would I use the rainway timetables to look up when the next bus from my house is leaving to a house two block West?

@Cerberus yes.

Cerberus

14:33

Because rainway timetables are nice?

tchrist

> The legislative body, which is voted into office by public elections, appoints a professional manager to oversee the administrative operations, implement its policies, and advise it. The position of "mayor" present in this type of legislative body is a largely ceremonial title, and may be selected by the council from among its members or elected as an at-large council member with no executive functions.

It’s just ceremonial, but is still an elected city councillor to start with.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus I don't think so. But again, why would I use that one. This one here is from the local bus company, and it's excellent in every regard imaginable.

tchrist

What is a rainway?

Cerberus

So American cities are corporations now not only in practice, but also in name.

tchrist

@Cerberus Huh?

Cerberus

14:35

@RegDwighт If that's what you call excellent...

tchrist

What is the alternative to appointing judges? Electing them?

Cerberus

There's election, appointment, and coöptation.

We have the last.

tchrist

I have no idea what that word means.

Cerberus

You have a combination of the first and the second, I believe.

@tchrist Judges themselves pick new judges.

!!/define cooptation

tchrist

At least here, our judges are appointed but subject to regular "votes of confidence" type things.

Caprica Six

14:37

@Cerberus That didn't make much sense. Maybe you meant: define

RegDwighт

Pictured top to bottom: rain, way.

tchrist

Your slash is backwards.

Caprica Six

@Cerberus That didn't make much sense. Maybe you meant: define

@Cerberus cooptation A co-opting: a commandeering, appropriation, or taking over.

Cerberus

Ugh, I hate slashes.

tchrist

Slashes are fine.

It is backslashes which are the abomination.

Cerberus

14:38

Okay, where does Caprica get her definitions?

cooptation
co·opt
verb (used with object)
1. to elect into a body by the votes of the existing members.
2. to assimilate, take, or win over into a larger or established group: The fledgling Labor party was coopted by the Socialist party.
3. to appropriate as one's own; preempt: The dissidents have coopted the title of her novel for their slogan.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus What's the point of that bashing now. You haven't even used it. I've been using it almost every week for twelve years.

tchrist

Our ballots always include a "vote to retain" for county judges.

Cerberus

@tchrist My mind can never remember which is which. Just as I can't remember which direction to turn things except intuitively.

@RegDwighт You said yourself the site sucked.

I had to type a data *by hand*1

RegDwighт

Wait, you can't remember that forward is to the right? Like, um, with everything in our writing?

Cerberus

I had to type a date by hand!

RegDwighт

14:41

@Cerberus I never said any such thing.

@Cerberus oh haha. Right. Yes, they changed that like two months ago. I've been enraged ever since.

Before that, it would fill in the date and the time.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт I was talking about slashes. Which part is forward, the top or the bottom? And how do I remember which slash does what? It's all too arbitrary for my poor ratio.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus when you lean forward, do you do so with your feet?

A forward slash is leaning forward.

Cerberus

@RegDwighт Thankfully, I discovered a tooltip popped up eventually after hovering over the date field long enough. Then of course I still got it wrong, because I had already forgotten that it said ".13" instead of ".2013".

@RegDwighт My slashes are not feet.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus precisely. They are head.

Cerberus

They're bollocks.

RegDwighт

14:44

NoO U

Cerberus

I can do the "or" slash, because I use it often enough.

Like/this.

But for a slash with any other meaning is just too hard to remember which is which.

RegDwighт

@Cerberus then just remember that the OR slash is fORward.

Cerberus

I often type web addresses with the wrong slash, for example — when I type them, that is: of course I hardly ever do.

@RegDwighт I doubt I would even be able to remember that, and then there is the "forward" thing that means nothing in my mind.

RegDwighт

Er, but it doesn't have to mean anything at that point.

That's the whole point of having a mnemonic.

Cerberus

So I would have to memorise two mnemonics and make sure I'm not applying the wrong one at the wrong time.

RegDwighт

14:47

Whatever. If you don't actually want to remember, it's your fair right.

Cerberus

Look, if I were at all capable of remembering something like this, don't you think I would have been able to turn knobs in the right direction by now?

I still need to actually move my hand to know.

But I admit that I'm not coöperative at the moment.

pouts and sulks

RegDwighт

One last chance: forward is acute, backward is grave. Now that's an easy one.

Cerberus

Ah, another pair I can never remember. The only way I can remember those is by knowing that the acute is the normal accent in Greek, which is like this: é.

Of course I know which accent to use where in French: it's only the names that are hard.

RegDwighт

See. Forward is normal. Backward is not normal, totally backwards in fact.

Cerberus

It too me years.

I think I even had them memorised backwards until I was 15 or so.

RegDwighт

14:52

You still have millions of years in Hell. It's not like you have better things to do.

Cerberus

But it really makes sense in Greek: if the tone goes up, it's acute; if the tone goes down, it's graaaaaave.

RegDwighт

Though of course by the time you've learned forward it will be called bluaorhgunzt.

Cerberus

So all you have to do to memorise the accent names is know that they correspond to tones going from left to right.

@RegDwighт Stupid language. Always changing just to annoy me.

Wow. The Turkish government has used chemicals in water cannons against protesters.

They described a "burning" sensation.

Oh shit, it's going to be 30 degrees on Tuesday.

Robusto

@Cerberus There are only five 'a's in graaaaave.

Cerberus

Oops.

Robusto

14:59

We should get Caprica Six to give you that one as a puzzle.

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