English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

MετάEd

12:32 AM

@tchrist I found mine, thanks though.

Robusto

Vegetable insults is #1 on the multicollider.

tchrist

Has been all day.

Hence the gold problem.

I finally voted to close.

Robusto

Meanwhile, my nice plug for Robert Pinsky's English translation of The Inferno got deleted along with the question itself.

english.stackexchange.com/a/8085/2303

Go do something useful. Delete veggie insults. Let's close that sucker right now. It's gotta be off topic or something. Not constructive.

tchrist

I’m sorry.

I liked your terza rima thing.

Robusto

Three votes for closing veggie love.

Can we get two more? I say, Can we get two more freakin' votes to close the worst question we've seen all year?

tchrist

12:41 AM

It’s a start.

Robusto

Seriously, one in seven gold-badge questions (10k views) has been closed. And most of the rest ought to be.

Keeping Up With The Cardassians.

tchrist

All those views golds suck.

I don’t know what that means, Rob.

Robusto

Pun on Cardassians from Star Trek => The Kardashians from who the fuck cares where.

Keeping Up with the Kardashians

Keeping Up with the Kardashians (often referred to simply as The Kardashians) is an American reality television series that premiered on October 14, 2007, on E!. It follows the lives of the Kardashian/Jenner family, including sisters Kourtney, Kim, and Khloé Kardashian. As of September 2012, seven seasons of the series have aired. On April 24, 2012, E! signed a new three-year deal with the Kardashian family that will keep the series on the air through the ninth season. The series' success has led to three spin-offs: Kourtney and Kim Take New York, Khloé & Lamar and Kourtney and Kim Take M...

I've read about this and I still don't know what it is.

tchrist

Fuck that noise. I mean, really. Not just TV but irreality TV!?

Robusto

It's of a piece with our veggie question.

tchrist

12:45 AM

We have a question about these chickies?

Robusto

No.

I'm trying to find an unreal-world parallel.

tchrist

ok

Robusto

For the vapidity and aridity of such questions.

KitFox

1:11 AM

Hola.

Robusto

Hullo.

Can you help rid us of this turbulent vegetable question?

KitFox

Maybe. I dunno. I'm on the iPad, practicing Cyrillic.

I was just popping in to ask @Reg if the handwriting here is cursive, or just regular, like people usually write in italic script.

Robusto

I can tell you that it is.

I had to learn to write cursive Russian when I took it in high school, and that's what it looks like.

KitFox

Oh. I didn't know you knew any Russian. Thanks.

Robusto

I know very little. That was a long time ago. I only took the class because it was a catholic high school, segregated by gender, and I knew there would be girls in that class because they couldn't afford to have two Russian teachers.

KitFox

1:18 AM

Good reason.

tchrist

The clumsy-as-a-cauliflower question’s closevote is still at 3. Well, maybe people think it is useful. I’d like to find those people and have them tell me why.

Clever as a cattail. Frisky as a fern. Daft as a daffodil. Nimble as a nasturtian. Wry as rye. Cute as a catkin. Horny as an artichoke. Cheerful as a cherry.

Sȱɳɨȼ Ʈħe ǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ

Yes

Tried to type in chat for past days with no success.

I removed Yontoo, and it worked again.

Anyway

tchrist

It’s your login name.

Sȱɳɨȼ Ʈħe ǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ

After one year of using 5-year old slide-phone with ladybug equivalent functions,

@tchrist Cool, right?

My parents finally bought me Galaxy 3.

Woot.

This calls for celebration.

tchrist

Raunchy as a redwood.

Sȱɳɨȼ Ʈħe ǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ

1:32 AM

?

tchrist

I’m insulting people using members of the plant kingdom as models.

It isn’t going very well.

Robusto

Agile as an aglet.

Mahnax

@SȱɳɨȼƮħeǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ Someone's feeling entitled. . .

Blergh, the single-character ellipsis (U+2026) looks awful in Symbola.

Sȱɳɨȼ Ʈħe ǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ

@Mahnax Yeah, I know. But it is a good feeling after 1 year of using numpad for testing.

Robusto

OK, it's closed. The battle to delete it now begins. I voted, and it needs five more votes.

Sȱɳɨȼ Ʈħe ǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ

1:34 AM

@Mah Bad day?

And by Lord, that numpad was horrible.

It took me 3 times more time to type in words.

KitFox

@Robusto I don't think ethically I can do that. Probably not. Right now.

Robusto

Nah, I know you can't. But when it bets more votes maybe.

@tchrist: You in?

@Kit: One of the funny things about writing cursive Cyrillic is that m is the character for the t sound.

tchrist

In?

Robusto

Deleting vegetables.

Sȱɳɨȼ Ʈħe ǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ

@tchrist Hey, I got one. Horny as Hornworts.

KitFox

1:39 AM

@Robusto I know. Freaky.

@Robusto Exactly.

Sȱɳɨȼ Ʈħe ǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ

So... Mchrist?

Instead of T?

Robusto

Lower case, @Kit. Lower case.

tchrist

Great, it takes six delete votes already.

Sȱɳɨȼ Ʈħe ǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ

Dicksonia antarctica. Now that's an unfortunate species name.

KitFox

@Robusto Uh. What?

Robusto

1:42 AM

@KitFox tchrist writes his name in lower case.

Sȱɳɨȼ Ʈħe ǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ

Oh. mchrist then.

Robusto

And the capital T in Russian cursive is weird-looking anyway. Not anything you'd write in English.

Mahnax

@SȱɳɨȼƮħeǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ then, not than.

Sȱɳɨȼ Ʈħe ǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ

I really need to tell them apart.

tchrist

@SȱɳɨȼƮħeǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ *species

Unless it’s money.

Robusto

1:43 AM

What is the rule about number of delete votes?

Sȱɳɨȼ Ʈħe ǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ

Unless it's money?

tchrist

Add up all the votes for everything. 3 + (sum of votes)/20.

@SȱɳɨȼƮħeǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ Yes.

As in currency?

Look up specie.

Woo, coins.

2:03 AM

FYI:

@JSBձոգչ: I have edited my question. Is it now constructive? Can you consider to reopen again. Please. — Hanu 18 mins ago

It’s not much better, but he has made some attempt.

tchrist

4:06 AM

The most insulting of all vegetable names is Sigmund.

Sigmund, you see, is the name of my pet turnip.

MετάEd

#! /usr/bin/perl
use 5.010_000 ;
no 5.014_003 ;
Feature bundle "5.14.3" is not supported by Perl 5.10.0 at line 3

Sucks to be me, apparently.

tchrist

4:24 AM

?

I remember fighting my way with that at one point.

MετάEd

I checked the 5.10 perldocs; this seems to be the right way to express it. But I have never used "no" before.

tchrist

macbook# perl5.13.8 -e 'use 5.10.0; use 5.11.0; no 5.12.0'
Perls since v5.12.0 too modern--this is v5.13.8, stopped at -e line 1.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at -e line 1.

I think that "no" means "must be below".

What are you trying to do, make sure that your 5.10.0 <= your version < 5.14.3?

MετάEd

$ perl -v
This is perl, v5.10.0 built for cygwin-thread-multi-64int

tchrist

I just realized that @SȱɳɨȼƮħeǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ’s diacritics are like little hedgehog quills sticking out all over the place.

But what is it that you want to happen, under what circumstances?

MετάEd

I'm asserting that the compiler is a version that I have tested with the code, or at least that I have tested it at the two end points.

tchrist

4:29 AM

I just put the exact number I’ve tested it with.

MετάEd

I'm asserting, in this case, that the code is written to 5.10.0 through 5.14.2.

tchrist

Did you try it with 5.14.3 and find it does not work there?

Oh.

Did you test 5.14.3, or are you saying you have not tested it with that one?

MετάEd

And I am testing the assertion on 5.10.0 and getting the error.

This is my first ever attempt to use "no". 5.10.0 is the first compiler I'm trying.

I developed the code on 5.14.2 so it seemed reasonable to assert "no 5.014_003".

tchrist

I do not think it works right.

Well, in 5.10 at least.

MετάEd

@tchrist Quite possible. Are the unit tests for it online somewhere?

Maybe it works if phrased in a particular way. Maybe I need to use the "v" style version or something.

tchrist

4:31 AM

macbook# perl5.10.0 -e 'no 5.12.0'
Feature bundle "5.12.0" is not supported by Perl 5.10.0 at -e line 1
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at -e line 1.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at -e line 1.
Exit 9
macbook# perl5.12.3 -e 'no 5.14.0'
macbook# perl5.14.0 -e 'no 5.16.0'
macbook# perl5.16.0 -e 'no 5.18.0'

No, I tried the v-thingie too.

It just doesn’t work right on 5.10.

MετάEd

Well ... crap.

tchrist

Notice the higher incarnations do behave right.

Well, it is trivial to test yourself at compile time.

MετάEd

Here I am trying to be smart about what language standard I'm writing to, and the damned feature doesn't work.

tchrist

I think you should do your own calculations.

MετάEd

Sure. I can just check $^V or $[ (or $] -- I always forget)

How's that for overlapping brackets.

tchrist

4:33 AM

Right bracket.

To see if you are in the right bracket.

MετάEd

See? I should have used the right bracket.

tchrist

macbook# perl5.10.0 -le 'print $^V'
v5.10.0
macbook# perl5.10.0 -le 'print $]'
5.010000
macbook#

macbook# perl5.10.0 -le 'print $^V < v5.14.3'
1
macbook# perl5.10.0 -le 'print $^V lt v5.14.3'
1

MετάEd

I just need to install the 5.12 "no" pragma into 5.10.

tchrist

Don’t ask me. I forget. I think they overload both operators.

Good luck with that. :)

MετάEd

Somebody beat me unconscious, quick, before I try.

Because otherwise the effect will be the same, it'll just take longer.

tchrist

4:35 AM

Aye.

MετάEd

Psi.

tchrist

Wait.

There is no no.

It is a keyword.

MετάEd

You've lost me there: perldoc.perl.org/5.10.0/functions/no.html

tchrist

When you say "no integer", it loads "integer.pm" and calls its unimport() method.

When you say "use integer", it loads "integer.pm" and calls its import() method.

MετάEd

Sure, but VERSION is handled as a special case I presume.

tchrist

4:36 AM

So no and use are keywords, that have a BEGIN { require module; module->import }

Yes, exactly.

MετάEd

"the peculiar use VERSION form"

tchrist

And that you do not want to come as close as being in the same local cluster with.

Why are you running 5.10 again?

Because it "came" that way?

I thought cygwin has a much more recent port.

MετάEd

Don't get me started: I sympathize with: perlmonks.org/?node_id=978273

I have an Ubuntu LTS running 5.8.

tchrist

Please use v5.10.1 not v5.10.0.

MετάEd

I understand how great it is for a language to have new features added. But I also know I've got boxen running this or that version, and it's not just a compiler version. It's a language version.

tchrist

4:39 AM

hm.

Ok, rephrase.

Push on stack.

Yes, this is a really nutty thing.

It is because stuff isn't compiled and saved.

If it were, all would be well.

The stuff they’ve added to v5.1[0246] that warps the syntax is just begging for trouble.

MετάEd

I really think Perl should have done what many C compilers did: separate compiler version from language version.

tchrist

People do not understand back compat.

Yeah, well.

We figured that out much too late.

MετάEd

I should have been able to call up a Perl executable with a switch that identifies the version of the language that I am feeding it.

tchrist

That really is not practical.

We looked at it.

MετάEd

I realize it creates a combinatoric nightmare.

tchrist

4:42 AM

That is what we had wanted to do. It was too impossible.

Yes, exactly that.

MετάEd

There are already a million platforms to test. Multiply that by language versions. Yes, of course.

tchrist

So you use #!/usr/local/bin/perl5.010_000 or something.

MετάEd

Right. But that's not practical either.

tchrist

It is if you require a precise version.

MετάEd

Because you can't write #!/usr/bin/perl5.010_000–5.014_002.

tchrist

4:43 AM

There is a reason we make the version available.

MετάEd

What I should really be able to do is code something in Perl 5.8 (the language) and run it on any recent Perl executable. But we've just agreed that's a tough one.

tchrist

Just test it.

I know.

I’m sorry.

We have all wanted that.

MετάEd

"Just test it" is just moving the problem. Apparently the Perl project can't afford to test all those combinations, so instead the users have to. Which is what in economics is called an externality.

tchrist

I’ve heard it comes with a pony.

No, that is not the issue.

It is the code base.

MετάEd

It would actually be much, much more efficient to do the right thing. Just not more efficient for the Perl project itself.

tchrist

4:45 AM

No, you cannot do this.

You explode your executable.

And your source code.

We really did think hard about it.

You cannot maintain bug compatibility.

MετάEd

No, I do understand the problem.

tchrist

But is the reason you don’t want to run a newer version because you know for absolute certain that there is a downstream timebomb there, or because you just haven’t tested it that far?

MετάEd

I'm not concerned about bug compatibility, by the way. Yes, I understand that too. I wouldn't mind a bit if a problem in implementation was fixed. I want to write code to a language standard, not to a particular compiler. Always.

There's always a downstream timebomb. You don't have to know what it is to put a fence there.

tchrist

You will not be loved.

People have smokers running on all of CPAN to test a new release.

MετάEd

What, because the code dies at line 3 with an assert?

tchrist

4:48 AM

If something no longer make tests, then we know about it.

Yes, you will not be loved if for no reason, you have a maximum version that they can use.

Listen, I agree with you about the language version stuff. It just does not happen.

But blocking downstream versions sight unseen seems cruel.

Can you imagine if we made the perl build blow up on the compile if it encountered a newer version of gcc than we released it with?

Complete suicide.

Aren’t you talking about doing the same thing?

MετάEd

@tchrist No. You are talking about the compiler version. I'm talking about the language version. The Perl build should blow up if it's written in K&R and somebody upgrades the compiler to C89.

It's too easy when talking about Perl to confuse the two, but they are different.

tchrist

Not for us. Sigh.

MετάEd

So I am absolutely not talking about the same thing, you see?

tchrist

The world has become too complicated a place for me.

There is no difference between "language version" and "compiler version" for us.

MετάEd

I've written a piece of code to a particular language standard. And it's nice that the code itself can do a sanity check that you're feeding it to a compiler that expects code written to a different, not entirely compatible standard.

perldoc.perl.org/perl5160delta.html#Incompatible-Changes

I digress: I am happy that John Lawler saw the humor in my meta post.

At least someone has a sense of humor.

tchrist

5:00 AM

It is a mess.

The whole feature thing just didn’t work out.

Too much was changed. Too hard to keep track of.

MετάEd

Too tempting to add new features.

Like the // operator.

tchrist

I nearly lost it trying to document it all for the new version of the Camel.

MετάEd

Very clever.

tchrist

Yeah, clever and fucked up.

Not my idea.

But it is less bad than many others.

I basically lied about its return value for the Camel, because it was too weird to explain.

MετάEd

Perl needed someone like ... you LIED?

tchrist

5:02 AM

It doesn’t test defined(), but definedness. It is just Wrong.

I presented a simplified version of reality.

I didn’t explain the exceptions.

It’s a lie of omission.

Larry said it was ok to document how we thought it should work, even if it didn’t quite work right.

Because eventually they would make the code act like it was documented to act.

Will you see The Hobbit this weekend?

You cannot describe // in terms of defined(), and you should be able to.

It is not: a // b is like defined(a) ? a : b

MετάEd

Perl needed someone like Dijkstra, or Knuth, or even Stroustrup to be there to put on the brakes sometimes.

tchrist

But it wants you to think so.

MετάEd

The Hobbit is this weekend?

Damn. This is a heavy weekend.

tchrist

►

That was today’s 30-second TV spot.

And no, it isn’t Superman.

MετάEd

I'll bite. What's the difference between definedness and what defined() tests?

tchrist

5:11 AM

That what I asked.

What do you think &f // &g returns? :(

defined(&f) tells you whether the function is defined.

Which mean you cannot write // in terms of defined.

I understand why Holmes retired to beekeeping.

MετάEd

So that'll be yet another incompatible change to the language.

Eventually &f // &g will test whether function f is defined rather than testing whether it returns undef.

tchrist

Yeah.

macbook# perl -le 'sub f{warn "F called"; 22} sub g{warn "G called"; 33}; print defined(&h) ? &h : &g'
G called at -e line 1.
33
macbook# perl -le 'sub f{warn "F called"; 22} sub g{warn "G called"; 33}; print &h // &g'
Undefined subroutine &main::h called at -e line 1.
Exit 255

MετάEd

That's fucked up.

tchrist

macbook# perl -le 'sub f{warn "F called"; 22} sub g{warn "G called"; 33}; print &f // &g'
F called at -e line 1.
22

It kinda works.

Until it doesn’t.

MετάEd

I have no problem with how that works, actually. Even if it is different from defined()'s behavior.

Where I would object is changing it later.

tchrist

5:20 AM

Yes, but it is hard to explain.

a // b always evaluates a.

And if it evaluates to something that is defined, it returns it.

Otherwise, it returns b.

MετάEd

Isn't that what you'd want?

tchrist

Yes, but it is weird.

macbook# perl -le 'print length("" // "fred")'
0
macbook# perl -le 'print length(undef // "fred")'
4
macbook# perl -le 'print length("0" // "fred")'
1

MετάEd

Or would you want &a // &b to return ... what? A reference to a function?

tchrist

I very very very almost always just want to use ||.

MετάEd

An anonymous function?

tchrist

5:22 AM

Because I know how it works.

No.

It has to do what it does.

MετάEd

I like anon functions. But then I like LISP.

tchrist

There is plenty of anon function in perl.

MετάEd

I like the LISPishness of some Perl idioms very much.

tchrist

I prefer left to right evaluation.

MετάEd

Really a lot of what Perl does should just be implemented as LISP macros.

Shit. I just invented EMACS.

tchrist

5:25 AM

foo | bar | glarch

Not glarch(bar(foo())).

MετάEd

My grandmother was Polish. I don't have any problem with it.

tchrist

print reverse map sort map grep glob.

MετάEd

print reverse map sort map grep glob if.

tchrist

Much easier as a shell pipeline.

Sȱɳɨȼ Ʈħe ǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ

Ima off to sleep. Night.

tchrist

5:27 AM

Oh, hi.

Didn}’t know you were here.

MετάEd

g'nite hedge pig. See you later.

tchrist

BASIC-PLUS allowed multiple statement modifiers.

MετάEd

@tchrist Yes. RTL.

Perl is, as we've discussed, the bastard child of BASIC-PLUS and LISP.

tchrist

It has something of a LISP spirit.

In places.

MετάEd

And there's some SNOBOL in there also.

tchrist

5:36 AM

Sure.

MετάEd

What I like about SNOBOL is that every statement is a GOTO.

tchrist

At least it has no Prolog in it.

Until you hit the regex engine.

Mahnax

6:51 AM

@tchrist Are you around?

RegDwighт

11:01 AM

I was torn on the "time goes back" question, but went with a close vote after all.

I think I would have voted to leave open had Jim posted his comment as an answer, because that's what people actually say. Instead, rather than educating the OP on idiomatic English, we are trying to shoehorn the poor language into the impossible structure that nobody really uses.

user19161

11:20 AM

There was some drama on math today. A mod has left.

RegDwighт

Oh!

user19161

@SȱɳɨȼƮħeǶḝÐɠḝħȱɠ Now you have funny characters too!

RegDwighт

Juicy details please.

Links, pictures, videos.

user19161

@RegDwighт A lot of it is past history and deleted comments.

RegDwighт

No fair.

user19161

11:23 AM

Also, now that I have 25k, 10k and 2k on Eng, Math, TeX, I am officially retired from all three sites and hence SE itself. My job here is finished.

Matt Эллен

37K?

that's an odd amount to retire at

user19161

Your job remains however, as moderator, Reg.

RegDwighт

Nov 28 at 11:19, by RegDwighт

So if I delete a post of yours a day, you will create content worth another 25k. And another 25k. And another. And then I undelete them all and bam, you're at 100k. Muwahahaha.

user19161

@MattЭллен Well, 37 is the number of strokes in my Chinese name.

user19161

37 is also a prime number.

RegDwighт

11:24 AM

@JasperLoy strike it through, then it will be 38.

user19161

Note that 3+7=10, the number of fingers we have.

Matt Эллен

1+0 = 1, the number of noses we have

RegDwighт

Note that 1 + 0 is not the number of fingers we have.

user19161

Also, I thought I may have met a third Maria on SE, but I am not so sure now. I will be seeing how this one goes...

user19161

In any case, this Maria has nothing to do with ELU so you can all relax. Phew!

Matt Эллен

11:26 AM

hmmmm

/marge simpson voice

user19161

That's all for news tonight. Ouvert et haut !

RegDwighт

in Mathematics, 7 hours ago, by Gone

@JasperLoy The current mod team is completely disfunctional, as the recent events show. That one mod could think that he has the power to single-handedly delete roughly 150 posts without consulting anyone else speaks quite clearly for how bad it is.

Oh-oh.

Matt Эллен

oh dear.

RegDwighт

I have single-handedly deleted roughly 150 posts without consulting anyone else.

Matt Эллен

and people complain that we're mean!

RegDwighт

11:39 AM

This month alone.

Matt Эллен

hmmm

user19161

@RegDwighт Actually I am OK with that. I haven't seen what the 150 posts are though...

RegDwighт

The total number is in the thousands.

Matt Эллен

I guess we're more trusting of our mods?

dunno

RegDwighт

in Mathematics, 7 hours ago, by Gone

@MarianoSuárez-Alvarez Honestly I thought that we could still work this our. But when Q unilaterally locked those 2 questions without any discussion and then had the gall to suspend me so to enforce his unilateral decision, that was the last straw. If that's not a dictator in the making then I don't know what is.

Wait, mods can suspend mods?

Watch out, Joel Spolsky!

Matt Эллен

11:50 AM

it's odd that despite being about twice our number of users, Mathematics gets fewer visits per day

RegDwighт

Well, by adding two and two together, I guess their mods are way better at alienating users after their first visit. :P

Matt Эллен

lol

RegDwighт

They do have almost four times our number of questions, too.

And that's after Bill deleting OVER 9000 of them last second.

Matt Эллен

who put the venga bus in my head?

RegDwighт

Okay, so something does not add up.

Matt Эллен

11:56 AM

@RegDwighт maybe it's the 15% extra answered questions that keeps folks comeing back here

RegDwighт

They are the same age, have less than four times as many questions, but more than ten times as many questions per day.

Why is that by English math?

JSBձոգչ

@RegDwighт presumably they haven't always been at that many questions per day

RegDwighт

I know, it's the last two weeks' average.

But it's funneh.

Matt Эллен

~257K question at that rate for the entire life

RegDwighт

And holy crap, 292 questions a day. With one mod single-handedly deleting 10 a day. With nobody visiting. What's going on?

Two-odd people posting a thousand questions each?

I know @JasperLoy has been answering tons of very basic questions lately.

Matt Эллен

12:04 PM

@MattЭллен well it's certainly not your spelling.

RegDwighт

Perhaps we should start accepting Ramesh's questions now. We'll cut our traffic in half, but our question stats will skyrocket.

Matt Эллен

:D

RegDwighт

> Peter performance is better rather than Jim.

Matt Эллен

nah, I prefer being busy but quiet

RegDwighт

> Peter performance is better above Jim.

I am sorry, I can't be taking this seriously.

Matt Эллен

12:06 PM

I don't understand. What is a peter performance?

RegDwighт

He's got a meta question now, and I feel like I must first take twenty deep breaths and count till OVER 9000.

Xblast time!

Matt Эллен

Have fun!

RegDwighт

@MattЭллен a peter performance is performance who is better rather than Jim. Why you not read definition?

Seriously, dude.

pooof

Mitch

12:20 PM

@cornbreadninja You said 'turnstile hopper' then I said 'turnstile jumper' in the next comment, failing to have noticed that you had just said 'turnstile'.

tchrist

@JasperLoy No, we have 8 fingers and 2 thumbs. :)

Mitch

@cornbreadninja Really? I mean, it might but I don't see it as -that- useful.

@tchrist ooh ooh I know another one...litterers. and...and...people who dump or trespass (where there are signs that say 'No dumping' and 'No trespassing'. I sense a pattern.

tchrist

12:46 PM

Trivia: there've been over 9 thousand questions on Stack Overflow where the same user has up-voted and voted to close. — Shog9 Jun 7 at 0:10

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