English Language & Usage: Multi-Layered Discourse Room

12:56 PM

Hey, @F'x: I don't know if you can see deleted questions yet, but I deleted my answer to the "learnings" question and upvoted yours. See my comment if you can.

F'x

@Robusto yeah, I saw your comment

I've been a 10k for a few days :)

Robusto

Grats.

F'x

thanks

Robusto

In some respects I hate NOAD. It's not complete, and it makes me lazy.

F'x

regarding “learnings”, it sounds too much like marketing's sppech to me, but hey, it is attested

on the other hand, it's practical to have a nice dictionary to copy-paste from, just a single click on the dock

Robusto

12:59 PM

But getting out the big dictionary and thumbing through it is so non-digital. I blame teh interwebz.

F'x

I have it always open when I write in English, on "thesaurus" mode, just to remind me that I need to broaden my vocabulary

Robusto

I seldom use a thesaurus except when I can't think of a word that I know I know.

F'x

well, not living in an English country, not having much time to read and being the best English speaker around, means I'm not exposed to much new vocabulary

especially for “classical” terms

I learn much slang from Colbert and tv series

Robusto

TV is not a bad way to practice your ear training in a language.

F'x

I long for Doctor Who to return at the end of the month; I feel I'm getting weaker by the day on Welsh accents :)

Robusto

1:02 PM

It helped me a lot in Japanese before I went over there.

And if you record the program, you can play back the bits you didn't get over and over.

F'x

Or stop and ask someone (my wife and I typically miss different things)

by the way, I hope you're not offended by the choice of a Kanji as part of my gravatar

it's my present to myself for reaching 10k :)

Robusto

Why would I be offended?

F'x

well, these Oriental characters all look the same, don't they? :)

not offended, but maybe annoyed

Robusto

Not to me.

F'x

good then

anyway, it's a Mahjong green dragon

Robusto

1:08 PM

BTW, I don't recognize yours. Possibly it's Chinese hanzi, not kanji or it could be one of the ones I've forgotten.

Yeah, has a Chinese look to it.

F'x

Wikipedia says: 青發/青发, pinyin qīng fā, Japanese 發 romaji hatsu

U+767C

kJapaneseKun HANATSU TSUKAWASU ABAKU

kJapaneseOn HOTSU HATSU

don't know if that helps :)

the simplified variant is 发

Robusto

The Japanese use an altered form of it: 療

If you enter 發 in Kanjisearch it returns listings with 療 in its place.

Readings are hatsu, hotsu, tatsu, abaku, okoru, etc.

Hmm, but the only reading I see for that word in the compounds is ryou ... and it means cure ...

The only place I find that exact kanji in Japanese is in 發 (place name for Saikachi or Hatsu)

So I don't feel bad not recognizing it. There are plenty of kanji that are only seen in names of places and people.

F'x

now I know you don't play Mahjong :)

Robusto

I've played it on the computer before. Not recently.

F'x

like, solitaire? that's really not Mahjong!

Robusto

1:23 PM

Many of the ideograms are the same between Japanese and Chinese, like the ones for compass directions, etc. But Japanese kanji are definitely a small subset of Chinese hanzi.

Well, it has the same tiles, right?

BTW, I see that your gravatar is shaped like a tile as well. Presumably that's what you intended.

F'x

it has the same tiles

and yes, my gravatar should look like a tile

Cerberus

1:34 PM

Mahjong!

Solitaire version is entirely different... in the real game, you need to build the four walls!

And throw away early what the player after you is collecting.

Robusto

Meh. Too much trouble. Like bridge, but with lots of weird little pictures.

BTW, the Japanese use the character 竜 to mean "dragon".

F'x

Mahjong is fun

that's a fact

Robusto

辰 is also used to represent the 5th sign of the Chinese zodiac (Year of the Dragon, etc.).

You and @Cerberus ought to get together and play it then. Surely you're not more than a couple hours apart, ne?

Cerberus

1:54 PM

A couple of hours is a huge distance in cheeseland. The greatest distance I ever travel without leaving the country is a hundred miles, i.e. an hour and a half by car or train. But if we had an EU&L convention somewhere in a cool place, that might work!

Mahjong is very different from Bridge: it is, do kill if I insult anyone, mostly based on luck.

It is fun, but not nearly as satisfying as Bridge for me.

Robusto

Bridge is also at least partially based on luck, unless you're playing duplicate.

F'x

@Cerberus that's what makes it fun!

Cerberus

That is why duplicate is most fun. But yes, it also has an important luck factor; however, with Mahjong it is closer to 80% luck if you ask me.

F'x

it's not chess, you can talk, drink, maybe even read the newspaper while playing

Cerberus

You can do the same with Bridge!

But yes Mahjong is even more casual.

What do you call the pieces in English?

F'x

1:58 PM

and, mahjong is just like poker: lots of luck, but then, if you understand statistics, you play significantly better

@Cerberus I play in French

Cerberus

Right!

I knew that.

F'x

dragons, vents, fleurs, saisons

Cerberus

Yes we use the same words.

F'x

caractères, ronds, bambous

Cerberus

But what do you call one physical object you take from the wall?

A stone?

We call them stones.

F'x

1:59 PM

tuile

Robusto

We call them tiles.

Cerberus

Ah, I suppose that is the same word.

F'x

which is "tile"

Robusto

So the Tuileries in Paris, next to the Louvre, is some kind of tile place?

Tiled garden or something?

Cerberus

Dutch uses "stone" a lot in games: dice are dobbel-stenen [my hyphen].

F'x

2:01 PM

the only common game with "stones" in French is Go

Cerberus

I think the name tuileries comes from tile-making furnaces that used to be where the palace was.

I.e. the furnaces were at that location before the palace.

F'x

tile kilns

Cerberus

Right.

F'x

oh, Cerberus was faster

Cerberus

Hehe.

F'x

2:02 PM

I was looking up "kiln" :)

Cerberus

Anyway Mahjong is fun.

Robusto

Are you in Paris, F'x?

F'x

Also, we have "tuiles aux amandes":

@Robusto yes I am

Cerberus

Damn you! Now I am hungry. Again.

My brother just came back from CIUP.

Robusto

Mmmmmmm ... French confections.

Cerberus

2:05 PM

I think Paris is one of the best capitals in the world.

French cuisine being a significant factor in that.

Robusto

D'accord !

F'x

CIUP's a nice place, lots of interesting people

Robusto

If I lived there I would be fat.

F'x

I'm also partial to London, for three reasons: Indian cuisine, lots of parks, and Indian cuisine

Cerberus

Haha x2.

I have only driven through London's suburbs once.

Robusto

2:07 PM

Reasons I'm partial to London: plays, parks and pubs. The three P's.

F'x

@Robusto well, something tells me obesity is not the same in France as it is in the US…

Robusto

@Fx — I'm just saying the food is so good.

Cerberus

I heard Benneton has different measurements for the same official size in EU and US.

Though I suppose England will soon be able to use American sizes too!

And so will I if I don't start eating less...

Robusto

Obesity in America may be directly linked to the consumption of junk food.

F'x

my wife visited Amsterdam and loved it… don't know if it's as good when you live there all year

@Robusto it is in France too (child obesity, at least)

now, worst capital of the worlds!

Mexico City (you'll never get me to go there)

Robusto

2:10 PM

Mexico City is high on the list, indeed.

F'x

Bangkok (crowd, pollution, corruption)

Cerberus

Oh Amsterdam is great too. It depends on what you are after, of course... we supposedly have the highest museum density of all the world's capitals... but the a museum might be a nice 16th-century house with some furniture and nothing special.

F'x

though Thai cuisine is exquisite

Cerberus

Hey I know people who love Mexico City.

Robusto

Here's my candidate:

Mogadishu

Mogadishu (; , popularly Xamar; '; , literally "The Seat of the Shah") is the largest city in Somalia and the nation's capital. Located in the coastal Benadir region on the Indian Ocean, the city has served as an important port for centuries. Ruled in its medieval golden age by the Somali-Arab Muzaffar dynasty, and subsequently an assortment of other local Sultanates and polities, Mogadishu became the capital of Italian Somaliland during the colonial period. After the ousting of the Siad Barre regime and the ensuing civil war, various militias fought for control of the city, later t...

Cerberus

2:11 PM

Condesa (sp?) is supposed to be the place to be.

Haha.

I vote for Harare.

Robusto

Pyongyang

{{Infobox settlement | name = P'yŏngyang | native_name = 평양 | native_name_lang = ko | settlement_type = Directly Governed City | official_name = P'yŏngyang Directly Governed City | translit_lang1 = | translit_lang1_type1 = Chosŏn'gŭl | translit_lang1_info1 = 평양직할시 | translit_lang1_type2 = Hanja | translit_lang1_info2 = | translit_lang1_type3 = | translit_lang1_info3 = P'yŏngyang Chikhalsi | translit_lang1_type4 = | translit_lang1_info4 = Pyeongyang Jikhalsi | nickname = Ryŏkttongjŏk Rodong (력동적 로동)(Korean)" Dynamic Labo...

Also a strong contender.

Cerberus

True.

But at least there you are somewhat safe.

Not so in the beautiful city of Harare!

Robusto

North Korean is the only state that really tries to embody the term "Orwellian".

@Cerberus — Safe? Surely you jest. How are North Koreans safe?

Cerberus

@Rob: If you go about your own business, you have a fair chance of not being killed?

F'x

kid's up, gotta go

see you

Robusto

2:14 PM

@Cerberus — If your neighbor turns you in for saying anything against the government you get imprisoned and worked to death.

cya F'x

Cerberus

Well to be honest I don't know much about either city. Pyongyang is said to have law and order, Harare no such thing... but that might not be true.

Bye F'x!

Robusto

Meanwhile, you are slowly starving to death.

Cerberus

@Rob: The same thing will happen in Zimbabwe...

Robusto

"Multiple international human rights organizations, including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch, accuse North Korea of having one of the worst human rights records of any nation.[182] North Koreans have been referred to as "some of the world's most brutalized people" by Human Rights Watch, due to the severe restrictions placed on their political and economic freedoms.[183]"

Cerberus

There is always bad and worse!

Robusto

2:15 PM

From Wikipedia article on North Korea.

Cerberus

I have no objective criteria, just hearsay.

Robusto

Well, I don't see how it could get much worse.

Cerberus

Armed gangs of convicted criminals could be set free to terrorize people on the street?

But perhaps Harare is not so bad, it could be just reputation.