1d20

1d6

posted a new wave pertaining to info gathered after a week of scouting

@GPierce Good by me. Do you want me to fill in everyone's passive? or wait for folks?

@waxeagle that's fine for me

@GPierce filled them in

@waxeagle awesome. muahahahaha

@GPierce lol. didn't want us to get hung up waiting for stats that were easily accessed...

@waxeagle yeah, i just realized I could have done it. in fact, I was looking up yink and animaus as you were putting them in

@GPierce lol np :). Still getting the hang of all this myself

hmmm

the iplay4e group won't let me add characters, would you mind adding yink and animaus?

how was d*con?

@GPierce didn't make it :(.

gonna shoot for next year.

@waxeagle obviously i didn't either.

@waxeagle i really want to try and go to PAX next year, but I'm all but certain that won't happen!

I didn't realize how far Atlanta is from where I'm at

I was under the impression it was much closer!

@GPierce lol yeah, your in W Ark right? its quite the hike. Its at least 6 from memphis which is on the east border of ark...

maybe 8

@GPierce I added them to iplay4e. note that they probably aren't editable by anyone other than you and me...

@waxeagle alright, well that's a minor issue, i suppose

@waxeagle yeah, 6/7ish to memphis from where i'm at and then another 6/7ish to Atlanta

maybe even 8, i'm not entirely sure

@GPierce they can download the file, upload them to their profile and add them to the campaign...shouldn't be a big issue

I'll be interested to see what y'all do next

@GPierce I'm gonna hold off judgement 'til morning...

pretty sure that Darwin could kill him quite dead if he wanted to...but a diplomatic method may be lead to a greater reward...

@waxeagle Sorry, molly is going to hold him, and then he can surrender :) or atleast try

d20

d20

d20 d8 d8 d8

nice, a crit on a unneeded garrote! :)

@GMNoob what?

I'm going to knock him out

so we can tie him up

@BrianBallsunStanton Molly, Yink, same difference :P

No idea why I got the two names confused there

fair enough

Yink sometimes wants to be Molly. We all do.

@BrianBallsunStanton something tells me we won't have that chance/time

...

heh

evil gms asking us our passive pereptions...

eh

::shrug::

is good thing to konw

we can derive no information from the request for information

:) I just realized that I think the perception check was for the urine :)

heh

@GPierce is Evan dead or should darwin charge him? :)

@waxeagle specified as unconscious by both brian and avi

@GPierce ok, does he have HP left?

@waxeagle he's at -1

k I had a feeling he was good and knocked out....

but, since it's subdual i'll just say he stopped at 0 and is unconscious so you can tie him up if you like

i don't really feel like rolling death saving throws on a mob when you had stated you wanted to subdue him

seems reasonable to me...

@GPierce that would be silly :)

@waxeagle precisely

also impressed you didn't outright murder him. it would have been justified!

@GPierce :) ? I dunno...@GMNoob and @BrianBallsunStanton made that call :)

quick q are the guards showing up right away following this encounter or is it the full 5 min that a short rest grants? Or are you saying you just took a short rest with no time lapse?

@waxeagle they have watched the last round of combat or so, you have a chance to catch your breath and bam, there they are

@GPierce k.

updated wave witha bluff check for darwin

suggests yink might want to make the bluff :)...

Else...

@waxeagle darwin said it

haha

retroactively make yink say it then

whomeever is doing the talking has to do the check

@GPierce what color is yink?

@waxeagle white? i dunno, she's a changeling :D

but seriously, i have no clue. I'm color blind to an extent

@GPierce blue, she is blue...

@GPierce red-green?

@waxeagle yessir

@GPierce fun, it runs in my family, but for some reason I don't have it...thank goodness, it would make this job harder

@waxeagle you lucked out!

@GPierce indeed, I sort of expect it to find me at some point in my life :)

good morning @BrianBallsunStanton.

morning

but yeah, dropping them at cluesau's feet was basically part of my plan

So... it wouldn't be a bluff on my part.

@BrianBallsunStanton fair enough :). If Molly can get it through on no check I'd be happy :).

but yeah

let's see how the bluff works first.

did we kill or KO the leader?

@BrianBallsunStanton KO'd both

hence the +2 to the bluff.

cool

shall we roll it? or wait for @GMNoob to come back?

no-one's dead

I KOed both mooks as well

@BrianBallsunStanton perfecto.

though I'm not sure if darwin killed his

@BrianBallsunStanton hacked to pieces if I'm not mistaken...sorry

darn

@BrianBallsunStanton Molly talking makes more sense than a skeleton!

@GMNoob yeah I just realized you are still looking awful dead

or undead

molly doesn't have bluff though

@BrianBallsunStanton nor does Darwin...

are you bluffing?

yaay

I wouldn't be, but

GM has called for bluff

Fine

it's odd

:;shrug::

there goes my plan to fall into the pile of unconcious bodies and not be found

:P

d20

anyone know yink's bluff modifier?

@GMNoob 10

+2 for sitch bonus

21 should be good enough

level 1 that passes hard dc right?

no

the sitch bonus is higher

=4

yes, that passes hard DC

mmm, spin us as vigilantes?

"we couldn't see a wrong like this happening"

(without wanting a cut)

heh

bleh

okay, back in a while, breakfasttime

is it possible to leave a minion alive? I thought they pop like balloons

@GMNoob well he only did 3 dmg to them so its technically overkill, but only by 1ish hp

but its non-lethal :)

300%

:)

ok, so black and blue and dieing all over... but merely a flesh wound

er, RAW, it's absolutely possible.

cause they don't take negative damage

however this group rules it... I dunno

@BrianBallsunStanton very true, you can always choose whether you knock unconcious or whatever..

bleh, really need to get out of chair

@BrianBallsunStanton lol...

stand up, and stop being distracted by my jokes

firey balls of death consume you in acid, but its all good you are still alive.

@waxeagle less than 5 minutes, but i'm allowing you the benefits of teh short rest even though they've been observing.

ping re my query on wave

cause this may be a problem

@BrianBallsunStanton 4e doesn't really have rules to deal with sub-dual like previous editions. I'm allowing it on full-fledged mobs as they have actual HP, unlike minions who have 1. Monster rules for hitting 0 or dropping below 0 explicitly state for this edition not to bother with death saves, etc and just take them off the board. Based on these things, I feel like I'm being pretty generous rules-wise.

err

um

@GPierce you should look at teh Dragon Mag article about what to do with the dead :)...

that's kinda false.

So, it's not really "house-ruling" as you've put it. I'm "house-ruling" that the two full-fledged mobs are still alive albeit subdued.

okay, so is it permissable for me to paste the unconsciousness rules?

@BrianBallsunStanton how do you figure? I see no rules in the compendium for subdual

We can play that way, which is fine with me. But there is a section on non-lethal kills

subdual was my shorthand. They got rid of the term

there is no "non-lethal" damage

there is only lethal damage and then knock-out

which, frankly, makes me very happy

from a tracking numbers perspective.

I'm just trying to make sure you are aware of the rules before you house-rule.

When you make your call, then we'll deal with it, I'm not trying to argue here.

@GMNoob fair enough. also explains why i didn't see it

I just like the term :(

Duel to the pain!

@BrianBallsunStanton Read the section under unconscious and again, that sounds fine for full-fledged baddies. Minions are a different creature simply by merit of having 1 hp. 1 hit and they are dead. I really can't justify in my mind how they would be just "unconscious" when they are typically weak (hp-wise) creatures. Under the glossary definition for minion is specifically states that: "A minion is destroyed when it takes any damage."

Again, I feel like I'm being generous here with a +2 situational bonus period.

oh, I don't care about the situational bonus

make it+0 . I care that molly has killed 2 people.

that was very very much not my intent.

@BrianBallsunStanton I got ya

I dunno, I'm having a hard time getting into the mindset of this game that you all seem to share.

@BrianBallsunStanton how so?

Different perspectives on the rules, different protocols, different player intents

@BrianBallsunStanton I do agree that is a grey area rule with minion/unconscious stuff. I could see it be done either way.

nono

not just this

@BrianBallsunStanton Do tell, we can't all improve or be better unless we all hear criticism. You're an academic, you know how good criticism is/can be!

@GPierce yes.

In this regard, I'm not sure if it's bad as if it's an antithetical style.

bleh

I shouldn't pull out untli after the end of this mission, but... I'm feeling very meh right now.

OTOH, walking out in the middle of what amounts to a game is very poor taste.

I dunno

(And no, this is not in regards to any one issue, specifically)

@BrianBallsunStanton well, if you are not having fun, then do what you need to do. no hard feelings. at the end of the day it is a game

games are supposed to be fun, after all

I'm looking it up now, but I think there is a contradiction in the rules

heh.

Anyways, it would be most rude for me to bow out in the middle, so...

@BrianBallsunStanton well again, i'd love to hear your specific issues. you're not going to hurt my feelings!

We'll just gloss over the fate of the minions.

The ad-hoc -4000 penalty and the various strike through comments aren't helping.

can someone with compendium access, look up zombie minions

The biggest thing is that it feels like I want a much more planned game in terms of the theft than the other players.

@BrianBallsunStanton it was a joke. you never actually suffered the -4000 penalty. i thought you were joking back!

@GPierce er, no?

you applied a penalty?

so I indicated it?

@BrianBallsunStanton i understand that. you're looking for more of an oceans 11 everything has to be perfect type of thing

@BrianBallsunStanton no... no i didn't

again, i was just joking

fair enough

@GPierce Leverage :) But yeah

where if we prep right, and think right, we win.

@GMNoob yes?

what am I looking for.

@BrianBallsunStanton it was on the stealth checks, and if you go and check, i edited it out. again, it was a joke. you did make the check!

I vaguely remember a rule that zombies rise back up if not sufficiently killed

@BrianBallsunStanton i think that's fair

I realize that :)

even as minions

@GMNoob er... no, other way around

they used to pop on crits

zed are bloody worthless in 4e

oooh, hey

ok, then it wasn't zombies.. some other undead

that's... new

@BrianBallsunStanton i'm just not exactly sure that the best way to do a game like that is over wave, sadly. i think a game like that would be fun in person where you have actual character tension and drama, something that isn't really facilitated well via wave.

Thats it!

@BrianBallsunStanton whoa, when did that change

@GPierce yes. I dunno.

that's the effect I was looking for

that's monster vault

it's not "new"

its from essentials

thought it was a cool feature

@GMNoob it.. it is. they did used to just "pop"

essentials is old hat now :)

is what I was thinking of.

does that exist on the zombie minion?

@GMNoob lol, suuuuure...

by inference

@GMNoob it's not listed on their powers, but is for other zombies... so...

since the "I ain't dead" doesn't trigger on crit

I think it'd be a fun house rule, but as it's not RAW, i guess it is up to the DM

so given that we seem to be 3, now....

oh, have you read B&E, yet?

Nope found it!

Zombie Shambler

cause I think that style of stealth could work.

its a minion, and it pops back up

this means there is a contradiction in the rules

@GMNoob ?

no, specific beats general, remember?

Minion rules says that a creature is destroyed

@GMNoob yep, and specific rules overrule that

their hp seemingly, never goes to 0

but the zomibie doesn't say if destroyed, it says if hp goes to 0

@GMNoob 4e is a game of exceptions, if there is an exception its followed

you seem to be missing the contradiction :)

But yeah, given that we're down to 3 and that wave doesn't support good prep, I recommend we wave our hands vigourously at prep and just try a B&E style sneak.

@BrianBallsunStanton I'm good with this.

I may pick up the B&E rules, what are they like $12 or something?

If minions go to 0 hp, then they can be unconcious

sounds right

@BrianBallsunStanton Since you are invested in Molly's abhorance of killing, I'm willing to say that the minions are unconscious, but don't provide a bonus. I feel like that is a fair compromise.

if they never reach 0 hp, then the zombie skill is never activated

@GPierce that's just fine. Like I said, it's an RP objection rather than a mechanics suggestion

@BrianBallsunStanton Does that work for the RP-aspect for you?

not being the player rolling the check, I'd be fine with a +0 :) But if molly can use diplomacy to assert that they were indeed trying to deal with these thugs, that'd be shiny as well

depending on how we're using diplomacy in this game

but yes, KO without bonus is fine :)

this contradiction is bugging me :(

I chose bluff simply by the merit that it wasn't stated until after the guards arrived that you wanted to hand them into clueso

@GMNoob oh dude, there are a ton of them in 4e. but again, specific overrules general

@GPierce no that's fine :) I wasn't expecting guards :)

what other ones are there? This isn't a case of specific overrides general

I'm fine with you make a Diplo roll though to soften them up before the bluff, make them more receptive. I'll treat it like a minor skill challenge and on a success it add's to Yink's bluff

mmm, aid another, perhaps? :)

@GMNoob Yes it is because the Zombie Shambler's power specifically overrides the Minion glossary definition

what are those bloody rules

Yink is bluffing anyways cause she isn't really a skeleton :)

DC 10 + half level, I think?

@BrianBallsunStanton thought it was a flat 10 DC..but I could be misremembering, at this point its 10 regardless

@GPierce Not really... the zombie shambler power just never comes into affect... ever :)

@BrianBallsunStanton that's it

@waxeagle they've fiddled it

its like if a fighter was given a power "when you cast magic missle, shift 2"

@BrianBallsunStanton compendium fiddled with it a bit

@BrianBallsunStanton that makes sense, it was way to easy at a flat 10. always possible after L20...

that doesn't mean that the fighter suddenly gains the magic missle power

but yeah, mollys intent was to play silly buggers with the inspector with these thugs

@GMNoob yes, that would be a specific overriding a general rule of not shifting when it's not your turn. in fact, that's how interupts and reactions work

its like if a fighter was given a power "when you cast magic missle, shift 2"

Fighters don't have magic missle!

@waxeagle lol

@GMNoob Multiclass, Hybrid. both override general with specific rules

bleh

You are missing my point

I don't knowhow to phrase this as an aid another

Ok, You shift 2 when you cast the asdflkajds;l power

modifes the power, yes.

@BrianBallsunStanton Smile and wink giving credence to my story

:( I'll write out the power exactly... "Trigger: The zombie is reduced to 0 hit points..." This trigger. NEVER fires on a Shambler

@GMNoob That's not how the game works... General rule: Fighters don't have magic missile. We can both agree on that. Specific rule: Fighter has a power that states when he casts magic missile he shifts, meaning specifically he has magic missile

1d20

@DiceService nice

@DiceService I think you made it

and then some!

He doesn't have magic missle... but if he somehow gets the power, then he'll shift 2

@GMNoob by the wording of your made up power which makes no sense, yes

but he doesn't gain the magic missle power by having this seemingly worthless shift 2 ability

Thats my point with the Zombie Shambler

@GMNoob i disagree...

@GMNoob But then again, that's your call when you pull out zombies on your players. If you do, make sure they go for the brains

we have two general rules. 1. When a mob hits 0 hp we can say he is unconcious. 2. When a minion receives damage he is destroyed, and never reaches 0 hp. 3. If the zombie reaches 0 hp, he gets 1 life.

@GMNoob you act like they completely bypass the 0hp state. they don't magically jump over it

sorry, 2 general and 1 specific

It does hit it, and then goes past it, meaning it would still get it's trigger

It fulfills the requirement of the trigger just fine

meh, no "destroy" in the index

if they do reach the 0 hp state, then they can be 'unconcious' and not get destroyed

but 'destroy' to me sounds like they can't be saved

so even if you had a 1d10-20 damage roll, if you hit them, they die

even though they are taking 'negative' damage

or if they take 0 damage

Ok, that might be pushing it

since it specifically says 'takes damage'

but hopefully you get what I'm rambling about

1d4

lame

1d8

awesome

also good to know

1d8

@DiceService Molly it is

...

faaaantastic

oh wow

that was actually good!

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you :)

@BrianBallsunStanton sexy

i figured that was the fairest way to do it

Shiny :)

@GPierce thats solid to me.

+1 rapier for the striker, FTW

so people with the weakest stealth get the foodpads

@BrianBallsunStanton agreed

I've got 10

I'm certain someone didn't have thieves tools that could use them, so y'all have that now, too

so probably not me

I'm not thievery trained, so it's all good

@GPierce I think yink needs them

@waxeagle pretty sure that was it

@BrianBallsunStanton looks like animaus and then youv'e got an extra set for whomever else

@BrianBallsunStanton actually she does, Darwin and Yink are both 11 stealth...

wow

okay

we can reassign them to the Pally (or just buy him some) when we join back up

sweetness, and to think I was about to go to bed

+1 item bonus?

mmmm

ugh

remind me that I have that bonus, CB is being annoying

anyhoo.

@BrianBallsunStanton k.

item bonus for what?

@GMNoob to move quietly, from the foot pads

ah!

CB doesn't apply it. I have no idea why

@GPierce its situational

should I start rolling?

to get a flat +1 to stealth you have to have a magic item. You can get it in most situations with camo clothes + foot pads