the k tree

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Razetime

05:19

@ngn looks like an XML dump would preserve all the info in the wiki as xml

doesn't contain images however

ngn

@Razetime isn't that something that requires access to the server?

Razetime

lemme checkt he miraheze docs

there's a dataDump page for admins of the wiki

so all images and xml can be downloaded

ngn

ooh, great :)

Razetime

I should add you as admin

ok, you should have access to the wikidump page as well now

k.miraheze.org/wiki/Special:DataDump

ngn

@Razetime thanks! looks like it worked

@Razetime btw, where did you get the names of the primitives from?

Razetime

05:31

I wrote placeholder names for time being

Need to remove the k2-k4 columns and update from the oK manual

ngn

yeah, i think we can get away with a single column for k3-k6

k9 is the only black sheep

Razetime

btw are there any other K chatrooms

like, an irc

ngn

yes, there's an irc channel but i haven't visited it for a long time. it wasn't very active anyway.

Razetime

So k tree is the main active one

@ngn alright what's the channel name

is it on libera

ngn

i don't know

Razetime

05:35

oh well

this is the closest thing I could find

ngn

@Razetime there's also a group of people who followed kelas into some private chat, but i don't know further details

Razetime

idk who kelas is

ngn

@Razetime a prominent k developer and popularizer. he was very active in this chat for a while.

Razetime

hm. I wanna see their website

ah they're part of kparc

ngn

kparc.io, not kparc.com :)

Razetime

05:45

ok their github is a dead end

kparc.slack.com needs a kparc.io account

pain

imagine settling on one service

ngn

@Razetime there's also matrix&discord (as you know), but not very active

@Razetime and i assume you know about shakti's google group

Razetime

yep

recently joined

Razetime

06:09

k.miraheze.org/wiki/Online_Communities

mmkay

if there's any other additions do tell

ngn

06:23

@Razetime do you know how to make infoboxes like in wikipedia?

Razetime

will need to read up on that

what is it required for

ngn

@Razetime not really required, just "wouldn't it be nice"

Razetime

some pages definitely need one

ngn

i was thinking of adding an infobox for each primitive

Razetime

yes, like primitives, implementers, so on

ngn

06:26

something like a very short summary in a super enlarged font, e.g. "!I" for "odometer", and below it links to the documentations of the implemenations that support it

Razetime

looks like it needs an import

ngn

i made a template: {{primitive}} - it's at the top of every page describing a primitive

but i don't know how to make it look good like an infobox

currently it only adds a [[Category:primitives]]

Razetime

meta.miraheze.org/wiki/User:Void/Infoboxes is what i found

ktye

06:39

what's the chance for an idioms page? e.g. like: code.jsoftware.com/wiki/JPhrases. that could be valuable but hard to do. did anyone start or come across sth similar for k?

Razetime

I can definitely make a searchable APLcart - like thing

ngn

06:55

@ktye i don't think anyone would stop you if you want to make such a page :)

Bubbler

A major problem would be version/implementation differences

chrispsn

@ktye web.archive.org/web/20160130044318/http://code.kx.com:80/svn/…

I see two types of idiom - one noting which cases are picked up by the implementation, and one for common tasks

My gut is the latter category is much less common in k than in APL

But if it were 'k by example' it's a different story

ktye

@chrispsn that's a nice collection!

chrispsn

There is also this but it might be the same web.archive.org/web/20060306173257/http://kx.com/technical/…

Bubbler

looks like the same, just without q equivalents

Razetime

07:07

@Bubbler for now we'll keep k6 and k9

chrispsn

A lot of the idioms are out of date in recent versions too

Bubbler

k9 is a moving target, so I guess we can stick to k6 for now

chrispsn

@Razetime dead end is over-stating it - there are a couple of semi-active docs projects there

KCC is worth a read for sure

Razetime

@chrispsn dead end in terms of online communities to discuss K with

sure, they have some nice curated repositories

ngn

@Bubbler i think we need different boxes (maybe of different colours?) to indicate which dialect an example is meant for

Bubbler

07:17

@ngn Yeah, that can work too. APL Wiki has a macro that adds a small text saying e.g. "Works in: Dyalog APL"

and both wikis are MediaWiki, so it should be possible to use the same thing

ngn

@Bubbler that's nice

Razetime

07:42

currently trying to find a template from en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Infobox_templates

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox this is the required docs

2 hours later…

Bubbler

10:14

So the "Works in" macro thing is just a template with custom CSS

a.external[href^="https://tryapl.org/?a="],a.external[href^="https://tio.run/##"],a.external[href^="https://repl.it/repls/"],a.external[href^="https://n9n.gitlab.io/apl/web/"][href*="#code="],.worksin {
    position: relative;
    float: right;
    right: 1ex;
    font-size: smaller;
    opacity: 0.6;
    margin-top: 1em
}

a.external[href^="https://tryapl.org/?a="]:hover,a.external[href^="https://tio.run/##"]:hover,a.external[href^="https://repl.it/repls/"]:hover,a.external[href^="https://n9n.gitlab.io/apl/web/"][href*="#code="]:hover,.worksin:hover {

The CSS can also detect and convert TIO-like links above codeboxes into something shown here

chrispsn

10:28

mini-challenge: do 'max scan x partition y' without a raze. the idiom list used:

x:1 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 1
y:3 4 8 2 5 6 9 4 5 4
,/|\'(&x)_ y

result: 3 4 8 8 8 6 9 9 5 4

chrispsn

10:51

(my agenda: how could we use k's existing tools to achieve an 'under'-like effect?)

Razetime

there's a dialect with an inverse adverb right

chrispsn

in k?

Razetime

yes

chrispsn

i know some k dialects have a solver built into ?, but that's just numbers

1 hour later…

chrispsn

12:16

@ngn is deep where implemented as a k-string? codeberg.org/ngn/k/src/branch/master/v.c#L14

1 hour later…

coltim

13:18

@chrispsn I think this does the trick

1 hour later…

JohnE

14:38

it's probably worth mentioning reddit.com/r/apljk in the "online communities" section of the wiki

ngn

@chrispsn yes. you mentioned it should work on dicts too - do you have ideas for prototyping that in the k-string?

JohnE

also fwiw K2's function inverse uses the secant method to approximate the inverse to a numeric monad. I removed this from oK a long time ago, since it was not part of k5/k6, but the implementation is here: github.com/JohnEarnest/ok/commit/…

it's an interesting primitive, but far less useful and general than J's symbolic understanding of inverses

ngn

k and j have opposing views about where the boundary between "language" and "library" should be :)

3 hours later…

ngn

18:12

any corrections or ideas for improving this monstrosity? k.miraheze.org/wiki/Type

@JohnE ^ is the oK column correct?

@ktye ^^ do you want to add any of your languages?

3 hours later…

JohnE

21:10

looks right, I think

ngn

any idea if kona's interpretation of @x ("is atom?") comes from k3?

JohnE

I believe that's the case in both k3 and k2

as documented in the k2 reference manual

@Razetime are you going to do a page for literal/noun forms? The notation for e.g. dictionaries has shuffled around quite a bit across dialects

the oK manual has a pretty good overview of the literal forms of k6

with the exception of date/time since I never supported them

2 hours later…

Bubbler

23:37

@Razetime @ngn Can you add this to Common.css (and maybe replace the a.external ones with oK and ngn/k permalinks)?

ngn

@Bubbler i would, but i've no idea what Common.css is, so i'd better leave that to razetime

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