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19:55
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Q: Should Christians get involved in Christmas as it is of Pagan origin?

ethosThe following is an overview of the pagan worship indulged in by all the celebrants during the winter festival today called Christmas; extracted form the book: 'The Romans and Their Gods' by R.M. Ogilvie pp. 98-99:- "The [ancient Roman religious] year ended, as the modern year ends, with...

church-history biblical-theology
Nathaniel
Nathaniel
Are you looking for arguments one way or the other, or for the view of a particular tradition? We can't answer "should Christians do X" unless you tell us whose opinion you want.
Martin Rosenau
Martin Rosenau
Your premise is wrong: Early Christians have chosen the day of Saturnalia (or whatever festival) to celebrate Christmas because it was a public holiday in Rome so they could celebrate without being noticed (especially in times of persecution). Both festivals have nothing to do with each other with exception of the date when they are celebrated. If I understand the rest of the quotes correctly, these refer to the festival of Saturnalia (or whatever festival was celebrated at those days), not to Christmas!
4castle
4castle
@MartinRosenau What are the sources for your claims? According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, early Christians didn’t celebrate birthdays, let alone Christmas.
user378412
@MartinRosenan Stories Of Special Days And Customs. (A Ladybird Book [© 1972]) p.50 "Long ago, the twenty-fifth of December was the shortest day of the year and on this day the sun was worshiped. Christians knew that God had made the sun, and so turned the old pagan festival into a day of worship to the 'Son of God."
user378412
Ancient Culture & Society. The Romans & Their Gods. by R. M. Ogilvie p.96 "The year ended, as the modern year ends, with a great holiday of peace and good will. Indeed the customs of Christians are directly derived from the ancient festival of Saturnalia, originally confined to 17 December but later extended over several days."
Martin Rosenau
Martin Rosenau
19:55
@4castle This was the explanation I was told in a museum in Rome. The German Wikipedia at least says that this is one of the theses still being discussed. However this is not the point. The point is that one religious Roman festival, (probably) one Mitras cult festival and Christmas were celebrated on the same day but the three festivals had nothing to do with each other. By celebrating one of the three festivals you don't automatically celebrate the other two festivals.
@4castle It is true that early Christians did not celebrate birthdays and they did not celebrate a lot of Christian festivals we know today. But does this mean that it is not allowed to do so? Jesus depicts celebrating whenever there is some occasion as something which is absolutely normal (examples: Lk 15,9; Lk 15,23). So why not celebrating when there definitely is an occasion? At least I don't know any quote from the Bible which forbids this.
@ethos I don't get your point: Is your problem that there is another festival on the same day? I'm sure you'll find 366 murderers that are born at another date. This means every day of the year is the birthday of a murderer! Using your argumentation celebrating would not be allowed at all because if you are celebrating (no matter what!) this would automatically mean that you are celebrating on the birthday of a murderer. With exception of the date however Christmas has nothing to do with the other festivals: You don't worship the sun on Christmas.
4castle
4castle
@MartinRosenau This isn't the place to discuss this. (You can message me in chat if you want to continue discussing. One scripture that comes to mind is 1 Corinthians 6:15-17
@MartinRosenau Oops, I meant 2 Corinthians
Martin Rosenau
Martin Rosenau
@4castle Now I read 2 Cor. 15-17 in different translations - both our one and the JW one. I don't find any word that forbids celebrating.
@4castle However this is not the point. The main point is that "ethos" argues that some Christian festivals are "pagan". The question is now: What does "pagan" mean? That you worship other gods? In this case "ethos" is definitely wrong. Or that something (e.g. celebrating) was done in another religion before Christians started to do this? In this case praying is "pagan" so it should not be allowed to pray any more (according to ethos' logic)...
4castle
4castle
@MartinRosenau I invite you (and ethos and anyone else) to join me in chat
user378412
The scriptures have to over riding say on what kind of festival christians should get involved in, such texts as:-
user378412
(John 17:16) . . .They are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.
Jesus asked Jehovah to help his follows not to get involved with that world they lived why?
user378412
20:07
Paul understood what Jesus meant and warned the christian about all other form of woeship and were they came from:-
user378412
(1 Corinthians 10:20-22) . . .No; but I say that what the nations sacrifice, they sacrifice to demons and not to God; and I do not want you to become sharers with the demons. 21 You cannot be drinking the cup of Jehovah and the cup of demons; you cannot be partaking of “the table of Jehovah” and the table of demons. 22 Or ‘are we inciting Jehovah to jealousy’? We are not stronger than he is, are we?
user378412
Jesus said that there only two kind of worship (rodas):- (Matthew 7:13, 14) . . .“Go in through the narrow gate, because broad is the gate and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are finding it.
thus as the world in under the control of Satan - (1 John 5:19) . . .but the whole world is lying in the power of the wicked one. . .
thus any worship other than what detailed by Jesus is of the World and must be rejected by his followers as the mixing of the world relig…
user378412
20:30
What festival(s) did Jesus say his followers should remember? Were is Christmas celebrated in The Book of Acts? On what Day was Jesus born? As a Jew did Jesus celebrate his Birthday?
user378412
20:50
@MartinRosenau The above question are food for thought. The point is What does The Bible point out what is right and wrong worship as God sets the rules not men!!

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